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World of Warcraft

World of Warcraft 

General Discussion  » MOP sales down?

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163 posts found
  Panther2103

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/09/08
Posts: 2073

9/28/12 2:22:55 AM#21
Originally posted by expresso
Originally posted by Thanes
Originally posted by Zeppelin4

http://venturebeat.com/2012/09/27/world-of-warcraft-mists-of-pandaria-performance-disappointing/

 

Take it for what its worth.

Link:

It looks like it’s going to take more than kung fu fighting pandas to save Azeroth.

Sales of the World of Warcraft: Mists of Pandaria expansion have been disappointing, according to analysts at investment bank Lazard Capital Markets. The fourth expansion for Blizzard Entertainment’s massively popular online game has sold between 600,000 and 700,000 copies at retail since its launch earlier this week, Lazard estimates.

Historically, each new World of Warcraft expansion has outsold its predecessors, Lazard said, but sales of Pandaria are down 60 percent from the previous expansion pack, Cataclysm, which has sold 3.3 million units since its launch in December 2010. While these figures don’t take digital market performance into account, Lazard analysts believe Pandaria’s digital sales won’t make up for its poor retail performance.

A drop in subscription numbers is a possible explanation for Pandaria’s struggles. Back in August, publisher Activision Blizzard revealed World of Warcraft lost over one million subscriptions in the last fiscal quarter.

About 25 percent of Activision Blizzard’s revenue comes from World of Warcraft, along with 50 percent of its operating income, which has analysts concerned about the game’s continued longevity.


 

What I don't get if those figures are true.  How does WoW have 9 million active subscibers if only 3.3 million copies of Cataclysm were sold?

/edit oh I see- retail vs. digital.  You really need to include digital if you're making a point, imo.

Venturebeat kinda lost credibility for me as they're quoting Cata numbers incorrectly, Cata sold 3.3million in the first 24 hours and went on to sell 4.7 million in the first month

so where are the other 5 million did they not buy it? the other 5million are in china where Cata wasn't avaliable at the time.

I had not heard of venturebeat until I started snooping around articles on the website. The second article I read after this horrid exageration was an article stating there are rumors of Nexon and NCsoft buying valve. They obviously just take anything that is even remotely able to be talked about and ramp it up, nobody can buy valve, gabe said it himself. This is just a really obnoxious news source that will bite at anything.

  JimmyYO

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/13/11
Posts: 541

9/28/12 2:29:52 AM#22

Well I can't speak for anyone else but I have to say gameplay wise MoP is EASILY the worst expansion, even if you ignore the panda-ness entirely. The instances are boring and extremely easy even by WoW standards.

After my 10th quest I was literally nodding off. The game has just failed to evolve with the genre and in turn has released a "done to death" expansion that can no longer even trick people into thinking it's fresh. Even visually, every new area looks like a rehashed version of an old one. Buy this game at your own risk, you were warned.

  Axxar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/09/08
Posts: 2005

"See how I reward those who fail me!"

9/28/12 3:09:28 AM#23
Originally posted by JimmyYO

The instances are boring and extremely easy even by WoW standards.

This is what I'm really dreading when my Pandaren hits max. I really enjoyed Cataclysm because it made you actually have to pay attention during Heroics. Then they nerfed the Hell out of the game just a couple of weeks after I hit max level. I quit shortly after. If I find myself nodding off during instances once more you can be sure my sub will be short-lived. It's why I quit Wrath and why I quit Cata.

And no, I'm not into raiding, which is unfortunate since it seems to be where the only challenge is found.

It really irks me that Heroics are made super easy. The whole point of Heroics was to provide the same content but in a harder version so you couldn't watch TV while playing. Now both difficulty levels are for people not interested in any challenge, just like Wrath.

  Axxar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/09/08
Posts: 2005

"See how I reward those who fail me!"

9/28/12 3:17:00 AM#24
It seems most people are buying it digitally from the Blizzard store these days. Apparently I'm the only guy I know who bought it from a retailer. That probably explains why retail sales of MoP are so low compared to previous expansions.
  Muke

Elite Member

Joined: 1/04/07
Posts: 1612

9/28/12 3:19:31 AM#25
Originally posted by Deathenger

Last I checked xfire, they still havent recovered from the loss of players when GW2 released even after MoP.

 

I dont think that article can really accuratly represent digital sales from the WoW main site so I'm sure its much higher than that. On active subscribers alone, even if they only sold MoP to half their subscribers it should still outsell GW2

Xfire is THE benchmark for MMO statistics, because 2% of all MMO gamers use it.   ^^

"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"

  fenistil

Novice Member

Joined: 9/22/11
Posts: 3016

9/28/12 3:21:34 AM#26
Originally posted by expresso
Originally posted by Thanes
Originally posted by Zeppelin4

http://venturebeat.com/2012/09/27/world-of-warcraft-mists-of-pandaria-performance-disappointing/

 

Take it for what its worth.

Link:

It looks like it’s going to take more than kung fu fighting pandas to save Azeroth.

Sales of the World of Warcraft: Mists of Pandaria expansion have been disappointing, according to analysts at investment bank Lazard Capital Markets. The fourth expansion for Blizzard Entertainment’s massively popular online game has sold between 600,000 and 700,000 copies at retail since its launch earlier this week, Lazard estimates.

Historically, each new World of Warcraft expansion has outsold its predecessors, Lazard said, but sales of Pandaria are down 60 percent from the previous expansion pack, Cataclysm, which has sold 3.3 million units since its launch in December 2010. While these figures don’t take digital market performance into account, Lazard analysts believe Pandaria’s digital sales won’t make up for its poor retail performance.

A drop in subscription numbers is a possible explanation for Pandaria’s struggles. Back in August, publisher Activision Blizzard revealed World of Warcraft lost over one million subscriptions in the last fiscal quarter.

About 25 percent of Activision Blizzard’s revenue comes from World of Warcraft, along with 50 percent of its operating income, which has analysts concerned about the game’s continued longevity.


 

What I don't get if those figures are true.  How does WoW have 9 million active subscibers if only 3.3 million copies of Cataclysm were sold?

/edit oh I see- retail vs. digital.  You really need to include digital if you're making a point, imo.

Venturebeat kinda lost credibility for me as they're quoting Cata numbers incorrectly, Cata sold 3.3million in the first 24 hours and went on to sell 4.7 million in the first month

so where are the other 5 million did they not buy it? the other 5million are in china where Cata wasn't avaliable at the time.

It is not about avability and not.  Players in China don't have to buy WoW expansions.  When they come to China they just are applied to servers and avabile to every player afaik    So WoW expansions will never have any sales in China.

They are paying by hour for playing though.

 

Think this site is trying to tell 600-700 thousand + digital in first 24 hour vs 3,3 Cata in 24 hour.   So that's why they have not brough 4,7 mln first month.   MOP is not one month on market. Kinda logical no?

  Warband

Novice Member

Joined: 5/02/10
Posts: 735

9/28/12 3:22:15 AM#27

There's clearly a very big issue here. Anyone trying toi brush it away as just digital is being delusional. 60% down on retail is a massive difference. Unless your going to imply digital went up by a massive amount (when digital may as well have gone down) stating digital sales is pointless.

That's ignoring that the Eu Blizzard store is overpriced so many in the EU may not have in fact bought digital and may have been more likely to buy at retail.

Obviously this isn't the full picture but the information doesn't bode well for the expansion

  Lobotomist

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/20/07
Posts: 4818

I got so much trouble on my mind Refuse to lose.

9/28/12 3:26:37 AM#28

I see you guys dont understand much about statistics .

Even if 1% of MMO players use Xfire. That data could be used to gauge game activity and popularity rise / drops.

Same goes for digital vs retail sales. You know what is the ratio of digital vs retail buyers. Than you use this ratio on retail sales data.

If the retail had disappointing sales - it points out poor interest in the game.

 

BTW - As someone who bought D3. I can tell you that I went for retail. Because Blizzard charges same for both (?).

But if you buy retail you get a very nice box.

  cinos

Novice Member

Joined: 8/22/05
Posts: 975

9/28/12 3:37:01 AM#29
Originally posted by superniceguy
Originally posted by Deathenger

Last I checked xfire, they still havent recovered from the loss of players when GW2 released even after MoP.

 

I dont think that article can really accuratly represent digital sales from the WoW main site so I'm sure its much higher than that. On active subscribers alone, even if they only sold MoP to half their subscribers it should still outsell GW2

WOW is back up to the #2 spot on Xfire, and hours played is almost double of GW2

Yet even with those numbers it still hasn't gotten near GW2 launch xfire numbers.

With that in mind I'm beginning to wonder if MoP hasn't in fact sold as much as GW2. Granted XFire isn't the be all end all of indicators but it's a pretty handy tool for trends, if a little basic.

At least with articles such as this starting to come out, it will prompt Blizzard to show off their numbers. Assuming they can disprove them of course. A silence at this point would be very telling.

  ohpower

Novice Member

Joined: 5/13/12
Posts: 72

9/28/12 3:42:25 AM#30

Lobotomist you're right up to a point: problem is xfire users are a very specific population. It's like taking the 1% richest people in a country and saying they represent the country (might work up to a point if you're a Republican though...): xfire users are dedicated enough to want to show off how many hours they played.

However, it should be indeed possible, by comparing with Diablo 3 percentages of retail/online to have a fair estimate of the number of online sales. I guess that's approximately the math they did at the consultant (maybe adding a "margin of error" due to the fact that an expac must have more online sales). In any case, not definitive by far, but we'll have to see

ps: on the xfire thing, look it up. Although the number of hours is big, there are nearly as many players in WoW as in GW2 (the pop of which has stabilised, although they play a small number of hours). It's certainly not a tsunami.

  Speedhaak

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/21/06
Posts: 292

'At the end of time the ultimate computation will simulate the Universe and resurrect the dead!'

9/28/12 3:44:05 AM#31
Originally posted by FrodoFragins
Not including digital sales is a big problem with their assertion.  I'll wait to hear blizzards release.  If they don't release any numbers in the first month then that will be a major verification of lackluster numbers.

Of course it is. It's almost ignorant to release figures like they have when they don't have access to digital sales figures. Still though, I would imagine a lot of people are like me - This is the first time I have not purchased and participated in a World of Warcraft expansion. I've simply had enough of it. Level to new cap, grind for gear all over again and raid Dungeons like we've been doing since 2005. 

  Acidon

Elite Member

Joined: 9/09/05
Posts: 718

Permafried

9/28/12 3:46:56 AM#32
Originally posted by Panther2103
Originally posted by expresso
Originally posted by Thanes
Originally posted by Zeppelin4

http://venturebeat.com/2012/09/27/world-of-warcraft-mists-of-pandaria-performance-disappointing/

 

Take it for what its worth.

Link:

It looks like it’s going to take more than kung fu fighting pandas to save Azeroth.

Sales of the World of Warcraft: Mists of Pandaria expansion have been disappointing, according to analysts at investment bank Lazard Capital Markets. The fourth expansion for Blizzard Entertainment’s massively popular online game has sold between 600,000 and 700,000 copies at retail since its launch earlier this week, Lazard estimates.

Historically, each new World of Warcraft expansion has outsold its predecessors, Lazard said, but sales of Pandaria are down 60 percent from the previous expansion pack, Cataclysm, which has sold 3.3 million units since its launch in December 2010. While these figures don’t take digital market performance into account, Lazard analysts believe Pandaria’s digital sales won’t make up for its poor retail performance.

A drop in subscription numbers is a possible explanation for Pandaria’s struggles. Back in August, publisher Activision Blizzard revealed World of Warcraft lost over one million subscriptions in the last fiscal quarter.

About 25 percent of Activision Blizzard’s revenue comes from World of Warcraft, along with 50 percent of its operating income, which has analysts concerned about the game’s continued longevity.


 

What I don't get if those figures are true.  How does WoW have 9 million active subscibers if only 3.3 million copies of Cataclysm were sold?

/edit oh I see- retail vs. digital.  You really need to include digital if you're making a point, imo.

Venturebeat kinda lost credibility for me as they're quoting Cata numbers incorrectly, Cata sold 3.3million in the first 24 hours and went on to sell 4.7 million in the first month

so where are the other 5 million did they not buy it? the other 5million are in china where Cata wasn't avaliable at the time.

I had not heard of venturebeat until I started snooping around articles on the website. The second article I read after this horrid exageration was an article stating there are rumors of Nexon and NCsoft buying valve. They obviously just take anything that is even remotely able to be talked about and ramp it up, nobody can buy valve, gabe said it himself. This is just a really obnoxious news source that will bite at anything.

 

Massively bit as well, on both accounts.  I consider them a pretty stand-up site personally.

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  VengeSunsoar

Elite Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4824

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

9/28/12 3:47:07 AM#33
Originally posted by Lobotomist

I see you guys dont understand much about statistics .

Even if 1% of MMO players use Xfire. That data could be used to gauge game activity and popularity rise / drops.

Same goes for digital vs retail sales. You know what is the ratio of digital vs retail buyers. Than you use this ratio on retail sales data.

If the retail had disappointing sales - it points out poor interest in the game.

 

BTW - As someone who bought D3. I can tell you that I went for retail. Because Blizzard charges same for both (?).

But if you buy retail you get a very nice box.

No it couldn't.  You would need to determine if that 1% is a true reflection of that particular MMO's playerbase and X-fire does not provide that explanation.

At best you could say that X-fire is a representative of people who know about games and play enough of them to have heard of X-fire.  It is a whole different ballgame to say that that group is the same as a true reflection of the random person in the said game. 

If you just go by X-fire you are looking at a skewed or misrepresentation of the population.

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  BrotherD

Novice Member

Joined: 5/21/08
Posts: 52

9/28/12 3:53:59 AM#34

This crap again. Everytime there a big launch of anything its this crap.

And please note that digital sales of games have increased a lot since 2010 (and box sales gone down).

Currently playing: AoC, RIFT, Champions Online, DDO, LORTO, STO and Tribes: Ascend
Have Played: TSW, SWG, AO, EVE, WOW, EQ, EQ2, SW:TOR, GW,CoH, DCUO, RotMG, WAR,

  Aeolron

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/24/11
Posts: 664

Everyones a mmo vet these days :P

9/28/12 3:55:51 AM#35

Well today I walked into five stores all big box ones, EB games , gamestop , walmart , ect and I have noticed TONS of MOP expacs just sitting  there ,I was like hmmm thats strange because the previous expacs were gone in a day or two now hell the one EB games I went too had 10 collectors versions still sitting there and at the other stores were alittle higher and some alittle lower , but not by much.

Even the reps at these places said that the game is not selling well at all , I think that the giant is taking a dive, and if that is'nt proof goto your retailer and check , still have some in stock yep! Hell I had a hard time trying to get borderlands 2 , took me five days to land me a copy!

 

P.S and the giant takes a dive!

  Phry

Elite Member

Joined: 7/01/04
Posts: 5249

9/28/12 3:57:22 AM#36
Im not surprised at all that retail sales would be so low. In the UK at least, you'd struggle to find any retailer that would even sell PC games, you either bought online from amazon etc, or.. and this is probably what most did, upgrade your account directly at Battlenet, press a button vs mail order.. retailers have been losing out on game sales for PC's now for a good long time, and when Consoles finally catch up and start doing the same, then boxed games will most probably cease to exist. it would not surprise me in the least, if 95 percent of MoP sales were digital. Thats how i bought my 'copy' of MoP, and its also how i buy most of my games now, usually through Steam. When figures are finally released for MoP sales, including Digital ones, then i have no doubt we'll be seeing some very impressive figures. As for venturebeat, its for the kiddies, nobody with any sense takes them seriously, their a bit like the Sun newspaper, if it wasnt for the pictures on page 3, nobody would read it
  Warband

Novice Member

Joined: 5/02/10
Posts: 735

9/28/12 3:57:24 AM#37
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by Lobotomist

I see you guys dont understand much about statistics .

Even if 1% of MMO players use Xfire. That data could be used to gauge game activity and popularity rise / drops.

Same goes for digital vs retail sales. You know what is the ratio of digital vs retail buyers. Than you use this ratio on retail sales data.

If the retail had disappointing sales - it points out poor interest in the game.

 

BTW - As someone who bought D3. I can tell you that I went for retail. Because Blizzard charges same for both (?).

But if you buy retail you get a very nice box.

No it couldn't.  You would need to determine if that 1% is a true reflection of that particular MMO's playerbase and X-fire does not provide that explanation.

At best you could say that X-fire is a representative of people who know about games and play enough of them to have heard of X-fire.  It is a whole different ballgame to say that that group is the same as a true reflection of the random person in the said game. 

 There's common sense and mathematics that plays a large part you can't ignore or dismiss the data. It may not be a completely accuarate meausre but we just don't have that. 1% is pretty massive source. Consider typical statisctic polling 1000 particiapants with correct population representation. Consider how these 1000 people represent the opinions of millions. Also consider how two people with the same background ethnicty etc can have very different views. It's inherently flawed but it's about as accurate as we can get considering time and money constraints. Now consider a source of ten's/hundreds thousand's in comparison to a few million. It may not have ideal representation but the volume itself in comparison to the source does make up a fair bit of that. If you add in the correct margin's of error, and trends it's still a viable polling source.

  Netspook

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/01/07
Posts: 1440

9/28/12 4:03:48 AM#38
Originally posted by Lobotomist

I see you guys dont understand much about statistics .

Even if 1% of MMO players use Xfire. That data could be used to gauge game activity and popularity rise / drops.

Same goes for digital vs retail sales. You know what is the ratio of digital vs retail buyers. Than you use this ratio on retail sales data.

If the retail had disappointing sales - it points out poor interest in the game.

 

BTW - As someone who bought D3. I can tell you that I went for retail. Because Blizzard charges same for both (?).

But if you buy retail you get a very nice box.

 

You don't know much about statistics, either, it seems. Your argument is only valid if that 1% equals a random selection of MMO players. In my experience, it don't - XFire seems to mostly attract semi-experienced players, I've never heard anyone who consider him-/herself a vet claiming to use it.

Retail doesn't prove shit about the interest in the game. I have 7 friends who play WoW. When Cata released, at least 5 of them bought the retail (I didn't). None of them bought the MoP retail, we all bought digital. I'm pretty sure we're far from the only ones going completely digital.

Nice box? Well, I have bought quite a lot of games digitally, both on steam and others places. It suits me just fine NOT having 200+ boxes gathering dust in my shelves.

  Nitth

Elite Member

Joined: 7/29/10
Posts: 3302

Magic Propels my Rolly Chair.

9/28/12 4:06:48 AM#39


Originally posted by Zeppelin4
While these figures don’t take digital market performance into account

So why are we throwing around accusations without complete statistics?


TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development

  ohpower

Novice Member

Joined: 5/13/12
Posts: 72

9/28/12 4:07:39 AM#40

OK little additional facts

1 the actual source is Banque Lazard, which not is not above error but certainly reliable. These guys are investment banks, not your average mmorpg fan/"journalist". They tell people where to put their money, and don't give a **** about the actual future of the game apart from its financial reports, so I think they can be trusted. (And they very certainly aren't your average consultant: they are the real deal)

2 They predict a sales decrease of 60% from the record of Cata; 3.3*40%= 1.32, meaning they think digital sales make up 50% of sales, which given the broad appeal of WoW (not only guys like you who surf the internet all the time) and the "events" at launch in shops sounds reasonable (and is based on numbers from D3 and such; I downloaded D3 and so did most of you I guess, but 50% of people bought it retail -ps: younger crowds often get things bought in shops, by their parents)

So all in all maybe they are wrong and digitals make up twice as much as retail, in which case it goes up from 1.3 mill to to 1.8... in any case it's half of what Cata sold in the same period of time.

Oh other comparison: GW2 sold 1Mill retail (VGchartz numbers) and 2Mill in all. So 50% digital for an MMORPG seems to be a good estimate.

Hope this helped get the conversation straight

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