Originally posted by stevebmbsqd

Originally posted by Aerowyn

with 56 critic reviews with an average score of 91 i'd say Bill is pretty much on par with every other critic.

Almost 1400 gamespot user average 9.1

 

Ive watched gamespot user reviews for years now and the average from there has always been a lot closer to what I feel about a game.. well closer than metacritic user reviews at least

We'll discredit the critics when they write positive reviews for SWTOR, but they are right on when they do it for GW2. /rollseyes......

 

Where did I credit them? i just said Bill was on par with them.. again I don't put much stock in critic reviews for any game.. gamespot user reviews though i have found on par with my own views of most games

Originally posted by Izik

yeah because GW2 is also an isometric sandbox experience (http://www.lnx.gen.tr/data/media/37/UOKR_SS09.jpg) 

./facepalm

Oh yes, because the main aspect of a graphical MMORPG is the way its graphics are displayed...

Originally posted by Izik

My point was EQ and WoW pioneered the genre, and almost every game mechanic in current mmos stems directly from those two titles (you could also argue DAOC pioneered pvp).

You can't be serious. EQ had some part in the pioneering, even though MUDs based on the very same model (which is directly inspired from the age old Dungeons and Dragons) existed decades before EQ. But WoW? I love that game, but they added nothing to the genre. They mixed up what worked and perfected it. Note that it's not a bad thing, and WoW is one of the best MMOs ever released, but pioneering? Nope, no way. They didn't pioneer anything in the genre. If anything, EQ ruined the genre for over a decade by stalling it into the EQ and then WoW clone model we all know. Games like UO and AC1 were way more innovating than EQ or WoW, and so is GW2.

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

Originally posted by Izik

yeah because GW2 is also an isometric sandbox experience (http://www.lnx.gen.tr/data/media/37/UOKR_SS09.jpg) 

./facepalm

Oh yes, because the main aspect of a graphical MMORPG is the way its graphics are displayed...

 

lol you're the one comparing GW2 to UO. I pointed out the gameplay and graphical systems are nothing alike.

Since graphic display don't matter to you, I guess I'll start comparing GW2 to Diablo 3.

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

Originally posted by Izik

My point was EQ and WoW pioneered the genre, and almost every game mechanic in current mmos stems directly from those two titles (you could also argue DAOC pioneered pvp).

You can't be serious. EQ had some part in the pioneering, even though MUDs based on the very same model (which is directly inspired from the age old Dungeons and Dragons) existed decades before EQ. But WoW? I love that game, but they added nothing to the genre. They mixed up what worked and perfected it. Note that it's not a bad thing, and WoW is one of the best MMOs ever released, but pioneering? Nope, no way. They didn't pioneer anything in the genre. If anything, EQ ruined the genre for over a decade by stalling it into the EQ and then WoW clone model we all know. Games like UO and AC1 were way more innovating than EQ or WoW, and so is GW2.

That's like saying Apple didn't pioneer the digital music market because MP3 players existed before the IPod. 

You lost all credibility saying GW2 is more innovative than EQ and WoW. Talk about fanboyism.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0Y_XRiJsCI&feature=player_detailpage#t=364s

This sums up how I feel.

Originally posted by player666

I'm sorry I bought the game, it's like sugarcoated same shit mmo we've been playing since WOW. This review is all about the sugarcoat.

" Guild Wars 2 lives up to its hype." and "INNOVATION – 10" made me LOL.

Overall the review is so fake , it feels like reading about another game...

 

^

absolutely this.

Yet I wait for someone to explain how REMOVING things is innovation. GW2 = WoW with further dumbed down systems and nicer graphics. That´s it. WoWclone in new disguise, innovation value to the industry = ZERO

Fetchquests 2.0 with interactive quest log updates, death of grouping and trinity. Congratulations Innovation 10, and good to know all devs will jump on GW2ified WoWclones for the next decade instead of something new.

I´m going to play EvE and Secret World until World of Darkness comes out, thank god there are companies like CCP and Funcom, both pioneers of REAL innovation and breaking the WoWmold, not this overhyped Arenanet interpretation of "innovation".

It's hard to take this website seriously when they give SWTOR 9.5s and Vanguard a 6, and now claim that GW2 raised the bar...

People, the bar has been up there. AC, EQ, DAoC, UO, SWG, those games raised the bar. We've been wallowing well under the bar for about 8 years now thanks to WoW and its platoon of clones. GW2 is the first AAA MMORPG in years to even come close to the old MMOs (by, go figure, reusing ideas from Dark Age of Camelot) but lets not pretend its the best there ever was. It's just the first game to actually TRY in 8 years, but that doesn't invalidate the greatness of those golden age MMORPGs.

Originally posted by DavisFlight

[mod edit]

 

People, the bar has been up there. AC, EQ, DAoC, UO, SWG, those games raised the bar. We've been wallowing well under the bar for about 8 years now thanks to WoW and its platoon of clones. GW2 is the first AAA MMORPG in years to even come close to the old MMOs (by, go figure, reusing ideas from Dark Age of Camelot) but lets not pretend its the best there ever was. It's just the first game to actually TRY in 8 years, but that doesn't invalidate the greatness of those golden age MMORPGs.

I have a question, why do people want the old MMOs? Come on people, there is a reason the genre has changed. The market wants it. These people who comment about how this game comes close or offends them becuase the old MMOs were better gotta be kidding me. You all remind me of a English teacher who refused any new English. We had to pronounce words like metaphor into metapher and crap like that. We hated it. He also had an odd superiority complex that I do not understand to this day. Back to the main issue, my point is things change and grow as time goes on. Hopefully, for the better. There is a reason old MMOs do not exist. Becuase they weren't as good as you remembered them. In fact, they sucked. 

Originally posted by Yakamomoto

Originally posted by player666

I'm sorry I bought the game, it's like sugarcoated same shit mmo we've been playing since WOW. This review is all about the sugarcoat.

" Guild Wars 2 lives up to its hype." and "INNOVATION – 10" made me LOL.

Overall the review is so fake , it feels like reading about another game...

 

^

absolutely this.

Yet I wait for someone to explain how REMOVING things is innovation. GW2 = WoW with further dumbed down systems and nicer graphics. That´s it. WoWclone in new disguise, innovation value to the industry = ZERO

Fetchquests 2.0 with interactive quest log updates, death of grouping and trinity. Congratulations Innovation 10, and good to know all devs will jump on GW2ified WoWclones for the next decade instead of something new.

I´m going to play EvE and Secret World until World of Darkness comes out, thank god there are companies like CCP and Funcom, both pioneers of REAL innovation and breaking the WoWmold, not this overhyped Arenanet interpretation of "innovation".

 

It always makes me laugh seeing trolls like or +1 each other. I guess it makes them feel as if they are many. Posting 15 times in one forum doesn't make the majority much less give you the the right to say "I told you so", but I am sure you know that. Is it amusing to you? Do you think you are aiding the world by spreading your godly word to the battleground states.... I mean players? I   am interested in this. The game is good, if not great. Return to your tsw forums, and let the population, that you obviously think cant make there own opinion, decide which game is better. 

Looks like gratulations are in order. No game in the long history of MMORPG.com has ever reached a 9.3 score. GW2 is the first and only one. For now GW2 is the best MMORPG of all times.

Personally, I didn't play the game and likely never will. I just don't get it.

Originally posted by zymmanyx
I was warrning  4 excesive negative coment @ GW2  ! very nice ! NCsoft @ ArenaNet  dont accept critics !!!!???? very nice ! anyway 4 me GW2 is a crap game !

look everyone! I'm going to pull a yakamoto: +1

Originally posted by FrodoFragins
I don't think Innovation should be such an important factor in scoring a game.  A lot of genres are fairly well defined and don't require paradigm shifts to be enjoyable or solid games. 

Considering how the word "innovative" is thrown around these days, I'm inclined to agree. Frankly, I'm still trying to find a solid definition for the word, considering everyone uses it differently.

Originally posted by bcbully

You've posted this twice. It still makes no sense.

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

Let me ask you a question... There are 10 Mc Donald's like restaurants in a street. And suddenly, some guy opens a Taco Bell. I intentionally use two fast food examples so you can't use that as argument. Would anyone complain that for once, someone tries something different. For hell's sake, you aren't even forced to eat at the Taco Bell, there are 10 Mc Donald like games just a few meters away.

That my point. For 8 years, I've seen people here complain that every new MMORPG looks like WoW. Now that one doesn't look like WoW, the same people complain that it doesn't look like WoW. If that isn't nonsense... of course it is.

I don't dictate what is fun to a person. But I'm also amused at people complaining that the food at Taco Bell isn't the same than at Mc Donalds. Specially when they have a much wider choice than the Taco Bell amateurs.

Your assumption is that everyone who dislikes this game because it's not enough like WoW are hypocrites. I think you'd be hard pressed to prove that the people complaining that everything is a WoW clone are the same exact people who complain that this game isn't enough of a WoW clone. If you can find even 1 person on these forums who complained about games being WoW clones and then complained GW2 wasn't enough like WoW, I'd be impressed.

I think what you're percieving is that, no matter what the game, someone is going to complain about it.

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

Originally posted by Eir_S

Originally posted by Izik

Originally posted by ShakyMo

Izik:

This game isn't designed for you. I like gw2, but I can't bloody stand EQ, and I'm not that keen on wow.

 

Well considering both of those games created this genre, I think it's fair to compare them to GW2.

How can something that wasn't released until 2004 be credited with creating the genre?  It (WoW) didn't create anything, it popularized the genre.  This kind of quote is as bad as saying "WoW was the first MMO".

Indeed, the first successful graphical MMORPG (beside early niche stuff like The Realm or Meridian and a few others) is Ultima Online. And Ultima Online is definitely closer to Guild Wars 2 than to any EQ/WoW clone.

 

Originally posted by stevebmbsqd

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

Originally posted by stevebmbsqd

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

I totally agree with that score - which is well deserved just for having the "balls" to get away from the WoW clone model in an AAA theme park MMORPG. And it's a success.

Those who don't like it are for most either bitter sandbox fan who are just hating on every new MMORPG anyway (so their opinion isn't worth much), or prisoners of the EQ/WoW clone model where everything should be a grind for a shiny purple reward instead of just playing for fun.

There are very few MMORPGs I'd rate above 9.0 in the 17+ years I'm playing the graphic version of that genre - and GW2 is one of them.

I would say that most of the people hating on it are bored. The idea of the game seemed better than the actual implementation. There are tons of posts of people who didn't realize what combat would be like minus the trinity or a game without gear / vertical progression. There are a lot of people who don't want to redo content being down leveled. They are not all "bitter" sandbox fans or "prisoners" of the WoW/EQ model. Even if they are, why must you demean them for something they like. To them, grinding for that purple may be fun.

They are bored precisely because they need that gear carrot from EQ/WoW clones. Without it, they can't play a game... they can't play a game just for fun, like many did in games like UO and AC1.

And yes, I "demean" them... I demean people who need a game to be a second job at max level to play it. And I do that because they are the main cause why all AAA MMORPGs in the last 8 years are WoW clones. I'm glad to have a game where the gameplay doesn't drastically change and force you into a group based raid grind at max level. Seriously, all those grind greedy people can play WoW or any of its numerous clones, and just stay the hell away from the only AAA theme park game in 8 years which had the balls to move away from that rigid model.

PS: this comes from a guy who played WoW for 8 years (including beta) and will certainly try Pandaria at some point. But for hell's sake, it's time to break that mold... for those who want more WoW, there is WOW. I'm glad to have a game that is NOT WoW. Not to mention all those who have tried to imitate the master sucked at it.

The endless chain of mediocre to bad WoW clones is broken. Any true MMORPG fan should rejoice, even if he doesn't like GW2, because despite him not liking it, the game is a success showing that things can be done differently. Or do you guys want to spend the next 10 years getting more poor WoW clone after poor WoW clone?

To some people that is fun..... Who are you to dictate what is fun to a person. I see you being no different than someone who tells someone that they are playing the game wrong.

You only answer to like 10% of my post, at best.

Let me ask you a question... There are 10 Mc Donald's like restaurants in a street. And suddenly, some guy opens a Taco Bell. I intentionally use two fast food examples so you can't use that as argument. Would anyone complain that for once, someone tries something different. For hell's sake, you aren't even forced to eat at the Taco Bell, there are 10 Mc Donald like games just a few meters away.

That my point. For 8 years, I've seen people here complain that every new MMORPG looks like WoW. Now that one doesn't look like WoW, the same people complain that it doesn't look like WoW. If that isn't nonsense... of course it is.

I don't dictate what is fun to a person. But I'm also amused at people complaining that the food at Taco Bell isn't the same than at Mc Donalds. Specially when they have a much wider choice than the Taco Bell amateurs.

The thing is that you are whining about people who tried Taco Bell and decided to go back to the Mc Donald's style restaurant. Sure, there were lots of people that thought that they were going to like the new restaurant, but then when they sampled it they decided that it wasn't as good as what they had been eating. What is the wrong with that. I don't take time out of my day to demean people for what they like or don't like.

As for what is highlighted, you might want to revise that. You certainly did state that these people weren't playing these games for fun ("or prisoners of the EQ/WoW clone model where everything should be a grind for a shiny purple reward instead of just playing for fun") when this might certainly be their idea of fun.

Originally posted by mmaize

Originally posted by Randayn

Originally posted by Wolvards

Originally posted by Randayn

Originally posted by abeltensor

 

with a broken dungeon system and no distinguishable class system, a hidden quest system and absolutely no end game this game doesnt deserve any of the praise its getting.  It basically is the game that will break the genre of the MMORPG and turn serious gamers away.  In-fact, i think MMOs died when WoW came out and every mmo after that decided to make their content all quest based.  

Back in the days of real MMOs where you invested 1000s of hours into your character and went on quests that were for unique items most of which sucked in retrospect but where fun to have because you could say i got that by competing this mammoth quest that involved talking to No NPCs.  Instead these games no supplement those unique items with achievements which don’t really matter either way.  GW2 isn’t innovative, Its ambitious but that about it.   The idea of breaking the Holy Trinity is quite a good one, but the way it was executed was horrible.  The idea of level scaling was a good one, but in the game it was horrible.  Etc etc.  There so much in this game that sounds good on paper but really turns out to be a bad decision.  

For any one who was into the old school MMOs, the "Hard-core" crowd this review is an insult and a horrifying look into what is supposedly considered to be innovative in this genera. 

THIS TIMES 1,000,000

It is a complete insult.  Now we know that people prefer generic and stupid over thought provoking and complex.  Wonderful....another beautiful creation destroyed by the "Pop Culture"...

Then why don't one of you two, oh wise grandmasters of MMORPGs, give us an example so profoundly amazing, that everyone that played old-school MMOs would say, "YES! THAT is INNOVATION!".

Because i'm pretty sure opinions vary regardless of what time period you started playing.

Innovation has 1 definition and can be easily identified.  There is nothing subjective about my statement.  This game does not bring with it "innovation"....If I go and change the curtain on my window from ruffled to straight and short, does that mean I get a score of 10 for innovation??  Well, that's exactly what GW2 did, as well as follow in the footsteps of WOW by dumbing down the genre even more than it already was dumbed down.

That's the most ridiculous thing I've heard in a while..and that's saying something on here.  Completely changing the framework of how a character approaches quests in terms of I am the master of my domain I explore and as I explore I see that things are going on in the area I am at to which I have the choice of joining or not vs. The old Go here and collect 10 of these which by the way nearly EVERY MMO out there prior has done, is in fact, innovation.  You can sit there and debate the level of innovation all you want to but it's innovation just the same.  I didn't like Tera but their approach to combat in an MMO setting was innovative.

What you don't get to do is decide that something that was newly introduced or introduced in a way that hadn't been done before or was a fresh new look on an old idea doesn't fit into the definition of innovative simply because it doesn't meet your standard.

LOL...you're funny.  To think that you have more choice than in other themeparks as far as quest progression is concerned is completely false.

Also, something that has the same inner workings with a different outer shell is normally called a "second", "third", "fourth" edition when speaking of books with the same title, same innards and a slight variation.  I think I'll use this same thought process with your definition of "innovation"....

Originally posted by Eir_S

Originally posted by Randayn

Originally posted by Eir_S

Originally posted by Izik

Originally posted by ShakyMo

Izik:

This game isn't designed for you. I like gw2, but I can't bloody stand EQ, and I'm not that keen on wow.

 

Well considering both of those games created this genre, I think it's fair to compare them to GW2.

How can something that wasn't released until 2004 be credited with creating the genre?  It (WoW) didn't create anything, it popularized the genre.  This kind of quote is as bad as saying "WoW was the first MMO".

I agree....the game that really deserves a 10 for innovation is Anarchy Online.  It was the first to introduce many of the mechanics now over-used and abused by all themeparks....for example....instanced dungeons...

It makes me wish I'd played AO, but I wasn't into MMOs at the time really.  Hey, it's still going I think and maybe it'd run on this POS pc I'm on.  Anyway, I think the problem game reviewers potentially see in reasoning like yours is that AO was a huge innovator, so if it got a 10, that'd mean every game in between then and now would have had to innovate further and further, which would mean MMOs would get a much lower score these days because there's not much room left to innovate the standard systems.  I dunno..

Trust me, AO was awesome...the graphics are a bit hard to stomach these days though...lol

The point I'm trying to make is that if you put AO next to GW2 and run an innovation test, AO will be 100 and GW2 with be about 5-10.  So to give GW2 a 10 in innovation when it really has not brought anything new to the table (not even lack of trinity because Champions Online introduced that...as Im sure some others before it did) is a bit ridiculous.  I'd probably give GW2 a 6 for innovation (even though I wouldn't have a seperate score for it....it would be added into gameplay and other scores).  I'd give it a 6 for jump quests and multi-user mat nodes.  That's it though....nothing else was innovative.  just rehashed, repackaged things from other games.

Originally posted by romanator0

Originally posted by bcbully

You've posted this twice. It still makes no sense.

Reference to the song American pie, even though it has no real relation.... Bully seems to know what the song is about.

Originally posted by evolver1972

Originally posted by Yakamomoto

Originally posted by Randayn

Innovation has 1 definition and can be easily identified.  There is nothing subjective about my statement.  This game does not bring with it "innovation"....If I go and change the curtain on my window from ruffled to straight and short, does that mean I get a score of 10 for innovation??  Well, that's exactly what GW2 did, as well as follow in the footsteps of WOW by dumbing down the genre even more than it already was dumbed down.

 

Don´t worry, just take another MMO site off the credibility list, like I just did.

Innovation 10, woah this is a real kicker.

 

Thanks to this review, it´s good to know there will never be something else or better to expect from the MMO genre.

 

If GW2 is really the absolute "10" peak of innovation I guess it´s time to quit the genre alltogether and say goodbye to egg collecting, cow feeding and zergs. At the end I never liked Facebook games either.

By giving it a 10 for innovation he's not saying that's all the innovation any game is ever going to have from here on out.  He's saying the differences this particular game has over current games is way better than pretty much anything he has seen to this point.  That doesn't  mean a game won't come along in the future and be just as innovative as GW2 in a different way.

 

Besides, his overall score was 9.3.  That leaves room for improvement, I'd say.

 

But, if disagreeing with someone over how they rate a game makes you want to quit playing MMOs, I'll be glad I won't run into you in an MMO in the future.

the issue still remains that you cannot give a game a score for innovation unless they have actually innovated.  Jump quests and multi-user mat nodes....that's what they innovated.  Nothing else was a brand new idea brought to the forefront.  

Don't say DE's because they are still quests (some of the worst actually) and you still have to go somewhere (a hub) to get them, you just dont have to talk with anyone.  Don't say personal story....SWTOR anyone?  Don't say lack of trinity...I played Champions Online at launch and there was no trinity....it was a zerg/respawn fest much like GW2.  

So please tell me what they've brought to the table that is entirely new and innovative?  Please....

Originally posted by KingJiggly

Originally posted by romanator0

Originally posted by bcbully

You've posted this twice. It still makes no sense.

Reference to the song American pie, even though it has no real relation.... Bully seems to know what the song is about.

song is about "The Day The Music Died".. not sure what bcbully means but sure it's something along the lines "The day MMORPG.com Died" or something silly like that