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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Are MMORPG players really this anti-social?

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142 posts found
  DarkVagabond

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/16/06
Posts: 238

9/28/12 11:13:16 AM#41

I honestly do want my MMO's to not only encourage cooperation and communication, I want the player to be sharply disadvantaged if they refuse to do so.

It seems that with every launch that I've bothered to participate in the chat channels at best are a billboard for flame wars and at their worst just an empty box wasting space.

Everyones soloing everything, dungeons and storyline instances are being designed almost entirely for the solo player and the users themselves intentionally isolate themselves from the populace barely associating with their pre-existing niche groups. In fact, most groups I find that would be label elitists are generally the ones more willing to reach out to unknown individuals to offer and to request help.

 

Ironic, I would think, that a genre founded by stereotyped sociophobes is losing its social elements as a wider range of people partake.

  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

9/28/12 11:19:33 AM#42
Originally posted by Kyleran

So I think what is missing from modern MMO's is the opportunity for socializing.

Your average oh call it 30-40 minutes instance run provides ample opportunity.

If you can stop people shouting "gogogogogo" to shave off another three minutes, that is.

What's our working label for someone who's almost always partnered up with specific other players full time?

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  fenistil

Novice Member

Joined: 9/22/11
Posts: 3016

9/28/12 11:27:28 AM#43
Originally posted by Loktofeit

So you agree with me that people who want mechanics designed to make others interact with them to compensate for their inability to initiate interaction are off their rocker. Thank you.

Either you're trolling or you don't understand.

No some people want to have things that make players dependant on each other and that make them influence each other. That activities if complex enough also require long-term cooperation which frequently also include socialization.

 

So no there are some people that want some separate games that include diffrent kind of experience and cooperation. You're taking some real world social disorders and trying to somehow fit them into discussion. 

Trolling? Complexes?

You feel that someone is attacking you or tryign to take something away from you?

If I ever made you feel that way then I want to say that was not my intention.

 

---------

If anything games that are designed to make possible to achieve everything without talking and interacting socially are types of games that are more friendly to people that have problems with interacting with other people. 

  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 18726

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

9/28/12 11:30:03 AM#44
Originally posted by Icewhite
Originally posted by Kyleran

So I think what is missing from modern MMO's is the opportunity for socializing.

Your average oh call it 30-40 minutes instance run provides ample opportunity.

If you can stop people shouting "gogogogogo" to shave off another three minutes, that is.

What's our working label for someone who's almost always partnered up with specific other players full time?

Well see, that's one thing that's changed a lot IMO, I recall playing vanilla WOW back in 2004-2006 and there still was enough downtime between fights that I actually socialized quite a bit in pug dungeons and even full on AQ 40 raids. (actually with all the wipes we had lots of time for chatting, falling asleep while waiting at 1:00 in the morning was a bigger issue)

I went back for Cata and everyone was like, go, go go, just as you said.  I kept stopping to try and type something to my group mates (no doubt some fabulous witticism) only to look up and see the rest of them had left me standing in my tracks and they were off in the next room. (and eventually threatening kick me for not keeping up or doing DPS or healing them, something trival like that)

Finish up the instance and perhaps I'd see the first chat from any of them, saying either "thanks for the group" and drop or.... "again?"

Regarding your last comment, I'd call those folks "lucky", and in fact its usually the folks who have regular gaming partners (wives, relatives, real life friends) who are most often likely to tell me that there are no issues in socialization in MMORPG's.

Not for them maybe, the rest of us are not quite so fortunate I guess.

 

 

"In these forums 'honest' seems to be a symonym for 'hates the game just like I do'" - ohioastro
Kyleran - Bitter Vet ™ since 2006
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 18726

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

9/28/12 11:34:24 AM#45
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by fenistil
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by fenistil
Originally posted by Loktofeit
 

Oh man.  Well ok.  Since you brough dating.

People in clubs, bars, etc main let's call it ugly "objective" it to have good time and / or pick-up someone. In order to do this you HAVE TO be social.    You're forced to be social or you won't have fun.  Unless your kind of fun is dancing alone or getting drunk yourself in bar or somewhere in the corner.  Same with making a move on someone. 

You just said perfect example of how people are forced to be social. If they want to have fun with other people. (unless they pay someone to be with them, but I would not consider this having fun with someone.

That's an extremely odd view of voluntarily going to a location to accomplish a voluntary social goal through one's own efforts and initiative. 

Same as it is extremly odd view of being forced to voluntarily playing a game to accomplish a voluntary game goal through one's own efforts and initiative.

-------------------------

Thing is playing a game with design that anyone see as 'forced' is also totally voluntary.  People say - they are forced to be social in a game because in example there is some kind of "wait time" like travelling to an dungeon on a ship and not being instantly teleported there. (simplistic example for discussion matter).

Thing is this is voluntarily things. You don't have to play a game if you don't like how things are done in this game. Noone is forcing you. 

It took me alot of time to realize that.  I was playing mmorpg's that turned to fast matchmaking instanced gameplay and I was vocal about it. I did not like that focus in many mmorpg's changed to almost solely playing in various kinds of instances using matchmaking systems. 

I also felt that I am FORCED to play those mmorpg's in their new way. Because it was practially impossible to play not using this since almost everyone was using those tools right. I realized that noone force me to do anything. I was forcing myself to still play those games.   I left and I almost don't play any mmorpg's since I cannot find one of decent quality and with design I like at same time.

 

So if there will be some new game some day that will have so called "forced social mechanics" in your view - you will NOT be forced to play it. Since noone will stand with gun in their hand to force you play it.

----------------------

Games are totally volunarily activities. Exactly same as going out to club and socializing with other people.  You're no more forced in any game that you're in club.

So you agree with me that people who want mechanics designed to make others interact with them to compensate for their inability to initiate interaction are off their rocker. Thank you.

WOW, I so totally disagree with you, I hope they don't listen to you too often over there at CCP. 

(and thanks for insulting we socially inadequate individuals, really appreciate that, not)

 

 

 

"In these forums 'honest' seems to be a symonym for 'hates the game just like I do'" - ohioastro
Kyleran - Bitter Vet ™ since 2006
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

9/28/12 11:34:51 AM#46
Originally posted by GrumpyMel2

In MUDS community and your interaction with it was REALLY IMPORTANT and the rulesets and designs reinforced that.

Of course, the consequences of misbehavior were an order of magnitude more serious, too.

I worked for one of the only for-profit companies that ever actually banned players for violation of roleplaying rules.

Gosh, 'we consider the integrity of the game's vision more important than the loss of accounts'?  When's the last time you heard a company announcement even in that general ballpark?

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 18726

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

9/28/12 11:36:23 AM#47
Originally posted by Icewhite
Originally posted by GrumpyMel2

In MUDS community and your interaction with it was REALLY IMPORTANT and the rulesets and designs reinforced that.

Of course, the consequences of misbehavior were an order of magnitude more serious, too.

I worked for one of the only for-profit companies that ever actually banned players for violation of roleplaying rules.

Gosh, 'we consider the integrity of the game's vision more important than the loss of accounts'?  When's the last time you heard a company announcement even in that general ballpark?

Aw, c'mon, you're making that up, more likely to see a dragon in the real world. 

"In these forums 'honest' seems to be a symonym for 'hates the game just like I do'" - ohioastro
Kyleran - Bitter Vet ™ since 2006
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

9/28/12 11:37:37 AM#48
Originally posted by Kyleran

I went back for Cata and everyone was like, go, go go, just as you said.

What happened in-between?  Blizz tied post-cap advancement directly to sheer repetition.

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

9/28/12 11:39:18 AM#49
Originally posted by Kyleran

Not for them maybe, the rest of us are not quite so fortunate I guess.

 

 

Huh.  All this time I've just been calling it 'guilded'.

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 18726

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

9/28/12 11:52:14 AM#50
Originally posted by Icewhite
Originally posted by Kyleran

Not for them maybe, the rest of us are not quite so fortunate I guess.

 

 

Huh.  All this time I've just been calling it 'guilded'.

I dunno, with the current quest base design of most MMO's, I find it rare that a guildmate is running the same chain or even the same dungeon) until I get to end game when we all tend to catch up.

Played TERA, SWTOR and TSW this year and in every case most of my guildmates leveled at different speeds and if there was more than a couple anywhere near me it was unusal, and even less likely we were on the same quest chains.

 

"In these forums 'honest' seems to be a symonym for 'hates the game just like I do'" - ohioastro
Kyleran - Bitter Vet ™ since 2006
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  TalulaRose

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/27/12
Posts: 407

9/28/12 11:58:15 AM#51

The people who play MMORPGs for the social grouping/guild aspect were playing MMOs in the beginning. This wasn't an overly large group of people. In order to make more money MMOs catered to the solo game and the single player RPG crowd. They play the game as a single player RPG and there are alot more of them.

As more and more solo players entered into MMORPGs you saw more and more solo features being added until what you see today. MMOs that no longer required any type of grouping. These types of players consider someone in the same area as them who helps kill a mob as grouping even though they have no type of interaction at all. You can even belong to multiple guilds without having to actually be in the guild, you are there as just a number just to get guild perks.

 

The genre is very confused atm, there are many a post where people argue what MMORPG means with the biggest being some say it means grouping and interacting and the other side saying it just means being online with a bunch of people.

 

My thought, how is being online and playing solo any different than plaing a single player game offline? For me there is no difference. Playing a MMO solo is juet the same as playing a single player RPG offline.

  Quirhid

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/28/05
Posts: 5492

I dare you to pin a label on me.

9/28/12 11:58:19 AM#52
Originally posted by GrumpyMel2
Originally posted by Loktofeit
There's an unrealistic expectation among some MMO gamers that others should make the effort to interact with them. Some even go as far as wanting games changed to force others to have to be tethered to them in hopes that it will also force others to interact with them.

Baseball is an inherently team based game. You really can't play baseball without being part of a team. The rules are designed to enforce interdependancy between the players and require teamwork if you want to achieve anything in play.

Golf is an inherenitly individual based game. You generaly play as an individual. You can play around others or choose to interact with others as you play, but the rules do nothing to support or encourage Team based play. You are essentialy playing as an individual whether you choose to do so or not.

Baseball and Golf offer entirely different play experiences.

Some people like to play baseball...

Some people like to play golf..

Some people like to play both...

 

What is the problem with that?

The problem is that playing a team sport is not exactly socializing. This was discussed in another thread too. Incidentally, many people socialize while playing golf. Playing a team sport or not has little to do with socializing.

I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  TalulaRose

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/27/12
Posts: 407

9/28/12 12:03:46 PM#53
Originally posted by Quirhid
Originally posted by GrumpyMel2
Originally posted by Loktofeit
There's an unrealistic expectation among some MMO gamers that others should make the effort to interact with them. Some even go as far as wanting games changed to force others to have to be tethered to them in hopes that it will also force others to interact with them.

Baseball is an inherently team based game. You really can't play baseball without being part of a team. The rules are designed to enforce interdependancy between the players and require teamwork if you want to achieve anything in play.

Golf is an inherenitly individual based game. You generaly play as an individual. You can play around others or choose to interact with others as you play, but the rules do nothing to support or encourage Team based play. You are essentialy playing as an individual whether you choose to do so or not.

Baseball and Golf offer entirely different play experiences.

Some people like to play baseball...

Some people like to play golf..

Some people like to play both...

 

What is the problem with that?

The problem is that playing a team sport is not exactly socializing. This was discussed in another thread too. Incidentally, many people socialize while playing golf. Playing a team sport or not has little to do with socializing.

I played hockey for 12 years. I never once saw anyone who never spoke to anyone else on the team once. Everyone talked to each other, we all joked with each other, we all learned together and learned how to work as a team. Not sure how anyone can say playing a team sport doesn't involve socializing.

  Quirhid

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/28/05
Posts: 5492

I dare you to pin a label on me.

9/28/12 12:06:24 PM#54
Originally posted by Kyleran
Originally posted by Loktofeit
 

So you agree with me that people who want mechanics designed to make others interact with them to compensate for their inability to initiate interaction are off their rocker. Thank you.

WOW, I so totally disagree with you, I hope they don't listen to you too often over there at CCP. 

(and thanks for insulting we socially inadequate individuals, really appreciate that, not)

But isn't it exactly that? Forcing other people to interact with you. Demand more downtime and group dependancy, lack of LFG tools or auction house... just to make people talk to you. It is mad.

They are all major inconveniences too, you know. And anything forced is generally bad.

I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  Quirhid

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/28/05
Posts: 5492

I dare you to pin a label on me.

9/28/12 12:13:40 PM#55
Originally posted by TalulaRose
Originally posted by Quirhid
 

I played hockey for 12 years. I never once saw anyone who never spoke to anyone else on the team once. Everyone talked to each other, we all joked with each other, we all learned together and learned how to work as a team. Not sure how anyone can say playing a team sport doesn't involve socializing.

It doesn't need socializing. Believe me I've played my share of teamsports (soccer, volleyball, basketball). You don't need to know everyone in order to play with them. The most "social" experience in sport that I've come across was surprisingly in martial arts - not a teamsport.

If you have spent time in the armed forces, you'd know that an ad hoc group of soldiers can pull together and work as a unit very effectively very quickly. They don't even need to know eachother's names (although it helps somewhat).

I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  TalulaRose

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/27/12
Posts: 407

9/28/12 12:13:54 PM#56
Originally posted by Quirhid
Originally posted by Kyleran
Originally posted by Loktofeit
 

So you agree with me that people who want mechanics designed to make others interact with them to compensate for their inability to initiate interaction are off their rocker. Thank you.

WOW, I so totally disagree with you, I hope they don't listen to you too often over there at CCP. 

(and thanks for insulting we socially inadequate individuals, really appreciate that, not)

But isn't it exactly that? Forcing other people to interact with you. Demand more downtime and group dependancy, lack of LFG tools or auction house... just to make people talk to you. It is mad.

They are all major inconveniences too, you know. And anything forced is generally bad.

Its not forced. Before you play the game most players do research on what the game has to offer and then "makes a choice" to play or not to play. If the choose to play a game that is based on group play "it was your choice".

 

Stop playing the victim, it was your choice to play the gameknowing what the game is about. And if you didn't do your research, again, it was your choice. But most people will choose to blame the game and not accept they made the wrong choice.

  TalulaRose

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/27/12
Posts: 407

9/28/12 12:17:48 PM#57
Originally posted by Quirhid
Originally posted by TalulaRose
Originally posted by Quirhid
 

I played hockey for 12 years. I never once saw anyone who never spoke to anyone else on the team once. Everyone talked to each other, we all joked with each other, we all learned together and learned how to work as a team. Not sure how anyone can say playing a team sport doesn't involve socializing.

It doesn't need socializing. Believe me I've played my share of teamsports (soccer, volleyball, basketball). You don't need to know everyone in order to play with them. The most "social" experience in sport that I've come across was surprisingly in martial arts - not a teamsport.

If you have spent time in the armed forces, you'd know that an ad hoc group of soldiers can pull together and work as a unit very effectively very quickly. They don't even need to know eachother's names (although it helps somewhat).

Really, an army analogy? Don't people from the army form some of the closest bonds. Calling each oither brothers and such. I would think that being in the army is one of the most extreme forms of socializing to the point where they have their own culture.

Its obvious you do not know what you are speaking of.

 

Discussion over.

  GrumpyMel2

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/24/09
Posts: 1789

9/28/12 12:24:04 PM#58
Originally posted by Quirhid
Originally posted by GrumpyMel2
Originally posted by Loktofeit
There's an unrealistic expectation among some MMO gamers that others should make the effort to interact with them. Some even go as far as wanting games changed to force others to have to be tethered to them in hopes that it will also force others to interact with them.

Baseball is an inherently team based game. You really can't play baseball without being part of a team. The rules are designed to enforce interdependancy between the players and require teamwork if you want to achieve anything in play.

Golf is an inherenitly individual based game. You generaly play as an individual. You can play around others or choose to interact with others as you play, but the rules do nothing to support or encourage Team based play. You are essentialy playing as an individual whether you choose to do so or not.

Baseball and Golf offer entirely different play experiences.

Some people like to play baseball...

Some people like to play golf..

Some people like to play both...

 

What is the problem with that?

The problem is that playing a team sport is not exactly socializing. This was discussed in another thread too. Incidentally, many people socialize while playing golf. Playing a team sport or not has little to do with socializing.

I'm guessing from that statement that you never actualy played a team sport.

  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 18726

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

9/28/12 12:24:46 PM#59
Originally posted by Quirhid
Originally posted by Kyleran
Originally posted by Loktofeit
 

So you agree with me that people who want mechanics designed to make others interact with them to compensate for their inability to initiate interaction are off their rocker. Thank you.

WOW, I so totally disagree with you, I hope they don't listen to you too often over there at CCP. 

(and thanks for insulting we socially inadequate individuals, really appreciate that, not)

But isn't it exactly that? Forcing other people to interact with you. Demand more downtime and group dependancy, lack of LFG tools or auction house... just to make people talk to you. It is mad.

They are all major inconveniences too, you know. And anything forced is generally bad.

You call it forcing, I call it providing the opportunity to socialize.

By removing the opportunity, socialization in MMO's has gone downward, regardless how you look at it you can't disagree with it.

Sometimes people don't realize what is for their own good, nor what they lose by getting their way.

 

 

"In these forums 'honest' seems to be a symonym for 'hates the game just like I do'" - ohioastro
Kyleran - Bitter Vet ™ since 2006
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 18726

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

9/28/12 12:27:14 PM#60
Originally posted by Quirhid
Originally posted by GrumpyMel2
Originally posted by Loktofeit
There's an unrealistic expectation among some MMO gamers that others should make the effort to interact with them. Some even go as far as wanting games changed to force others to have to be tethered to them in hopes that it will also force others to interact with them.

Baseball is an inherently team based game. You really can't play baseball without being part of a team. The rules are designed to enforce interdependancy between the players and require teamwork if you want to achieve anything in play.

Golf is an inherenitly individual based game. You generaly play as an individual. You can play around others or choose to interact with others as you play, but the rules do nothing to support or encourage Team based play. You are essentialy playing as an individual whether you choose to do so or not.

Baseball and Golf offer entirely different play experiences.

Some people like to play baseball...

Some people like to play golf..

Some people like to play both...

 

What is the problem with that?

The problem is that playing a team sport is not exactly socializing. This was discussed in another thread too. Incidentally, many people socialize while playing golf. Playing a team sport or not has little to do with socializing.

Ah golf, now there's an activity that really provides for a lot of downtime between gameplay and therefore is full of socialization, in fact, might be the socialization king in that respect, probably why so many businessmen take up the game.

But same holds true for things like bowling, bridge, and several others, lots of opportunity to socialize due to the slower paced gameplay.

 

"In these forums 'honest' seems to be a symonym for 'hates the game just like I do'" - ohioastro
Kyleran - Bitter Vet ™ since 2006
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

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