Originally posted by NorseGod

Originally posted by Enigmatus

Originally posted by NorseGod

Originally posted by Enigmatus

Originally posted by NorseGod

You're talking about 1st generation MMO players that see themeparks for what they are. Limited, therefore inferior. The same small group of players that were pushed out like last night's Mexican dinner in favor of millions of  "everyone is a winner" brats.

That kind of attitude, and you wonder why people are so hostile to sandbox MMO players.

Both sandbox and themepark have different strengths and weaknesses, but that does not make one superior or inferior to the other; it just means they're different. Maybe if you'd stop acting like everyone who doesn't subscribe to the "Themepark is for brainless degenerates, the only true MMO is sandbox" school of thought is a loser or not a true MMO gamer, then maybe we'd be wiling to take you more seriously.

Oh, you must think I'm asking you for your damn permission for a sandbox MMO, how cute.

Wasn't doing that, just saying you should consider not being a dick to those who like Themepark MMOs.

You locusts hop from game to game and beta to beta, leaving every one of them in ruins before a game even launches. Then after launch, you whine for more dumb people mechanics, get what you want, and then hop to the next game, leaving everyone else with a pile of crap for simpletons.

That's like you asking to use my truck for the night, decide you would rather have a convertable, cut off the roof of my truck. You stand there, look at it, then turn around and hand me back my keys. "Meh, I think I'll ride my bicycle instead".

I seriously cannot believe that having the balls to make a proper sandbox and putting their foot down to themepark-hoppers is too much to ask.

Excuse me if I don't shower you with happy thoughts.

 

It really looks like someone needs to be showered in happy thoughts. here is the thing: most gamers(dare I make a generalization) want to find that one game that really engages them; unfortunately many times (as I see it) what they find is the same thing re-hashed over and over. This is not a problem exclusive to MMORPG this is something infecting the entire gaming industry. Gone are the days where developers would try something new and different just for the sake of something different. Right now the entire gaming industry is going through a "molting phase" for lack of a better term and only time will tell if it turns out to be a butterfly or a moth.

Originally posted by Leoghan

Originally posted by NorseGod

Originally posted by Presbytier

Originally posted by NorseGod

Originally posted by Enigmatus

Originally posted by NorseGod

There are over 8 billion people in the world i think it is mighty big enough for fans of both types of games, and even the hybrid types like myself.

Yet, a group of 300K-400K is a threat to the millions.

Where do you get that sandboxers are a threat? The reality is that sandboxers (and to an extant I consider myself one) are not unified enough to promise a company that solid 300-400K. Look at Darkfall, a game I'd never touch because it is a sandbox, but it is full loot pvp. Not my kind of game, though I wish those who enjoy it well and I hope they get more games like it. Then you have a game like SWG at launch which in many ways was a crafters dream, it had other sandbox elements that appealed highly to rpers as well, but the main complaints was "where is the game" there wasn't much to do not even a good system in place for PvP. Then there are games like ArchAge, which simply turn off Western MMOers because of they are Asian developed and many of those have lost something in translation, both literally and figuratively. 

 

MMO developers generally want to see as much RoI on their money as possible, so they try to develop games that will draw in a wider cross-section. Sandboxers are not a threat, the hardcore ones are simply too few for developers to invest money in capturing their hearts. 

I've been saying all along that sandboxes are not a threat to the millions of themepark-hoppers and their monthly themepark releases. You don't need to convince me of this.

Nobody that is asking for a properly funded and supported sandbox is delusioned with the hopes of millions of players. Search all the threads on this topic. None of us have stated that. It's the others that bring out the torches each time.

EQ had 450K players. It was a damn good MMORPG until it started competing for millions. SWG was too, until it started competing for millions. EVE continues to do well without approval of the masses. I love CCP stance of "We'll never change for your kind, gtfo".

How many "MMOs" are listed on this site? How many of those would complain if they had 450K players? 2/3rds? More? I bet Bioware wished they had 450K loyal and dedicated players. Remember that company?

Originally posted by Enigmatus

Originally posted by NorseGod

 

Where did I ever say I wanted any of that? I was only stating that you could stand to be less of an ass to people who like Themepark MMOs, and you act like I just shot your dog and throw all of these insults and BS at my face. Secondly, I'm not a locust, and I never have been. Also I've never used the official forums of ANY MMO.

Ok then. So, nothing I have said applies to you. I never stated your name. Um, why are you even talking to me?

Originally posted by Presbytier

Originally posted by NorseGod

Originally posted by Enigmatus

Originally posted by NorseGod

Originally posted by Enigmatus

Originally posted by NorseGod

You're talking about 1st generation MMO players that see themeparks for what they are. Limited, therefore inferior. The same small group of players that were pushed out like last night's Mexican dinner in favor of millions of  "everyone is a winner" brats.

That kind of attitude, and you wonder why people are so hostile to sandbox MMO players.

Both sandbox and themepark have different strengths and weaknesses, but that does not make one superior or inferior to the other; it just means they're different. Maybe if you'd stop acting like everyone who doesn't subscribe to the "Themepark is for brainless degenerates, the only true MMO is sandbox" school of thought is a loser or not a true MMO gamer, then maybe we'd be wiling to take you more seriously.

Oh, you must think I'm asking you for your damn permission for a sandbox MMO, how cute.

Wasn't doing that, just saying you should consider not being a dick to those who like Themepark MMOs.

You locusts hop from game to game and beta to beta, leaving every one of them in ruins before a game even launches. Then after launch, you whine for more dumb people mechanics, get what you want, and then hop to the next game, leaving everyone else with a pile of crap for simpletons.

That's like you asking to use my truck for the night, decide you would rather have a convertable, cut off the roof of my truck. You stand there, look at it, then turn around and hand me back my keys. "Meh, I think I'll ride my bicycle instead".

I seriously cannot believe that having the balls to make a proper sandbox and putting their foot down to themepark-hoppers is too much to ask.

Excuse me if I don't shower you with happy thoughts.

 

It really looks like someone needs to be showered in happy thoughts. here is the thing: most gamers(dare I make a generalization) want to find that one game that really engages them; unfortunately many times (as I see it) what they find is the same thing re-hashed over and over. This is not a problem exclusive to MMORPG this is something infecting the entire gaming industry. Gone are the days where developers would try something new and different just for the sake of something different. Right now the entire gaming industry is going through a "molting phase" for lack of a better term and only time will tell if it turns out to be a butterfly or a moth.

I've often looked at it a little differently. Gaming and MMO's more recently are going through a commercialization process. Think of hamburgers. Their origins now shrouded in mystery, but once they were the provence of local mom and pop type establishments (I think of MUDs in this respect) then came the car hops and burger joints that tried to bring in a larger crowd (think UO, EQ).

Then came McDonalds and the like, now in todays culutre we frown on McDonalds and for good reason, but when they first started expanding and dotting the American landscape they offered something that was missing from the previous burger experience - a dependable burger. You could count on McDonalds burgers to have a certain standard and quality, not something that could be said for every burger joint out there at the time and this made the burger a house hold name. This is what WoW did, for better or worse (I tend to think a little of both). 

Now the growth and dominance of McDonalds has come to produce a lower quality product, it has been homogenized to the point of no longer satisfying most burger enthusiasts tastes. Furthermore it has sparked many an imitator, some that some people argue do it better than McDonalds (taste is always subjective). This too is WoW, it is so large and so successful, that it can lower that standards of its quality because there is a quality in and of itself to "over a billion server". 

Now McDonalds didn't kill the burger and the commercialization and widespread distribution of chain burger joints didn't mean that it was the end of good mom and pop joints, it thinned the herd no doubt, but many survived or new ones sprung up. MMO's though not as ubiquitous as burgers are going through a similar process, we may even see crazy new things like avacodos on our MMO's but will still see good and bad ones come and go. 

Originally posted by NorseGod

Originally posted by Enigmatus

Originally posted by NorseGod

 

Where did I ever say I wanted any of that? I was only stating that you could stand to be less of an ass to people who like Themepark MMOs, and you act like I just shot your dog and throw all of these insults and BS at my face. Secondly, I'm not a locust, and I never have been. Also I've never used the official forums of ANY MMO.

Ok then. So, nothing I have said applies to you. I never stated your name. Um, why are you even talking to me?

Well you were responding to my posts, thus I assumed you were talking about me in addition to those I was referring to in my posts.

Originally posted by Lazzaro

No innovation, almost every BIG MMO wants to copy WOW for the cash money.

And then Arena Net tries something different with GW2 and you guys complain because it's now too different from WoW.

Originally posted by Leoghan

Originally posted by Presbytier

Originally posted by NorseGod

Originally posted by Enigmatus

Originally posted by NorseGod

Originally posted by Enigmatus

Originally posted by NorseGod

I've often looked at it a little differently. Gaming and MMO's more recently are going through a commercialization process. Think of hamburgers. Their origins now shrouded in mystery, but once they were the provence of local mom and pop type establishments (I think of MUDs in this respect) then came the car hops and burger joints that tried to bring in a larger crowd (think UO, EQ).

Then came McDonalds and the like, now in todays culutre we frown on McDonalds and for good reason, but when they first started expanding and dotting the American landscape they offered something that was missing from the previous burger experience - a dependable burger. You could count on McDonalds burgers to have a certain standard and quality, not something that could be said for every burger joint out there at the time and this made the burger a house hold name. This is what WoW did, for better or worse (I tend to think a little of both). 

Now the growth and dominance of McDonalds has come to produce a lower quality product, it has been homogenized to the point of no longer satisfying most burger enthusiasts tastes. Furthermore it has sparked many an imitator, some that some people argue do it better than McDonalds (taste is always subjective). This too is WoW, it is so large and so successful, that it can lower that standards of its quality because there is a quality in and of itself to "over a billion server". 

Now McDonalds didn't kill the burger and the commercialization and widespread distribution of chain burger joints didn't mean that it was the end of good mom and pop joints, it thinned the herd no doubt, but many survived or new ones sprung up. MMO's though not as ubiquitous as burgers are going through a similar process, we may even see crazy new things like avacodos on our MMO's but will still see good and bad ones come and go. 

Not to derail your good post, but I have to tell you.

While I was reading that, I was thinking, "but I hate McDonalds and the people that eat there. I just want 1 Rubios in my city."

Now I'm hungry for fish tacos and can't stop thinking about it. Too bad the nearest Rubios is a 6 hour flight away.

Curse you, sir!

Every few months, for years, the same themepark is released with a different skin. That's great. Good for the themepark-hoppers. But, why is it too much to ask for a properly funded and supported sandbox to come out every once in awhile?

Sandboxes don't even need to come out every other month like they HAVE TO with themeparks. Sandboxes required years of play time to develope your character. A character that was actually important than some people's families (Evercrack, Everquest Widows, etc.).

Yes, I know, profits. But you know, there was a time when games were made by gamers. There was a time when stock prices were not quoted on gaming sites. Those days also happen to be the time when people played the same game for years because they loved playing the game that much.

 

tottaly agree!

My opinion: the future of MMOs lies with player-created content using developer-made tools.

Development studios would be tasked with making the tools easy for entry-level, but also have advanced screens for hooking those who want to be fully involved.

A second challenge I'd foresee is making sure that all of the content worked seamlessly.

Probably a lot more, but I'll just keep my answer simple and short.

i dont know about the others here, but ive all but given up on mmo games.  

i started out playing eq1, right around the time when people said it began its decline, around luclin.  i didnt expect much, but man, did i ever fall in love with the game.  i played it on a crappy system, with a 56k modem.  laggy as all crap, but i didnt care.  why?  because i wasnt as picky back then.  we learn as we get older and more experienced, and we learn the things that we like, and dont like.  there were quite a few things about eq1 that i loved, but then, there were some things i didnt like as well.  

wow enters the arena.  i played from beta and felt that it really took away all that i didnt like about eq1, but kept pretty much everything that i did like.  i played wow too much for me to even admit out loud lol.  over time, even the things that wow brought to the field werent quite enough for me...and many others.  

now you have many veteran mmo players, like me, who are hopping from game to game looking for the next big thing, but im starting to think its never going to happen.  if it does, it wont be something that people can predict.  

here are some things id like to see in a game:

1) never ending character progression.  a system like the AA points in eq1 would be great.  just a reason to do something with your max level toon besides the usual "end game" content that most mmo games provide.  

2) a nice variety of race and class selection.  this is something where i feel the older games really excelled and the newer games have failed.  nowadays, there are really only 3 character archetypes used in mmo games.  tank, healer, dps.  while games usually have multiple classes within a given archetype, they essentially play the same.  this is something id like to see done away with.  

3) id like to see characters to be able to do unique things outside of combat.  remember the days of hunting down a cleric for a rez in eq1?  or finding an enchanter for his KEI buff?  not only does this create a purpose for a character besides what they bring to a battle, it creates a hub to find other players, and helps develop a sense of community.  its also really cool to be useful for something to other players.  

4) how about a change from the grind to level then raid endgame system that most games use?  just listen to the players talk in game.  i hear people in games like wow about how the game doesnt even begin until you hit max level.  why is that?  because those players dont enjoy the leveling and progression process so much, they enjoy the raiding and gear grind.  then you have players like me, who enjoy the leveling and progression, but dont really enjoy the riading and gear grind so much.  that makes me ask, why does a game change at max level?  id like to see a game stay the same throughout.  this touches on my earlier mention of constant progression, even at max level.  id also like to see some raiding at the lower levels too.  

well, there it is.  i know this is a post about the future of gaming, and not suggestions, but this is the future of gaming id LIKE to see.  do i expect to see any of these things?  not really.  i expect to see games that are more and more focused on combat, with fast progression, and little to do once you reach max level.  i guy can dream though, right?

Originally posted by JWTuna

Bieng optimistic, a freak tidal wave might crush the venue of whichever the next big gaming event is, decimating the current breed of mmo designers and clearing the way for open-minded independant ventures making clever, niche games and concepts, based on the opinions of gamers. 

 

Otherwise, the future is bleak indeed. mmo's will continue to be pitched to the lowest common denominator to max revenue, which will mean lower and lower standards. WoW, GW2, Tera, etc...are all designed to attract players to mmos, who shouldnt really be playing mmos. So, as a basic rule the only changes made to mmo structure will be to make playing it simpler and easier. Goodbye charator development and open worlders, because choice and exploration is 'bad'. Hello god mode and auto-matched instances.  

 

Any ideas that make a game more complex or challenging will be junked. Developing the sandbox element would be great, but this clearly falls under 'making a game more complex'. Wizardry will struggle because permadeath is mentally shattering to maintream audiences. DFUW will struggle, just as DF did, because pvp looting (well, pvp of anykind really) is too scary. And so on, and so forth. 

 

I hate to say it, but GW2 is the future of MMOs. 

Look at Vanguard: Saga of Heroes.

I am currently subbed to it.  I did the beta as well and left because it was going bad with the suits rushing it along and the dev's not listening to the players testing it....but I have played many other MMORPG's. EQ was my first...I'm starting with this  so you see I am not being a fanboy about Vanguard...but personally? And from my own opinion? Vanguard is the best true MMORPG atm.

HUGE world, non-instanced, TONS of quests, challenging (I have died more times in a couple of months in Vanguard than I have in the last 5 I have played combined), COMMUNITY (Despite being small)....

Sadly....because of what is mentioned in this quoted section, it was botched and nearly forgotten from being rushed out the door. It is still bug ridden, and due to an older game engine pretty laggy, but since they have gone F2P to lvl 20, and added a cash shop...it is starting to get some love with fixes. Slowly, but it's happening. But even despite these issues, I still have been enjoying it far more ...and have once again been sucked into long hours of playtime..more so than any of the current ones on the market.

The stuff now I personally wouldn't call MMORPG's. More glorified console games that happen to have other people running around like  NPC's.

Originally posted by IG-88

One of todays MMO´s seems to be the notion of one-fits-all. But the future of MMO´s i believe lies in games targeting a certain playstyle rather than trying to please all and every players preferences.

I think we see more PvP-only, PvE-only etc.

Today, all games try cater to all playstyles, which really is impossible.

 

Shouldn't MMORPG try to create all sorts of playstyle's??

That was what we had. Instead....Today's MMO seems to be limiting itself by providing merly combat oriented gameplay instead of cattering towards different type of gameplay's mixing them up in a MMORPG.

We already have other genre's of gaming that provide PVP or PVE only game experiance's, not sure why someone would want that same experiance from a MMORPG.

Originally posted by Reklaw

Originally posted by IG-88

One of todays MMO´s seems to be the notion of one-fits-all. But the future of MMO´s i believe lies in games targeting a certain playstyle rather than trying to please all and every players preferences.

I think we see more PvP-only, PvE-only etc.

Today, all games try cater to all playstyles, which really is impossible.

 

Shouldn't MMORPG try to create all sorts of playstyle's??

That was what we had. Instead....Today's MMO seems to be limiting itself by providing merly combat oriented gameplay instead of cattering towards different type of gameplay's mixing them up in a MMORPG.

We already have other genre's of gaming that provide PVP or PVE only game experiance's, not sure why someone would want that same experiance from a MMORPG.

This is why I am hoping that FFXIV: A Realm Reborn is a success. Not only does it have one of the most robust crafting systems of any game in a long time it also boasts of actually needing that carpenter for certain improvements on your player made house.

Originally posted by Asm0deus
If Wow would finaly roll over and die like it should we might see some changes...

WoW existing is not the problem. Developers are free to make whatever type games they want to. People need to get beyond the notion that WoW is a god that makes other people do things. It's a game. It can't stop other people from producing what they want and it doesn't sneak into peoples homes and force them to subscribe.

With a lot of other people here, I too have given up on MMORPGs.  My main interest in this site is in the hope - possibly vain - that a new and dynamic genre rises from the MMO ruins.

At one point, I had a strong interest in MMOs, which came primarily from two factors:  deep immersion, and a sense of accomplishment.

Immersion versus Convenience

A lot of things have killed the immersion over the years - not least of all the unwillingness of MMORPG players to, you know, RP - but the most glaring in my eyes is the insidious onset of convenience.  The problem is, convenience kills immersion.  Instant travel is bad enough, but the real death of the open-world MMORPG has been the dungeon queue system.  Yes, it's convenient, it saves a lot of time.  A "YOU WIN, GAME OVER, CONGRATULATIONS!" screen with a screenshot of your character in T199 armor would save even more time.  But it would kill the game, and the sense of enjoyment and accomplishment that used to come from traveling to a distant location, taking on a challenge, and coming out victorious.

I realize no one wants to go back to twenty minute travel times to dungeons, myself included.  But I would really like to go back to when it actually made sense to spend time in the open game world.  (Can we at least go back to open game worlds?)  Developers need to figure out how to balance that - that is why, presumably, we pay them the big bucks.

Accomplishment and the Hampster Wheel

I used to find the sense of accomplishment in-game very satisfying.  And then came the expansion.  And the next one, and the next one.  And then I realized, all my accomplishments would mean next to nothing in a few months, and so I gave up trying.

The problem is, sooner or later gamers figure out that the conventional MMORPG model is a hampster wheel.  You just run around, and around, and around, and don't really go anywhere.  For a short time the illusion can be maintained, but inevitably, it wears off.

What players need is accomplishment based on something other than grinding out levels and/or dungeon raids.  That, I think, is why PvP arena games like League of Legends are taking off.  Competitive PvP isn't something you just grind out and gets replaced with the next expansion; it's a real accomplishment to go up on the rankings.  It's also why conventional RPGs haven't gone out of style; players love the real accomplishment of finishing a long and difficult story line.

MMORPGs may have a future.  But if so, it would involve . . .

Less Of:

• Zoned content
• Repetitive content
• Level cap/max gear being raised/outdated every six to twelve months
• Scripted encounters
• Single-player content

• Player interaction
• Open world content
• Events and other unrepeated content
• Player actions impacting the world
• Game expansion in terms of breadth (more classes, more skills, greater variety in gear, etc.) rather than just level cap +5, weapon DPS +10
• Dynamic encounters
• Multi-player content

Originally posted by Gudrunix

With a lot of other people here, I too have given up on MMORPGs.  My main interest in this site is in the hope - possibly vain - that a new and dynamic genre rises from the MMO ruins.

At one point, I had a strong interest in MMOs, which came primarily from two factors:  deep immersion, and a sense of accomplishment.

Immersion versus Convenience

A lot of things have killed the immersion over the years - not least of all the unwillingness of MMORPG players to, you know, RP - but the most glaring in my eyes is the insidious onset of convenience.  The problem is, convenience kills immersion.  Instant travel is bad enough, but the real death of the open-world MMORPG has been the dungeon queue system.  Yes, it's convenient, it saves a lot of time.  A "YOU WIN, GAME OVER, CONGRATULATIONS!" screen with a screenshot of your character in T199 armor would save even more time.  But it would kill the game, and the sense of enjoyment and accomplishment that used to come from traveling to a distant location, taking on a challenge, and coming out victorious.

I realize no one wants to go back to twenty minute travel times to dungeons, myself included.  But I would really like to go back to when it actually made sense to spend time in the open game world.  (Can we at least go back to open game worlds?)  Developers need to figure out how to balance that - that is why, presumably, we pay them the big bucks.

Accomplishment and the Hampster Wheel

I used to find the sense of accomplishment in-game very satisfying.  And then came the expansion.  And the next one, and the next one.  And then I realized, all my accomplishments would mean next to nothing in a few months, and so I gave up trying.

The problem is, sooner or later gamers figure out that the conventional MMORPG model is a hampster wheel.  You just run around, and around, and around, and don't really go anywhere.  For a short time the illusion can be maintained, but inevitably, it wears off.

What players need is accomplishment based on something other than grinding out levels and/or dungeon raids.  That, I think, is why PvP arena games like League of Legends are taking off.  Competitive PvP isn't something you just grind out and gets replaced with the next expansion; it's a real accomplishment to go up on the rankings.  It's also why conventional RPGs haven't gone out of style; players love the real accomplishment of finishing a long and difficult story line.

MMORPGs may have a future.  But if so, it would involve . . .

Less Of:

• Zoned content
• Repetitive content
• Level cap/max gear being raised/outdated every six to twelve months
• Scripted encounters
• Single-player content

and More Of:

• Player interaction
• Open world content
• Events and other unrepeated content
• Player actions impacting the world
• Game expansion in terms of breadth (more classes, more skills, greater variety in gear, etc.) rather than just level cap +5, weapon DPS +10
• Dynamic encounters
• Multi-player content

Something that must be stressed is that this notion that MMOs have hit some cliff and are simply all bad is highly subjective. Truth is what you may not like others may like, so it is best to abandon this doom and gloom viewpoint in favor of an ever expanding realization that like all other forms of mediums and art MMORPGs go through the cycles of birth, growth, death, and then finnally re-birth. MMOs are still fairly young when compared to other forms of Interactive Art, so much of what is happening is the naturally recuring growing pains. Here is the real key you can either contribute to their further maturation, or you can slide in tothea pessamistic valley of despair and truly miss out on the great things to come.

Originally posted by Lazzaro

No innovation, almost every BIG MMO wants to copy WOW for the cash money.

That have been really true for a long time but it is becomming less and less true now however.

Wow is finally losing players now and it seems that many smarter publishers actually are trying to slowly change things now.

Funny enough is it Microsoft that puts most money into a innovative game right now by backing Undead labs "Class 4". It is the first really innovative MMO with a good financial backing I can remember unless you consider UO and AC to have good backings (at the time they had but it was peanuts compared to what MMOs cost today).

But the times are changing and even Microsoft have figured that out. Only EA and Activision seems to not seen it yet.

Originally posted by Lissyl

Originally posted by JWTuna

Those independant developers already exist.  Why aren't they receiving your money -now- when it matters?  What makes you above the 'lowest' common denominator?  Who 'should' be playing an MMO?  What game can I play 'god mode' in?  Your opening statements are chock-full of insinuations, misrepresentations, and outright insulting of your fellow players.  Not exactly a good start to developing a more challenging 'social' experience, I'd wager, but wholly consistent with my not-so-ancient memories of the TERA forums.

As to your sandbox comments...I'm somewhat more inclined to agree to an extent.  Permadeath -is- a major rejection to a lot of people; that happened in the tabletop genre also.  Full loot pvp is a non-starter in terms of large appeal because it's nothing more than a haven for griefers.  Once you remove those two chunks of silliness though, then you have room to start working on something that will appeal to multiple playstyles.  And make no mistake...sandboxes, more than any other MMO, require multiple playstyles.  To be otherwise would be to create a world where everyone is similar, and I don't think that's the experience -any- of us are looking for.

 

Just to answer some of your questions (no insults were intended! I should have gone into more detail)

Those who 'should' be playing mmos are those that enjoy them. At the heart of all mmos are two things, in varying degrees of course; competition and cooperation. If you dont like one/both of these things, then mmos are simply not games where you will have fun. Yeh you can play through most mmos entirely solo, never speaking to a single person...but to me, not enjoyable and entirely pointless, why not stick to console where graphics and gameplay are better? If you hate competition, you are in for a real rough time, as almost every goal in an mmorpg is based on being better / having better gear than others, building the strongest clan...hell, killing others...Or even competing with yourself to simply keep improving/developing. 

The problem I was refering to is that designers dont listen to me, or people ike me, who want compeition and challenge and ongoing (undending) development, they listen to this group playing in constant misery, complaining in chat and forums about how they hate the grinding, the level disparities, better/worse gear than others, dungeons bieng to long/hard, getting ganked, or having to rely on others to progress. And the result is all the basic tenants of an mmo are stripped away to satisfy this larger/louder player base that hate the game, and mmos in general.

What happened to stat allocation? Removed to protect people from making mistakes, or making builds that weren't as strong as others. Funny you mention Tera, because in that case, what happened to skill allocation? Removed because again, choice = bad, cookiecutter = good! You even get pvp/bg gear from pve bosses, because having to actually pvp to get pvp gear is discrimination against pve players! Many mmorpg ads now boast that everyone can have all skills and use all gear, etc, as if this is a good thing? It isnt, infact such games are no longer rpgs in any sense of the term.

The point is, why change a genre to suit players that hate that genre? Would you put guns in Skyrim because a cod fanatic complained about it? You are simply turning it into the games that these people should be playing in the first place, which for many is a 2D platformer or onrails shooter. Why not keep mmorpg games for mmorpg players?