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284 posts found
  jacklo

Novice Member

Joined: 7/29/09
Posts: 582

9/27/12 9:07:22 PM#81
Originally posted by 3-4thElf
Originally posted by stringboi

I'm trying really hard to be okay with whitelisting you guys, but the flashing and what not of the ads are really annoying.  Especially when you spend a decent amount of time reading page after page, several times a day.....your going to run into MANY flashing/blinking ads just based on the amount of times the pages are refreshed and another random ad pops up.   I dont tolerate it anywhere else....I dont think we should have to here. 

Static ads would be a different story...but allowing other companies to whore themselves out with annoyance is not okay in my book.   Thats why people came up with these blockers....they are annoying, and I dont see why we should have to deal with them if we are not the kind that click on ads to begin with.  No ad shown, especially obnoxiously shown is going to change my mind. 

I hate to be one of the people that dislike this and I dont mean any disrespect, but I dont feel its okay for people to shove their products "down my throat".....and I use that term to describe the annoyance (flashing/blinking etc.) of most of them.  Do what you must...as will I, I'll be keeping my blocker on until something can be worked out to moderate all ads before being posted. 

Just so you know there are browser extensions for Chrome and Opera that I know of that can limit animations used on all types of web standards. (it messes up youtube and other video watching sites so you got to white list them) So you might want ot check in to them.

They're easy enough to search for. 

You're missing the point :)

  3-4thElf

Novice Member

Joined: 6/03/12
Posts: 496

9/27/12 9:12:55 PM#82
Originally posted by jacklo
Originally posted by 3-4thElf
Originally posted by stringboi

I'm trying really hard to be okay with whitelisting you guys, but the flashing and what not of the ads are really annoying.  Especially when you spend a decent amount of time reading page after page, several times a day.....your going to run into MANY flashing/blinking ads just based on the amount of times the pages are refreshed and another random ad pops up.   I dont tolerate it anywhere else....I dont think we should have to here. 

Static ads would be a different story...but allowing other companies to whore themselves out with annoyance is not okay in my book.   Thats why people came up with these blockers....they are annoying, and I dont see why we should have to deal with them if we are not the kind that click on ads to begin with.  No ad shown, especially obnoxiously shown is going to change my mind. 

I hate to be one of the people that dislike this and I dont mean any disrespect, but I dont feel its okay for people to shove their products "down my throat".....and I use that term to describe the annoyance (flashing/blinking etc.) of most of them.  Do what you must...as will I, I'll be keeping my blocker on until something can be worked out to moderate all ads before being posted. 

Just so you know there are browser extensions for Chrome and Opera that I know of that can limit animations used on all types of web standards. (it messes up youtube and other video watching sites so you got to white list them) So you might want ot check in to them.

They're easy enough to search for. 

You're missing the point :)

"flashing" "blinking" ads seemed to be the major critique here. 

There's a way to fix that if that user would like to fix that. 

I don't think ABP is as big a problem as the admin here seems to think considering there are other ways to make cash. For example the admins have already talked down to "advertorials". I'd find it hard to believe MMORPG.com hasn't recieved some type of kick back for their reviews and editorials already. FF14's review being an example I'd cite.

There's plenty of revenue models out there, and still room to innovate.

I think I'm being helpful to the MMORPG.com staff by politely declining to stop ABP, an app I consider a protective service rather than a revenue stealing bad guy.

a yo ho ho

  Frek

Novice Member

Joined: 9/18/04
Posts: 49

9/27/12 9:17:44 PM#83

I whitelisted mmorpg. It's a site I enjoy visiting to keep up to date on the mmo scene.

This of course is provided free of charge and I don't think it's an unreasonable request of the people who put their lives into this site to nicely ask people to whitelist them. Once again the sense of entitlement and being offended at the simplist of requests rears it's ugly head.

  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 13578

9/27/12 9:18:23 PM#84

I didn't see any mention on the ad policy of the text underline ads like Kontera or IntelliTXT.  I block those because they make a site basically unusable, but if you're not using them anyway, it would be good to say so on the ad policy page.

I don't run any ad-blocking program beyond a few things built into Opera (pop-up blocking, Kontera and IntelliTXT type ads, and the occasional particular ad that manages to be especially obnoxious), so I do see most ads on most sites.  I understand that a lot of web sites need revenue to survive.  If ads really get out of hand, then it's likely that I just stop frequenting the site.

I've long wondered what sites would do about people blocking ads.  I wonder if a lot more sites will start adopting your red bar solution.  And if ad-blocking programs will then try to block your red bar.

  VirusDancer

Novice Member

Joined: 11/18/04
Posts: 3684

Heroes are about character - not gear.

9/27/12 9:18:51 PM#85

An interesting poll might be to see whether folks come here for site content or user content.  Do they come here to see what any of the "official" blogs or columns say... or is it for reading posts from users.  Often things are reported by users in advance of any "official" blog or column appearing.

Personally, when I come to the site - I click the more posts link:  http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/realtime/

I can't remember the last time I was on the front page longer than it takes to click that link.  I had almost forgotten everything that is there on the front page.  If any of them show interest from the community, then I will see them in realtime thread list.  If not, well - then I do not see them.

As I said, there will usually be a user post about some news (usually with links to another site) before there is the article with the news here.  In a sense, the userbase here provides a pretty decent aggregator for content and news that's taking place in the MMORPG world.  It's almost as if the users have taken it upon themselves to create a pseudo Digg/Reddit - as far as being able to see what's going on...what's being talked about, etc, etc, etc.

Still, even looking at it from that angle - without the site being here - they would not be able to do that.  So even if it's a case of not being all that interested in any site content, but rather enjoying the site because of the user content (both their thoughts, links they share, etc)... the site would still need to be here for them to do that or there would have to be a similar site.  Maybe it's out there; but I've been here a wee while (still wondering three years later where almost five years of my posts disappeared to - but still here)... and perhaps I'm just kind of used to some of the folks out there.

Lol, it's the WoW of forums, eh?  You're just so used to it so you keep coming here?

The red banner at the top is far less annoying than the flashing ads - by a longshot.  But without those ads, well...I wouldn't have my ol' familiar forums, eh?  So it's a case of not whitelisting the site for the site content, but a case of doing so in the hopes that the users will have a place to continue to post their thoughts, news, and all the rest - even some of the trolls that you're still chuckling at what they said as you report them.

I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?

Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%

  3-4thElf

Novice Member

Joined: 6/03/12
Posts: 496

9/27/12 9:22:04 PM#86
Originally posted by Quizzical

 

I've long wondered what sites would do about people blocking ads.  I wonder if a lot more sites will start adopting your red bar solution.  And if ad-blocking programs will then try to block your red bar.

Wasn't hard anyway. ;)

But it did start a good conversation. As a web designer and SEO monkey I'm interested in seeing how sites stay relevant. I mostly work though with companies trying to promote a product (their main revenue source) so this is all quite different for me.

a yo ho ho

  VirusDancer

Novice Member

Joined: 11/18/04
Posts: 3684

Heroes are about character - not gear.

9/27/12 9:25:03 PM#87
Originally posted by Quizzical

I didn't see any mention on the ad policy of the text underline ads like Kontera or IntelliTXT.  I block those because they make a site basically unusable, but if you're not using them anyway, it would be good to say so on the ad policy page.

I don't run any ad-blocking program beyond a few things built into Opera (pop-up blocking, Kontera and IntelliTXT type ads, and the occasional particular ad that manages to be especially obnoxious), so I do see most ads on most sites.  I understand that a lot of web sites need revenue to survive.  If ads really get out of hand, then it's likely that I just stop frequenting the site.

I've long wondered what sites would do about people blocking ads.  I wonder if a lot more sites will start adopting your red bar solution.  And if ad-blocking programs will then try to block your red bar.

Some sites have actually taken to putting part of the content or even the discussions themselves inside ad containers.  So if you're running an adblock app - you're missing part of the content or unable to view or participate in the discussions.  I've stopped frequenting those sites...

I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?

Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%

  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 13578

9/27/12 9:25:21 PM#88
Originally posted by Admin

start doing really unethical tihngs like Advertorial content

I'd expect to see some movement toward something kind of like this that a number of other sites have been doing:  have a link to an advertising "story" mixed in with the other stories, but label it an advertisement.  That gets people to look at it, and maybe even occasionally click if they think it's interesting.  It is labeled as an advertisement, but until you read that it says "advertisement" in the title, it doesn't scream "this is an advertisement that you should ignore" the way banner ads do.

Of course, web sites are always at the mercy of what advertisers will pay for.

  Admin

Administrator

Joined: 1/29/02
Posts: 4984

Gaming is life...

9/27/12 9:28:18 PM#89
Originally posted by 3-4thElf
Originally posted by jacklo
Originally posted by 3-4thElf
Originally posted by stringboi

I'm trying really hard to be okay with whitelisting you guys, but the flashing and what not of the ads are really annoying.  Especially when you spend a decent amount of time reading page after page, several times a day.....your going to run into MANY flashing/blinking ads just based on the amount of times the pages are refreshed and another random ad pops up.   I dont tolerate it anywhere else....I dont think we should have to here. 

Static ads would be a different story...but allowing other companies to whore themselves out with annoyance is not okay in my book.   Thats why people came up with these blockers....they are annoying, and I dont see why we should have to deal with them if we are not the kind that click on ads to begin with.  No ad shown, especially obnoxiously shown is going to change my mind. 

I hate to be one of the people that dislike this and I dont mean any disrespect, but I dont feel its okay for people to shove their products "down my throat".....and I use that term to describe the annoyance (flashing/blinking etc.) of most of them.  Do what you must...as will I, I'll be keeping my blocker on until something can be worked out to moderate all ads before being posted. 

Just so you know there are browser extensions for Chrome and Opera that I know of that can limit animations used on all types of web standards. (it messes up youtube and other video watching sites so you got to white list them) So you might want ot check in to them.

They're easy enough to search for. 

You're missing the point :)

"flashing" "blinking" ads seemed to be the major critique here. 

There's a way to fix that if that user would like to fix that. 

I don't think ABP is as big a problem as the admin here seems to think considering there are other ways to make cash. For example the admins have already talked down to "advertorials". I'd find it hard to believe MMORPG.com hasn't recieved some type of kick back for their reviews and editorials already. FF14's review being an example I'd cite.

There's plenty of revenue models out there, and still room to innovate.

I think I'm being helpful to the MMORPG.com staff by politely declining to stop ABP, an app I consider a protective service rather than a revenue stealing bad guy.

You are 100% wrong.  This website has NEVER taken any compensation for any content - ever.  We use a large pool of freelance and staff writers for our reviews.  It is to be expected that some reviews get really high or low scores outside of what the general public might think of a game.  We have gotten better to try and make sure our writers don't have bias, but nothing is perfect.  

We isolate our advertising and content with an iron wall.  My Editor has no idea what I am doing on the ad sales side of things and he has no idea who I am selling advertising to until he sees it appear on the site like the rest of you.  Likewise I do not know his content schedule and have no influence on what he and his team choose to write about or how they write/score it.

I have written hundreds of emails to game companies explaining our policy to them as we get approached with some "wink wink" kind of offers and I tell them to try our competitors out - we don't play that way.

- MMORPG.COM Staff -

  3-4thElf

Novice Member

Joined: 6/03/12
Posts: 496

9/27/12 9:30:59 PM#90
Originally posted by Quizzical
Originally posted by Admin

start doing really unethical tihngs like Advertorial content

I'd expect to see some movement toward something kind of like this that a number of other sites have been doing:  have a link to an advertising "story" mixed in with the other stories, but label it an advertisement.  That gets people to look at it, and maybe even occasionally click if they think it's interesting.  It is labeled as an advertisement, but until you read that it says "advertisement" in the title, it doesn't scream "this is an advertisement that you should ignore" the way banner ads do.

Of course, web sites are always at the mercy of what advertisers will pay for.

I actually prefer that type of advertising when it's clearly marked.

It kind of reminds me of the old TV days when the stars of the variety shows would stop and advertise a product. A lot of pod casts do it; and the presenters get to stay in character or offer testimonials. 

I think it's as ethical as trying to persuade consumers any other way.

a yo ho ho

  jacklo

Novice Member

Joined: 7/29/09
Posts: 582

9/27/12 9:31:10 PM#91
Originally posted by 3-4thElf
Originally posted by Quizzical

 

I've long wondered what sites would do about people blocking ads.  I wonder if a lot more sites will start adopting your red bar solution.  And if ad-blocking programs will then try to block your red bar.

Wasn't hard anyway. ;)

But it did start a good conversation. As a web designer and SEO monkey I'm interested in seeing how sites stay relevant. I mostly work though with companies trying to promote a product (their main revenue source) so this is all quite different for me.

If you know anything of SEO, you will know "content is king", especially with the progressively more aggressive tactics of Google in  recent updates.

You can't ever hope to compete with user driven content for obvious financial reasons.

The result of "alienating" your users is something that is only too familiar in the MMORPG industry.

Somebody mentioned there's no problem with being "politely" asked to display the ads. My problem is there was no "politley" about it.

  Admin

Administrator

Joined: 1/29/02
Posts: 4984

Gaming is life...

9/27/12 9:32:03 PM#92
Originally posted by Quizzical

I didn't see any mention on the ad policy of the text underline ads like Kontera or IntelliTXT.  I block those because they make a site basically unusable, but if you're not using them anyway, it would be good to say so on the ad policy page.

 

We currently don't do these kinds of ads but are looking at doing it for users that are not logged in the forums as a way to try and compensate for what we are losing with ad blocking.  It is not solid yet but I did not want us to say we did not do this then turn around and do it next month.

- MMORPG.COM Staff -

  3-4thElf

Novice Member

Joined: 6/03/12
Posts: 496

9/27/12 9:33:36 PM#93
Originally posted by Admin
Originally posted by 3-4thElf
Originally posted by jacklo
Originally posted by 3-4thElf
Originally posted by stringboi

I'm trying really hard to be okay with whitelisting you guys, but the flashing and what not of the ads are really annoying. ...

...

You're missing the point :)

...

I think I'm being helpful to the MMORPG.com staff by politely declining to stop ABP, an app I consider a protective service rather than a revenue stealing bad guy.

You are 100% wrong.  ....

I have written hundreds of emails to game companies explaining our policy to them as we get approached with some "wink wink" kind of offers and I tell them to try our competitors out - we don't play that way.

I'll take you at your word for it. But this seems overly defensive now and makes me a tad more suspicious. 

I'm serious about making all of this feedback about "trust" from other users and I and making something educational out of it. 

"Trust us." Is the least trustworthy statement anyone can say.

a yo ho ho

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17372

9/27/12 9:33:38 PM#94
Originally posted by MikeB
Originally posted by gigat

I don't even pay attention to the ads.  I was using an ad blocker recently because the ads themselves weren't displaying correctly.  Other than that, the ads have never bothered me to the point where it made me want to rage quit the website.

 

In a systems analysis class I took several years ago, MMORPG.com was used as an example of how to design a good interface (I showed MMORPG.com to my instructor because I was curious what he thought of it, and he later showed it to the class).  Regardless of the ads, it's a very well-built website.  It's attractive, good colors, easy to use, great content.  I approve of MMORPG.com, and the crazy amount of mostly-relevant ads :)

Wow! That's really awesome. Thanks for the kind words!

I would agree. One of the things I love about this site (other than the search function that never works for me) is that all the info I want is right in the center, everything is readable.

Though I usually despise advertisments in movie theaters I completely understand that websites need reveneu. As long as their advertisments are about games then "I'm good".

  3-4thElf

Novice Member

Joined: 6/03/12
Posts: 496

9/27/12 9:35:32 PM#95
Originally posted by jacklo
Originally posted by 3-4thElf
Originally posted by Quizzical

 

I've long wondered what sites would do about people blocking ads.  I wonder if a lot more sites will start adopting your red bar solution.  And if ad-blocking programs will then try to block your red bar.

Wasn't hard anyway. ;)

But it did start a good conversation. As a web designer and SEO monkey I'm interested in seeing how sites stay relevant. I mostly work though with companies trying to promote a product (their main revenue source) so this is all quite different for me.

If you know anything of SEO, you will know "content is king", especially with the progressively more aggressive tactics of Google in  recent updates.

You can't ever hope to compete with user driven content for obvious financial reasons.

The result of "alienating" your users is something that is only too familiar in the MMORPG industry.

Somebody mentioned there's no problem with being "politely" asked to display the ads. My problem is there was no "politley" about it.

Content is King, and I think MMORPG.com is in a great position to make revenue in a manner that's less annoying than the types of ads ABP actually blocks.

I mean they update enough and their link crawl is probably epic. lol WIsh I could talk more of my clients into being as open as MMORPG.com is.

a yo ho ho

  Yalexy

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 1039

9/27/12 9:35:53 PM#96

Seriously, can you please give me an answer for who can be held responsible if the currently blocked ads and javascripts cause any damage to my system?

That's the third time I'm asking in this thread.

  3-4thElf

Novice Member

Joined: 6/03/12
Posts: 496

9/27/12 9:38:07 PM#97
Originally posted by Yalexy

Seriously, can you please give me an answer for who can be held responsible if the currently blocked ads and javascripts cause any damage to my system?

That's the third time I'm asking in this thread.

You're responsible.

It's your decision to make yourself as availiable as you want. If you want the site to say they'll pay for your hardware for a decision that ultimately is yours to make; I'd recommend holding your breath first.

It's not like a line was drawn in the sand here.

a yo ho ho

  Admin

Administrator

Joined: 1/29/02
Posts: 4984

Gaming is life...

9/27/12 9:39:28 PM#98
Originally posted by 3-4thElf
Originally posted by Admin
Originally posted by 3-4thElf
Originally posted by jacklo
Originally posted by 3-4thElf
Originally posted by stringboi

I'm trying really hard to be okay with whitelisting you guys, but the flashing and what not of the ads are really annoying. ...

...

You're missing the point :)

...

I think I'm being helpful to the MMORPG.com staff by politely declining to stop ABP, an app I consider a protective service rather than a revenue stealing bad guy.

You are 100% wrong.  ....

I have written hundreds of emails to game companies explaining our policy to them as we get approached with some "wink wink" kind of offers and I tell them to try our competitors out - we don't play that way.

I'll take you at your word for it. But this seems overly defensive now and makes me a tad more suspicious. 

I'm serious about making all of this feedback about "trust" from other users and I and making something educational out of it. 

"Trust us." Is the least trustworthy statement anyone can say.

The best thing I could give you to trust us is that in the 10 years this site has been operating we have used hundreds of writers.  Most are just freelancers making $50-$100 for an article.  They come and go like the wind for the most part.  Never has any of these people come forward with a story of the MMORPG staff telling them to score a game a certain way - their score stays as long as it follows our scoring policies (ie backing up your score in your writing).

Remember that there is no evidence for something that did not happen.  I cannot prove that we don't take bribes for content - there is no proof for something that does not exist.  There is only proof for things that happen - and never has anyone ever manifested such proof.  That is the best I can give you I am afraid.

I am defensive on this because a) we get accused of this all the time and b) I take a LOT of pride in the fact that we are an honest and ethical site - in a world where this is getting very rare.  I have had companies tell me that some other MMO (and non-MMO) sites sell nearly everything on their sites (as this is why they think we should) and it is sickening.

- MMORPG.COM Staff -

  Torluk

Novice Member

Joined: 10/15/09
Posts: 166

9/27/12 9:41:58 PM#99
Originally posted by 3-4thElf
Originally posted by Admin
Originally posted by 3-4thElf
Originally posted by jacklo
Originally posted by 3-4thElf
Originally posted by stringboi

I'm trying really hard to be okay with whitelisting you guys, but the flashing and what not of the ads are really annoying. ...

...

You're missing the point :)

...

I think I'm being helpful to the MMORPG.com staff by politely declining to stop ABP, an app I consider a protective service rather than a revenue stealing bad guy.

You are 100% wrong.  ....

I have written hundreds of emails to game companies explaining our policy to them as we get approached with some "wink wink" kind of offers and I tell them to try our competitors out - we don't play that way.

I'll take you at your word for it. But this seems overly defensive now and makes me a tad more suspicious. 

I'm serious about making all of this feedback about "trust" from other users and I and making something educational out of it. 

"Trust us." Is the least trustworthy statement anyone can say.

If these guys were really in it for the money I think there are better ways they could do it.  Seems to me like they are gamers that love working in a game related field.  If I was genuinely worried about declining revenue in my business, I hope I'd be forgiven for being a bit defensive too.

  3-4thElf

Novice Member

Joined: 6/03/12
Posts: 496

9/27/12 9:43:19 PM#100
Originally posted by Torluk
Originally posted by 3-4thElf
Originally posted by Admin
Originally posted by 3-4thElf
Originally posted by jacklo
Originally posted by 3-4thElf
Originally posted by stringboi

I'm trying really hard to be okay with whitelisting you guys, but the flashing and what not of the ads are really annoying. ...

...

You're missing the point :)

...

I think I'm being helpful to the MMORPG.com staff by politely declining to stop ABP, an app I consider a protective service rather than a revenue stealing bad guy.

You are 100% wrong.  ....

I have written hundreds of emails to game companies explaining our policy to them as we get approached with some "wink wink" kind of offers and I tell them to try our competitors out - we don't play that way.

I'll take you at your word for it. But this seems overly defensive now and makes me a tad more suspicious. 

I'm serious about making all of this feedback about "trust" from other users and I and making something educational out of it. 

"Trust us." Is the least trustworthy statement anyone can say.

If these guys were really in it for the money I think there are better ways they could do it.  Seems to me like they are gamers that love working in a game related field.  If I was genuinely worried about declining revenue in my business, I hope I'd be forgiven for being a bit defensive too.

Did you see the red bar at the top of the site?

The money is important.

I'm not accusing them of being greedy. 

I am saying that it's not a great tactic, and in this industry it's better to innovate than to beg.

a yo ho ho

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