Originally posted by Requiem1066

Originally posted by Sukiyaki

 

So much for the destinied "GW2 KILLA".

 

Well Fanbois will be fanbois and the WoW ones are no different than the GW2 ones that proclaimed it as a " WoW KILLA "

 To many Cheerleaders waving Their Pom Pom's instead of enjoying the games they play  *\o/*

Originally posted by doodphace

Originally posted by Requiem1066

Originally posted by Sukiyaki

 

So much for the destinied "GW2 KILLA".

 

Well Fanbois will be fanbois and the WoW ones are no different than the GW2 ones that proclaimed it as a " WoW KILLA "

 To many Cheerleaders waving Their Pom Pom's instead of enjoying the games they play  *\o/*

 

Gw2 killer? Last time I checked, Gw2 didn't have 9million+ players. Please stop with this nonsense....Gw2 has a healthy population...play it if u like it...wow still holds the top spot, that's the reality

Depends.  The 9 mill sub number is grossly inflated and actually untrue as they worked accounts to their advatage with how Asia does their system of game time instead of subs.  In the US it is not nearly as popular as many think it is.  A year or two ago it was only 4 mill for the US and EU which likely has considerablely gone done since then.  I'd say WoW will be more and more on equal grounds with other major MMOs or at least the disparity dramatically smaller.  WoW is on the same route as EQ regardless as time goes on more and more will leave for other games since it's a very dated game now and people eventually will grow tired of it and want something different.

Originally posted by doodphace

Originally posted by Requiem1066

Originally posted by Sukiyaki

So much for the destinied "GW2 KILLA".

Well Fanbois will be fanbois and the WoW ones are no different than the GW2 ones that proclaimed it as a " WoW KILLA "

 To many Cheerleaders waving Their Pom Pom's instead of enjoying the games they play  *\o/*

Gw2 killer? Last time I checked, Gw2 didn't have 9million+ players. Please stop with this nonsense....Gw2 has a healthy population...play it if u like it...wow still holds the top spot, that's the reality

Are you feeling a bit defensive perhaps?

You just attacked a poster making fun of Cheerleader/Fanbois for either game... kinda proving his point in the process ^.-

Originally posted by doodphace

Originally posted by Requiem1066

Originally posted by Sukiyaki

 

So much for the destinied "GW2 KILLA".

 

Well Fanbois will be fanbois and the WoW ones are no different than the GW2 ones that proclaimed it as a " WoW KILLA "

 To many Cheerleaders waving Their Pom Pom's instead of enjoying the games they play  *\o/*

 

Gw2 killer? Last time I checked, Gw2 didn't have 9million+ players. Please stop with this nonsense....Gw2 has a healthy population...play it if u like it...wow still holds the top spot, that's the reality

lol dude, learn to read, and try to keep ur fanboysm lower before posting.

Btw wow is ahead now. And guys please stupid carrying on the wow has 10 million users non sense. I'll give you a example of the bs. Apple has 10 million plus under contract users. Look at apples stock as a effect of that capital. And then look up blizzards and its past forecast and future.

Something is highly wrong with your numbers if you have that many users. And have a stock every investor won't touch. It's called (stretching the truth) and manipulating stock prices. The reality is they maybe have 10million paid for. And i bet 1-2m concurrent is a safe bet that number goes higher each expac. Hell Perfect World has a confirmed 31 Million subscribers across its many games and a better stock outlook. You don't see them making commercials lying about it.

  700k total buyers as of 15 hours ago for MOP,  is not ahead of what is obviously over 3 million GW2 sales. Maybe if  you squint looking at Xfire numbers  you can "imagine" such a thing. My server is still full and WvWVW matches are still packed meaning those servers are still full. Why would I even play WOW considering MOP tries to rip off GW2 features anyway, really the New Hunter is essentially just one of the specs you can make on GW2, a skill that lets me attack you with a flock of birds, a retreating initiative shot, I can do all of that on GW2 minus the gear progression and gear grind, not to mention the holy trinity nonsense.

Gw2 is also just a technically better, more modern game. It isnt as easy for them to rip off features without making WOW II, otherwise its just emulation.

Originally posted by Sleepyfish

  700k total buyers as of 15 hours ago for MOP,  is not ahead of what is obviously over 3 million GW2 sales. Maybe if  you squint looking at Xfire numbers  you can "imagine" such a thing. My server is still full and WvWVW matches are still packed meaning those servers are still full. Why would I even play WOW considering MOP tries to rip off GW2 features anyway, really the New Hunter is essentially just one of the specs you can make on GW2, a skill that lets me attack you with a flock of birds, a retreating initiative shot, I can do all of that on GW2 minus the gear progression and gear grind, not to mention the holy trinity nonsense.

 

Gw2 is also just a technically better, more modern game. It isnt as easy for them to rip off features without making WOW II, otherwise its just emulation.

700k is physical copies only. For a comparison GW2 has sold 1.17 million physical copies to date.

Originally posted by Sleepyfish

  700k total buyers as of 15 hours ago for MOP,  is not ahead of what is obviously over 3 million GW2 sales. Maybe if  you squint looking at Xfire numbers  you can "imagine" such a thing. My server is still full and WvWVW matches are still packed meaning those servers are still full. Why would I even play WOW considering MOP tries to rip off GW2 features anyway, really the New Hunter is essentially just one of the specs you can make on GW2, a skill that lets me attack you with a flock of birds, a retreating initiative shot, I can do all of that on GW2 minus the gear progression and gear grind, not to mention the holy trinity nonsense.

 

Gw2 is also just a technically better, more modern game. It isnt as easy for them to rip off features without making WOW II, otherwise its just emulation.

It's a shinier game with better ability effects (the best effects).

When it comes to depth of core game play and character development GW2 can't hold a candle to WoW, or any of the other mmos released in the past 3 years when it comes to character development specifically.

It's a great casual game. If that is what you want you will love it.  If you want anything more you will be sorly disappointed after 3 weeks. 

edit - 700k physical copies. D3 sold about 70% of it's copies digitally.

---

Originally posted by Sleepyfish
  700k total buyers as of 15 hours ago for MOP,  is not ahead of what is obviously over 3 million GW2 sales. Maybe if  you squint looking at Xfire numbers  you can "imagine" such a thing. My server is still full and WvWVW matches are still packed meaning those servers are still full. Why would I even play WOW considering MOP tries to rip off GW2 features anyway, really the New Hunter is essentially just one of the specs you can make on GW2, a skill that lets me attack you with a flock of birds, a retreating initiative shot, I can do all of that on GW2 minus the gear progression and gear grind, not to mention the holy trinity nonsense.

 

Gw2 is also just a technically better, more modern game. It isnt as easy for them to rip off features without making WOW II, otherwise its just emulation.

---

700k buyers is retail. Not total. Does not include digital. Nice play against Xfire too. But yeah as a reliable source of numbers, it's useless, but it's been historically accurate for predicting what the overall population will do. Which BTW, it would seem, according to Xfire, that MOP did not cause an exodus from GW2. No, GW2 is doing a fine job of that without any help from WoW. And the WvW argument is meaningless. Since ANET's own statement showed that only 30% of GW2's population queues for WvW. And for those players, they'll be the last ones to stop playing so it makes total sense that WvW queues will remain unaffected while the PVE populations drop.

And now WoW's hunter is a GW2 Ranger ripoff? Oh come on, That's just fanboying.

As far as the holy trinity nonsense.... For many, GW2's non trinity, feels like
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cFucXYlw94

Originally posted by GeezerGamer

 

---

Originally posted by Sleepyfish
  700k total buyers as of 15 hours ago for MOP,  is not ahead of what is obviously over 3 million GW2 sales. Maybe if  you squint looking at Xfire numbers  you can "imagine" such a thing. My server is still full and WvWVW matches are still packed meaning those servers are still full. Why would I even play WOW considering MOP tries to rip off GW2 features anyway, really the New Hunter is essentially just one of the specs you can make on GW2, a skill that lets me attack you with a flock of birds, a retreating initiative shot, I can do all of that on GW2 minus the gear progression and gear grind, not to mention the holy trinity nonsense.

 

 

Gw2 is also just a technically better, more modern game. It isnt as easy for them to rip off features without making WOW II, otherwise its just emulation.

---

 

700k buyers is retail. Not total. Does not include digital. Nice play against Xfire too. But yeah as a reliable source of numbers, it's useless, but it's been historically accurate for predicting what the overall population will do. Which BTW, it would seem, according to Xfire, that MOP did not cause an exodus from GW2. No, GW2 is doing a fine job of that without any help from WoW. And the WvW argument is meaningless. Since ANET's own statement showed that only 30% of GW2's population queues for WvW. And for those players, they'll be the last ones to stop playing so it makes total sense that WvW queues will remain unaffected while the PVE populations drop.

And now WoW's hunter is a GW2 Ranger ripoff? Oh come on, That's just fanboying.

As far as the holy trinity nonsense.... For many, GW2's non trinity, feels like
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cFucXYlw94

GW2's 1st month Xfire slide is steeper than swtors.

If you dont like Xfire look at the "guildwars2.com" website stats. 

http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/guildwars2.com

No help from MoP needed.

Originally posted by bcbully

When it comes to depth of core game play and character development GW2 can't hold a candle to WoW, or any of the other mmos released in the past 3 years when it comes to character development specifically.

I'm willing to tolerate and ignore most of your drivel but this is just over-the-top unmitigated BS.

For someone who thought that picking 7 Abilities that synergize from a giant list of useless crap on the wheel was "amazingly complex" maybe the problem with GW2 is Trait Selection is just too complicated for you?

WoW Talent Builds became mind-numbingly more easy with each expansion and to say that MoP's "everybody's the same except for 6 flavors of Talents" is somehow rich, superior, or deeper than the myriad of ways I can Trait out every single Profession in GW2 for a multitude of playstyles is... well asinine is the most polite term I can think of.

I know you hate GW2. I'm not completely sure why. You are certainly entitled to your opinion. But damn man, do you have to keep looking so stupid when you choose to share it? Rotations aren't deeper gameplay than actually reading and reacting and maneuvering. Choosing 6 "Flavors" of Talents isn't even close to the depth provided by Traits, Weapons, and Skills. Whether you like it or not is preference. But objectively the core game systems aren't even close.

Originally posted by Stx11

Originally posted by bcbully

When it comes to depth of core game play and character development GW2 can't hold a candle to WoW, or any of the other mmos released in the past 3 years when it comes to character development specifically.

I'm willing to tolerate and ignore most of your drivel but this is just over-the-top unmitigated BS.

For someone who thought that picking 7 Abilities that synergize from a giant list of useless crap on the wheel was "amazingly complex" maybe the problem with GW2 is Trait Selection is just too complicated for you?

WoW Talent Builds became mind-numbingly more easy with each expansion and to say that MoP's "everybody's the same except for 6 flavors of Talents" is somehow rich, superior, or deeper than the myriad of ways I can Trait out every single Profession in GW2 for a multitude of playstyles is... well asinine is the most polite term I can think of.

I know you hate GW2. I'm not completely sure why. You are certainly entitled to your opinion. But damn man, do you have to keep looking so stupid when you choose to share it? Rotations aren't deeper gameplay than actually reading and reacting and maneuvering. Choosing 6 "Flavors" of Talents isn't even close to the depth provided by Traits, Weapons, and Skills. Whether you like it or not is preference. But objectively the core game systems aren't even close.

14 (now 15) out of 525 any combination you want. I perfer that of GW2's system where your septer will do the same 3 spells forever, and your axe will do the same three spells forever, and you horn will do the same 2 spells fore ever, and your staff will do the same 5 spells FOREVER.

Cata and the 31 point tress was a step in the wroong direction. Part of the reason why I quit. Still and even now your looking at about 160 abilities across 3 specs, vs GW2's 50, that only 15 can be used at one time. (minus the water stuff). GW's biggest issue is that there is just not enough customization. Traits (passives) are cool, but the main ability system needs to be much more. Hell even Aerowyn agreed with my suggestion of having more main abilities which you can slot like the utilities. Yeah so what if she/he tried to use my suggestion and not give me credit ;) 

I LOVED GW2 for 3 1/2 weeks. WvW was the shit, and I posted as such, but with about 200 hours played the game became mind numbingly simple and WvW turned into a pointless zerg v gate gold sink. 

I strongly disliked some of the fundamental design before I played, I posted about it. I was blown away for three weeks when I did play, I posted about it. I lost all intrest at 52 with nothing to look forwad to, I'm posting why and giving suggestions for improvement.

Again GW2 is the most casual game on the market. If that's what you want, you'll love it. If you want more, you'll probably put it down within a month the way things stand.

BC 9/26

"Two steps to improve combat.

1. What if each of those weapons had 10 (20 would be awesome, but yeah..) abilities (instead of 2 or 3...) and you could slot which abilities you like for that weapon. 

2. Combo fieds, have different abilities trigger different active effects, not just meh buffs and debuffs. Like this, whirl A does Y in combo field Z. Whirl B does X in combo field Z. Instead of  A,B,C,D,E doing Y in combo field Z."

Aero 9/28

"GW2 has plenty of actual skills my only gripe is I would like some sort of system like the utility skill system for the weapon skills.. It would be nice to be able to swap out differn't individual skills on weapons. Hopefully this is something they will add in the future"

Originally posted by bcbully

Originally posted by Stx11

Originally posted by bcbully

When it comes to depth of core game play and character development GW2 can't hold a candle to WoW, or any of the other mmos released in the past 3 years when it comes to character development specifically.

I'm willing to tolerate and ignore most of your drivel but this is just over-the-top unmitigated BS.

For someone who thought that picking 7 Abilities that synergize from a giant list of useless crap on the wheel was "amazingly complex" maybe the problem with GW2 is Trait Selection is just too complicated for you?

WoW Talent Builds became mind-numbingly more easy with each expansion and to say that MoP's "everybody's the same except for 6 flavors of Talents" is somehow rich, superior, or deeper than the myriad of ways I can Trait out every single Profession in GW2 for a multitude of playstyles is... well asinine is the most polite term I can think of.

I know you hate GW2. I'm not completely sure why. You are certainly entitled to your opinion. But damn man, do you have to keep looking so stupid when you choose to share it? Rotations aren't deeper gameplay than actually reading and reacting and maneuvering. Choosing 6 "Flavors" of Talents isn't even close to the depth provided by Traits, Weapons, and Skills. Whether you like it or not is preference. But objectively the core game systems aren't even close.

14 (now 15) out of 525 any combination you want. I perfer that of GW2's system where your septer will do the same 3 spells forever, and your axe will do the same three spells forever, and you horn will do the same 2 spells fore ever, and your staff will do the same 5 spells FOREVER...

GW's biggest issue is that there is just not enough customization. Traits (passives) are cool, but the main ability system needs to be much more. Hell even Aerowyn agreed with my suggestion of having more main abilities which you can slot like the utilities. Yeah so what if she/he tried to use my suggestion and not give me credit ;) 

(most of which combinations suck - you know that TSW suffers from FOTMitis much worse than GW2, although I'll grant you it is a much more interesting system than what WoW is rolling these days)

Beyond that, you are aware that many Major Traits actually modify underlying Abilities right? And that these modifications can radically alter how your character plays?

I Trait my Warrior with Quick Breathing (Tactics IX) and my Warhorn Abilities now each convert a Condition to a Boon changing how the abilities function. Add Inspiring Battle Standard (Tactics XI) and my Banners now grant Regeneration changing how the abilities function.

Between Weapon Choice, Skill Selection, and Traits you can pull off almost any build combination in GW2 to match up to WoW's current specs (having to substitute Control/Survival for "Tank" and Support for "Heals). Like Demonology?  Focus on Minions or a Death Shroud boosting build. Affliction? Build for Conditions. Destruction? Focus on Power and Burst. Of course there's no way for your Warlock to take up a Support role in WoW so the converse isn't exactly true.

I still don't know where you are pulling that "160 Abilities across 3 Specs" from since most all Warlock abilities are shared across Specs and you were counting all the Passives and Pet Passives while not counting any of the Major or Minor GW2 Traits in your comparison.

And regardless, neither WoW nor TSW have you using more than 3-5 abilities most of the time in DPS rotations. TSW Builds Vs GW2 Weapons is personal preference but this idea that WoW is so much deeper because you have Water Breathing taking up a space on your bar?

Please... you can do better than that.

Originally posted by bcbully

Originally posted by Stx11

Originally posted by bcbully

When it comes to depth of core game play and character development GW2 can't hold a candle to WoW, or any of the other mmos released in the past 3 years when it comes to character development specifically.

I'm willing to tolerate and ignore most of your drivel but this is just over-the-top unmitigated BS.

For someone who thought that picking 7 Abilities that synergize from a giant list of useless crap on the wheel was "amazingly complex" maybe the problem with GW2 is Trait Selection is just too complicated for you?

WoW Talent Builds became mind-numbingly more easy with each expansion and to say that MoP's "everybody's the same except for 6 flavors of Talents" is somehow rich, superior, or deeper than the myriad of ways I can Trait out every single Profession in GW2 for a multitude of playstyles is... well asinine is the most polite term I can think of.

I know you hate GW2. I'm not completely sure why. You are certainly entitled to your opinion. But damn man, do you have to keep looking so stupid when you choose to share it? Rotations aren't deeper gameplay than actually reading and reacting and maneuvering. Choosing 6 "Flavors" of Talents isn't even close to the depth provided by Traits, Weapons, and Skills. Whether you like it or not is preference. But objectively the core game systems aren't even close.

14 (now 15) out of 525 any combination you want. I perfer that of GW2's system where your septer will do the same 3 spells forever, and your axe will do the same three spells forever, and you horn will do the same 2 spells fore ever, and your staff will do the same 5 spells FOREVER.

 

Cata and the 31 point tress was a step in the wroong direction. Part of the reason why I quit. Still and even now your looking at about 160 abilities across 3 specs, vs GW2's 50, that only 15 can be used at one time. (minus the water stuff). GW's biggest issue is that there is just not enough customization. Traits (passives) are cool, but the main ability system needs to be much more. Hell even Aerowyn agreed with my suggestion of having more main abilities which you can slot like the utilities. Yeah so what if she/he tried to use my suggestion and not give me credit ;) 

 

I LOVED GW2 for 3 1/2 weeks. WvW was the shit, and I posted as such, but with about 200 hours played the game became mind numbingly simple and WvW turned into a pointless zerg v gate gold sink. 

 

I strongly disliked some of the fundamental design before I played, I posted about it. I was blown away for three weeks when I did play, I posted about it. I lost all intrest at 52 with nothing to look forwad to, I'm posting why and giving suggestions for improvement.

 

Again GW2 is the most casual game on the market. If that's what you want, you'll love it. If you want more, you'll probably put it down within a month the way things stand.

 

 

BC 9/26

"Two steps to improve combat.

1. What if each of those weapons had 10 (20 would be awesome, but yeah..) abilities (instead of 2 or 3...) and you could slot which abilities you like for that weapon. 

2. Combo fieds, have different abilities trigger different active effects, not just meh buffs and debuffs. Like this, whirl A does Y in combo field Z. Whirl B does X in combo field Z. Instead of  A,B,C,D,E doing Y in combo field Z."

 

Aero 9/28

"GW2 has plenty of actual skills my only gripe is I would like some sort of system like the utility skill system for the weapon skills.. It would be nice to be able to swap out differn't individual skills on weapons. Hopefully this is something they will add in the future"

this

Originally posted by Stx11

 

 

I still don't know where you are pulling that "160 Abilities across 3 Specs" from since most all Warlock abilities are shared across Specs and you were counting all the Passives and Pet Passives while not counting any of the Major or Minor GW2 Traits in your comparison.

 

I counted yesterday, My bad there are 139 for a warlock across all 3 specs.

http://www.wowhead.com/class=9#abilities

Originally posted by bcbully

Originally posted by Stx11

I still don't know where you are pulling that "160 Abilities across 3 Specs" from since most all Warlock abilities are shared across Specs and you were counting all the Passives and Pet Passives while not counting any of the Major or Minor GW2 Traits in your comparison.

I counted yesterday, My bad there are 139 for a warlock across all 3 specs.

http://www.wowhead.com/class=9#abilities

So once again playing your way, counting all Passives and Talents let's compare (and we'll just choose Necromancer because Warrior just wouldn't be fair to you):

Weapon Skills: 21 Main/Off-Hand (not counting Underwater)

Heals: 3 (won't count the Human Racial)

Utilities: 20 (once again not counting Racials)

Elites: 3 (not including racials again)

Minor Traits: 15

Major Traits: 60(!!!!)

So 21+3+20+15+60= 119 "Abilitites" (as you define them - I won't even pick on you for Corruption and Rain of Fire being doubled in the lists)... yeah 139 is more than 119 for sure. It's the difference between "omgzmazing depthz!!!" and "shallow" without a doubt...

Well, at least it does if you don't have an agenda or heavy bias >.>

(EDIT: I'll also give you a free pass on me not counting Downed State or Deathshroud Abilities in the GW2 Total... even though they are Profession-Specific)

Originally posted by Stx11

Originally posted by bcbully

Originally posted by Stx11

I still don't know where you are pulling that "160 Abilities across 3 Specs" from since most all Warlock abilities are shared across Specs and you were counting all the Passives and Pet Passives while not counting any of the Major or Minor GW2 Traits in your comparison.

I counted yesterday, My bad there are 139 for a warlock across all 3 specs.

http://www.wowhead.com/class=9#abilities

So once again playing your way, counting all Passives and Talents let's compare (and we'll just choose Necromancer because Warrior just wouldn't be fair to you):

Weapon Skills: 21 Main/Off-Hand (not counting Underwater)

Heals: 3 (won't count the Human Racial)

Utilities: 20 (once again not counting Racials)

Elites: 3 (not including racials again)

Minor Traits: 15

Major Traits: 60(!!!!)

So 21+3+20+15+60= 119 "Abilitites" (as you define them - I won't even pick on you for Corruption and Rain of Fire being doubled in the lists)... yeah 139 is more than 119 for sure. It's the difference between "omgzmazing depthz!!!" and "shallow" without a doubt...

Well, at least it does if you don't have an agenda or heavy bias >.>

 

I think I've said this before, but having a shitload of abilties doesn't automatically make something deeper.

This is especially the case when you take into consideration that many abilties in WoW tend to overlap in terms of what they do. Take the spells Wrath, Starfire, and Starsurge. These are the most common spells I remember using on my Balance Druid (Pre MoP, I don't know what's changed since I'm not playing WoW anymore). They all have different cast times and cooldowns, but when it comes down to it, they all only do one thing: flat damage.

I would say a lot more than this, but I've lost my train of thought, so I'll be back to finish this post when I remember what it is I was going to say.

Originally posted by stratasaurus
This thread is about 200 posts past being on topic.

That's because the OP has been confirmed - there was no "mass exodus" of players to MoP.

The GW2 Servers are well-populated and GW2 is back to #2 and #7 on Amazon's Bestsellers List (#2 only to EVE for $5) while MoP has already fallen to #6 and is trending down.

X-Fire isn't going to pick up many of the new people who just got the game but even there while hours are down there was no huge drop in players when MoP came out.

So instead Bully and I are having a fun discussion on Abilities... enjoy or skip as you prefer!

Originally posted by Enigmatus

I think I've said this before, but having a shitload of abilties doesn't automatically make something deeper.

This is especially the case when you take into consideration that many abilties in WoW tend to overlap in terms of what they do. Take the spells Wrath, Starfire, and Starsurge. These are the most common spells I remember using on my Balance Druid (Pre MoP, I don't know what's changed since I'm not playing WoW anymore). They all have different cast times and cooldowns, but when it comes down to it, they all only do one thing: flat damage.

I would say a lot more than this, but I've lost my train of thought, so I'll be back to finish this post when I remember what it is I was going to say.

I'll chip in!

The Abilities and Builds in GW2 offer a lot of depth and diversity in strategy and how they impact playstyle. Each Weapon and Utility Skill tends to have a unique and situational purpose beyond "direct damage" - they can spread or clear Conditions, Boon allies, grant Protection and they often synergize with each other in a good Build enhancing your play experience with skilled play.

Most GW2 Abilities do "double or triple duty" compared to WoW abilities - damage+condition+boon for example, and the best Builds for PvP or Dungeons require a lot more utility than WoW DPS specs.

People who have only spent their time following Zergs in Open World PvE or WvW without diving into all that Builds have to offer are missing out on a lot of depth. It is definitely there for the people who want it.