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10/20/12 1:58:41 PM#21
Originally posted by halflife25Originally posted by smh_alot ? Chill your nipples. I'm not raining down on WoW's parade or that of WoW fans, just adding some perspective. Nowhere did I say that it wasn't an achievement what WoW has accomplished, or that 2.7 mln is trivial. Only the gap with other main contenders has grown a lot smaller when you look at launch sales figures, as the 2 mln of SWTOR and GW2 show (which isn't trivial either). And 2.7 mln sales for a 9-10 mln playerbase of which 1 mln is purely returnees (the jump from 9.1 mln subs to 10 mln subs at MoP launch), well, you have to admit that's kinda meagre: an expansion comes out, you have a lot of people that had left resubbing, and then you still have only 2.7 mln of your whole playerbase buying the game. Unless China WoW players are 7 mln, that's fairly low.
And I don't see anything bad with that. WoW is still doing great, only the difference with other MMO's isn't as massive as it was anymore, which can only be good for everyone. You see it alrdy, with Blizzard ramping up their development schedule where they'd been lazy-assing beforehand. More competition and diversity is always better. |
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10/20/12 1:59:05 PM#22
Originally posted by Istavaan Note quite. I'm pretty sure the entire Asian market doesn't have to pay for expansions, which is one reason absolute sales isn't as important as subscription and game time numbers. Also, I know quite a few people who are just getting back into the game. Since you don't actually need the expansion to play the Pandaren race (only to play a monk and 86-90 content), every one of them has decided not to purchase the expansion until they actually need to, assuming they even stick with the game long enough to need to. Anyway, I have no clue what the current sub numbers are or anything. Just wanted to say that it's not quite as simple as assuming 2.7 million sales must mean the 10+ million subs number is way off the mark.
And before anyone calls me a fanboi or whatever, I personally don't enjoy the game anymore, and adding kung fu panda and pokemon to the mix didn't help. I still hold two subs up, because my 8 year old daughter likes to play it with me, but that's it. And it should probably give people a good idea of what Blizzards target audience is... |
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10/20/12 1:59:15 PM#23
I have to ask. What do you expect? every expansion in wow to sell more then the last and it to forever continue to increase? Lets find and name any other 8 year old MMO that has managed to sell over 2 million copies of its expansion on day one? Heck lets go as far as to say lets find a younger MMO that has sold over 2 million copies of its expansion on day one. |
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10/20/12 2:02:51 PM#24
Originally posted by smh_alot My nipples qre quite chilled just took them out of the freezer. I am talkign about how you so nicely added 'not impressed' as if 8 year old game selling 2+ million in expansions is just an every day thing. And no MOP isn't even released in china yet. Maintaining that huge amoutn of player base is an achievement in itself even though i havent played WOW in 4 years. Give credit where credit is due whether you are impressed or not. |
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10/20/12 2:05:46 PM#25
Originally posted by asmkm22 so stop saying it has 10 million subs then when it doesn't. it has 10 million unique accounts including mine that has been frozen since 2008. |
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10/20/12 2:08:28 PM#26
Originally posted by Istavaan Thats not true, cause at one point it had 12million subs...How does it have less now than it did before if its just unique accounts? lol Just one of the many conspiracies, I like the one that its actually 12 million characters not accounts! lol |
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10/20/12 2:10:24 PM#27
Originally posted by Fendel84M Can you prove that it is not true? |
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10/20/12 2:10:46 PM#28
@asmkm22: I agree, it isn't that simple. WoW expansion sales and subs are handled differently in China. However, since Blizzard only announces the total number of subs since 2008, it's hard to tell how many are Chinese subs and how many non-Chinese subs.
Originally posted by Thomas2006 I think that there's no one denying the huge achievement that WoW has accomplished over the years. However, looking at the latest expansion, it becomes kinda obvious that WoW is slowly settling down. Which is natural and not even that bad at all imo. You can see the signs in how Blizzard went from '1st day sales' announcements to '1st week sales' announcement for the first time with an expansion. So yes, Wow is still doing great with its numbers, but no, compared with itself it's doing less well than all other expansions. Doesn't mean WoW is dying or fading away, just that it's coming down from its peak in a slow decline. |
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10/20/12 2:16:28 PM#29
Originally posted by Istavaan Their own definitions of what a sub is, states it's true, as well as the quarterly revenues streams that Activision Blizzard periodically announces. They do have about 10 million subs, but about 5-6 million (or maybe more now, no idea) are Chinese subs, for which the defintion of a sub is 'having played at least 1 hr WoW in a month', and 1 million subs included are the annual pass people who got a free D3 if they went for that promotion. Hope this sheds some light on the matter. |
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10/20/12 2:24:20 PM#30
Originally posted by halflife25 I think I stated very clearly what I wasn't impressed about. The 2.7 million for a 10 mln sub game. Even if the non-Chinese player base is nothing more than 3-4 million, then it still isn't impressive with 0.9 million of that 2.7 being returnees. Because it means that only 1.8 of the actual currently active playerbase had purchased the xpac. I also don't find it impressive that the xpac is doing less well than all other former xpacs. I find it understandable, but I still don't find it impressive. Being on top for 8 years with 10 million subs and more, sure, that's impressive. How this xpac is doing, nah, not that impressive at all imo. Shrug. That's how I see it. |
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10/20/12 2:26:37 PM#31
Originally posted by Istavaan if you are still paying a subscription then it is counted.. if your not paying a sub then it isnt.. its kind of funny really how the WoW haters get so desperate to prove the game is dying when.. actually its doing pretty well despite its age, the fact thats its doing better than a more 'recent' game is probably the reason behind a great deal of the more 'vociferous' hate.. sorry to rain on your parade guys but.. hey.. WoW is still there and its still kicking MMO butt.. deal with it |
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10/20/12 2:28:44 PM#32
Are expansions of any other MMO which is 8+ years old selling 2.7m+ copies? I think it is fewer copies sold than Blizz expected. Not that I saw their budget though. The population of WoW will be slowly declining which is given by the lifecycle stage it happens to be in. I think we will experience decline in sales numbers with any other expansion to come. This game does not need to prove anything anymore. Its success is undisputable. Playing: Nothing atm My game concept thread: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/369707 (any feedback appreciated) |
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10/20/12 2:28:53 PM#33
Originally posted by smh_alot How much BC, CATA, WOTLK sold? didn't WOW had around 11 + million player base back then? if we are going to look at the ratio of every expac sold in comaprison to total player base. So i guess WOW has been a continuous disappointment for years now. |
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10/20/12 2:34:07 PM#34
Originally posted by Phry The game is doing good, no doubt. But not as good as they claim. Chinese "sub-numbers" are misleading as Chinese players pay by the hour, and mainly on internet cafe accounts. So even though a Chinese player may only buy one hour of time and then never play again, he's counted as a "sub" for that whole month that he paid for that one little hour in. With billions of Chinese to go through, as well as plenty of gold farmers creating new hack/scam/spam accounts daily, it'll be a while before they run out of "unique subs in the millions". EA CEO John Riccitiello's on future microtransactions: "When you are six hours into playing Battlefield and you run out of ammo in your clip, and we ask you for a dollar to reload, you're really not very price sensitive at that point in time...We're not gouging, but we're charging." |
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10/20/12 2:43:54 PM#35
Originally posted by Phry Well, this is only partially true. A different system is being used for its players in China, bc they don't work with subs like usual. When someone in China has played 1 (paid) hour in a month, then for that month that person is counted as a sub. There are various estimations around that put the number of 'China subs' at 5-6 mln, those estimations are 1-2 years old though. If I had to guess, I'd think that the number of non-Chinese subs is like 4 mln or so.
Originally posted by halflife25 IIRC (would have to look it up to be 100% sure), but BC had 2.4 mln 1st day sales, WotLK 2.8 mln and CATA 3.4 mln 1st day sales. This is the 1st time that Blizzard changed that and only announced '1st week sales' instead of 1st day sales, and they're 2.7 million. Don't put words in my mouth, I never said those other xpac sales were unimpressive, I said THIS xpac I wasn't impressed about regarding its figures. Seems you have a problem with people not sharing your view of admiration of this xpac, well, sorry, that's my opinion, being unimpressed. Agree to disagree with you, I guess. I can't really say more about it that I haven't said already, and I'm not in the mood to keep on arguing with people who have trouble dealing with opinions of being unimpressed, so I'm going to wish you the best with WoW, and keep it at that. |
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10/20/12 2:57:54 PM#36
When you think about all the games that should have been major competition, such as Rift, FFXIV, SWTOR, TERA, The Secret World, Aion: F2P, and Guild Wars 2, it's surprising that 2.7 million copies were still sold in the first week, not including China sales. That's pretty good, especially when you think about how many people did not like the setting at all, Guild Wars 2 having just been released, and a lot of people reconsidering the value of their subscription money. Anyway, competition is good. There is almost always something on the horizon to look forward to now. I remember when you really only had FFXI, WoW, and EQ2 to choose from. Now, there's a bunch of subscriptions and F2Ps to choose from. |
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10/20/12 2:59:40 PM#37
I don't really see how age is a good argument against it's inability to gain the same numbers as before, mop isn't old, it's freshly developed in 2010-2012 not 8 years ago, by arguably the most wellfunded team in the industy.
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10/20/12 3:33:24 PM#38
Really? You don't see how a game having been out for 8 years is relevant to people wanting to keep playing it despite being in a highly competitive market with new, shiny titles releasing every few months? Well, I think it's relevant. I agree that the expansion has only been in development for a short while, but you can't change that much. The underlying game is still WoW, and, as you've seen, there's no shortage of hate for WoW. It's impressive in that it's unheard of. I could be wrong, but I'm fairly certain any developer would be ecstatic with those numbers after their MMO was out for 8+ years. Or did you just want to blindly hate on things? I could let you continue unperturbed, if you wish? |
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10/20/12 3:44:38 PM#39
Yeah people in these sort of threads are very quick to (incorrectly) assume that 10 million subs = 10 million level 85 people sitting in Stormwind/Orgrimmar queueing for a daily heroic and desperately waiting for some new content. It feels like that if you're that sort of player yourself, but it's far from a universal situation. There are lots of people out there (especially in WoW) who play a couple of hours every now and then and for whom reaching level cap is a distant dream. |
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10/21/12 5:52:51 AM#40
Originally posted by smh_alot You did bring up the ratio of expansions sold to the total player base. Did you not? it would easier to reach some proper conclusion if you do not keep changing goal posts in every reply. Your argument is not just about first day sales of MOP but how disappointing sales are when compared to total player base. That is why i brought up old expansions which if compared to the old player base of 11+ million would easily fall under category of 'not impressive'. |
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