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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » Anet has to do something about teleporting exploits

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69 posts found
  TwoThreeFour

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/26/12
Posts: 2149

10/01/12 5:25:30 AM#21
Which reminds me: they are probably able to teleport freely inside dungeons as well.
  Purutzil

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/02/11
Posts: 2912

The Critical Hit Pretzel!

10/01/12 5:27:37 AM#22
One thing ANet failled horribly on was failsafes. They don't seem to do any checks to ensure stuff is working or whether someone is moving abnormally. This leads to quests being bugged forever rather then resetting themselves and in the case of bots, the ability to move around freely without a care in the world of being stopped.
  Scalpless

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/22/07
Posts: 1355

10/01/12 5:53:18 AM#23
Originally posted by Wendetta
Originally posted by Scalpless

In the betas, all movement was handled by the client. I guess some of that moved on to the full version. A bit stupid on their part, considering how often this stuff gets exploited.

And since it wasnt refuted by anyone else, I was ASKING the question as to whether its true. Read, next time.

And MO failed because of its client side detections (among other things), so no arguing that.

We don't know, which is why I wrote "I guess". ANet's response to movement speed hacks during the beta weekends was that movement was client based in beta, but would be server-based post-release. However, for a hack like this to be even possible, at least some movement-related things must be handled client side, probably to make combat smoother. I don't think all or most of it is, because that would be weird and amateurish.

Originally posted by Purutzil
One thing ANet failled horribly on was failsafes. They don't seem to do any checks to ensure stuff is working or whether someone is moving abnormally. This leads to quests being bugged forever rather then resetting themselves and in the case of bots, the ability to move around freely without a care in the world of being stopped.

Agreed.

  JimmyYO

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/13/11
Posts: 541

10/01/12 5:59:10 AM#24
No fail is worse then Diablo 3 using Client side system clock for it's online auctions, making gold duping mindlessly easy on a game that uses real life money. The economy in that game was destroyed from the first day on with that little mishap.
  Phry

Elite Member

Joined: 7/01/04
Posts: 5558

10/01/12 6:07:59 AM#25
Originally posted by JimmyYO
No fail is worse then Diablo 3 using Client side system clock for it's online auctions, making gold duping mindlessly easy on a game that uses real life money. The economy in that game was destroyed from the first day on with that little mishap.

which just highlights how dumb it is to use client side resources instead of server side, which would prevent these things from happening in the first place. Especially in a PVP orientated game, im pretty sure if CCP had done this kind of thing with Eve, it would be a dead game way before now, there isnt a future for client based MMO's, that much at least by now should have been obvious, because they always get hacked.

  User Deleted
10/01/12 6:41:07 AM#26
They should just put in a hack shield and monitor stuff. All that said B2P vs P2P, I loathed to be the one to say it but you get as good as you paid though it is rather amusing to find that P2P games have/had similar issues, remains to be seen for how long the exploitation goes on.
  Yamota

Elite Member

Joined: 10/05/03
Posts: 6705

Gaming should be about fun, not gender equality.

10/01/12 7:15:49 AM#27
Originally posted by Phry
Originally posted by JimmyYO
No fail is worse then Diablo 3 using Client side system clock for it's online auctions, making gold duping mindlessly easy on a game that uses real life money. The economy in that game was destroyed from the first day on with that little mishap.

which just highlights how dumb it is to use client side resources instead of server side, which would prevent these things from happening in the first place. Especially in a PVP orientated game, im pretty sure if CCP had done this kind of thing with Eve, it would be a dead game way before now, there isnt a future for client based MMO's, that much at least by now should have been obvious, because they always get hacked.

From our point of view it is stupid indeed but I imagine it costs alot less, mostly in being able to ofload their servers and put it on the client. And in a mostly B2P type of game it really does not matter because player retention is not all that important.

Not saying I agree with it, just saying why they probably designed it the way they did.

  DMKano

Elite Member

Joined: 6/17/11
Posts: 6476

 
OP  10/01/12 8:47:36 AM#28
Originally posted by Iselin

[mod edit]

 

 

Well your link is wrong -  your Rift link goes to SWTOR video.

So yeah show me one rift hacking video from like this year - hehe - all the Rift speed-hack videos are way old, before Trion put in new security measures - they have pretty sick in-game monitiring tools that would detect speed-hacking as they do their client positioning checks server side.

Again - no point in getting into a finger pointing match - GW2 is still fresh, but Anet has to fix this crap like YESTEDAY.

WvW, dungeons, gathering, the whole game is subject to teleporing hack exploits - FIX PLS!!

  outfctrl

Novice Member

Joined: 11/16/03
Posts: 3630

American by Birth
Biker by choice
Patriot forever

10/01/12 9:11:03 AM#29

Since this game is free to play, do you think they have the resources to implement all these security services that have been mentioned here?

All those other mmo's have a steady stream of money coming in from subscriptions.  GW2 doesn't.

  DMKano

Elite Member

Joined: 6/17/11
Posts: 6476

 
OP  10/01/12 9:21:03 AM#30
Originally posted by outfctrl

Since this game is free to play, do you think they have the resources to implement all these security services that have been mentioned here?

All those other mmo's have a steady stream of money coming in from subscriptions.  GW2 doesn't.

It's B2P - F2P means the client is free, to play is free everything is free - last time I checked I paid ~$70 (with tax) for GW2 - that is NOT free.

So they sold 2mil+ boxes - that's 120mil (I read that Anet gets $48 from every box sale) - so it's still a crap ton of money.

Now we don't know what the DEV cost of GW2 was - I am thinking 100-150mil, we don't know what the operational costs are to run the game (including employee salaries, data center cost, etc...) 

Add that all up - do they have enough money to code in some server-side checks? 

No clue - but it should be a huge priority for them, as right now the hacks are ruining the game.

 

Edit - I am going to make a guess that GW2 development cost around $150 million total, because NCSoft target sales were 3.1 million which at $48 per box comes out to $146mil - after that point I bet you every sale is profit.

 

  sfc1971

Novice Member

Joined: 10/05/08
Posts: 423

10/01/12 10:02:52 AM#31
Originally posted by Wendetta
Originally posted by CallsignVega
This game is client based, 

Wow! Are you serious? I thought only crappy "indie" modders like Starvault would make core features of an MMO client side. I had no clue that ANet screwed the same pooch.

Duh, I can't really believe anyone didn't know this. Where do you think subscription games spend those subscriptions? On expensive servers that have to be really fast since EVERYTHING has to go server side for calculation and feedback. GW2 saves on servers a lot by doing things client side, that is why the game is cheaper to run.

You get what you pay for. Same with GM's. GM's want paying and your 50 bucks is not going to stretch very far when it comes to paying enough people to watch all servers and all players 24/7.

Gold farming/bots etc are also a thing no MMO developer thinks about during development, see the evidence in every single MMO only adding an option to report a player specifically for gold spam AFTER launch. It is like every developer thinks, nah, gold spam? That won't happen to us. And then it does.

  sfc1971

Novice Member

Joined: 10/05/08
Posts: 423

10/01/12 10:16:43 AM#32
Originally posted by DMKano
Originally posted by outfctrl

Since this game is free to play, do you think they have the resources to implement all these security services that have been mentioned here?

All those other mmo's have a steady stream of money coming in from subscriptions.  GW2 doesn't.

 

 

Edit - I am going to make a guess that GW2 development cost around $150 million total, because NCSoft target sales were 3.1 million which at $48 per box comes out to $146mil - after that point I bet you every sale is profit.

 

Yeah, because servers don't need electricity, staff doesn't need salary. All costs of a MMO are the costs for initial development and that is it.

 

  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7688

10/01/12 10:23:45 AM#33
Originally posted by Scalpless

In the betas, all movement was handled by the client. I guess some of that moved on to the full version. A bit stupid on their part, considering how often this stuff gets exploited.

Another problem that would probably fix itself if people stopped buying gold.

From the mail I get it looks like it's a much better deal to buy from a gold farmer, like 10 times better. If buying gold is you thing (completely unacceptable in my book, Anet or farmer.)

 

Plus, lets not pretend that all the farmers are on hacked accounts, so why not buy the gold from a cheaper source in a game that promotes buying gold?

  Sentime

Novice Member

Joined: 5/10/06
Posts: 278

10/01/12 10:38:47 AM#34

Client side movement for real?!

Staying out of any competative PvP in this game till they get a clue.

  Scalpless

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/22/07
Posts: 1355

10/01/12 10:40:45 AM#35
Originally posted by DMKano
Originally posted by outfctrl

Since this game is free to play, do you think they have the resources to implement all these security services that have been mentioned here?

All those other mmo's have a steady stream of money coming in from subscriptions.  GW2 doesn't.

It's B2P - F2P means the client is free, to play is free everything is free - last time I checked I paid ~$70 (with tax) for GW2 - that is NOT free.

So they sold 2mil+ boxes - that's 120mil (I read that Anet gets $48 from every box sale) - so it's still a crap ton of money.

Now we don't know what the DEV cost of GW2 was - I am thinking 100-150mil, we don't know what the operational costs are to run the game (including employee salaries, data center cost, etc...) 

Add that all up - do they have enough money to code in some server-side checks? 

No clue - but it should be a huge priority for them, as right now the hacks are ruining the game.

 

Edit - I am going to make a guess that GW2 development cost around $150 million total, because NCSoft target sales were 3.1 million which at $48 per box comes out to $146mil - after that point I bet you every sale is profit.

That would mean GW2 is one of the most expensive games ever made. It's not. It almost certainly cost less than 100 mil. Most guesstimates I've read are around 50 mil, but I wouldn't dismiss a higher cost. Anyway, I'm sure they've got more than enough money and those "it's F2P, so there'll be no support" comments have always been hard to take seriously, considering GW1's updates. GW1 was a much smaller-budget title, too.

  DMKano

Elite Member

Joined: 6/17/11
Posts: 6476

 
OP  10/01/12 10:51:23 AM#36
Originally posted by Scalpless

That would mean GW2 is one of the most expensive games ever made. It's not. It almost certainly cost less than 100 mil. Most guesstimates I've read are around 50 mil, but I wouldn't dismiss a higher cost. Anyway, I'm sure they've got more than enough money and those "it's F2P, so there'll be no support" comments have always been hard to take seriously, considering GW1's updates. GW1 was a much smaller-budget title, too.

Again - I have no clue what the actual dev cost for GW2 was - most AAA MMORPGs fall in the 40mil + category, but Warhammer online was over 100mil, SWTOR was 250mil+ (at launch I hear that they were actually closer to 300mil) - so 150mil is not out of the realm of possibility.

Again I have no clue what the actual cost was - we'll probably never know.

None of that should matter as far as this discussion - they MUST do something about the teleporting hacks.

  Eletheryl

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/01/12
Posts: 154

10/01/12 10:54:33 AM#37
Originally posted by DMKano

We've seen bots teleport all over the place in youtube videos - tonight first time I've seen a player that was teleporting from node to node for insta gathering.

This dude was able to jump at ANY point in the zone instantly - a buddy of mine was on the far north of the zone - I was in the south - this joker manged to pop from south to north and back in less than 10s - there are NO TELEPORTS nearby.

I reported him - it's pretty disgusting that Anets server code has no checks for client side map point jumping. You'd think that it would be pretty easy to detect a client jumping across the entire zone without the use of teleports and back???

Damn bots!

 

GW2 could be a great game, sadly bots and hacks will kill it pretty fast, some servers pretty much have more bots than players atm. 

 

  botrytis

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 2565

10/01/12 10:56:31 AM#38
Originally posted by outfctrl

Since this game is free to play, do you think they have the resources to implement all these security services that have been mentioned here?

All those other mmo's have a steady stream of money coming in from subscriptions.  GW2 doesn't.

Very poor argument. In Rift, there are many hacks and bots as in WoW (in fact some of the original WoW hacks can still be used in MoP but people forgot about them). It is in all the company's interest to get rid of hacking, the problem being as they rachet up security, hackers will find a way around it. It is a moving target. It should still be dealt with.

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  aesperus

Elite Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 4852

10/01/12 10:57:02 AM#39
Originally posted by DMKano

We've seen bots teleport all over the place in youtube videos - tonight first time I've seen a player that was teleporting from node to node for insta gathering.

This dude was able to jump at ANY point in the zone instantly - a buddy of mine was on the far north of the zone - I was in the south - this joker manged to pop from south to north and back in less than 10s - there are NO TELEPORTS nearby.

I reported him - it's pretty disgusting that Anets server code has no checks for client side map point jumping. You'd think that it would be pretty easy to detect a client jumping across the entire zone without the use of teleports and back???

Damn bots!

They are working on it. I'll have to see if I can find the statement, but they are pooling the information they are gathering on botters / hackers and planning to deal w/ them all at once, via a series of large bannings.

The reason they are waiting to do this, is because hackers / botters can easily figure out what gave them away if you start banning them too quickly. By waiting a bit and dealing w/ them all at once, there's no derivable pattern for someone to look at and circumvent.

  halflife25

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/13/12
Posts: 787

10/01/12 10:59:21 AM#40
Originally posted by botrytis
Originally posted by outfctrl

Since this game is free to play, do you think they have the resources to implement all these security services that have been mentioned here?

All those other mmo's have a steady stream of money coming in from subscriptions.  GW2 doesn't.

Very poor argument. In Rift, there are many hacks and bots as in WoW (in fact some of the original WoW hacks can still be used in MoP but people forgot about them). It is in all the company's interest to get rid of hacking, the problem being as they rachet up security, hackers will find a way around it. It is a moving target. It should still be dealt with.

Good you give us some links to some information regarding these 'many' hacks and bots? i haven't read or heard about it. You are the first person to say that RIFT has many hacks and bots.

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