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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

Reviews & Impressions  » I'm pretty much done.

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95 posts found
  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3778

9/28/12 5:03:37 PM#41
Originally posted by Hrimnir

For example.  The whole "we got rid of trinity" thing.  OK, we've well established lots of people hate Trinity, and i'm fine with getting rid of it IF you have something better to replace it with.  Or at least equal.  In this case, the replacement is far FAR FAR FAR FAR stupider.  The whole grouping dynamic in this game is just quirky and retarded and doesn't work for shit.  Its like replacing a steering wheel with an acceleration/brake lever and a joystick for steering.  Can it work? yes, is it better than a steering wheel and brake/gas pedals.  Not by a long shot.  I did story mode Arah with a surprisingly competent pug last night, and i was ready to start punching kittens by the time i was halfway through it.

Second thing.  I'm tired of being constantly on the verge of being broke.  This game has been a lesson in frustration on the aspect of money.  Everything in the game is designed to nickle and dime you to hell and back, and frankly its bullshit.  Repair costs, especially once you hit 80 and have rare or better armor, are through the friggin roof.  Transport costs are even more bullshit.  Let me give a point of reference.  Doing a level 80 event in one of the high end zones nets you something on the order of 1.75s.   In my current setup 1 death costs me 1s34c.  One port in the very same zone, if im super close to the node is about 1.5s but sometimes close to 2s.   Lets say i wanna go back to a city for some reason.  3s24c.

Now, you say, "oh well sell your blues and loot and crafting mats and you'll be fine!"  Well, thats partially true except the botters which are utterly rampant now, have saturated the market so much that things which you rarely see, like say orichalcum nodes, are basically worthless now.  2 weeks ago you would have netted 7-10s, now, its more like 1-2s for 3 orichalcum ores.  The game literally punishes you, or at least makes you feel like your being punished for trying to push harder and try more difficult stuff.  IMO its actually worse than a heavy XP penalty (and im an EQ vet so i know full well what im saying right now).  I would rather lose 1/5 of a level's worth of XP every death than have to spend 4-5s per death.

Harsh but fair criticism.

 

Re: Grouping

I think one of the biggest problems is that the solo part of the game--i.e. exploration and solo fights--is so easy that you can be ultra sloppy with your skill selections and still succeed, but the dungeons are pretty unforgiving. Can they be done? Of course. But you have to plan and readjust your thinking...not something PUGs are known for. The degree of difficulty in even story mode dungeons compared to PVE outside dungeons is at least 5X greater if not more. I think a lot of people in PUGs are surprised by the changes in play style forced on you by dungeons. I don't think it has anything to do with the trinity--it's simply a disconnect between outdoors and dungeon PVE difficulty.

 

Re: Nickle, Diming and the Economy:

I couldn't agree with you more. Porting and repair costs scale up at a much faster rate than rewards so that by end-game, it is a struggle to come out ahead--it's totally out of whack...I've started walking everywhere  What makes it worse is that what could just be a need for tuning that will come at some point (I think we all know that MMOs tune the lower areas to a much greater extent than the higher ones at launch and GW2 is no exception) leads to uneasy feelings about being scammed by Anet because they are also in the business of selling gold (indirectly through gems but that's not a significant difference) for cash. They should be ultra careful to not do anything that could be construed as a deliberate clamping of the economy to stimulate gem sales.

 

The other stuff you mention is trivial compared to these two. But your criticism of the grouping problems and  the economy at level 80 are two real problems with the game right now.

 

Sounds like the balance of good vs. bad just ain't cutting for you any more. I'm still having fun with alts but I hardly ever log my 80 Guardian to do any heavily-botted Orr events.

 

And yes I agree, a lot of the game is indeed brilliant.

  User Deleted
9/28/12 5:06:48 PM#42
Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

Pro tip:

Orr is not solo friendly.

If you dying anywhere else well..

 

Now I'm waiting for the posts stating GW2 PvE is easy, waypoints make the world so small ans the game hand held you at every step.

And it is not botters - it is the difference between a TP of about 2 million vs a trade post of tens of thousands.

On the plus side equipment is cheap.

And going to a city is free. Returning not so much.

I keep seeing the haters post "you're not playing it right" well apparently it's true for some people. I have to admit there is a cost of living here but really it's only crazy high if you are constantly buying something (like with cooking) since I've reached level 50 i've noticed a big change in the number of coin i get from everything and i don't DE armor as much as i find ore all over the place. The only time i've ever needed help purchasing anything is when i bought the book for the Traits. The only reason i needed help was due to my crazy shopping sensabilities.  Keep buying things i don't need. Can't help but wonder if this isn't the problem here for the OP as well.

I only use a small number of higher salvage kits on leather and only if they are greens or higher quality the rest are salvaged with the 88c version. I get armor drops constantly that aren't whites, i get weapons all the time. I've reached the state that Veterans can be killed by just me (which surprisingly is hard for some people). And I've learned that when out killing things for gear, humanoids are the best shot at good drops, and wearing an armor set that provides basic protections while giving you a + to the % you need to get better magic drops is essential because those are the ones that bring in money.

As far as recipes go, guess no one here has heard of guildhead.com. pretty much cures any info issues accept where to farm leather or vanilla beans.

Sorry you feel that progression is the only reason people play mmo's  perhaps you'd be happier with multiple spRPGs? Not being snide just thinking what might make you a more happy player.

Finally I have to point out, the reason the number of posts in the TP is so high isn't because of farmers, it's because the TP isn't limited to a single server. I doubt very highly that they can have 600+k players on the same server at once. (the largest listing i've found so far in a single search).

I guess what I'm trying to say is this. There's a set of rules for every game. If you insist on not following them then of course there's going to be problems for you, but really this isn't an issue of the game is broken imo because I like many others on this board read alot about this game long before it came out compiled info to learn how to play. We're not perfect, by any means but we definitely found ways to work around problems using the basic rules of the game.

 

  Elikal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/09/06
Posts: 8067

“No path is darker then when your eyes are shut.” -Flemeth

9/28/12 5:17:29 PM#43
The critique of the OP is in accordance of my own experience as well. Fully agree, though I am not entirely done yet, I can see that coming sooner or later.

A forum is a place where people can discuss about different opinions. So what I don't get is, how people react offended when they come to a forum and then find... well different opinions. If a different opinion offends you, what are you even doing here?

  cheyane

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/17/09
Posts: 2365

9/28/12 5:30:22 PM#44

In my opinion dungeons in this game become a problem because the people who you group with are not trained in any group play before the dungeon. Everyone has been pretty much just winging it and since there are no real roles this makes random pugs in dungeons even worse. At least in a game with a trinity people are expected to perform a role so they take the right  skills and do it but in this case the groups are aimless and hence float into a train wreck. I am not saying the fault is the lack of a trinity it is not but it is caused by lack of grouping prior to the dungeon.

 

This is why the lack of a trinity  worked better in City of Villains/Heroes because there most missions are 8 group parties so you are forced to learn to play together and play accommodatingly where if there is lack of a healer or tanker other classes compensate by adding more shields or debuffs or pets. Here we solo a lot even in events rezzing people does not count as group play or occasionally using another player's combo field is not particularly cooperative but rather opportunistic gameplay. This is why dungeons become the bad experience it is.

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  gessekai332

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/31/07
Posts: 852

9/28/12 5:32:03 PM#45
Originally posted by halflife25
Originally posted by kluu
 

what the hell?

Hahaa..exactly my thoughts after reading thtat un necessary long winded reply.

too bad you guys dont get it. have fun wiping in explorable dungeons 10x then ragequit. if you dont have the game then it wasnt meant for you anyway.

Most memorable games: AoC(Tryanny PvP), RIFT, GW, GW2, Ragnarok Online, Aion, FFXI, FFXIV, Secret World, League of Legends (Silver II rank)

  Hrimnir

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/24/10
Posts: 1091

 
OP  9/29/12 12:51:47 AM#46

Im gonna put in a couple cents without responding to any particular post:

1.  The "you don't understand what the game is about / you don't *get* it" response is just getting tired and old.  It smacks of hipsterism and has literally no validity.  Trust me, i "get it", i just think its a shit system that doesnt belong in a real RPG.  But hey, thats just me i guess.

2. The whole "gear progression, x progression and y progression is "OLD" and ingrained into us and that means its bad, cus its old, and this is new, and new is good" load of crap.  You ever heard the phrase, if it ain't broke don't fix it? There is a reason that phrase exists.  BECAUSE ITS TRUE. New for the sake of new is flat out idiocy.  New because its better is fine.  For example, this new bullet proof vest will stop a .44 magnum, whereas the "old" vest would only stop up to a .357 magnum. There is a reason fantasy novels that feature a character who starts out as a nobody farmer/beggar/carpenter/whatever mundane job gets discovered by the local Lord/Magician/Master Blacksmith/whatever and goes on to become captain fuck-awesome and slay the big bad dragon/demon/evil douchebag and be the dude everyone thinks is kickass.  Its a theme that resonates with humanity.

What today's generation seems to want is a story about the dude who is already a noble's son, has a pretty sweet sword already, and then continues for 500 pages about how he goes on a quest to find a new sword that has a blue hilt, because his current one has a red hilt and he just isn't feeling red today.  So, he needs one thats a blue hilt.  Then later he gets sick of that but hears about some pointy ear dudes that might be able to make him a sword with a green hilt.   You know, because "lateral" progression is cool.  Can it cut through a wet paper bag? who cares, as long as it looks cool, thats all that matters.

"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."

- Friedrich Nietzsche

  odinsrath

Novice Member

Joined: 11/29/10
Posts: 839

9/29/12 1:08:23 AM#47

yah it gets bland fast ..yah its not one of those mmorpgs you play everyday...but 2 things you wont ever run into or need to do or use  is gear checking from mates and gear score...this is the core that has ruined mmo's..checking to see who can out dps who and who has the largest epeen...skill goes along way ..and most mmo's nowa days you need no skill  involved

im not saying gw2 is perfect in any way because its not

i play gw2 but im rly starting to miss a role to play..im glad its f2p cuz i would rly feel like im being shafted

now im starting to crawl back into the"omGAWD! will they ever bring out a good mmorpg" depression ..still have my fingers crossed for Arche age

  eAzydaman

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/21/07
Posts: 220

9/29/12 1:49:18 AM#48
Originally posted by odinsrath

yah it gets bland fast ..yah its not one of those mmorpgs you play everyday...but 2 things you wont ever run into or need to do or use  is gear checking from mates and gear score...this is the core that has ruined mmo's..checking to see who can out dps who and who has the largest epeen...skill goes along way ..and most mmo's nowa days you need no skill  involved

im not saying gw2 is perfect in any way because its not

i play gw2 but im rly starting to miss a role to play..im glad its f2p cuz i would rly feel like im being shafted

now im starting to crawl back into the"omGAWD! will they ever bring out a good mmorpg" depression ..still have my fingers crossed for Arche age

I wouldn't hold my breath for Archeage, it's the same old boring combat and rinse repeat quests with sandboxy elements. And it won't be out until late 2014 earliest.

By that time GW2 will have had 4 expansions and like 1000 content updates and no other game will be able to compete with it :P NOTSRS.

But time will tell, right now there's still alot of bugs, botters, hacks etc that has to be sorted out, once they got a grip on that who knows, they might be the fastest company in the world on getting out content patches and they said those patches would be more frequent and dense than even P2P MMO's. Here's hoping for a DF style dungeon, sPVP rankings and ladders with spec. mode.

  Indrome

Novice Member

Joined: 5/03/12
Posts: 294

This is like trying to drive straight through Schroedinger's minefield!

9/29/12 1:53:56 AM#49
Originally posted by Karteli

GW2 is pretty much a single player game, converted into an MMO.  Everyone, every player is pretty much anonymous, outside of the people you see directly in front of you, or the folks in a localized chat window.  Even then with the people in front of you, it's impossible to inspect their gear or achievements.

[ ... ]

Can people please stop saying that? It's hyperbolic rubbish and shouldn't count as an argument for anything. It doesn't even feel like an opinion anymore ... more like a figure of speech or a provoking catch-all-phrase that is used on every single MMO where the most menial content is plainly soloable.

I have never experienced an MMO where a player wasn't anonymous when he wasn't standing in front of me or talking in general chat (zone chat, map chat, it's all the same). I agree that I (should) miss gear-inspect. But that's just because I've gotten so very used to it in the past. I've never had the feeling I NEEDED it for anything useful. It's a nice gimmick to have like the group finder but its absence is not an indicator of a "single player game".

Personally, I feel this is the most multiplayer-scentric MMO I've ever played. BEcause people are able to gain something from it, they actually stop and help others even if not necessarily needed. In no other MMO (EVER) would I have been resurrected by a stranger. I don't get where this "singleplayer-MMO" bullsh*t comes from.

 

@OP:

Don't like it for the game it is and not for the game it's not ... well, at least you've given it an honest try. Just sit back and wait a couple of months maybe. You won't paying a sub until then so it will definitely be worth your while.

  JoeyMMO

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/09/11
Posts: 1326

To busy playing GW2 to post much around here... *shrug*

9/29/12 2:46:02 AM#50
Originally posted by Hrimnir

*snip*

Anyways, i just can't bring myself to give a shit anymore.  I log and i don't actually feel like im progressing anything, and to me, thats what the point of an MMO is.  I've hit max level, so i cant progress levels.  Dungeon gear is the same stats as what im wearing so i just get some cool looking armor from it.  And i can't go make money because there is no viable way to do it.  Whether thats by design or just a result of botters fucking the game up, i dont know.

Either way all i can be is happy as hell that storm legion is coming out soon.

 You should really stop coming up with BS reasons why you now longer want to play, it does not make you look like the fairly intelligent person that I'm sure you are.

Guild Wars 2 Gold Vid

was posted here http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/365953/page/1

Have fun on the RIFT gear threadmill.

  Hrimnir

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/24/10
Posts: 1091

 
OP  9/29/12 4:24:27 AM#51
Originally posted by Indrome
Originally posted by Karteli

GW2 is pretty much a single player game, converted into an MMO.  Everyone, every player is pretty much anonymous, outside of the people you see directly in front of you, or the folks in a localized chat window.  Even then with the people in front of you, it's impossible to inspect their gear or achievements.

[ ... ]

Can people please stop saying that? It's hyperbolic rubbish and shouldn't count as an argument for anything. It doesn't even feel like an opinion anymore ... more like a figure of speech or a provoking catch-all-phrase that is used on every single MMO where the most menial content is plainly soloable.

I have never experienced an MMO where a player wasn't anonymous when he wasn't standing in front of me or talking in general chat (zone chat, map chat, it's all the same). I agree that I (should) miss gear-inspect. But that's just because I've gotten so very used to it in the past. I've never had the feeling I NEEDED it for anything useful. It's a nice gimmick to have like the group finder but its absence is not an indicator of a "single player game".

Personally, I feel this is the most multiplayer-scentric MMO I've ever played. BEcause people are able to gain something from it, they actually stop and help others even if not necessarily needed. In no other MMO (EVER) would I have been resurrected by a stranger. I don't get where this "singleplayer-MMO" bullsh*t comes from.

 

@OP:

Don't like it for the game it is and not for the game it's not ... well, at least you've given it an honest try. Just sit back and wait a couple of months maybe. You won't paying a sub until then so it will definitely be worth your while.

[mod edit]

The *most* multiplayer-centric mmo you've ever played?  This has to be the only MMO you've ever played, cus, literally every other MMO i've played was more multiplayer centric than this one.

"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."

- Friedrich Nietzsche

  thexrated

Novice Member

Joined: 11/26/04
Posts: 1379

9/29/12 4:39:20 AM#52
Originally posted by eggy08

The only lack in social interaction is the lack of effort that people put into it themselves.

Shifting the blame. It is a design decision. In games, just like in real life, people need reasons to socialise, group and network. Society is based on the fact that we can achieve more together than alone.  In games, those reasons need to be build into gameplay mechanisms.

In themeparks, these might be raids, area/resource control, or other form of faction PvP.

In sandboxes, well, EVE is an good example. The reason to group is based on the very similar reasons that it is in real life.

"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."

  Connmacart

Novice Member

Joined: 2/24/12
Posts: 693

9/29/12 4:43:52 AM#53
Originally posted by thexrated
Originally posted by eggy08

The only lack in social interaction is the lack of effort that people put into it themselves.

Shifting the blame. It is a design decision. In games, just like in real life, people need reasons to socialise, group and network. Society is based on the fact that we can achieve more together than alone.

If you go to a bar and just sit there drinking quietly and afterwards complain no one talked to you. That doesn't mean the place isn't social. In games just as in real life you need to put in effort to socialize it does not happen on its own. So stop shifting the problem to the game.

  Acidon

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/09/05
Posts: 697

Permafried

9/29/12 4:57:32 AM#54
Originally posted by Hrimnir

Im gonna put in a couple cents without responding to any particular post:

1.  The "you don't understand what the game is about / you don't *get* it" response is just getting tired and old.  It smacks of hipsterism and has literally no validity.  Trust me, i "get it", i just think its a shit system that doesnt belong in a real RPG.  But hey, thats just me i guess.

2. The whole "gear progression, x progression and y progression is "OLD" and ingrained into us and that means its bad, cus its old, and this is new, and new is good" load of crap.  You ever heard the phrase, if it ain't broke don't fix it? There is a reason that phrase exists.  BECAUSE ITS TRUE. New for the sake of new is flat out idiocy.  New because its better is fine.  For example, this new bullet proof vest will stop a .44 magnum, whereas the "old" vest would only stop up to a .357 magnum. There is a reason fantasy novels that feature a character who starts out as a nobody farmer/beggar/carpenter/whatever mundane job gets discovered by the local Lord/Magician/Master Blacksmith/whatever and goes on to become captain fuck-awesome and slay the big bad dragon/demon/evil douchebag and be the dude everyone thinks is kickass.  Its a theme that resonates with humanity.

What today's generation seems to want is a story about the dude who is already a noble's son, has a pretty sweet sword already, and then continues for 500 pages about how he goes on a quest to find a new sword that has a blue hilt, because his current one has a red hilt and he just isn't feeling red today.  So, he needs one thats a blue hilt.  Then later he gets sick of that but hears about some pointy ear dudes that might be able to make him a sword with a green hilt.   You know, because "lateral" progression is cool.  Can it cut through a wet paper bag? who cares, as long as it looks cool, thats all that matters.

 

At the risk of another warning,  I just wanted to say that this was very well put and is exactly how I feel.  

Somewhere along the way the RPG element has been lost.  I still have killer fun in Rift and TSW, they are good games.

I've been saying the same thing, "new for the sake of being new" is not the answer.  I've talked to others about the fact that if GW2 is a big success, the entire genre may end up skewing in a bad direction.  This is not something I want to see.  

That said, as I've said many times before, good on you if you're enjoying GW2.  There's nothing wrong with enjoying a certain game.  I'm just saying that I am personally uneasy about the future.

 

Playing: EverQuest, RiFT, Defiance, APB:Reloaded
Mourning: World of Darkness, Vanguard, City of Heroes



Free, Clean & Safe Quality of Life Software:
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  aesperus

Elite Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 4749

9/29/12 5:28:36 AM#55
Originally posted by Hrimnir

I can honestly say i've never been this confused by an MMO.  And i don't mean actually confused, im not a bumpkin, i mean confused by design decisions, etc.  Too many things just felt like they were change for the sake of change, and not because they actually came up with a better method.

**** snip ****

Anyways, i just can't bring myself to give a shit anymore.  I log and i don't actually feel like im progressing anything, and to me, thats what the point of an MMO is.  I've hit max level, so i cant progress levels.  Dungeon gear is the same stats as what im wearing so i just get some cool looking armor from it.  And i can't go make money because there is no viable way to do it.  Whether thats by design or just a result of botters fucking the game up, i dont know.

Either way all i can be is happy as hell that storm legion is coming out soon.

[mod edit]

The class dynamics aren't broken, and they indeed work quite fine. This has been demonstrated time and time again by many players (and I've witnessed it myself as well). This is the only MMO I've played where I can run a dungeon (in it's hardest mode) with literally any class combination and succeed. The trade-off is you are now responsible for yourself. You don't get to blame others for your mistakes anymore. That's not a design flaw.

As for money. People aren't making stuff up when they say this is literally one of the easiest MMOs to earn money in. I personally tend to make between 1-5g a night (on a casual night). Some players can make as much as 100g in one night. However, I won't get into how markets work, and how to use them to your advantage. You obviously don't care about that, and don't feel like you should have to to make money. And I get that. So, assuming you don't use the TP at all, you still make more money than you spend through general travel costs & repairs. The trade-off is that if you are constantly dying, or waypointing, you will be using these services far in excess of what you should be. That's not a design flaw. It's the game's way of not rewarding failure. You can literally go to any map, do a dynamic event, and between the reward for completion & selling the items you end up getting (not even on the TP, just to some random NPC merchant) you will come out with more money than you started. Period. I'm sorry to say, that if that's a problem for you, then I can't think of a single MMO that makes it easier for you to make money. Even including games  that don't have repair costs.

That also gets back to the first point on class mechanics. First learn how they work, and how to use your skills, so you aren't constantly dying and needing to repair.

As for the mystic forge.. that's not a requirement of the game. It's an extra system if you want to try and figure out how to get really obscure items. It has nothing to do w/ GW1 and is a feature entirely specific to GW2. I'm sorry you have trouble using google, though.

I hate to say it, but you sound like you really just don't 'get it'. You remind me of a person I know in game, who makes absolutely zero effort to try and learn the game. Instead he just bitches & complains about everything, inspite others trying to teach him what he's missunderstanding. The game is hardly perfect, and I think it has a lot of areas that could use improvement, but threads like this just annoy me. It's because there is no effort to try and understand the game in your words. You are making assumptions left and right, and making it clear that you have no interest in trying to educate yourself, then blame the game for your own ignorance.

I'd rather see threads highlighting legitimate issues with the game, rather than these nonsensical rants. There are things Anet should be improving upon, but they won't if all they're seeing are threads like this that can be responded to with a measely 'you need to learn how to play the game'.

  halflife25

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/13/12
Posts: 787

9/29/12 5:55:02 AM#56
Originally posted by Eir_S
Originally posted by grimal

I laughed out loud to your response.

The game definitely has starch defenders, I will say that.

That's STAUNCH defenders.  

As for the OP, good... maybe now you'll stop making these threads complaining instead of just playing somethng you enjoy.

Or..you can stop reading topics like these? how about that?

Look at the section of forum. it is called REVIEWS AND IMPRESSIONS. So OP gave his.

  AlluraA

Novice Member

Joined: 9/06/11
Posts: 8

9/29/12 6:36:44 AM#57

 

If you just don't like the game, that's understandable, everyone has their own taste and opinions, and there are plenty of valid complaints to be had regarding GW2 but many of your issues are workable.

Armor Repair

if you're dying that much, maybe you need to think about changing your build... or even your profession.  I do not want to say that some professions are better or more balanced than others, though that may well be true- I haven't played them all to 80, but everyone has a playstyle and some professions and skill/trait combos are more durable/may work better with your playstyle.  I faced that issue with my mesmer.  I rarely die at all on my necro or guardian but leveling was a nightmare on my mesmer until I changed my traits and weapons around level 20 and have been loving every minute of it... with very few dirt naps.  there are many build calculators out there, just make sure its a recently updated one, and you can also peruse the unlocked traits before you put any points in to see what your options are to work out a build. i've been surprised by how many people haven't known that either.

Trade Post

As for the money issue... You can open the TP and see what people are offering to BUY that's in your inventory and sell it to the highest bidder.  Compare it to the selling price to see if its worth it. It really is not hard and takes very little effort.  Every time my inventory gets filled up I check to TP to see if I can unload, after a while you start to get an idea of what certain things are worth and  how prices fluctuate... without even having to consider it.  I wouldn't do it if I had to put effort into it.  As for the rest... merch it (doing a quick cost-benefit analysis before salvaging is a good idea- just because you can't make money on the TP with something doesn't mean it isn't better of going to the merchant), salvage, craft.  Or else look down the list of things you don't have that people are looking to buy if you want to make more of an effort... Find a niche in the market.  You can also increase your magic find many different ways.  Craft more, level faster, get more items to sell and better gear that way.

Mystic Forge

there was no mystic forge in guild wars 1.  nor anything like it.  the mystic forge is actually more akin to transmuting in torchlight,  you save up weapons, crafting items, things like that and put them in to get better items.  it's what the mystic forge coins are for.  I don't mean to be rude or snarky but if you've played MMO's before then you must be familiar with wiki's and the official forum is up. if you don't know what something is or how it works... look it up!  or ask someone in your guild.

 

There IS a TRINITY

for the record, they never said there's no trinity.  they said there's no holy trinity.  there's no more tank, heal, dps.  Arenanet themselves said the roles are now SUPPORT, DAMAGE, AND CONTROL.  The big difference is you can't tank if you don't have skills to enrage or pull your enemies to you and keep them off your allies, or boost your health.  The very closest that comes to that is guardian and they have a lot of aoe heals (which is why there are no healers- you cannot target another player and heal them, there are only aoe heals) and control, reflect damage skills.  as for dps... well, dps is just a shorter way of typing damage and a longer way of saying it, unless you're getting technical. Control is a little different from some other MMOs and you would not believe how many times I've heard people use the word noob in someone else's direction and then ask what a condition is soon afterward. Learn carefully how all your skills work and how to trigger all of their functionalities, and learn how to be aware of how OTHER peoples' skills work as well so you can maximize your effectiveness and minimize your face time with the dirt.  Learning how to control the battlefield is important regardless of whether you're making that your primary objective, or not.  Any decent build should have some means of control built in, and understand how to use it. Its complex but not needlessly or ridiculously so.  Any MMO you have to learn the softcaps for crits and what buff stacks with what... the conditions and boons and no different in that respect, different names, different dynamic. 

There are SO MANY posts on either side of the TRINITY matter and the GEAR PROGRESSION matter that there could be studies in sociology and psychology on the subjects if anyone actually cared.  Maybe arenanet does.  One side of the trinity debate feels that the way things were was best, well and fine, hates change or thereabouts, and/or at the very worst case doesn't bother to learn how to use the skills at all.  On the extreme other side are the many, MANY individuals out there who run full tilt into whatever may come with their all-damage builds with no consideration of what's going on around them- not only concerning party members but considering that awareness what other non-party players are doing is useful if you are specced for it, and party players especially in dungeons.  You can change some of your traits, your weapons, and your support skills in between fights.  You can completely change your traits pretty inexpensively just by asking the trait trainer which a surprising amount of people do not realize.  It really does work best in dungeons if you're running with an organized team, but it's by no means a "must".  So long as everyone's builds are somewhat balanced.  Just be prepared to make some adjustments on the fly. 

Gear Tier & Gear Progression

As for the tiered gear... gw2 does not have a seemingly endless progression of gear like, say, everquest or rift, its a compromise between that and gw1's system: the tierless (new defense grade every few levels) armor system with runes and insignia for extra stats and tiered weapon system with inscriptions for extra stats. In the first game you brought the crafting materials to the armorsmith, they crafted it and then you had to find or buy the runes and insignia, many of which were outrageously expensive, many of the crafting materials were also.  I think some of the complainers have forgotten that GW1's system was not as lily white as recall bias either, but no game is perfect and no game will please everyone.

In GW2 they DO have gear for every level

white,

blue(fine),

green(master),

yellow(rare),

orange(exotic)

 purple(legendary)

and gear within each level's gear.

One camp complains that this is not enough gear progression or that there isn't any- are they even playing the same game? That there is not enough work to do. The other other camp cries bloody murder and betrayal, and I kid you not they say: betrayal, because they misattributed arenanet in saying that  they would be able to buy the best gear in the game straight out of the gate and should not have to run a dungeon for the armor they want, that it would not be necessary to grind for gear. Grind is in the monitor, mouse and keyboard of beholder so flame me not.Some gear you can only get within your culture, some only within your order, each dungeon has a unique gear or 2 and each dungeon has story mode and a number of explorable modes to run in order to get it- which have been tweaked, first to make it take longer to get the gear (the grinders rejoice!) because of an exploits, and then to make it easier (I'm not sure if the other camp rejoices about ANYTHING, but I guess some of them might cheer a little too. There IS tiered gear, and if you enjoy working for a particularly choice piece of armor or weapon you can do that 'til your heart's content.  All of the levels of gear are craftable- legendary (purple) armor requires maxing of at least 2 particular crafting disciplines- though if you are searching for a particular stat and it only comes from one place and you loooove to work it?  You're in luck.  You hate to work it?  Well, very sad that that's the one piece of gear you want... sometimes that's part of the fun. You can get two tokens for purple weapons by 100% world completion. 

 

  Sorry

  excuse the windy post.  I usually delete them and let it be when they grow like this... i hope some of this helps, excuse the ranting, I limit myself to one windy forum rant a year and you got lucky.  I made it colorful and added subject headings to make it easier on the eyes and so that someone may actually read a part that interests them- and while I am at it, I apologise for that too.  I'm truly not one of those rabid fan people.  I'm just a researcher, writer, and avid gamer who is home sick and has absolutely nothing better to do with my time.  I've been enjoying this game and its what my guild is playing, but it is far from perfect.  Anyhow, to each their own opinion. 

 

  Calerxes

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/06/09
Posts: 1659

9/29/12 6:37:12 AM#58
Originally posted by Hrimnir

Im gonna put in a couple cents without responding to any particular post:

1.  The "you don't understand what the game is about / you don't *get* it" response is just getting tired and old.  It smacks of hipsterism and has literally no validity.  Trust me, i "get it", i just think its a shit system that doesnt belong in a real RPG.  But hey, thats just me i guess.

2. The whole "gear progression, x progression and y progression is "OLD" and ingrained into us and that means its bad, cus its old, and this is new, and new is good" load of crap.  You ever heard the phrase, if it ain't broke don't fix it? There is a reason that phrase exists.  BECAUSE ITS TRUE. New for the sake of new is flat out idiocy.  New because its better is fine.  For example, this new bullet proof vest will stop a .44 magnum, whereas the "old" vest would only stop up to a .357 magnum. There is a reason fantasy novels that feature a character who starts out as a nobody farmer/beggar/carpenter/whatever mundane job gets discovered by the local Lord/Magician/Master Blacksmith/whatever and goes on to become captain fuck-awesome and slay the big bad dragon/demon/evil douchebag and be the dude everyone thinks is kickass.  Its a theme that resonates with humanity.

What today's generation seems to want is a story about the dude who is already a noble's son, has a pretty sweet sword already, and then continues for 500 pages about how he goes on a quest to find a new sword that has a blue hilt, because his current one has a red hilt and he just isn't feeling red today.  So, he needs one thats a blue hilt.  Then later he gets sick of that but hears about some pointy ear dudes that might be able to make him a sword with a green hilt.   You know, because "lateral" progression is cool.  Can it cut through a wet paper bag? who cares, as long as it looks cool, thats all that matters.

 

You've just invented a new MMO subgenre Hrimnir the MMOEMO. 

This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up™ the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.

  Indrome

Novice Member

Joined: 5/03/12
Posts: 294

This is like trying to drive straight through Schroedinger's minefield!

9/29/12 6:45:25 AM#59
Originally posted by Hrimnir

I appreciate you're at OP section, and i say this with as much respect as possible... BUT, are you smoking crack?

The *most* multiplayer-centric mmo you've ever played?  This has to be the only MMO you've ever played, cus, literally every other MMO i've played was more multiplayer centric than this one.

I see you've put a lot of effort into stating your opinion clearly. I just wish you had put as much effort into stating factual arguments that support your decision to hold that particular opinion.

For example I'd love to hear what factors you use in judging a game as multiplayer-centric and which MMOs are entailed by "literally every other MMO" ...

All I see from you here is flaming/bashing of the worst kind. And for your information: The MMOs I have played are listed in my profile.

  Hrimnir

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/24/10
Posts: 1091

 
OP  9/29/12 6:46:14 AM#60
 
 
Originally posted by aesperus
Originally posted by Hrimnir

**** snip ****

[mod edit]

The class dynamics aren't broken, and they indeed work quite fine. This has been demonstrated time and time again by many players (and I've witnessed it myself as well). This is the only MMO I've played where I can run a dungeon (in it's hardest mode) with literally any class combination and succeed. The trade-off is you are now responsible for yourself. You don't get to blame others for your mistakes anymore. That's not a design flaw.

Well, once again it appears im going to have to draw the picture and actually color it, since the level of reading comprehension and ability to discern underlying meaning in a sentence has apparently gone the way of the dodo.

The point is not that the system is broken, its that IT SUCKS.  Its exactly like you said, you have to be responsible for yourself.  Now that would be fine, except that in dungeons the boss mobs can quite easily 2 shot you.  So despite player skill you will invariably get situations where you're up shit creek without a paddle.  Last night i did story mode arah and the bits on the air ships was basically death a thon since half the area would get carpetted by bombs that knocked you over and then you get swarmed by mobs.

Now, ive played tanks in every MMO except WOW starting with EQ1, so please, don't talk to me about personal responsibility.  You can keep trying to imply things about me but it doesnt make them true, it just makes you look like a presumptive douche.

As for money. People aren't making stuff up when they say this is literally one of the easiest MMOs to earn money in. I personally tend to make between 1-5g a night (on a casual night). Some players can make as much as 100g in one night. However, I won't get into how markets work, and how to use them to your advantage. You obviously don't care about that, and don't feel like you should have to to make money. And I get that. So, assuming you don't use the TP at all, you still make more money than you spend through general travel costs & repairs. The trade-off is that if you are constantly dying, or waypointing, you will be using these services far in excess of what you should be. That's not a design flaw. It's the game's way of not rewarding failure. You can literally go to any map, do a dynamic event, and between the reward for completion & selling the items you end up getting (not even on the TP, just to some random NPC merchant) you will come out with more money than you started. Period. I'm sorry to say, that if that's a problem for you, then I can't think of a single MMO that makes it easier for you to make money. Even including games  that don't have repair costs.

So, basically you're saying that the "normal" way to play an MMO is to game the auction house? You are correct, i am aware of it, and no i don't do it due to a personal choice.  I'm not the type of guy who likes to get ahead in life by stepping on the backs of others.  Clearly you dont have an issue with that.

As for "using these services far in excess of what they're intended", uhm, bullshit.  Once again ill spell it out for you. When 1 death means 1.5s worth of repair costs and 1.5-2s worth of port costs, and the average event which can take 5-10min or longer only rewards less than 2s.  The issue is not frequency of use, its the overall base costs vs rewards for pve content.  It just doesnt scale properly at the higher levels. Your costs go up but your income doesn go up accordingly.

Ive never had any game where i've seen repeated discussions in /ooc (or /map for this game) about how people were sick of feeling like they are constantly on the verge of or are actually broke.  Yes, if you dont craft and sell all your mats, then you can come out ahead, but its not on the order that i should be.  In roughly 5 hours of playing today i made a little over 1g, and that included finding 5 of 6 orichalcum nodes, etc.

That also gets back to the first point on class mechanics. First learn how they work, and how to use your skills, so you aren't constantly dying and needing to repair.

As for the mystic forge.. that's not a requirement of the game. It's an extra system if you want to try and figure out how to get really obscure items. It has nothing to do w/ GW1 and is a feature entirely specific to GW2. I'm sorry you have trouble using google, though.

Not required huh?  Where else do you get legendary weapons?  Oh, thats right, nowhere except the mystic forge.  Sounds pretty required to me. The other point is i shouldnt have to use google to figure things like that out.  The problem is they provide literally no way in game to discover things other than trial and error.  Even back in the days of EQ before websites existed that told you how to do quests and things, they actually put things in the quest text or gave you clues along the way so you could actually figure it out of your own accord IN GAME.  Apparently anet is so lazy they just decided to use the fact that they knew people would google after the harder core fanboys figured stuff out through trial and error and posted it on the internet.

I hate to say it, but you sound like you really just don't 'get it'. You remind me of a person I know in game, who makes absolutely zero effort to try and learn the game. Instead he just bitches & complains about everything, inspite others trying to teach him what he's missunderstanding. The game is hardly perfect, and I think it has a lot of areas that could use improvement, but threads like this just annoy me. It's because there is no effort to try and understand the game in your words. You are making assumptions left and right, and making it clear that you have no interest in trying to educate yourself, then blame the game for your own ignorance.

I'd rather see threads highlighting legitimate issues with the game, rather than these nonsensical rants. There are things Anet should be improving upon, but they won't if all they're seeing are threads like this that can be responded to with a measely 'you need to learn how to play the game'.

You really are just trying way too hard to sound like you passively don't really care, but man you just felt obligated to post.  When you read something with a pre bias and respond to issues that werent even brought up its called a straw man. Read through the actual thread and you will see there are people on both sides who clearly understood my points and either agreed or disagreed.

Its not an issue of whats right or whats wrong.  Its an issue of, MY OPINION of the systems in the game is that they are stupid and fail at a basic level.  It doesnt mean i dont understand how they work, or not know how to properly utilize them.  I know it probably makes you feel like your smart to denigrate me and imply that i somehow "dont understand" but it simply isnt the case.

 

 

"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."

- Friedrich Nietzsche

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