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9/28/12 2:08:53 PM#21
My take on all of this is.. What is there target size? As,being Indie I think its wise to aim small and let it catch on from there.. And if your going to use sub/free strategy don't aim for the $15 a month price point, maybe $2 a month will do fine because your gonna need to build a little income so more staff etc can be added once the kickstarter funds go..
Mmo development is a bitch to get off the ground, and I see the next big mmo being themepark/sandbox base mmo because when its all said and done, if your targeting mass market you need to cater to both sides.. and as minecraft has shown there is a lot of creative folks out there that just needs the right tools to go nuts.. |
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9/28/12 2:14:04 PM#22
Originally posted by strangiato2112 Well they did raise 4 million or so.
The reasons for using Kickstarter is not just a matter of bringing light to indie projects, but also seeking alternative ways to fund modern games and developers to let them have more freedom over the game they make. The pathfinder team didn't want a publisher that could turn Pathfinder into anything else but Pathfinder.
Double Fine just as well opted for crowdsourcing to get a game done because they couldn't rely on publishers to accept the concept, but the fact they got $3.3 million for a request of $400k does imply a crowd interest.
And the other thing to consider, especially since I just related Double Fine's game, these aren't all intended to be mainstream titles either. These are things publishers might turn down because they don't cater to mass appeal and instead target personal interests and a resulting niche audience. They may end up being successful and making money if actually made, but most won't take that risk, they want calculated maximums more often.
And so developers, even notable ones, turn to alternative funding sources like Kickstarter. It's not always a matter of indie teams or their aspirations, it's also about finding a system that actually grants you the opportunity to deliver on intentions instead of what another group dictates. As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero. - Vaarsuvius |
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9/28/12 2:38:24 PM#23
I'll bet if Kickstarter qualified as a 501(c)(3) charity (for US tax deduction), they would get a ton of money/donations...
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9/28/12 2:48:34 PM#24
Q: Why were The Repopulation and Embers of Caerus not also listed? One was for an investment prototype (same as pafthfinder) and the other was to add features and start alpha back in june. I think they would have added more discussion and visuals to what kickstarter IS helping with: Sandbox and more specifically targetting people who want these sorts of mmos to happen more. Great article otherwise! Kickstarter also raises visibility and possibility I think is one of the good things with it's contribution. For mmorpgs, there's more rounds of investment likely necessary. But there are already some successful ks coming out with goods and goodies eg soundtracks, artwork, design stuff and betas and so on. Eg FTL and in Nov Stoic release their multiplayer component to Banner Saga eg. :) And Pathfinder demo out mid-Oct to ks backers. As already said, choose projects you really dig and don't dig too deep in your pockets! |
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9/28/12 3:05:53 PM#25
Originally posted by Loktofeit Don't forget SWG prior to NGE. Asherons Call was semi sandbox too. |
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9/28/12 3:17:58 PM#26
Don't bother it just the usual money scam about the " the so awesome new game we doing but we need your support first ".You can compare that to the african scam mail .
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9/28/12 4:07:36 PM#27
Originally posted by Ozmodan Right, none of the mentioned we really mainstream. However, most were good games. I just sold my prime roadside land in secondlife after having it for more than 6 years :(
No doubt theres a niche market for sandbox MMOs. Unfortunately, these games do not appeal to the masses.
The next big MMO will probably be a hybrid themepark sandbox MMO. If that happens, maybe a true sandbox game will have a chance to be mainstream. |
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9/28/12 4:53:26 PM#28
The success of Pathfinder saved D&D imo. It let WotC know that they completely alienated the core D&D fanbase with their horrible attempt at making the game a table top strategy/portable mmo ruleset game with the 4th edition.
Pathfinder along with player outrage forced them to make a 5th edition that is more based on D&D rpg roots. No idea where an mmo adaptation will head but if they are trying to preserve the core D&D elements, not like WotC's attempt at stearing the rpg game toward one, it may be an interesting game. I fully expect little d20 rules to be implimented anyway and more geared toward preserving the gaming experience (adventure over rules ... which is what mmo's have forgotten to do along with the horrible 4th edition). |
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Loktofeit
 Elite Member
Joined: 1/13/10
EVE in 2013 - DUST 514, CSM8, Fanfest, 10th Anniversary, Uprising, Odyssey. Gonna be a good year :) |
9/28/12 4:58:23 PM#29
Originally posted by Suntastic Can you tell me what WAS mainstream for MMOs in 2003? filmoret: One thing I have never figured out is why the game devs hardly ever fix simple problems that arise. It is like they don't care about the pvp community. Nitth: What makes you so sure its a simple fix? filmoret: Because most of them are. Sometimes its just changing a number in a code string other times its creating a few variables. However none of them should take over a few hours of coding. |
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9/28/12 5:56:56 PM#30
Originally posted by Loktofeit Easy EverQuest. Released in 1999 and for 5 years was the most commercially successful MMORPG in the U.S. |
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9/28/12 10:10:57 PM#31
You forgot "THE REPOPULATION" !
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9/28/12 11:10:58 PM#32
Originally posted by Suntastic Gonna have to disagree with leaving out UO and SWG, those had numbers that were plenty "mainsteam" for the time. Just consider that WoW expanded the pool of MMO players by 5X to 10X. And the numbers line up fine.
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9/29/12 4:50:21 AM#33
Originally posted by Suntastic EQ had ~400-450k subs for severeal years.. UO had ~230-250k for several years. SWG had 250-300k for over 2 years. IF EQ1 was mainstream then those games were easily mainstream as well. ---------- Nowadays - if games like Lotro, Rift, STO, Aion, AoC and so on are called mainstream then EvE Online with it's 450k subs is easily mainsteam as well. |
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Loktofeit
Elite Member
Joined: 1/13/10
EVE in 2013 - DUST 514, CSM8, Fanfest, 10th Anniversary, Uprising, Odyssey. Gonna be a good year :) |
9/29/12 6:17:41 AM#34
Originally posted by Burntvet He didn't forget them. UO and SWG disprove his argument, so they can't be counted. filmoret: One thing I have never figured out is why the game devs hardly ever fix simple problems that arise. It is like they don't care about the pvp community. Nitth: What makes you so sure its a simple fix? filmoret: Because most of them are. Sometimes its just changing a number in a code string other times its creating a few variables. However none of them should take over a few hours of coding. |
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9/29/12 9:45:31 AM#35
Originally posted by fenistil First things first. Lineage was actually the most mainstream game in 2003 with 3 million subs worldwide.
Nowadays if you can't beat 4 million subs you are not considered mainstream.
Mainstreaming is having crossover appeal. Which no true sandbox game ever had. Not one sandbox game has ever had over 1 million subs. Secondlife came close with 800+k (yay). But that doesn't stop sandboxers from crying that themepark games fail with barely over 1 million subs (see swotor).
This is all prior to WoW because no one really knew what true mainstreaming was until 2006 when WoW exploded with over 6+ million subs
Just so everyone knows that I and even the others in this thread are not just throwing out random numbers.
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1183234-Some-info-on-sub-numbers-Not-just-for-SWTOR |
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9/29/12 9:48:10 AM#36
Originally posted by Loktofeit I didn't forget. Neither one of those games could crack 350k subs. I didn't want to break anyone's heart... |
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9/29/12 11:08:05 AM#37
Why no love for shadowrun online? I don't know if the 3 mentioned are going to be true mmo's, and neither will Shadowrun, but surely it was more prominently funded than them and has a bigger IP.
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9/29/12 11:13:22 AM#38
Originally posted by Suntastic Ignorance is bliss. I take it you have exactly no clue what the market was like back when SWG was around, or the main keys to WoW's success, the largest of which was probably their simple graphics engine that would run on anything. SWG had a very active community back then, and it was running for what, seven years? We'll see how many of these current themeparks pull that off.
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9/29/12 3:05:34 PM#39
I have been watching this Kickstarter phenomenon with great interest (and plenty o' skepticism), and a few of these games are definitely on my radar, including Wasteland and Project: Eternity. Not these three games, though.
What I might actually contribute money to would be the development of a game along the lines of a GW1/WoW hybrid: a persistent-world MMO with instanced group content that was playable using EITHER players, heroes, or various combinations of both, i.e., 1 player + 4 heroes, 2 players + 3 heroes, 3 players + 2 heroes, or 4 players + 1 hero.
My biggest peeve with traditional/standard MMOs is that they pick an arbitrary number -- usually 5 -- and then insist that your player group MUST be this size to complete any and all dungeons in the game.
GW1 said "No, you can have player groups composed of however many players you want and without any class restrictions and then bring whatever NPCs you want to round out your group".
No more spamming LFG, no more begging for/bribing a healer or tank to join your party. You just play. Man, did I love that system. GW2, while a great game, took a big step BACKWARDS in this regard, unfortunately, in the way it opted for traditional LFG-only dungeons. :(
DDO offers something like this, but that game's NPC AI is TERRIBAD and the game itself is mediocre, imo. Whether Neverwinter can pull off this feature as successfully as GW1 did remains to be seen, but I do wish more MMOs would offer options like this for solo players and all player groups smaller than the sacrosanct FIVE. As I said, that would be an MMO Kickstarter I would be interested in investing in. |
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9/30/12 9:15:54 AM#40
1st 2 games are for the LOLs
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