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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Auction House: Death of Community

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162 posts found
  Grixxitt

Novice Member

Joined: 5/18/12
Posts: 556

10/01/12 9:46:07 AM#21

Regarding the OP, you really need a reason to get rid of the AH. If items don't degrade and aren't craftable then there's really no reason NOT to have an auction house. The items in question will either be hoarded, given away, or sold as vendor trash anyway.

You could never get rid of an AH in a mainstream themepark in the same way that you will never get rid of fast food in a suburb, nor should you. It just fits the genre

The above is my personal opinion. Anyone displaying a view contrary to my opinion is obviously WRONG and should STHU. (neener neener)

-The MMO Forum Community

  gaeanprayer

Novice Member

Joined: 8/06/08
Posts: 2360

10/01/12 9:47:28 AM#22
If you consider "WTS/B" spam a community environment, I'm glad it's gone.

"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."

  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12278

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, Project Gorgon, and Combat Arms

10/01/12 10:00:15 AM#23
Originally posted by Grixxitt

You could never get rid of an AH in a mainstream themepark in the same way that you will never get rid of fast food in a suburb, nor should you. It just fits the genre

The association of mainstream themepark and auction house is incorrect. It is static items databases that makes the AH useful. While static items are common to most themepark-focused MMOs, they are not specific to them. As the craftable content becomes more diverse or dynamic, the AH system becomes less useful as a trade center.

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  Aelious

Elite Member

Joined: 9/27/11
Posts: 2437

World > Quest Progression

10/01/12 10:55:33 AM#24
In order to include everyone to a degree I could see a system where having an auction house and a barter system could work. Place higher auction house fees while at the same time offering areas in cities to peddle your wares similar to EQ for free.

I think a big part of this is crafters and I think having drops and rewards more resource based would be fantastic. It would create a codependency which sounds bad but I think is a great thing for an MMORPG.
  BTrayaL

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/17/08
Posts: 566

10/01/12 11:00:42 AM#25
I have to agree, Auction Houses are bad for community. Very very comfortable, but bad.

  Aelious

Elite Member

Joined: 9/27/11
Posts: 2437

World > Quest Progression

10/01/12 11:10:51 AM#26
And by "more resource based" I mean a 25/75 split roughly. I could see bigger bosses having powerful items either causing them to be bosses or able ingesting someone with a powerful weapon. Sentient enemies able to wield basic weapons such as goblins or undead would make sense.
  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19811

10/01/12 12:08:27 PM#27

I won't play a MMO without a AH. It is so inefficient to barter and chat. If i want to chat, i go to a chat room. AH is great in finding the item i want, and selling those i do not.

 

  fenistil

Novice Member

Joined: 9/22/11
Posts: 3016

10/01/12 12:19:40 PM#28
Originally posted by nariusseldon

I won't play a MMO without a AH. It is so inefficient to barter and chat. If i want to chat, i go to a chat room. AH is great in finding the item i want, and selling those i do not.

 

That's perfectly fine.  Times of  'one mmorpg to rule (almost)all players'  are finished. 

  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

10/01/12 12:33:06 PM#29
Originally posted by BTrayaL
I have to agree, Auction Houses are bad for community. Very very comfortable, but bad.

But they make an exquisite mini-game. 

My three answers to the 'what to do with capped/bored people' has always 'raid, pvp, or strive for world economic domination'.

 

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  fenistil

Novice Member

Joined: 9/22/11
Posts: 3016

10/01/12 12:47:50 PM#30
Originally posted by Icewhite
Originally posted by BTrayaL
I have to agree, Auction Houses are bad for community. Very very comfortable, but bad.

But they make an exquisite mini-game. 

My three answers to the 'what to do with capped/bored people' has always 'raid, pvp, or strive for world economic domination'.

 

Economy "mini-game" in games with good crafting and good player shop system (UO, SWG) was much more interesting than doing it with AH.    Also because it was not so mini...

KInda why I miss it so much.

  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 19101

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

10/01/12 12:58:46 PM#31
Originally posted by Myrdynn

I have long been thinking of posting this, finally getting a little time to do so.  While playing some games recently, TSW, GW2, SWtor, TERA, etc over the last year, it has dawned on me that the biggest community killer is the Auction House.  Recently games (TSW and GW2) launched without a proper AH, and until they were put in place, people actually talked in the channels, making deals, helping people, selling mats etc.  I actually made a couple acquaintances that were heavy crafters, who just were after all the supplies they could get their hands on, and I was willing to help em out.  It was a good relationship.  Then the AH was fixed, and since then I havent even talked to a single person in game.  Before you say, well I should try making friends, there really is nothing in either TSW or GW2 that having friends makes beneficial.  I dont need them to do anything in game, I dont need them to craft anything for me, etc.

Now long ago, the games we played didnt have Auction Houses, and they were very strong communities.  Everyone on a server knew that if you wanted a Ubersword of Giant Slaying, that BobJohnson was the one that could craft it the best, or you could at least ask around and see if someone could hook you up.  This built community, numerous times, a conversation would go something like.  Hey I hear you can make me "item X', sure I can, but the mats are really tough to come by.  But why dont we get a group together and go out on a hunting party to find them.  You get your mats, you help me skill up one of my crafting skills, its a win/win.  Friendships were formed, alliances were forged, etc.

Unfortunately with the have it all now crowd that play MMO's Auction Houses are an evil necessity.  You collect your mats, sell them on the AH for X currency, then search for the item you want and bam, you got it, very short time, very EZ.  But during this time, you have no interaction with another player whatsoever, hell you dont even know who made you your item.  Items used to be imprinted with crafters as well, so that when someone says hey where did you get that sword you could inspect it and it would say made by "player X".

Anyways, I know I am going to likely be in the minority, but its something I have been thinking of for some time.  I think a happy medium might be a game where an Auction House isnt really an AH, but a Job listing, for example you want "Sword X" you search the AH database of "who" can craft it, and it will give you a list with (online/offline) status's, where you then actually need to interact with a player, It might not be all that much different but at least its a step back in the right direction

Thoughts?

Let me guess, former SWG player and enjoyed it's crafting/gathering/selling system?

If so, you were damaged by that experience and enjoyed somethnig that isn' tlikely to return in modern MMO's. You will never be happy again. 

But no, I recall playing L1 and it had no auction house, we shouted our sales, and it was way too painful to have to stand in some centralized location waiting for someone to bit for your speel.  Maybe in SWG it worked better, but in most other games replacing that was a blessing, and I for one wouldn't want to go back.

Lineage 2 made it a bit better with private stores, but you had to stay logged in 24/7 so your store could stay up when you were afk. (or have a market alt, which many did)

 

 

Arrogant, Condescending, Dismissive, Elitist, you speak as if these are bad things?
Kyleran - Bitter Vet ™ since 2006
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  Leoghan

Novice Member

Joined: 12/27/03
Posts: 611

10/01/12 1:32:29 PM#32

Now bear with me here, my memories of SWG are muddled given that it had oh so many forms over its lifetime and I poked my head in for most of them. 

If I recally SWG launched with a terminal system that allowed players to place items for sale on a sort of aution house style. You could search for items you wanted and you had to travel to a terminal in the city it was put up for sale at to retireve the purchased item.

It also allowed crafters to place vendors in their homes/buildings to sell good, these vendors could even be searched via the ingame map and their locations were clearly indicated by way points. 

At one point I know that SWG even allowed you to search for items sold at player vendors by using the auction house terminals, you still had to travel to the vendor's shop, but you could one search at one terminal to find what you were looking for and get a waypoint to the shop. 

Personally I thought the above was the best system. It allowed me to form relationships with crafters, by going to their shops seeing (usually on display or through vendor NPC text prompts) what they could craft and figuring out if these items, their quality and such fit my needs. 

It probably will never be seen in a game again because it requires many things that games are not doing. It requires crafted items to be as good or better than drops. It requires Housing (something many games seem to be getting away from) and it requires a crafting system that is highly customizable. You see the main reason to develop a relationship with the crafter in a game like SWG was because your skills were often such that you needed gear was custom made to fit them, and to add to that all of the clothing/armor was highly customizable for colors, so you could specify the exact colors you wanted items to be. 

My point is that in SWG the auction house system actually severed to deepen community ties rather than isolate the community. I think the problem is not the convenience, but rather that design of the convenience. 

  User Deleted
10/01/12 1:36:45 PM#33
Originally posted by gaeanprayer
If you consider "WTS/B" spam a community environment, I'm glad it's gone.

 

I agree

  rivetman13

Novice Member

Joined: 5/29/08
Posts: 38

10/01/12 1:42:36 PM#34

SWG was the best. On my server everyone knew if you wanted things made, you asked Sixx (Originally BrennenWear). I had it all, got it all and made nearly everything craftble.

Customizing stuff for people kept me busier than anything in game as far as adventuring, I spent weeks, months never even needing or wanting to go kill stuff for exp.

My shops were second to none, I miss it, its too bad we wont see this ever again. Crafting can be as good or better than any adventuring to some. I was one of those, i see the point of the OP but not sure I agree that AH killed the community. Lots in the post I do agree with, however.

Also agree that WTS/B spam sux hehe

 

  fenistil

Novice Member

Joined: 9/22/11
Posts: 3016

10/01/12 1:43:02 PM#35
Originally posted by Kyleran

Lineage 2 made it a bit better with private stores, but you had to stay logged in 24/7 so your store could stay up when you were afk. (or have a market alt, which many did)

 

 

Never understood that in L2.    Ultima Online (and think SWG too) had unkillable NPC for rent that were placeable only near your house and they cared of sales. You also had limit of one NPC to not spam them obviously.   That like it looked like when I was still playing.        Obviously it was working all the time when you was afk and you could pay 'rent' for NPC for significant time ahead so you could even be afk for loooong time.  + you could make it so it would buy items you listed as well for price you listed.      So it was quite common that I was going to buy in example an armor from player shop of armorsmith I knew and I was selling him through his shop some weapon or resource he needed. 

Obviously that system can be also improved alot.

 

Never understood why L2 had so bad player shop system.

  Lazzaro

Novice Member

Joined: 10/01/04
Posts: 392

Anything easy ain''t worth a damn.

10/01/12 1:54:20 PM#36

One of the many thing I loved in SWG was driving around with my speeder from vendor to vendor and finding awesome stuff.

  User Deleted
10/01/12 2:58:22 PM#37
Originally posted by Lazzaro

One of the many thing I loved in SWG was driving around with my speeder from vendor to vendor and finding awesome stuff.

 

Maybe it's because I didn't play SWG but...that sounds like the most boring activity ever. (note: I also hate shopping IRL...)

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19811

10/01/12 3:33:26 PM#38
Originally posted by Psychow
Originally posted by Lazzaro

One of the many thing I loved in SWG was driving around with my speeder from vendor to vendor and finding awesome stuff.

 

Maybe it's because I didn't play SWG but...that sounds like the most boring activity ever. (note: I also hate shopping IRL...)

Very much so. In fact, i want a AH with good searching & pricing functions. D3 was slammed in the beginning because of the cumbersome AH interface. AH needs to be efficient, and let people find that sword they want fast.

 

  Vynt

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/19/04
Posts: 596

10/01/12 3:58:37 PM#39

I didn't mind the wheeling and dealing done in EQ, but when they put in the bazaar, it was greatly appreciated lol. I kind of liked the bazaar better than the auction house because there was still some negotiating that could go on. You had to stay logged in to show your wares. That helped sometimes if say 10 people had a superb item to sell, but all weren't on at the same time, it was a bit more interesting. Instead of always having 10 of the same item being undercut, values were kept higher since only 2 or 3 were being sold. Also since they had to be on, if they weren't afk, you could /tell them and work out a deal, maybe offer less, or some trades.

When I was playing the progression server not long ago, before we got to the bazaar being put in, we /auction stuff and it worked ok, but so much smoother with bazaar and there was still interaction. Made quite a few deals after searching the bazaar.

Also as said before, even older games with auction houses didn't hamper socialization in the community. It is moreso the style of gameplay that has come out. Even in current games I still see people peddling their wares, and if it is a good price, I'll buy.

I do think people would be more likely to peddle their wares if crafting was actually useful. I remember in daoc, when buying armor, you really wanted to get that 99% quality, or if lucky 100% quality. People aren't just going to use the AH to see that since it took many tries to get that particular quality. Probably would see something like "Making full set master quality (100%) dragonscale armor PST.

The AH would be good for those lesser quality items made of the 95-98% that people don't care if they don't maximize to the fullest. Then you have your spellcrafters that you need to add the stats the way you want them on each piece. Can't do that in AH, need to interact. Then your alchemist to add on effects, procs, some graphics (glowies).

Games just need a reason to have people interact where not everything can be done on the AH, but overall, don't think it really kills communities.

  defector1968

Novice Member

Joined: 6/16/10
Posts: 400

Real Animal lovers are ONLY the vegetarians

10/01/12 4:04:18 PM#40

can u plz stop saying that the SWG and SWTOR and other similar games have AH?

since the prices are fixed, arent AHs. Cuz simply they dont have auction ability

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