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News & Features Discussion  » [Review] Guild Wars 2: Raising the Bar

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509 posts found

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 7123

10/05/12 12:06:25 AM#321
Originally posted by bcbully

Look, tire companies, bleech producers and tissue companies "innovate" (sell) every year, better handling tread, brighter whites, and softer sqaures every year. 

GW2's largest innovation was in marketing. "Redefining" (selling)  gold buying,  payed beta weekends, cash shops, game world (three separate worlds instead of one cohessive), and end game (game has the exact same level cap structure as any other mmo,  without the content that supports more tiers.) 

You can debate innovation in questing all you want. I think GW2's biggest innovations are in the areeas above. These things will be GW2's legacy. 

I disagree.  I think one of the most innovative non-game mechanics Guild Wars 2 will be remembered for is undermining the overall subscription model in a way no F2P game has yet.  It will be interesting to see how subscription games fare in the next year or two.

I also think they get great credit for creating an immersive game world with beautiful visuals, music and audio that add to the immersion, providing a lot of non-stabby content, a world where a player can wander about and do what they want, a fun combat system, interesting class design, linked achievements from GW1, group friendly play, and an overall great world to play around in.

I haven't had this much fun in a game with my family and guildies ina  really long time.


Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 7123

10/05/12 12:13:48 AM#322
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by eric1000

Originally posted by Caldrin

Innovation at 10??

Ah i give up..

 Read  'Ooh! loads of advertising money, course we will give you a high score'

And meanwhile, SWTOR gets a high score in innovation and Vanguard gets... a 6. The reviewer even says "Well theres lots of innovation in Vanguard, but its so complicated!"

I know.  That 6 was entirely over generous.  A MTG style trading card game in the middle of an MMO.  What the hell was that about.  It was also developed in the same year EQ2 got LoN.  By your definition of innovation - it isn't.  Vanguard was an EQ2 ripoff clone and a fairly boring buggy one at that.  It's almost embarrassing to mention that game alongside the others in this thread.

Ryzom would have been a better choice to champion.  They actually innovated the idea of user generated content in their MMO.


Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/01/10
Posts: 142

10/05/12 12:55:46 AM#323
Originally posted by grimal

I think I'm onto something here.  Most people that are so enamored of this game seem to be WoW burnouts ( having spent years and years playing WoW).  Thus, the slighest change from those years of experience for them is being viewed as "innovation." (Additionally, I think these same people are the ones crying "WoW Clone" so much)

I, for one, spent (at most) 2 or so months playing WoW and never experienced that symptom.  Be interesting to see how many people really like this game who didn't play WoW for years on end....

Just a theory, of course.


I'll be a data point for you.  I love Guild Wars 2 and I never played WoW.


Novice Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2604

10/05/12 1:11:11 AM#324
Originally posted by Torvaldr
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by eric1000

Originally posted by Caldrin

Innovation at 10??

Ah i give up..

 Read  'Ooh! loads of advertising money, course we will give you a high score'

And meanwhile, SWTOR gets a high score in innovation and Vanguard gets... a 6. The reviewer even says "Well theres lots of innovation in Vanguard, but its so complicated!"

I know.  That 6 was entirely over generous.  A MTG style trading card game in the middle of an MMO.  What the hell was that about. It's a new innovation, and is a very fun and rewarding way to get additional lore of the story. It sbetter than just being fed endless text that doesn't amount to anything. Anything that lets me get NPCs to poison one another via dialogue battles is an awesome system.  It was also developed in the same year EQ2 got LoN. Wrong. By your definition of innovation - it isn't. Considering no other game has it even now, yes it is. Vanguard was an EQ2 ripoff clone and a fairly boring buggy one at that.  Vanguard is more of an EverQuest 1 clone than an EQ2 clone. EQ2 was focused on instances and casual gameplay. Vanguard was not. And know why its similar to EQ1? Because the guy who designed EQ1 designed Vanguard. It's almost embarrassing to mention that game alongside the others in this thread. How do you figure? Before GW2 came along it was the best PvE MMO on the market.

Ryzom would have been a better choice to champion.  They actually innovated the idea of user generated content in their MMO.

But sure, lets pretend Diplomacy was Vanguards only innovation.

  User Deleted
10/05/12 1:35:42 AM#325

I would give the game a 9.0 if I would have enjoyed it...


Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/26/12
Posts: 90

10/05/12 2:37:24 AM#326

Found it quite dull. I don't see where the innovation is (other than grouping mechanics) the GUI is an unscaled mess like something from "junior angler".  It's worth 7.5 or 8 and it's better than SWTOR, but it's hardly a great game. Yes you "can" roam all over the place, but there is no purpose to it, so that soon loses its appeal. You can still get ganked by high level mobs if you roam in to the wrong area - in fact in that regard you can roam wherever you want in any game [and get killed for your trouble] so not sure where the "innovation and freedom" that's talked about here is with that. It's ok. UNderneath the hoodm crafting is just the same as any other game as well, character customization is appaling (everyone looks the same at about every level, "Oh Miss Blunderbuss, you have slighly stripier trousers" Yip..flipping...eee. COntrols are a complete screw up, "sick 'o' vision" camera movement with "vomit 'o' matic" inertia and acceleration at every setting you try doesn't help either. Movement is like trying to coax a pea up you livingroom wall using chopsticks...while wearing boxing gloves.

All that can be fixed though I reckon, but giving the game suc h a high score for polish? Nahh - it just aint so.

Wworth the money, and will do well. but it's not a classic. 70% of the fanbois on this thread won't be playing this game after Xmas that's for sure.


Novice Member

Joined: 1/04/09
Posts: 17

10/05/12 3:06:31 AM#327

I always thought that, gamespot, ... and many other "main site" reviews are biased and in a lot of ways very "smelly". But I always told myself that I am exagerrating. This review proves my theory, for me.

Such blatant "boot licking" as is this review is simply not professional for a reviewer on a game site of such caliber as is "". Are you gettin paid by them?

I mean, I like the game. Is has some really great parts.But this goes much more than liking, its almost worship. But I don't know who he worships. GW2 or ArenaNet?

Is it just a coincidence that hise stellar review is published at the time that game is starting to show it's ugly head? Lack of end-game besides huuuge grind, non demanding PVE, combat that has divided GW2 playerbase into lovers and haters, lack of personification options and let's not forget ... their latest "third reich" adaptation: diminishing returns on basic gameplay. You are not alowed to play for more than give or take 30 minutes in the same zone. You are expected to move to another or out of the game. And their response ... it will take few weeks.

Or is this your first game review? If this is the case, I appologize.


Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/04/12
Posts: 457

10/05/12 3:27:43 AM#328

Today I learned that:

1) an MMO with its endgame in the cons list can get more than 5/10 in the overall score.

2) GW2 has "fantastic story and dungeons"

3) GW2's copy pasted dynamic events are somehow better than classic questing.

4) GW2 losing 40-50% of its player base within a month (see xfire+raptr) means it has longevity 9/10

5) not having to group or interact with anyone from 1 to 80+full exotics gives the game a social 8/10

6) the dungeon grind can be a con while at the same time the dungeons are "fantastic". How does that work exactly? If the dungeons were fun the grind would be fun.

DAoC - Excalibur & Camlann


Novice Member

Joined: 6/19/06
Posts: 249

10/05/12 3:29:18 AM#329


the only point I disagree with, mainly because the ground textures look like from GW1 which is 7 years old.


Elite Member

Joined: 4/19/08
Posts: 2138

10/05/12 3:37:25 AM#330

I enjoy so far a lot Gw2, but this article looks to me like "payed" one. Could agree on many points. But giving 8 to social??? At best deserves 4 to 5. Unless social has become running into group quest, start casting pounding, ressurecting, ... done & gone. To next event.

Innovation & Gameplay 10??? Is good but there are out there many many many games that should then get at least 12 if not 15.

I did not even bother further to read.

  User Deleted
10/05/12 3:50:36 AM#331

Bill (who I know a bit, worked with him on LOTRO Vault back in 2007) gave the game 9.3, the user score on this web site, despite the trolls who gave it 0-0-0-0-0, is still 9.0, that says a lot about the general opinion about the game. It also shows that once again, forums are definitely not the reflection of any general opinion, but from a niche, mostly bored people spending more time to post negative stuff on random game forums than actually playing games they enjoy.


Originally posted by stevebmbsqd

The thing is that you are whining about people who tried Taco Bell and decided to go back to the Mc Donald's style restaurant.

No I wouldn't, because in "real life", if someone would stand in the middle of a Taco Bell saying the food sucks and Mc Donald's is better, he would be thrown out (or the police would be called)... and most people don't do that anyway. It's only on the net where you have people standing in the middle of other's restaurant complaining about the food they aren't forced to eat.


Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 20125

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

10/05/12 3:59:55 AM#332
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by DavisFlight

I snipped them because they weren't innovative. Having multiple ways of starting and finishing a quest is a staple of classic MMORPGs, not a new idea. You honestly think GW2 was the first MMO that doesn't make you go back to the quest NPC?

much like wow at the time this game has taken many of the best aspects of other games and meshed them into a great game Except WoW left out the bulk of the better features, and just kept a shallow version of the boring features. And while GW2 has built on ideas, WoW never expanded or built on its features. as well as removing many of the issues of past games IE kill stealing was never an issue in any game I played, node stealing ect.. ect because you can't think of anything? the way it brings all these features together alone is innovated that's such a cop out "well no game has had this exact configuration! You can't claim a feature is innovative, find out its not, and then say, "oh but its like...totally presented in a unique way!" much like how wow at the time innovated didn't innovative AT ALL in all its years of running. the themepark by streamlining many features from other games.. wasn't the first game to do this like said many times nothing needs to be 100% new to be innovative.

Claiming something was done for the first time in one game, when it wasn't, is what the issue here is. It's like saying "No one had used a purple icon for quest NPCs before, THATS AN INNOVATION!"

sorry forgot you knew everything about what people want and like and you are the end all end all of what's innovated.. really you that closed minded you can't see people have differn't opinions about games and what features are considered good and interesting?

As someone who used to host MUDs on my BBS think I have been around long enough to know most of what people talk about from games in the past is pure nostalgia and not much more..

And I find most people who say this really never understood the beauty of the titles they were playing, so they can't see/recall what has changed/been lost over the years. (heck, there's people currently playing EVE for 4 or more years who amazingly still haven't grasped what its really all about, surprises me every time)

Sure, there were many bad things, and I always expected someone to remove the bad and enhance what was good.  Unfortunately it took an unexpected turn, they started tossing out the good with the bad, so while the games improved in many areas to be sure, what was discarded along the way removed most of the charm and challenge the earlier titles possessed.

I don't claim to know what other people like, its pretty obvious I have no clue why people like certain things like sushi (I blame it on improper upbringing)  but I do know for certain what I enjoy, and very few titles cater to my preferences.

But there's always hope on the horizon, especially if the genre decides to go up and crash and burn like some signs are pointing to.



In my day MMORPG's were sooooo hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow....uphill both ways.
Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon


Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

10/05/12 4:08:53 AM#333
The tell tale sign to his post is the "+full exoctics" bit.

It's the usual ex EQ / bc era wow crowd that moan about games being to easy and "scrubs get free epix"

Novice Member

Joined: 9/26/09
Posts: 457

"Evolution thru Revolution"

10/05/12 4:13:35 AM#334
Originally posted by The_Korrigan
Originally posted by Eir_S
Originally posted by Izik

Originally posted by ShakyMo


This game isn't designed for you. I like gw2, but I can't bloody stand EQ, and I'm not that keen on wow.


Well considering both of those games created this genre, I think it's fair to compare them to GW2.

How can something that wasn't released until 2004 be credited with creating the genre?  It (WoW) didn't create anything, it popularized the genre.  This kind of quote is as bad as saying "WoW was the first MMO".

Indeed, the first successful graphical MMORPG (beside early niche stuff like The Realm or Meridian and a few others) is Ultima Online. And Ultima Online is definitely closer to Guild Wars 2 than to any EQ/WoW clone.


That has to be the most laughable comment I have read. GW2 is in not more closely related to EQ/WoW than to UO.


Novice Member

Joined: 3/01/06
Posts: 1042

10/05/12 4:22:41 AM#335

Anyone saying the review is paid for is way off base. This website is generally favourable to ALL MMO's (maybe apart from WoW) so any game that isn't totally broken and releases full of content will get a decent score regardless.

If we couple in the fact that if you actually read this website frequently you would know that Bill is a massive fan of GW2 and has been excited about it for months, you would understand better where his review is coming from.

I don't agree with the score either but for Bill, he clearly really enjoys the game and for him it deserves that score, that is fair.


Novice Member

Joined: 4/17/12
Posts: 339

10/05/12 4:32:52 AM#336
Even if I had never heard of this game, I would buy it, just because of all the crazy hatred on the one side and the high ratings on the other side.

Advertising has us chasing cars and clothes, working jobs we hate so we can buy shit we don't need.


Novice Member

Joined: 1/31/04
Posts: 533

10/05/12 4:37:40 AM#337


Some may find GW2 to be innovative and social, I find it quite the opposite!

-Open Grouping! Yeah! Now I never need to talk with or meet anyone. Just tag that SP boss once and walk away, BAM +1 SP!!! Find a DE and join the faceless zerg, remember now don't stop to revive that fallen player if you want a Gold!

-No more grinding dungeons for endgame gear drops! YAY! NOW we grind dungeons and DE's for tokens, karma and materials we use to MAKE the endgame gear, so much... errr... better?!?

-Aesthetics? I'll give you that, a very pretty game mostly. A little uneven, more care seems to have been given to some areas over others, but very nice.

-Longevity? Failing utterly so far. There are few in my guilds still playing. We had a dedicate fanboi corp recuiting people to come to the 'perfect' game, to a person none of them play anymore. Out of a guild of 46 members, I am the only one that has logged on since Monday the 1st. And I am finding it harder and harder each day to log in... All I see is a few scattered players and tons of bots/hackers. Soon it will be back to Eve and thumb-twiddling I guess... damned if I will play FFxiv and that is about it for the coming-soons.


Advanced Member

Joined: 12/25/06
Posts: 1609

10/05/12 4:49:38 AM#338
Plays like any other MMO but I don't have to try to have fun it just happens by itself. I like the pvp in it and the d/e's. I don't think i'd be able to get back into the old style of questing now I experianced GW2's d/e system. It has an open group system or whatever you want to call it where you don't have to group up with people to get credit for the d/e you do, things you kill etc. If you are trying to get 100% as fast as possible you don't really have to worry about d/es since they don't really contribute to it but it's good to do it just for fun etc. It does what it's trying to do very well. You can't really stand out over someone else unless you like for example get black dye or something but gear wise everyone is exactly the same and it's more about skills and traits than anything else. Good to come in and have a bit of fun then you can go away for a couple of days and come back and have the same fun. 

This isn't a signature, you just think it is.


Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/09/08
Posts: 615

10/05/12 5:40:16 AM#339
definitely deserves the score! 

Have fun storming the castle! - Miracle Max


Novice Member

Joined: 11/05/10
Posts: 897

10/05/12 5:42:53 AM#340
Originally posted by boxsnd
Originally posted by Ethos86
Originally posted by boxsnd

Today I learned that:

1) an MMO with its endgame in the cons list can get more than 5/10 in the overall score.

Definition of endgame is "things to do once level cap is hit". By this definition there are tons of stuff to do after you hit 80. Depending on how you reached 80 you could still do personal story, craft legendary, complete dungeons and paths (story and explorable), complete the world map, WvWvW. I personally don't know why you'd put endgame in the cons list unless you're looking for themepark raids, arenas, and basically gear for power up treadmill. It's not required for MMOs to have those. ANet is probably more interested in catering to the demographic that dislike large scale scheduled raids. Also, I believe currently unavailable zones will be opened via patch much like WoW opening raids in major patches.

2) GW2 has "fantastic story and dungeons"

The difficulty of dungeons are putting off some players. I haven't done any yet, but the mini dungeons are fun. Also you need to let the personal story gain some momentum. It starts out slow as it introduces the player's backstory, but on my story I can feel things are about to get big.

3) GW2's copy pasted dynamic events are somehow better than classic questing.

Dunno why you had to associate "copy-pasted" with DEs, but omit them from classic quests. They're equally repetitive in nature, but DEs help make the world appear more alive. They give incentive to revisiting an area. Starting an event for the first time gives the feeling of discovery. That's not to say the current implementation of DEs are perfect, but I personally prefer the GW2 way over, say...WoW.

4) GW2 losing 40-50% of its player base within a month (see xfire+raptr) means it has longevity 9/10

Xfire is only meritable on discussions revolving around Xfire. I'm not in denial that population is stabilizing, but I could post server status displaying Full, High, Medium, etc. and that still won't prove anything because there's no actual numbers. As for longetivity, like I said there's tons of things to do, and let's not forget ANet will keep new (free) content coming.

5) not having to group or interact with anyone from 1 to 80+full exotics gives the game a social 8/10

You may have chosen not to interact with others, but asking for POIs, vistas, assistance with more difficult SP challenges, secret puzzles, and champion mob have to count for interaction. I see people do these. I do these. It's shortsighted to think that just because we're no longer forced to interact there's no more interaction to be had. Forced grouping isn't a metric for Socialization.

6) the dungeon grind can be a con while at the same time the dungeons are "fantastic". How does that work exactly? If the dungeons were fun the grind would be fun.

No comment. Haven't done dungeons. Maybe someone else will take this.

Haters, it's amusing.

I hope at least you were paid to create a new account over here and post this on your first day's first post. So funny to see these account stats right below your name.

Here's what I learned today: Trolls are too obvious.

Yet you don't even attempt to counter my arguments.

I said I wouldn't do this anymore, but you asked for it...

Unfortunately I couldn't give firsthand comments on some stuff as I haven't even experienced half of the game yet (my main is  only at level 48)

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