Originally posted by delete5230

What we need is an old school mmo.  In other words we need an mmo that is hard.

 [snip]

We DO need.  A somewhat hard mmo.  One that relays on the guy next to you having a hard time soloing too.  A game that joining a guild means something, and helps the players progress as a team.  Make a friend that you click with?....Add him to your friends list....It's all about survival in a hard world.

 

Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

To the OP...

 

The majorrity of MMO players is actually very happy with things like dungeon finders, instance quests crossrealm interaction and such

 

 

So dont say We need, but refer to me and my friends, or even the very lonely I.

 

When do people like the OP start to realise they are currently a very small minority.

"The majorrity" you say - well than you've just called most of the worlds population imbeciles... what an irony?!

Originally posted by Sp!k3

Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

To the OP...

 

The majorrity of MMO players is actually very happy with things like dungeon finders, instance quests crossrealm interaction and such

 

 

So dont say We need, but refer to me and my friends, or even the very lonely I.

 

When do people like the OP start to realise they are currently a very small minority.

"The majorrity" you say - well than you've just called most of the worlds population imbeciles... what an irony?!

 

 

 

"The majorrity," you say? Well then you've just called most of the worlds population imbeciles. What's an irony?

Fixed.

Originally posted by Quirhid

Well lets go at it then...

I know about leading an over 90-player clan for 6 months to have one of the longest win streaks in a game's history since. Do you know how I did that? I cracked the whip and those who didn't do what I said were free to leave, and those who complained were free to leave as well. How about the rest? -They accepted what I was doing and my results spoke for themselves. I left the internal squabbling, inside and outside politics to someone else, because I have little patience for it and I think ingame politics is juvenile without exceptions. They put me in that position to make sure we win battles and I did just that.

I also know about playing competitive PvP in international ladders, tournaments and events.

You saying what I do is easy? Do I give two shits about someone pulling few too many mobs in a dungeon? -No I don't.

I have no idea what game that is, probably a PVP game where it's cool to look down on your guildies as inferior. Since that is what I see in most PVP games, you have to be better than the person next to you and you get ahead by pushing someone else down. You grief and destroy the fun of others and it's more about your standing within the community than the community itself.

This is why I don't play PVP, PVE requires mutual respect, and you would have never become a guild leader in EQ if you talked about your guildies saying "crack the whip".

People don't understand what was hard in EQ because they never played it, it was about much more than gameplay, it was about respecting others so you didn't get a bad name for yourself, it was about being able to lead a guild with 60 other players, willingness to listen to others and ability to communicate. All the cool kids thrive in PVP games since it's cool tolook up to someone who acts "boss" in a game, in PVE the people who thrive in those games tend to be moms and calmer individuals, since it's more about acceptance and respect than it is about rankings. Your game is very different, PVP games are solely about competition, not common interest, this is why they have the reputation and stigma attached to them and why so many people are starting to avoid them.

Originally posted by Sythion

Originally posted by Sp!k3

Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

To the OP...

 

The majorrity of MMO players is actually very happy with things like dungeon finders, instance quests crossrealm interaction and such

 

 

So dont say We need, but refer to me and my friends, or even the very lonely I.

 

When do people like the OP start to realise they are currently a very small minority.

"The majorrity" you say - well than you've just called most of the worlds population imbeciles... what an irony?!

 

 

 

"The majorrity," you say? Well then you've just called most of the worlds population imbeciles. What's an irony?

Fixed.

...

All these changes are the results of active forum feedbacks from the players.  We did not want games that takes too much time.  We wanted progression more than anything else. We wanted them to change stuff and they did it. Now, you want them to revert back to what we considered things that didn't make sense back then? The only way for this to happen is to get everybody who wants this kind of MMO to make it themselves because investors will not waste valuable manpower and money just so this minority can have their fun.

Tens of millions play online games.  This site only has a little over 1.8million registered members.   How many gamers actually posted in this thread?  I highly doubt this "true mmo" people are looking for will even hit the decent mmo success humbers.

If an old school EQ clone, retaining that classic game's core philosophies, came on Kickstarter or something I would throw a few quid it's way.

Sadly though it would be very niche. Too many want AAA production values with which clearly would be a minority market indie game and have very little tolerance for  imperfections or gradual live development.

Originally posted by Vesavius
If an old school EQ clone, retaining that classic game's core philosophies, came on Kickstarter or something I would throw a few quid it's way.

Originally posted by smh_alot

Originally posted by Vesavius
If an old school EQ clone, retaining that classic game's core philosophies, came on Kickstarter or something I would throw a few quid it's way.

 

You know that EQ had its classic EQ progression servers a couple of times the past years, right, where they gave players the opportunity to play EQ as it was (for 95-99%) in the year after it launched? :-)

 

Yep.

Originally posted by aesperus

Originally posted by xDrac

I think you are exaggerating a little, lol. I don't think he's "belitteling" or "insulting". 

And really now, what he wrote is true. There's so few new and hard oldschool MMO's these days it's ridiculous.

Ever stop to think that maybe there's a reason there's so few of them?

Most MMO players don't seem to realize (or care) just how massive an undertaking it is to create a new MMO. Not only the cost, but also the time investment, finding enough of the right type of talent, etc. It's extremely costly.

Really??

So how is it possible that every big MMO released in last 5 years was a quick cashgrab, clearly designed to hold players attention for no more than 2 months? What is the point of making MMORPGs like that, if it is such an enormous time and money investment?

It looks to me that it's not a time/money investment at all, it is just a marketing strategy to copy and sell the same crap to people over and over again, becouse there is much bigger probabilty that they will buy new crap, with new look and name, as opposed to subscribing to old crap, the one that they already know is crap and are sick of.

I actually am preatty sure that MMO developers make broken and unfinished games on purpouse, becouse, if they would ever make one great game, with no bugs and full of content, nobody would buy new MMOs for years, or they would need to make even better game than the old one, which would cost more time and money than making same old crappy game and would cause developer to actually make less money in the end.

It is something you could call "Collective Let's-not-raise-the-bar-and-sell-crap-instead Aggreament"

Originally posted by CalmOceans

Originally posted by Quirhid

 

I have no idea what game that is, probably a PVP game where it's cool to look down on your guildies as inferior. Since that is what I see in most PVP games, you have to be better than the person next to you and you get ahead by pushing someone else down. You grief and destroy the fun of others and it's more about your standing within the community than the community itself.

This is why I don't play PVP, PVE requires mutual respect, and you would have never become a guild leader in EQ if you talked about your guildies saying "crack the whip".

People don't understand what was hard in EQ because they never played it, it was about much more than gameplay, it was about respecting others so you didn't get a bad name for yourself, it was about being able to lead a guild with 60 other players, willingness to listen to others and ability to communicate. All the cool kids thrive in PVP games since it's cool tolook up to someone who acts "boss" in a game, in PVE the people who thrive in those games tend to be moms and calmer individuals, since it's more about acceptance and respect than it is about rankings. Your game is very different, PVP games are solely about competition, not common interest, this is why they have the reputation and stigma attached to them and why so many people are starting to avoid them.

I don't know why you've build such a stereotype but I like what I do. I'm not on an egotrip. I'm not there to stroke my e-peen - not the rankings. I love the competition. I love the challenge. I love to master something. In the end I'm there to beat myself.

They wanted to win and they put me in charge. I was not a dictator. And I respect anyone who deserves respect. I didn't look down on anyone. And if you want success, sometimes you need to crack the whip if the situation calls for it. First you need people to focus on the right things instead of the wrong things - weed the bad habits and tactics. Then you  plant a mindset and nurture it.

How can you say its not about common interest when everyone on board is trying their best to make the group succeed? And afterwards while some quit under my leadership, more people said they it was awesome: That they've never experienced games like that. I like to think I made a positive impact overall... sparked few competitive PvPers.

All the clans and guilds I've been involved have been very close, and often we've played games past the one we bumped into each other. Now say that is not about respecting others, social or whatever skewed stereotype you're trying to fit me into.

Originally posted by SimonVDH

Originally posted by aesperus

Originally posted by xDrac

I think you are exaggerating a little, lol. I don't think he's "belitteling" or "insulting". 

And really now, what he wrote is true. There's so few new and hard oldschool MMO's these days it's ridiculous.

Ever stop to think that maybe there's a reason there's so few of them?

Most MMO players don't seem to realize (or care) just how massive an undertaking it is to create a new MMO. Not only the cost, but also the time investment, finding enough of the right type of talent, etc. It's extremely costly.

 

Really??

So how is it possible that every big MMO released in last 5 years was a quick cashgrab, clearly designed to hold players attention for no more than 2 months? What is the point of making MMORPGs like that, if it is such an enormous time and money investment?

...because it is worth it? Why else?

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

To the OP...

 

The majorrity of MMO players is actually very happy with things like dungeon finders, instance quests crossrealm interaction and such

 

 

So dont say We need, but refer to me and my friends, or even the very lonely I.

 

When do people like the OP start to realise they are currently a very small minority.

If a majority of players are happy with these features, why do they leave most MMO's so quickly.

What are they looking for to keep them playing for longer than 2-3 months?

 

They aren't leaving because of the features.  They are leaving because the gameplay or content is lacking.  Study up on causation and correlation.

Originally posted by Quirhid

Originally posted by xDrac

Originally posted by Quirhid

 

You wrote that and still managed to squeeze in few insinuations and derogatory terms. Your whole post is belittling, insulting.

The problem for you and posters like you, is your hostile attitude and your overflowing bitterness and disdain. How the hell do you expect people to respond to that? What kind of image does that create of old-school players? Social and friendly my ass...

I think you are exaggerating a little, lol. I don't think he's "belitteling" or "insulting". 

And really now, what he wrote is true. There's so few new and hard oldschool MMO's these days it's ridiculous.

First, old school MMOs were not hard. They did not require more skill, just more time. Second, the whole notion that there is a type of "true MMO" out there is belittling.

I don't think I am exaggerating. There's too much to pick up from that one post alone. It is absolutely oozing with hate.

Not another person begging for "group dependant MMO". No thanks. I won't play it. 

But we do need to return to the sandbox games. I'm sick to death of the pvp and themepark focused games. 

Originally posted by Moirae

Not another person begging for "group dependant MMO". No thanks. I won't play it. 

But we do need to return to the sandbox games. I'm sick to death of the pvp and themepark focused games. 

What is the point of an mmo if you can eaily solo the content? Why not just play a single person rpg, for that sort of play style it would be a massively superior product, at leat if you pick a good one. 

Originally posted by KingGator

Originally posted by Moirae

Not another person begging for "group dependant MMO". No thanks. I won't play it. 

But we do need to return to the sandbox games. I'm sick to death of the pvp and themepark focused games. 

What is the point of an mmo if you can eaily solo the content? Why not just play a single person rpg, for that sort of play style it would be a massively superior product, at leat if you pick a good one. 

Did I say somewhere that I wanted it to be easy? Or that I wanted it all to be solo? Nope, I didn't. Even EQ wasn't "group only", you know. And that game was hard core dedication. 

Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

To the OP...

 

The majorrity of MMO players is actually very happy with things like dungeon finders, instance quests crossrealm interaction and such

 

No, WoW fans and Diablo fans are happy with those features.

Core MMORPG fans, the type of people that enjoy virtual worlds, socializing, and, well, MMORPGs, see those features as the antithesis of the genre.

Originally posted by Fondel
Darkfall Unholy Wars anyone?

Yup, this, Vanguard, and Planetside 2 seem to be the best choices for classic MMOs in the near future.