Originally posted by pkpkpk

Originally posted by darkhalf357x

Originally posted by pkpkpk
GW2 is shit. Every modern MMO is shit. They are fundamentally flawed in a way that is irreconcilable with quality.  What makes me play a game? Its being a good game makes me play  it. I can name hundreds of good games off the top of my head. I don't need to analyze why they are good. In most cases, they are good because of technical limitations, which kept the cost and crowd small, and which reconciled them irrevocably with artistic graphics, and because of the crowd back then, which was different from what some identify with as a gamer in today's world. In fact, there is a greater problem with online games, and that is that somehow an old game is undesirable simply because it is old. What makes a good game? Being classic Everquest makes a good game. You can hardly talk about good or bad when people are playing games because they have 2s beside their names rather than 1s. What makes a good game? Unreal Tournament (Unreal DM actually, to keep more to the point) makes a good game. You want to talk about life on other planets, but you still don't know whether the earth is flat or round.

Thanks for your opinion.  This isnt about if you think GW2 is shit or not.  There are hundreds of threads arguing that pointless concept (everyone has a different opinion and entitled to it).

But obviously SOME enjoy GW2 and enjoy playing it.  So it must mean the game isnt shit to them.  Or are you saying because you believe its shit that everyone who enjoys it are enjoying shit?

I love EverQuest.  Have a level 26 Vah Shir Beastlord now. Enjoying every minute (of how it is now). Agree age shouldnt be equated with quality and is a common misconception.  OF course you can talk about good or bad regardless if it has a 2 or 1 or any other suffix.  At the end of the day its still a game that has mechanics to perform some type of activity.  The question is do you enjoy those mechanics and if not which ones do you prefer.

I have no idea of what your last sentence even means or what context it has in the question I asked.

Thanks,

 

I say I enjoy a good game. 'Mechanics' is meaningless. You say you have played Everquest, but you have not played Everquest. Play a warrior in a group on Project 1999. All you do is slash slowly with your weapon at a fixed interval for months of months of gameplay; there are no fancy abilities other than taunting. And yet there are times where if you mess up once in your routine you could bring down the ruin of an entire group or even guild. World of Warcraft has fancy abilities but no consequence, 'mechanics' but no challenge. These are ideals, not mechanics. Games made according to ideals are just made and everything accords. Games made according to mechanics are quibbled over on forums and always destined to fail. That is why I say I like good games; good games are made and everything accords. Bad games have 'mechanics' and everything fails. You can't separate things from the times. Thus all modern MMOs are shit.

Well, whatever I am doing in EverQuest when I log in - I am enjoying.  I dont need to play the inception of a game to enjoy what I am doing today. I like whatever enhancements they have done since 1999.  You say mechanics are meaningless yet you discuss them in the context of a warrior slashing slowly for a fixed interval for months and months.  Thats mechanics.  And as you have just shown, its not meaningless.  It actually has an impact if you like the game or not.

Those are not ideals.  ideals are the conception of something in its perfection. (i.e. a specific type of perspective, but a perspective none the less).  An better example of an ideal would be "Every gamer will have fun if they play this game"  

Games are made according to designs which can (and should) be driven by vision.  But I doubt developers sit around conceiving how to create the perfect game.  And best believe any games you like I will be able to identify its mechanics.  At its core its compiled code.

I hear what you are saying but your argument is flawed. Good is subjective and thus cannot be defined without giving reference to what you believe good to be.  I guarentee whatever game you consider as 'good' I can find people here who would vehemently disagree.  If you are going as far to say that people are wrong for not agreeing what you deem to be a good game, you really need to present a better reason why you consider your opinion above all others.

You cant separate things from the times?  What? At the very least you could have a bright future writing fortune cookie fortunes :-)  But seriously, you still havent provided a valid argument (or even a well understood opinion) on why you believe MMOs are shit.  I would go as far as to ask why are you even on this forum?  According to your logic all the MMOs we talk about are shit.  Whats to debate?