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General Discussion 

The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » The time to bring back Sandboxes IS NOW!

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123 posts found
  Mors.Magne

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/02/07
Posts: 1417

9/27/12 9:31:36 AM#101
Originally posted by dinams

Good intention, bad execution

All I see in the OP is yelling and propheticizing to the masses while manifesting the OP hatred for themeparks

 

Nobody hates themeparks but many hate the endgame once all the rides are done.

A lot of people would like to see a mixture of both themepark and sandbox with a bias towards sandbox.

This should make things less predictable and assist longevity.

  Quirhid

Novice Member

Joined: 1/28/05
Posts: 5492

I dare you to pin a label on me.

9/27/12 9:33:54 AM#102
Originally posted by dinams

All I see in the OP is yelling and propheticizing to the masses while manifesting the OP hatred for themeparks

 

That has been a popular behavior on MMORPG.com's forums for the past weeks. Everyone seems to know something nobody else does...

I wonder if its the same guy with different accounts? -Or maybe they just don't bother reading each others threads.

I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  winter

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/08/03
Posts: 2224

9/27/12 9:36:48 AM#103

 Op as you pointed out Darkfall Unholy Wars is a sandbox coming out soon (?)

 DArkfall 1.0 was a shining example of all that good in sandboxes no strict lass yadda yadda yadda.

Its been no where near 8 years since it was releaased so your misinformed post does you no credit.

 So you have Archage, DFUW and a few other sandbox games coming out soon what are you yammering about?

  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 18791

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

9/27/12 9:38:14 AM#104
Originally posted by Fadedbomb
Originally posted by Ghost12
Originally posted by ShakyMo
What I meant with the hybrid thing and the mention of a more sandboxy gw2 was. One of the big things that put people of sandboxes is ffa full loot pvp, but on the other had no pvp gets boring fast.

If you had some sort of sandbox themepark hybrid, where you play on your own server in a fully pve environment, but travel to a battle server which is pvp flagged, that might work. You could even have 2 places to travel too, one with faction based warfare against other servers, the other bring ffa and guild based.

 

Hybrid idea sounds wonderful.

 

But why does it have to be ffa full loot? Why not partial loot?

DAOC was a hybrid (aka: Sandpark).

 

 

Just saynig....

At first I was going to disagree with you, but then looking at this list of features posted earlier it seems it had many of them, so perhaps you're right.

+ Classless system/Skill based (think TES Skyrim and Oblivion)

+ Open world

+ Player creation of items (crafting)

+ Player Housing and furnishing

+ Focus on big, epic quests rather than smaller ones

+ Player cities

+ Harsher death penalty

+ Guild political control > conquering other cities

+ Open economy

+ Meaningful PvP

+ Strong Roleplaying foundation

+ Generally more deeper gameplay, with the theme of being what you want to be, then being in a pre-defined role.

+ A focus on player freedom

"In these forums 'honest' seems to be a symonym for 'hates the game just like I do'" - ohioastro
Kyleran - Bitter Vet ™ since 2006
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  User Deleted
9/27/12 9:39:07 AM#105
Originally posted by Ghost12
Originally posted by Gdemami

 


Originally posted by Ghost12
There is a saying; Only a fool does the same thing over and over again and expects different results.

 

 


 

How many sandbox titles did we have after EVE that fell flat on their faces?

 

Not many? Compared to the amont of themeparks that came out, that amount is miniscule.

Compared to the amount of themepark players, the sandbox market is miniscule.

Sandbox players cant even agree on what they want in a game, making a sandbox game is extremely high risk and very low potential reward for developers, which is why you will only continue to see indie developers making sandbox games for the love of it. But don't expect anything big budget in the near future until a sandbox game proves to be a success (other than EVE, which is in its own odd little niche).

  TalulaRose

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/27/12
Posts: 407

9/27/12 9:40:53 AM#106
Originally posted by ShakyMo
Talula:
Aion failed harder in Europe. Not because don't like pvp games, but because we are less used to Asian styling than north Americans.

I include the EU with NA as both seem to gravitate to similiar MMOs. I should start using EU/NA.

  apocoluster

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/15/07
Posts: 1292

\m/,

9/27/12 9:41:57 AM#107
Originally posted by Fadedbomb

Look @ this thread TESO, Warhammer 40k Onlime, and NeverWinter Online devs.

We haven't wanted Themeparks for the past 5+years! That's what you're creating, a soon-to-be-failure if you continue on your current route.

I still want themeparks  *shrugs*

No matter how cynical you become, its never enough to keep up - Lily Tomlin

  Yamota

Elite Member

Joined: 10/05/03
Posts: 6500

"I fight so you don't have to."

9/27/12 9:43:48 AM#108
Originally posted by Gdemami

 


Originally posted by Ghost12
There is a saying; Only a fool does the same thing over and over again and expects different results.

 

 


 

How many sandbox titles did we have after EVE that fell flat on their faces?

How many properly funded, big budget sandbox titles have fell flat on their faces? ZERO. Because none has been made as publishers refuse to fund sandbox titles as they are too different from WoW.

And I 100% agree with OP. The notion that sandbox titles dont work is a myth. None has worked because non has been properly funded and, believe it or not, a commercial MMORPG requires a massive amounts of cash to develop, in the millions, tens of millions. And that is the only reason why there are no commercial sandbox games. Because they are not being funded. 

  Fadedbomb

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 5/19/06
Posts: 2149

9/27/12 9:44:30 AM#109
Originally posted by Kyleran
Originally posted by Fadedbomb
Originally posted by Ghost12
Originally posted by ShakyMo
What I meant with the hybrid thing and the mention of a more sandboxy gw2 was. One of the big things that put people of sandboxes is ffa full loot pvp, but on the other had no pvp gets boring fast.

If you had some sort of sandbox themepark hybrid, where you play on your own server in a fully pve environment, but travel to a battle server which is pvp flagged, that might work. You could even have 2 places to travel too, one with faction based warfare against other servers, the other bring ffa and guild based.

 

Hybrid idea sounds wonderful.

 

But why does it have to be ffa full loot? Why not partial loot?

DAOC was a hybrid (aka: Sandpark).

 

 

Just saynig....

At first I was going to disagree with you, but then looking at this list of features posted earlier it seems it had many of them, so perhaps you're right.

+ Classless system/Skill based (think TES Skyrim and Oblivion)

+ Open world

+ Player creation of items (crafting)

+ Player Housing and furnishing

+ Focus on big, epic quests rather than smaller ones

+ Player cities

+ Harsher death penalty

+ Guild political control > conquering other cities

+ Open economy

+ Meaningful PvP

+ Strong Roleplaying foundation

+ Generally more deeper gameplay, with the theme of being what you want to be, then being in a pre-defined role.

+ A focus on player freedom

Where did you get this list? The items in red were NOT in DAOC.

The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.

  Yalexy

Novice Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 1020

9/27/12 9:46:08 AM#110


Originally posted by Mors.Magne

Originally posted by dinams Good intention, bad execution All I see in the OP is yelling and propheticizing to the masses while manifesting the OP hatred for themeparks  
Nobody hates themeparks but many hate the endgame once all the rides are done.

A lot of people would like to see a mixture of both themepark and sandbox with a bias towards sandbox.

This should make things less predictable and assist longevity.


This.

We need a good hybrid, where there's enjoable PvE on the one, and meaningful PvP on the other side not divided by servers.

EvE Online shows that it can be done, allthough as was stated before, the PvE-missions and complex are not that good.

ArcheAge seems to be the first MMO that tries to be that kind of hybrid, and they take the right approach by dividing the world into three islands, where two of them are PvE-centered and the third is 100% PvP-centered. A good crafting-system and good economy ontop, but we'll have to wait and see as it's not released in EU/NA for atleast another 12 month.

SWG had alot of this allready, but it killed itself with the NGE-patch alienating it's initial playerbase.

The so called sandboxes that failed in the last few years were no sandboxes actually. They were nothing else then "shooters" with some character-progression and a core crafting-system tacked on... yes I'm speaking of Darkfail, Mortal Online and Earthrise here.
They lacked what EvE managed to get right: safer areas for the "carebears" and a living economy. Also PvP in EvE, especially in 0.0 was never that meaningless, but a fight for ressources primarily to gain economical power.

So, here's waiting for ArcheAge during the next year to come, while playing things like Borderlands 2, WarZ or Tetris.

  winter

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/08/03
Posts: 2224

9/27/12 9:46:18 AM#111
Originally posted by Fadedbomb

Look @ this thread TESO, Warhammer 40k Onlime, and NeverWinter Online devs.

We haven't wanted Themeparks for the past 5+years! That's what you're creating, a soon-to-be-failure if you continue on your current route.

 The only thing failing is some of the soon to be released  sandboxes, yes my opinion just as you have yours. Neverwinter online will do tons better then Darkfall unholy wars (your next due to be release godsend sandbox game) Get over it and your narrow everyone wants/must play my way mind set.

   Right now Darkfall Unholy wars is much more hyped on mmorpg.com hype meter then neverwinter all the same I'd bet you good money Neverwinter will do much better. Difference between you and me being I'm not stating all upcoming sandboxes will be a fail, while you state all upcoming theme parks will.

 

  Fadedbomb

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 5/19/06
Posts: 2149

9/27/12 9:46:32 AM#112
Originally posted by evilastro
Originally posted by Ghost12
Originally posted by Gdemami

 


Originally posted by Ghost12
There is a saying; Only a fool does the same thing over and over again and expects different results.

 

 


 

How many sandbox titles did we have after EVE that fell flat on their faces?

 

Not many? Compared to the amont of themeparks that came out, that amount is miniscule.

Compared to the amount of themepark players, the sandbox market is miniscule.

Sandbox players cant even agree on what they want in a game, making a sandbox game is extremely high risk and very low potential reward for developers, which is why you will only continue to see indie developers making sandbox games for the love of it. But don't expect anything big budget in the near future until a sandbox game proves to be a success (other than EVE, which is in its own odd little niche).

You have absolutely zero evidence to prove this statement. There has not been a reliable measuring of the sandbox player population to make such a bold statement.

 

Remember, WoW (and the copies there-of) are only a small fraction of the total market (~20%).

The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.

  WhiteLantern

Novice Member

Joined: 1/27/10
Posts: 2778

9/27/12 9:48:23 AM#113
Originally posted by apocoluster
Originally posted by Fadedbomb

Look @ this thread TESO, Warhammer 40k Onlime, and NeverWinter Online devs.

We haven't wanted Themeparks for the past 5+years! That's what you're creating, a soon-to-be-failure if you continue on your current route.

I still want themeparks  *shrugs*

Same here. *shares a /shrug

 

 

I hope every Sandbox lover on this site invests money into Darkfall:(can't remember) 2.0. If you want sandboxes to succeed, someone has to support the ones out there. And don't give me that "current sandboxes suck" crap. IMO they all suck, so that doesn't move me.

Show support so the devs see you, rather than just hear your bitching.

I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil

  Fadedbomb

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 5/19/06
Posts: 2149

9/27/12 9:48:48 AM#114
Originally posted by winter
Originally posted by Fadedbomb

Look @ this thread TESO, Warhammer 40k Onlime, and NeverWinter Online devs.

We haven't wanted Themeparks for the past 5+years! That's what you're creating, a soon-to-be-failure if you continue on your current route.

 The only thing failing is some of the soon to be released  sandboxes, yes my opinion just as you have yours. Neverwinter online will do tons better then Darkfall unholy wars (your next due to be release godsend sandbox game) Get over it and your narrow everyone wants/must play my way mind set.

   Right now Darkfall Unholy wars is much more hyped on mmorpg.com hype meter then neverwinter all the same I'd bet you good money Neverwinter will do much better. Difference between you and me being I'm not stating all upcoming sandboxes will be a fail, while you state all upcoming theme parks will.

 

With the travesty that was Darkfall #1 most sandboxers i know are not touching #2. However, TESO, Warhammer 40k, and NeverWinter Online are all deemed failures to be so far by the market.

 

They're each linear themeparks, Warhammer 40k being a direct clone of WoW (lead dev admission), and TESO a SWTOR clone (again, lead dev admission). NeverWinter Online simply looks aweful, and the information they've provided coupled with the company making it having a crap track record (Cryptic) is simply fueling this argument.

The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.

  hyllstarter

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/28/05
Posts: 198

9/27/12 9:49:05 AM#115

I think if they come out with a good half themepark half sandbox. It would do great. Something like the NGE SWG. without the backlash of changing a game from a pure sandbox.

 

  Fadedbomb

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 5/19/06
Posts: 2149

9/27/12 9:50:29 AM#116
Originally posted by WhiteLantern
Originally posted by apocoluster
Originally posted by Fadedbomb

Look @ this thread TESO, Warhammer 40k Onlime, and NeverWinter Online devs.

We haven't wanted Themeparks for the past 5+years! That's what you're creating, a soon-to-be-failure if you continue on your current route.

I still want themeparks  *shrugs*

Same here. *shares a /shurg

 

 

I hope every Sandbox lover on this site invests money into Darkfall:(can't remember) 2.0. If you want sandboxes to suceed, someone has to support the ones out there. And don't give me that "current sandboxes suck" crap. IMO they all suck, so that doesn't move me.

Show support so the devs see you, rather than just hear your bitching.

The problem is WHO to support. The company doing Darkfall 2.0 is a very VERY mismanaged one, and low budget at that. I wouldn't want to invest into Darkfall 2 even if I had a couple million to throw around.

 

That's coming from an avid Sandbox fan :).

 

Also, why do you enjoy playing someone else's hand-written story (Linear Themeparks)? Is it that you're using it as an alternative form of a Book/Movie? :o

The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.

  WhiteLantern

Novice Member

Joined: 1/27/10
Posts: 2778

9/27/12 9:50:44 AM#117
Originally posted by Fadedbomb
Originally posted by winter
Originally posted by Fadedbomb

Look @ this thread TESO, Warhammer 40k Onlime, and NeverWinter Online devs.

We haven't wanted Themeparks for the past 5+years! That's what you're creating, a soon-to-be-failure if you continue on your current route.

 The only thing failing is some of the soon to be released  sandboxes, yes my opinion just as you have yours. Neverwinter online will do tons better then Darkfall unholy wars (your next due to be release godsend sandbox game) Get over it and your narrow everyone wants/must play my way mind set.

   Right now Darkfall Unholy wars is much more hyped on mmorpg.com hype meter then neverwinter all the same I'd bet you good money Neverwinter will do much better. Difference between you and me being I'm not stating all upcoming sandboxes will be a fail, while you state all upcoming theme parks will.

 

With the travesty that was Darkfall #1 most sandboxers i know are not touching #2. However, TESO, Warhammer 40k, and NeverWinter Online are all deemed failures to be so far by the market.

 

They're each linear themeparks, Warhammer 40k being a direct clone of WoW (lead dev admission), and TESO a SWTOR clone (again, lead dev admission). NeverWinter Online simply looks aweful, and the information they've provided coupled with the company making it having a crap track record (Cryptic) is simply fueling this argument.

Just going to fill in some peeps here, 40k won't be an MMO. That was scrapped with THQs financial issues.

 

Continue on...............

I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil

  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

9/27/12 9:51:08 AM#118
Originally posted by WhiteLantern

Show support so the devs see you, rather than just hear your bitching.

Bitching is free.  :shrug:  It will never cease to be popular.

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  WhiteLantern

Novice Member

Joined: 1/27/10
Posts: 2778

9/27/12 9:52:06 AM#119
Originally posted by Fadedbomb

 

Also, why do you enjoy playing someone else's hand-written story (Linear Themeparks)? Is it that you're using it as an alternative form of a Book/Movie? :o

Yes, just like every other game I play.

 

Problem?

I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil

  Panossian

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/21/06
Posts: 100

9/27/12 9:54:55 AM#120
If you're looking for a sandbox, pickup DF2 when it's released.  It will be a fresh server and as long as you get in with a solid clan it's the most fun you will have if you are into sandbox games.

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