Originally posted by gwei1984

Pros:

- Fantastic story & dungeons

I think this is just an insult for every descent story writer in games. Fantastic story? sorry but thats hilarious.

And dungeons? They have literally no boss mechanics and are mostly a spawn-rush fest.

I can understand many points in that review. but seriously? /facepalm

Agree.  It's very difficult to take the review seriously.

I appreciate the time you spent on the piece, OP, but I don't see much critical analysis in this.

Originally posted by Dakirn

I'm floored by this score.. really, a 9.3? Have our expectations really gone that low for games?

 

Why didn't you talk about the non-existant economy and how items are selling for less than cost to make.. or how the customer service is non-existant?  The non-existant PvE game at 80 that only exists of endless Legendary grinding?

 

I'm sorry Bill but this review is just your initial love for the game.  Everyone I know has already quit because at 80 there's nothing to do but grind, grind, grind.

Grinding dungeons and BG's or whatever all day to get that new set of armor is any different to that .

U people are after gear over and over aggain to keep on subbing and u call that 'end game'.

One can only laugh at that i am sorry but that is how it is.

The same is true about raids and heroics and so on , they are just an endless gear grind ,and u all know that but still this is what end game is for u people , one can only be sad by what Blizz and all those companies have turned MMO's into.

But if this is what turns u on go on and pay them ur hard earned cash for that garbage.

Have a nice day

How could you score Social an 8 when you say yourself that  "such an openly social system somehow makes people actually socialize less."

This sounds like social should be a failing score if the system in place makes people "socialize less"

Lath

The bar needs to be raised?

Someone call James Cameron!

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Originally posted by Lethality

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Originally posted by kaiser3282

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Originally posted by Lethality For anyone reading this looking to purchase the game, here's the best review I can give:   It's closer to Diablo 3 than an MMO if that helps.    

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- Lobby based - Non-persistant - extremely gear & stat dependant - real money AH - isometric view - No PvP whatsoever - extensive gear grinding in order to progress past X point - 99% of stuff that drops is completely useless, including the uniques - 100% linear with only one method of leveling - so terrible that the staff pretty much came out and said "yeah we screwed up, we need to redo a huge portion of the game" due to pissed off fans of the series That sounds EXACTLY like GW2. /sarcasm  

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As a matter of fact, Diablo 3 does RPG better than GW2.

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You know that it can't be called a fact, when... well... it's just your opinion?

Originally posted by Kuppa

Originally posted by Wolvards

Originally posted by Randayn

Originally posted by abeltensor

 

with a broken dungeon system and no distinguishable class system, a hidden quest system and absolutely no end game this game doesnt deserve any of the praise its getting.  It basically is the game that will break the genre of the MMORPG and turn serious gamers away.  In-fact, i think MMOs died when WoW came out and every mmo after that decided to make their content all quest based.  

Back in the days of real MMOs where you invested 1000s of hours into your character and went on quests that were for unique items most of which sucked in retrospect but where fun to have because you could say i got that by competing this mammoth quest that involved talking to No NPCs.  Instead these games no supplement those unique items with achievements which don’t really matter either way.  GW2 isn’t innovative, Its ambitious but that about it.   The idea of breaking the Holy Trinity is quite a good one, but the way it was executed was horrible.  The idea of level scaling was a good one, but in the game it was horrible.  Etc etc.  There so much in this game that sounds good on paper but really turns out to be a bad decision.  

For any one who was into the old school MMOs, the "Hard-core" crowd this review is an insult and a horrifying look into what is supposedly considered to be innovative in this genera. 

THIS TIMES 1,000,000

It is a complete insult.  Now we know that people prefer generic and stupid over thought provoking and complex.  Wonderful....another beautiful creation destroyed by the "Pop Culture"...

Then why don't one of you two, oh wise grandmasters of MMORPGs, give us an example so profoundly amazing, that everyone that played old-school MMOs would say, "YES! THAT is INNOVATION!".

Because i'm pretty sure opinions vary regardless of what time period you started playing.

lol very true. Not only when you started playing but your likes and dislikes.

I loved that when I read there was a review I knew what type of comments to expect from the usuals. This was one of the type I expected, just from other more vocal anti GW2 people and not a couple I don't recognize.

I have to ask if you 2 like to overdramatize much? I can't say it is an insult or a slap in the face in any way. Do I prefer generic and stupid over thought provocing and complex? No, but one has to look around and see what's actually there rather than live in nostalgia and reminisce about past MMO greatness while turning ones nose at what is in front of them. To me GW2 is a great game for what it is and does. I don't compare it to what it isn't and what it was never trying to be. I do try to keep in in the perspective that it is a themepark of sorts and compare it to the other themeparks out there. I would love to play a game that took a second job status in the amount of time invested to play. But that game isn't here so bashing other games because my dream game doesn't exist seems pointless. A genre destroyed by pop culture indeed...... lol.

It is what it is and the review seems fair, albeit a little high in the score department. But like Eir_s pointed out, the score system is flooded with mediocer games with high scores so you can't rate it lower than some of them without getting backlash from the other end of the stick. Damned if you and damned if you don't.

I totally agree with that score - which is well deserved just for having the "balls" to get away from the WoW clone model in an AAA theme park MMORPG. And it's a success.

[mod edit]

There are very few MMORPGs I'd rate above 9.0 in the 17+ years I'm playing the graphic version of that genre - and GW2 is one of them.

Originally posted by Creslin321

Good review Bill, I agree with it.

But the best part of this review is reading all of the vitriol from the jilted anti-fans of GW2 ;).

jilted?  Do you even know what the word means?

This review is a joke though. 

Originally posted by grimal

Longevity 9?   How in the world did you come up with this number?

Edit:  I guess since "hundreds and hundreds of hours" equals a 9, the expectation is for an MMO to satiate our appetites for a month?  If so, what's the big deal if it's B2P or P2P since all the content is done within that first month and there is never a need to pay past the inital box price?

Easy becasue anyone who isnt a voracious 16+ hour a day (which is 90% of an MMO demographic) consumer of content relizes that GW2 has 2 times the content of a normal MMO.  Look at this, yesterday the first legendarys were crafted, more then a month after release.  The average gamer will take months, if not years to aquire something like this.  Everything from WvW to Orr to Armor/Weapon skin farming and everything inbetween.  The great thing is none of those things will EVER be made irelevant due to gear threadmill or leveling out of the area. Downscaling and flat stat progression in and of itself creates content.

Originally posted by Lethality

It's the gameplay... hack/slash/grind and no RPG elements involved. As a matter of fact, Diablo 3 does RPG better than GW2.

It's simply not an MMORPG as people would expect.

I agree.  It's more akin to Diablo or Gauntlet than it is of other MMORPGS.

Now, there is nothing wrong with that. 

But, this site is an MMORPG site and if this is considered and compared to other MMORPGS, why not include games like Borderlands?

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

I totally agree with that score - which is well deserved just for having the "balls" to get away from the WoW clone model in an AAA theme park MMORPG. And it's a success.

Those who don't like it are for most either bitter sandbox fan who are just hating on every new MMORPG anyway (so their opinion isn't worth much), or prisoners of the EQ/WoW clone model where everything should be a grind for a shiny purple reward instead of just playing for fun.

There are very few MMORPGs I'd rate above 9.0 in the 17+ years I'm playing the graphic version of that genre - and GW2 is one of them.

I would say that most of the people hating on it are bored. The idea of the game seemed better than the actual implementation. There are tons of posts of people who didn't realize what combat would be like minus the trinity or a game without gear / vertical progression. There are a lot of people who don't want to redo content being down leveled. They are not all "bitter" sandbox fans or "prisoners" of the WoW/EQ model. Even if they are, why must you demean them for something they like. To them, grinding for that purple may be fun.

Originally posted by Dakirn

I'm floored by this score.. really, a 9.3? Have our expectations really gone that low for games?

 

Why didn't you talk about the non-existant economy and how items are selling for less than cost to make.. or how the customer service is non-existant?  The non-existant PvE game at 80 that only exists of endless Legendary grinding?

 

I'm sorry Bill but this review is just your initial love for the game.  Everyone I know has already quit because at 80 there's nothing to do but grind, grind, grind.

As opposed to the endless stat grinding in other MMO's? 

You may not like it but GW2 is a game and a world, it isnt a checklist of failed "been there - done that" experiences.

Originally posted by Zylaxx

Originally posted by Dakirn

I'm floored by this score.. really, a 9.3? Have our expectations really gone that low for games?

 

Why didn't you talk about the non-existant economy and how items are selling for less than cost to make.. or how the customer service is non-existant?  The non-existant PvE game at 80 that only exists of endless Legendary grinding?

 

I'm sorry Bill but this review is just your initial love for the game.  Everyone I know has already quit because at 80 there's nothing to do but grind, grind, grind.

As opposed to the endless stat grinding in other MMO's? 

 

You may not like it but GW2 is a game and a world, it isnt a checklist of failed "been there - done that" experiences.

+1   Nice response to the quoted portion. I fail to see the difference and never understood how anyone can argue one way regarding GW2 and it's end game (or lack there of) and then champion another games endgame when it is essentially the same thing with different delivery. The things I enjoy most in GW2 are all about the presentation and that seems to include endgame but I have to admit I haven't made it there due to my altohaulic nature.

For everyone arguing that something was rated and not in other games I can say the same thing regarding replayability. WTH didn't GW2 get a replayability rating since I have enjoyed revisiting zones in this game more than any other game I have played. Wonderwhat the reviewer would have thought of that aspect?

Originally posted by stevebmbsqd

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

I totally agree with that score - which is well deserved just for having the "balls" to get away from the WoW clone model in an AAA theme park MMORPG. And it's a success.

Those who don't like it are for most either bitter sandbox fan who are just hating on every new MMORPG anyway (so their opinion isn't worth much), or prisoners of the EQ/WoW clone model where everything should be a grind for a shiny purple reward instead of just playing for fun.

There are very few MMORPGs I'd rate above 9.0 in the 17+ years I'm playing the graphic version of that genre - and GW2 is one of them.

I would say that most of the people hating on it are bored. The idea of the game seemed better than the actual implementation. There are tons of posts of people who didn't realize what combat would be like minus the trinity or a game without gear / vertical progression. There are a lot of people who don't want to redo content being down leveled. They are not all "bitter" sandbox fans or "prisoners" of the WoW/EQ model. Even if they are, why must you demean them for something they like. To them, grinding for that purple may be fun.

They are bored precisely because they need that gear carrot from EQ/WoW clones. Without it, they can't play a game... they can't play a game just for fun, like many did in games like UO and AC1.

And yes, I "demean" them... I demean people who need a game to be a second job at max level to play it. And I do that because they are the main cause why all AAA MMORPGs in the last 8 years are WoW clones. I'm glad to have a game where the gameplay doesn't drastically change and force you into a group based raid grind at max level. Seriously, all those grind greedy people can play WoW or any of its numerous clones, and just stay the hell away from the only AAA theme park game in 8 years which had the balls to move away from that rigid model.

PS: this comes from a guy who played WoW for 8 years (including beta) and will certainly try Pandaria at some point. But for hell's sake, it's time to break that mold... for those who want more WoW, there is WOW. I'm glad to have a game that is NOT WoW. Not to mention all those who have tried to imitate the master sucked at it.

The endless chain of mediocre to bad WoW clones is broken. Any true MMORPG fan should rejoice, even if he doesn't like GW2, because despite him not liking it, the game is a success showing that things can be done differently. Or do you guys want to spend the next 10 years getting more poor WoW clone after poor WoW clone?

Originally posted by raven222

Originally posted by Dakirn

I'm floored by this score.. really, a 9.3? Have our expectations really gone that low for games?

 

Why didn't you talk about the non-existant economy and how items are selling for less than cost to make.. or how the customer service is non-existant?  The non-existant PvE game at 80 that only exists of endless Legendary grinding?

 

I'm sorry Bill but this review is just your initial love for the game.  Everyone I know has already quit because at 80 there's nothing to do but grind, grind, grind.

Grinding dungeons and BG's or whatever all day to get that new set of armor is any different to that .

U people are after gear over and over aggain to keep on subbing and u call that 'end game'.

One can only laugh at that i am sorry but that is how it is.

The same is true about raids and heroics and so on , they are just an endless gear grind ,and u all know that but still this is what end game is for u people , one can only be sad by what Blizz and all those companies have turned MMO's into.

But if this is what turns u on go on and pay them ur hard earned cash for that garbage.

Have a nice day

You people? Don't assume you know anything about my play styles or what I want.

I hate grinds of any kind.  I don't WANT grinds at all.  The amount of GRINDING needed to get ONE legendary item in GW2 is more than the total grinding I've done in almost any MMO for the ENTIRE GAME.

And it's just not that it's for a single item.. it's a cosmetic item with no major advantage over a non-legendary.  Since stats aren't that big of a difference I don't feel an inscentive of to spend months of my life grinding the same "dynamic" events over and over again to gain skill points so that I can purchase mats and "gamble" at the mystic forge getting the mats I need to craft one.

I'm not advocating the standard MMO grind either, but in GW2 it's all grind.  I don't call that an innovation of 10.

Originally posted by Dakirn

I'm not advocating the standard MMO grind either, but in GW2 it's all grind.  I don't call that an innovation of 10.

It's because of stuff like this that some GW2 players get angry on this forums sometimes. People have been complaining about having to grind for gear for ages before they can compete at max level, GW2 completely removed that grind. You won't have to grind the normal version of a dungeon for weeks before you can do the harder one, and then the raid version of it. You won't have to grind for weeks if not months before you are no longer canon fodder in PvP.

As I said in another thread, if GW2 has a grind, then WoW clones are the virtual version of slavery.

Guild Wars 2 while unfortunate for [some] is a [Great] game.

By the way it still has me with longevity in PVE in fact, post 80 which I might be an "minority."(Meaning I stil am having the same amount of fun in PVE before I was level 80)

A-NET stated they wanted to make a great game, well they did.

By the way, s expected is there anny reviews where it scores below 9.0? I'm curious cause I been looking, it was like back when WoW released, had a lot of 9.0+ reviews.

It's that a game that isn't a WoW(EQ tbh) clone actually get good reviews and is a great game any way. Longevity is there, but whether you like it or not is a different question, oh and I can't wait for ArcheAge to release hopefully by the end of 2013 or early 2014 how ever I hope it doesn't have a sub, or it'll be the "great game I'll nver play."

Anyways I'm out spot on review tbh, however I treat all reviews like opinions. People who are up in arms lol, don't worry hopefully Arch Age and Darkfall will get you guys, both are sandboxes, well one is a sandpark, just like GW2 being a "themebox" sorry but Badspock was spot on when he said that months ago.

I'll continue to eat my popcorn though, A-NET does deserve these scores an etc, they or at the very least [attempting] but are actually not [half-assing] their [attempt] to be different.

Please do enjoy life fellas and peace.

Originally posted by grimal

Originally posted by Lethality

It's the gameplay... hack/slash/grind and no RPG elements involved. As a matter of fact, Diablo 3 does RPG better than GW2.

It's simply not an MMORPG as people would expect.

I agree.  It's more akin to Diablo or Gauntlet than it is of other MMORPGS.

Now, there is nothing wrong with that. 

But, this site is an MMORPG site and if this is considered and compared to other MMORPGS, why not include games like Borderlands?

some people said the same thing about original guild wars being like Diablo

and GW1 had far more story than diablo

GW2 is fully persistent world and is no Diablo lobby game

mmos like WOW seem more like a lobby game

 - stand in city, que for dungeon finder instance w random people that you'll probably never see again