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News & Features Discussion  » [Review] Guild Wars 2: Raising the Bar

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  KingJiggly

Novice Member

Joined: 8/03/11
Posts: 807

Definition for innovation is below. Your welcome.

10/05/12 3:26:46 PM#421
Originally posted by Randayn
Originally posted by Bladestrom
Why the hell would you try to take a linear approach in a non linear game. Concrete example: when I was leave 50, I played at level 5 when I was with some guildies, level 30 when I was doing cm story with guildies, level 80 in pvp, then when soloing I explored levels 3-5 above me to get some nice gathering and danger, and level 50 ish for some events that I could have some carefree blasting. The gathering in zones higher than my level fed my crafting and discovery. Nothing was linear. In short, if you are acting in a linear way then that's what you get.

I'd actually venture to say that you are taking a non-linear approach to a linear game.

Do you hear yourself? Or are you jsut that stubborn? lol

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/innovation

  mbolme

Novice Member

Joined: 9/27/05
Posts: 48

10/05/12 3:28:40 PM#422
Originally posted by Randayn

I'd actually venture to say that you are taking a non-linear approach to a linear game.

I disagree. It seems quite non-linear to me. Other than avoiding areaas too high for me, I have felt free to go wherever I want whenever I want. If avoiding areaas too high for you makes it linear to yu, I guess we have different definitions of linear.

  Bladestrom

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/04/11
Posts: 2732

10/05/12 3:32:42 PM#423
Lol if the game allows me to take a non linear approach and reward me for it then that .. Makes..it..non..linear. Because you know what, these things are not by accident. There is code in place that allows this.

rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW (9500 hrs on main mage)> oblivion > LOTR (480 Hunter) > Rift (230 hours mage) > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(850 elementalist)

Now playing GW2/vanilla wow

  User Deleted
10/05/12 3:44:32 PM#424
Originally posted by Randayn
Originally posted by The_Korrigan
Originally posted by Randayn

GW2 is linear...sure you can go back levels, but you can't progress without leveling.  

Every single MMORPG is linear then. Even pure sandbox games like Minecraft are linear. You can't progress without improving your character in a way or another. UO is linear (raise those skills). EvE is linear (raise... those skills). There's no other way to progress than to raise those skills or levels.

What's your point, exactly?

thanks for the generalization...and thanks for grabbing one comment of mine and turning into what you may.

My full comment was that you progress through 1 zone at a time, crafted to fit level requirements, doing DE's that fit level requirements as they go along in order to reach endgame...

Generalizing my comments won't change the truth man...

Your truth is definitely not the truth. Even at low levels, you are never limited to one zone. And the more you progress, the more the whole world becomes your playground thanks to downscaling. This is the truth, the real one anyone who really played through the game knows.

What you say is just misinformation. It's not new here, others have posted the same crap. It doesn't make it more true because it's you posting it this time.

  Bladestrom

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/04/11
Posts: 2732

10/05/12 3:52:11 PM#425
To be fair the disease of the linear/optimal xp path approach to max level is so ingrained in se players due to some pretty manipulative gameplay models many are quite frankly terrified of a more freeform approach. Rather than lambasting peeps maybe they will think well if sim people can play a game in a non linear fashion then I can too!

rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW (9500 hrs on main mage)> oblivion > LOTR (480 Hunter) > Rift (230 hours mage) > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(850 elementalist)

Now playing GW2/vanilla wow

  Randayn

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/16/12
Posts: 588

10/05/12 3:54:54 PM#426
Originally posted by The_Korrigan
Originally posted by Randayn
Originally posted by The_Korrigan
Originally posted by Randayn

GW2 is linear...sure you can go back levels, but you can't progress without leveling.  

Every single MMORPG is linear then. Even pure sandbox games like Minecraft are linear. You can't progress without improving your character in a way or another. UO is linear (raise those skills). EvE is linear (raise... those skills). There's no other way to progress than to raise those skills or levels.

What's your point, exactly?

thanks for the generalization...and thanks for grabbing one comment of mine and turning into what you may.

My full comment was that you progress through 1 zone at a time, crafted to fit level requirements, doing DE's that fit level requirements as they go along in order to reach endgame...

Generalizing my comments won't change the truth man...

Your truth is definitely not the truth. Even at low levels, you are never limited to one zone. And the more you progress, the more the whole world becomes your playground thanks to downscaling. This is the truth, the real one anyone who really played through the game knows.

What you say is just misinformation. It's not new here, others have posted the same crap. It doesn't make it more true because it's you posting it this time.

I didnt know you could play in 2 zones at the same time...you read me wrong.  I understand that there are a handful of zones for each level....downscaling will never make sense to me...I dont want to see the same area again and I also like to make alts to see new areas.

  Randayn

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/16/12
Posts: 588

10/05/12 3:58:53 PM#427
Originally posted by Bladestrom
To be fair the disease of the linear/optimal xp path approach to max level is so ingrained in se players due to some pretty manipulative gameplay models many are quite frankly terrified of a more freeform approach. Rather than lambasting peeps maybe they will think well if sim people can play a game in a non linear fashion then I can too!

that's pretty funny....most of the games I've played (with any success of having a good time) do not involve this.  I guess it's that where MMORPG's were and are now are 2 different species.  AO, Ryzom and games of that nature were non-linear.  You could go to different areas and expect a much different atmosphere, approach and feeling.

Switching from zone to zone in GW2 feels kinda like when you go to get your kids picture taken and throw a background up....when they switch that...that's what the zones feel like, especially the questing, exploration and everything else...generic

I'm tired of arguing about it though and I'm sure you are tired of hearing me argue, so I'm gonna retire from lambasting the game (not the "peeps"...never did lambast anyone really).  

My biggest problem is that this game sets a precident for every MMO to come and that precident will change the face of MMO's for the worst.  they will slowly dumb down games over and over again as they did with this one, til playing an MMORPG might as well be like playing an FPS....generic story, generic setting and generic gamplay with actiony type combat.

It's a sad day for what used to be a "niche" gaming community (MMORPGs)...now overrun by the masses of pop cultured gents and ladies.

  Bladestrom

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/04/11
Posts: 2732

10/05/12 4:01:09 PM#428
Huh? This is not a linear game ( c'mon listen) where you clear zone 1 and then returning = repeating. Often when you return to a zone, you a) return to Play with a friend and it's still fun for you and b) a lot of the content you have not seem yet unless you take a daft forced linear approach. When you up level that different again.

rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW (9500 hrs on main mage)> oblivion > LOTR (480 Hunter) > Rift (230 hours mage) > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(850 elementalist)

Now playing GW2/vanilla wow

  Randayn

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/16/12
Posts: 588

10/05/12 4:04:40 PM#429
Originally posted by Bladestrom
Huh? This is not a linear game ( c'mon listen) where you clear zone 1 and then returning = repeating. Often when you return to a zone, you a) return to Play with a friend and it's still fun for you and b) a lot of the content you have not seem yet unless you take a daft forced linear approach. When you up level that different again.

I went to several different zones and they all felt empty (in spirit) and generic...one had snow, one didnt....that was it.  Im done though...just thought Id comment one more time.

 

have a good weekend everyone!

  Bladestrom

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/04/11
Posts: 2732

10/05/12 4:04:47 PM#430
You arguement against gw2 are ancient game- that gw2 actually borrowed ideas from in a rather against the grain manner. You sir are arguing for the sake of arguing.

rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW (9500 hrs on main mage)> oblivion > LOTR (480 Hunter) > Rift (230 hours mage) > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(850 elementalist)

Now playing GW2/vanilla wow

  Bladestrom

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/04/11
Posts: 2732

10/05/12 4:05:42 PM#431
Randayn you done that solo didn't you.

rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW (9500 hrs on main mage)> oblivion > LOTR (480 Hunter) > Rift (230 hours mage) > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(850 elementalist)

Now playing GW2/vanilla wow

  User Deleted
10/05/12 4:08:21 PM#432
Originally posted by Randayn
Originally posted by Bladestrom
Huh? This is not a linear game ( c'mon listen) where you clear zone 1 and then returning = repeating. Often when you return to a zone, you a) return to Play with a friend and it's still fun for you and b) a lot of the content you have not seem yet unless you take a daft forced linear approach. When you up level that different again.

I went to several different zones and they all felt empty (in spirit) and generic...one had snow, one didnt....that was it.  Im done though...just thought Id comment one more time.

 

have a good weekend everyone!

Oh, yes... and please give me example of MMORPGs which aren't that way then?

UO? Oh look, a snow area full of mobs and resources. Oh, a desert areas... full of mobs and resources.

AC1? Oh look, a desert area full of mobs and resources. Oh dang, and a mountain area... which is full of mobs, and resources.

EQ? Want me to continue and go through the whole mainstream MMO history, because I've played them all?

Please, give us a break. TIme for another block apparently.

  Torgrim

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 12/15/05
Posts: 2099

10/05/12 4:34:26 PM#433
Originally posted by Torgrim

Yes this game is innovating dosen't matter how you see it, GW2 dosen't really follow the mainstream games, they took bits here and there mixed them up and expanded on the ideas and yes I call that innovation and not  revolutionary features.

Just one question for all you "there is no innovation at all"? you all tend to just write what the game has, never  have I read your ideas that has never EVER been seen in a game since dawn of gaming, can you guys please write me a innovating list that will work in a MMORPG and consider many gamers love to greaf and destroy, so I say please again write me a list of innovating ideas, how it will be implented and how it can work in a MMORG without imploding.

I have also read that several people find this game very antisocial, why is that?

Do you chat more when you are grouped in other games or are you like most gamers, speedtrhue the quest and write a short text in group chat..."thanks all, I'm off" after the quest is done?

Are you that guy who actively write in chat asking for groups to kill this or that?

Or are you that guy who waiting for other people to write in chat asking for groups to kill this or that?

Now you see most people have a hard time to interact with people they never have met, so they tend not to write in chat just waiting for that special guy who have some balls to pop the question.

On to longevity, this is highly a personal taste, if you are the one who plays 6-7 hours a day so you can bumrush to max level so you can be part of the leet 80 crew and you are not that fond of WvWvW or crafting then yes this game won't hold much longevity for you.

If you are like me, taking my time leveling up several toons at the same time, love crafting,exploring and WvWvW then yes this game will have longvity for you.

Ohh I forgot what's all about this Zerg talk that keeps popping up as a "valid" argument that WvWvW sucks?

What do you want, 1v1, small 5 man rambo style open world PvP?

WvWvW is a server battle and in battles, here it comes "gasp" there are armies (gamer term: zerg) of cource there is a big blob running around trying to capture points, and if it's a pug blob well they don't have a pissing chance against a guild blob so what's so bad about this?

How is that any different from USA and it's allied invaded IRAQ, now that's a MASSIVE zerg.

And lastly I have also seen some freak arguments that "hey GW2 is just like any other game out there with killing mobs, collecting stuff and mats".....well DUH..what did you expect.

Maby you who have this argument really are looking for is no crafting, mobless and emty world and your start your toon at max level with all the bells and wizzles, or have I missed your point all together, if so,, please explain how this could be done any better.

 

Still no one wanna answer my questions, good in a way I guess, it means the whiners arguments are as ashallow ans the trolls.

Sad I was hoping for some fun ideas from you guys who seems to know so much how a MMORPG should be and how it could be possible to make a game that no one have ever done before.

 

If it's not broken, you are not innovating.

  Aerowyn

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

10/05/12 4:37:17 PM#434
Originally posted by Torgrim
 

 

Still no one wanna answer my questions, good in a way I guess, it means the whiners arguments are as ashallow ans the trolls.

Sad I was hoping for some fun ideas from you guys who seems to know so much how a MMORPG should be and how it could be possible to make a game that no one have ever done before.

 

Sandbox sandbox sandbox... pretty much the answer you will get or at least sandbox hybrid.. I'm all for sandbox games and looking forward to several coming but I still can appreciate and enjoy a very well made themepark:)

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  User Deleted
10/05/12 4:42:35 PM#435
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by Torgrim
 

 

Still no one wanna answer my questions, good in a way I guess, it means the whiners arguments are as ashallow ans the trolls.

Sad I was hoping for some fun ideas from you guys who seems to know so much how a MMORPG should be and how it could be possible to make a game that no one have ever done before.

 

Sandbox sandbox sandbox... pretty much the answer you will get or at least sandbox hybrid.. I'm all for sandbox games and looking forward to several coming but I still can appreciate and enjoy a very well made themepark:)

Same here. Like many, I'm still hoping for some "worthy" successor to Ultima Online. Not crap like Darkfaill or Mortal, a really good AAA sandbox game. But in the meantime, I do not "spit in the soup" and enjoy well made theme parks too.

  Randayn

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/16/12
Posts: 588

10/05/12 4:43:32 PM#436
Originally posted by Bladestrom
You arguement against gw2 are ancient game- that gw2 actually borrowed ideas from in a rather against the grain manner. You sir are arguing for the sake of arguing.

oh, I love a good argument...that's why I come on these forums....people actually put up a good fight and I believe most understand it's not personal.  But, I only argue about that which I am passionate about. 

  Bladestrom

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/04/11
Posts: 2732

10/05/12 4:44:32 PM#437
Agrees, for me all going well archage will be my fantasy sandbox, eve for obvious reasons, gw2 for my fantasy pve, and possibly rift when i want a more traditional trinity competing on Meters xp. Future options look good, and all the better because each of those games focus on their strengths.

rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW (9500 hrs on main mage)> oblivion > LOTR (480 Hunter) > Rift (230 hours mage) > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(850 elementalist)

Now playing GW2/vanilla wow

  Bladestrom

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/04/11
Posts: 2732

10/05/12 4:46:27 PM#438
And I would agree Randayn :)

rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW (9500 hrs on main mage)> oblivion > LOTR (480 Hunter) > Rift (230 hours mage) > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(850 elementalist)

Now playing GW2/vanilla wow

  stevebmbsqd

Novice Member

Joined: 9/26/09
Posts: 457

"Evolution thru Revolution"

10/05/12 4:48:02 PM#439
Originally posted by The_Korrigan
Originally posted by Randayn
Originally posted by The_Korrigan
Originally posted by Randayn

GW2 is linear...sure you can go back levels, but you can't progress without leveling.  

Every single MMORPG is linear then. Even pure sandbox games like Minecraft are linear. You can't progress without improving your character in a way or another. UO is linear (raise those skills). EvE is linear (raise... those skills). There's no other way to progress than to raise those skills or levels.

What's your point, exactly?

thanks for the generalization...and thanks for grabbing one comment of mine and turning into what you may.

My full comment was that you progress through 1 zone at a time, crafted to fit level requirements, doing DE's that fit level requirements as they go along in order to reach endgame...

Generalizing my comments won't change the truth man...

Your truth is definitely not the truth. Even at low levels, you are never limited to one zone. And the more you progress, the more the whole world becomes your playground thanks to downscaling. This is the truth, the real one anyone who really played through the game knows.

What you say is just misinformation. It's not new here, others have posted the same crap. It doesn't make it more true because it's you posting it this time.

GW2 is pretty linear in the way that zones are set up for specific levels. You progress to certain level and are capable of doing certain zones and the tasks within. Sure you can go back to areas that you have outleveled, but that really has nothing to do with whether the leveling experience is linear or not. As far as having several zones for specific levels, there are many MMO's that already do this. You might say that it has non-linear regression, but then again so does pretty much every other MMO with the only difference being that you are downleveled in GW2. Even then, unless you are just a few levels above the content, it is extremely easy so I'm not quite sure the downleveling is all that great of a feature. I am not saying GW2 is a horrible game, but don't try to make it out to be more than it is.

  Torgrim

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 12/15/05
Posts: 2099

10/05/12 4:51:32 PM#440
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by Torgrim
 

 

Still no one wanna answer my questions, good in a way I guess, it means the whiners arguments are as ashallow ans the trolls.

Sad I was hoping for some fun ideas from you guys who seems to know so much how a MMORPG should be and how it could be possible to make a game that no one have ever done before.

 

Sandbox sandbox sandbox... pretty much the answer you will get or at least sandbox hybrid.. I'm all for sandbox games and looking forward to several coming but I still can appreciate and enjoy a very well made themepark:)

 

Well that was not my question was it?

My questions was never about sandbox this or that why I asked well read it again, and no It was not directed to you or anyone else who enjoy GW2 my questions were directed to those who make dumb arguments and dont back it up with thier own ideas.

If it's not broken, you are not innovating.

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