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News & Features Discussion  » [Column] General: On MMOs Going Solo

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85 posts found
  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5511

9/26/12 12:50:46 PM#21
Originally posted by Soulrift

The September 2012 issue of Game Developer Magazine has a fantastic article titled "The Care Bear Myth: Debunking a Game Design Urban Legend" by Jason Vanderberghe (creative director at Ubisoft) that might help shed some light on the situation.

The article describes research into player's competitiveness, with the original goal of finding "care bears" who don't like competitive gameplay. What the research found was that everyone liked competitive gameplay, but that some people inherently preferred team-based competitive games.

The deeper reasoning for this preference was that while some players took everything personally--they saw themselves as the only important part of a team and saw their own personal success as the only thing that mattered--other players internalized community membership and most valued community membership and success.

The research went on to show that the most extreme of the solo-type players tended to get the most enjoyment when their personal success was at the expense of other people's failures. In other words, by making other people lose, their victory became sweeter (versus a fully single-player game, where their victory came at no one's expense). Conversely, the most extreme of the community-type players tended to get the most enjoyment when the largest number of people were able to win together; ideally with nobody losing. And this type of co-operative play is most prominantly seen in MMORPG grouping and raiding.

It should come as no surprise that these two types of people don't really get along, especially in team play environments. I suspect that the play, No Exit, refers to a group of solo-type players. I've certainly seen them in raids: players so wholely concerned with being the top DPS they'll actively sabotage other people's efforts in order to get to or remain at the top.

The "problem" with solo-ification is that it attracts more solo-type players. This is a "problem" from the team-type player's perspective, who wants to find a team of mostly other team-type players to raid with.

I'd point out that the general loathing for a "pug" originated well after the development of MMORPGs; that, in early games where players had to group up to accomplish anything, grouping with strangers was not an unpleasant thing. This was because the extreme anti-solo-ification of these games tended to drive out solo-type players, leaving a large community of largely team-type players happy and able to cooperate.

Perhaps the simplest solution for everyone would be to administer an automated personality test to new players, and attempt to group them up by compatibility scores? WoWHarmony, anyone?

I have a hard time buying into this research and its conclusions.  For one, a person who is in a raid trying to be top tier dps at the expense of others isn't a solo player.  They are a selfish bastard.  A solo player isn't ever (or very rarely ever) going to be in a raid in the first place.

As a counter-example to the article's claim, the recently released GW2 virtually eliminates the competition between players in pve and yet tons of solo and group oriented people help each other out on a consistent basis.

Those claims you've made need a lot more factual support and a lot less conjecture, invented scenarios, and personal opinion.

I think a mind wipe so people could play an mmo like it was their first time again, would be easier to build than a new mmo people here would actually like. - DamonVile

  Mariner-80

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/02/07
Posts: 345

9/26/12 1:09:06 PM#22
Originally posted by blbeta

The answer if fairly simple for me.  I have been playing MMOs since 1999 and started with Asheron's Call.

Scale & Content

No other games really come close to the size and content that MMOs offer.  There have been a few that feel like it at first, but after some time in them you typically realize they are not.  This is not to say "all" MMOs have great scale and content.

Other reasons that make MMOs attractive to this soloist:

  • Others make the world feel more alive even if I don't game with them
  • Challenge to try group content solo (doesn't always work out too well)
  • Share the experience with RL friends and others if I so choose
Soloist/Group - 80/20 %
 
Even in a game like Planetside I did a lot of soloing.  Great fun taking out objectives alone.
 
As long as it is fun, which soloing is for me, isn't that the point of gaming?

This is a pretty good summary of where I am, too.

 

In my opinion, the ideal MMO offers group content a la carte, like dessert for them as wants it, but not critical to progression in the game. As long as an MMO offers what I feel to be a full game's worth of solo content, I'm content. Some MMOs -- SWTOR, STO, GW2, etc. -- do a better, richer job of this than others.

 

GW2 does better than most, in fact, since it allows you to progress in multiple ways (DEs, dungeons, crafting, exploration, puzzles, personal story, etc.), depending on your preferred playstyle.

  GrumpyMel2

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/24/09
Posts: 1789

9/26/12 1:43:51 PM#23

I don't neccesarly have a problem with people who want to play a more solo focused game but it is inherently incompatible with the preferences of people who want to play a team-oriented/group experience.

Golf is a game with a solo focused rulset. Baseball is a game with a group focused ruleset. Both provide thier own experiences and rewards. However people looking for a group oriented experience really aren't going to be satisfied with playing by a golf ruleset even if it's somewhat modified to be freindlier to groups. They are really looking for baseball not golf. Trying to appeal to both preferences within the same ruleset is really misguided.

Appealing to the widest possible demographic is actualy a rookie mistake if you are competing in a crowded market. The reason is that your product is going to get beat in every single segment of that demographic by competitors that are more focused on the individual preferences of those segments and are therefore able to deliver a stronger product offering in those segments. I think we are actualy starting to see that in some of the dissapointing performances in recent MMO's and Developers/Publishers seem to be recognizing that in some of the noises they are making about upcoming products and how they are trying to differentiate themselves. Part of that may simply be due to the fact that Development cycles are so long that 5 years ago when many of the recent releases were conceptualized, the market looked different.

In terms of  the popularity of "solofication", I think we have, for a variety of reasons, become more isolated from one another in our society in general, more socialy inept/awkward and far less understanding of the concepts of needing to strive for achievements and learning to compromise in working with others to achieve goals.

If you look at something as simple and basic that at lower school levels kids aren't allowed to "lose" at sports and scores aren't even kept, you can see how this evolves. So when little Bobby plays basketball, he never learns that instead of shooting the ball every time he gets his hands on it, he should try to pass it to another player who has a better shot. He doesn't learn that, because there are no negative consequences associated with his behavior. His team doesn't "loose" because of it and he gets his gold star at the end of the game just like everyone else.

What do you think happens to little Bobby when he gets older? He think's he's entitled to shoot whenever he gets the ball, he thinks he's entitled to a gold star regardless of the results he gets and he gets resentfull and angry at the suggestion that he should pass to someone else.....so he actively avoids any situation that calls for it. Little Bobby has never been ALLOWED to learn what it means to play as part of a team, what it means to compromise with others or even what it means to fail. He doesn't feel comfortable with those sorts of situations so he actively avoids them. He takes those characteristics with him in terms of his entertainment preferences (e.g. games) and sadly far more important aspects of his life.

  Larsa

Novice Member

Joined: 2/14/04
Posts: 992

9/26/12 2:43:33 PM#24

Good article, very well written, very well researched. Gratulation.

I agree that it's not that the developers are forcing the solo-aspect on the players: it's a large number of players that seem to demand single-player MMORPGs. It's not only whether grouping or not: anonymous trade via auction houses (no need to get into contact with a crafter), characters that have no roles because they can do everything for themselves (no need for specialists) all seem to follow the design principle to limit player interdependence as much as possible.

And that's probably was the design principle is: nothing what a customer does can have any noticeable effect on the gaming experience of another customer. We've seen that it's a great recipe to sell millions of boxes.

I maintain this List of Sandbox MMORPGs. Please post or send PM for corrections and suggestions.

  Vynt

Elite Member

Joined: 9/19/04
Posts: 596

9/26/12 4:17:09 PM#25
Originally posted by tmr819
Originally posted by blbeta

The answer if fairly simple for me.  I have been playing MMOs since 1999 and started with Asheron's Call.

Scale & Content

No other games really come close to the size and content that MMOs offer.  There have been a few that feel like it at first, but after some time in them you typically realize they are not.  This is not to say "all" MMOs have great scale and content.

Other reasons that make MMOs attractive to this soloist:

  • Others make the world feel more alive even if I don't game with them
  • Challenge to try group content solo (doesn't always work out too well)
  • Share the experience with RL friends and others if I so choose
Soloist/Group - 80/20 %
 
Even in a game like Planetside I did a lot of soloing.  Great fun taking out objectives alone.
 
As long as it is fun, which soloing is for me, isn't that the point of gaming?

This is a pretty good summary of where I am, too.

 

In my opinion, the ideal MMO offers group content a la carte, like dessert for them as wants it, but not critical to progression in the game. As long as an MMO offers what I feel to be a full game's worth of solo content, I'm content. Some MMOs -- SWTOR, STO, GW2, etc. -- do a better, richer job of this than others.

 

GW2 does better than most, in fact, since it allows you to progress in multiple ways (DEs, dungeons, crafting, exploration, puzzles, personal story, etc.), depending on your preferred playstyle.

I am at the opposite end of this. For me, I prefer grouping to be the standard path of progressing, but being able to solo still viable. When I played EQ and daoc, grouping was definitely the way to go, but I could still solo to max if I wanted to. It just wasn't the best way.

Now is the opposite. Soloing is often the best or fastest, or even easiest way to solo to max, where grouping is not. People say you can still group in those solo favored games, but the thing is, if soloing is easier, people tend to take the path of least resistance and solo, making grouping harder to find others who want to group just for the sake of grouping. The whole dungeon finder thing did promote grouping a bit more and made it even faster for some, but that felt less like grouping than just rushing through something with people who happened to be near you.

Also it seems, if the game promotes soloing for progression more, then requires grouping at end game, most people don't know how to play their class and how it relates to playing with others.

 

I understand people tend to hate pugs these days, but when I went back to EQ for progression server, I grouped a lot with random people, and had some of the best moments in an MMO in a long time. I usually have more positive experiences than negative in pugs. Even back in vanilla WoW, I joined my guild by doing a pug for scholo, they liked how well I played and asked if I wanted to join.

Kind of hard to get to know people and join like minded people if you start a game alone and no one wants to group, lol.

  djzod

Novice Member

Joined: 9/26/12
Posts: 1

9/26/12 4:49:53 PM#26

The fact of the matter is, despite the fact that they are playing a multiplayer game, most people don't really want to team up.  Think about this for a moment.  Let's say you have quest that involves going around and smashing monkies in the head and collecting monkey brains.  You see three other people in the area, also smashing monkies in the head to grab monkey brains. You know that, the way the quest works, if all of you are grouped, and you smash a monkey in the head, all of you can collect the brains.  It would be more efficient if all of you group up, collect your brains, and then go your separate ways.  Still, what will most players do?  Will they offer to group up?  Not usually.  Instead they will try to outrun the other players to make sure they get their own monkey brains first.  

Here's an even worse (and sadly even more common) scenario that occurs in open world content.  This time you have a quest where you have to run around an area and collect widgets off of the ground.  Most of these widgets are heavily guarded by monkies who are trying to avenge their friends you smashed in the head during first quest.  You will need to kill the monkies before you can get your widgets, and you can't collect a widget while you are fighting.  So you go in to bravely slay the well-armed monkies.  In the middle of your fight, some jerk who's too scared (or lazy) to kill his own monkies runs up and grabs your widget, then runs off, not even bothering to help you finish off the monkies.

The tendency is for people to tream multi-player games as competive, rather than cooperative.  Even if they are teamed up, this mentality will persist.  How many times have you seen this one?  You are in a team and you have just slayed a group of foes.  One of them has some loot.  Regardless of who actually collects the loot, it's going to end up being shared amongst the team.  Yet, multiple team mates will run towards the corpse to try to be the first one to click it.  Why? 

Additionally, for the most part, unless it is a group of friends that have been playing various games together for some time, they aren't going play at the same pace.  You are either gonna feel like you are being rushed or you are being slowed down.  Regardless of which, it is a negative experience.    How do you avoid it?  By not grouping up.

  Samhael

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/28/04
Posts: 600

9/26/12 5:52:42 PM#27
If I want a single player game, I can and do play a single player game. For MMOs, I want a group experience or at least a game that supports/rewards grouping.  The Secret World had some interesting stuff but I really didn't enjoy most of the solo-only quests. 
  VirusDancer

Novice Member

Joined: 11/18/04
Posts: 3684

Heroes are about character - not gear.

9/26/12 6:03:52 PM#28

Generally speaking, I do not like the majority of people that play MMOs these days.  I do not want to play with them.  That social number in my sig was not always that low...but then again, neither was my opinion of the majority of folks that play MMOs.

I mainly play MMOs by myself these days - the only real "group" content I participate in is PvP.  But then again, like I said... I do not like the majority of people that play MMOs these days.  :)

I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?

Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%

  Aluscia

Novice Member

Joined: 9/06/08
Posts: 31

9/26/12 6:26:02 PM#29

I find the main reason to not group (for me) is the difficulty in aligning quest objectives and KEEPING the group together on the tiers of completion. Another difficulty for me is when people do quests in really inefficient ways (due to lack of knowledge about the quest, inattentiveness or just general apathy towards what they're doing) after asking to join you. I love to play every game I choose to play, but ultimately, Hell is other people.... it holds true in every game for me.

That said, there are other group objectives I actively enjoy pursuing - Dungeons/Raids are my main source of enjoyment, as the group sense of accomplishment after completing challenging content is second to nothing for me. I don't care if you can get the same rewards from solo grinding, or pvp, or whatever... I will always choose dungeon running because it's fun and gives you a chance to work together with people.

I'm actually in a bit of an MMO-choosing conundrum because of this. I can't decide if I want to struggle with the complete unfriendliness that is GW2 group pve, or if I want to try another less-popular game and have trouble finding groups to do what most gives me joy.

An interesting, thought-provoking read. Thanks!

  enntense

Novice Member

Joined: 9/26/12
Posts: 15

9/26/12 8:22:24 PM#30
Funny, I would think exactly the opposite.  Making the entire game practically soloable does not promote social ability.  It promotes thousands of jerks, who kill the fun for everyone else, because they have no social accountability, they can be the bigest downer turd in the game, and what can you do?  People seem to wan't to play MMO's now where no one else in the game can have any influence on your game, why not just play Skyrim?  In older MMO's like EQ1, you had to group to progress, and if you were a jerk, an elitist, or just a mean person, guess what?  People wouldn't group with you, they remembered you.  You could get a bad rep, now no one has any rep, one player is the same as any other, as they interact as little as possible, playing their solo MMO's. I'm currently playing GW2, with the mob mentality, 50 people show up at a zone event, and none are grouped, you can't see anyones health, there is no plan, or strategy. 
  Blackhound

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/25/05
Posts: 46

9/26/12 8:23:34 PM#31

Having been playing RPGs and MMOs for over 20 years, I'm going to make this statement as much to get a rise out of rabid newbies to the genre (yes, if you started playing multiplayer online games in just the last 10 years you're a newbie).

Guild Wars 2 is too easy, even solo. I was plowing through group content 8-10 levels under the reccomended group range. Experience of decades helps - you know, back when games were hard because you gained a sense of achievement for actually overcoming something the average person could not. MMOs are there to cater to the average people, after all, aren't they?

They get what they pay for, an experience crafted around making them feel good about themselves while they're busy doing nothing impressive at all. If solo players want to feel good about themselves for doing nothing, shouldn't they get the opportunity as well? It's more money in the bank for developers.

  abottemiller

Novice Member

Joined: 12/02/09
Posts: 43

It is better to learn it today than to suffer for it tomorrow

9/26/12 9:36:17 PM#32
this is the reason I play mmo's today. I can play by myself, and not have to rely on others. It is fun to group at times but I like solo so much more. MMO's apeal to me becuse the world is updated and taken care of for me. Instead of spending 50-60 bucks a month for games i spend 0 - 15 and have a game I like and that Im familure with. Does this stop me from buying a particularly good pc offline game? no but Im not searching for one either.
  abottemiller

Novice Member

Joined: 12/02/09
Posts: 43

It is better to learn it today than to suffer for it tomorrow

9/26/12 9:36:59 PM#33
Originally posted by Blackhound

Having been playing RPGs and MMOs for over 20 years, I'm going to make this statement as much to get a rise out of rabid newbies to the genre (yes, if you started playing multiplayer online games in just the last 10 years you're a newbie).

Guild Wars 2 is too easy, even solo. I was plowing through group content 8-10 levels under the reccomended group range. Experience of decades helps - you know, back when games were hard because you gained a sense of achievement for actually overcoming something the average person could not. MMOs are there to cater to the average people, after all, aren't they?

They get what they pay for, an experience crafted around making them feel good about themselves while they're busy doing nothing impressive at all. If solo players want to feel good about themselves for doing nothing, shouldn't they get the opportunity as well? It's more money in the bank for developers.

Remember muds?

  abottemiller

Novice Member

Joined: 12/02/09
Posts: 43

It is better to learn it today than to suffer for it tomorrow

9/26/12 9:38:42 PM#34
Originally posted by tmr819
Originally posted by blbeta

The answer if fairly simple for me.  I have been playing MMOs since 1999 and started with Asheron's Call.

Scale & Content

No other games really come close to the size and content that MMOs offer.  There have been a few that feel like it at first, but after some time in them you typically realize they are not.  This is not to say "all" MMOs have great scale and content.

Other reasons that make MMOs attractive to this soloist:

  • Others make the world feel more alive even if I don't game with them
  • Challenge to try group content solo (doesn't always work out too well)
  • Share the experience with RL friends and others if I so choose
Soloist/Group - 80/20 %
 
Even in a game like Planetside I did a lot of soloing.  Great fun taking out objectives alone.
 
As long as it is fun, which soloing is for me, isn't that the point of gaming?

This is a pretty good summary of where I am, too.

 

In my opinion, the ideal MMO offers group content a la carte, like dessert for them as wants it, but not critical to progression in the game. As long as an MMO offers what I feel to be a full game's worth of solo content, I'm content. Some MMOs -- SWTOR, STO, GW2, etc. -- do a better, richer job of this than others.

 

GW2 does better than most, in fact, since it allows you to progress in multiple ways (DEs, dungeons, crafting, exploration, puzzles, personal story, etc.), depending on your preferred playstyle.

Me to. My son will not play most mmo's saying they are shallow and I say you havent tried enough good ones :)

  abottemiller

Novice Member

Joined: 12/02/09
Posts: 43

It is better to learn it today than to suffer for it tomorrow

9/26/12 9:41:08 PM#35
Originally posted by GrumpyMel2

I don't neccesarly have a problem with people who want to play a more solo focused game but it is inherently incompatible with the preferences of people who want to play a team-oriented/group experience.

Golf is a game with a solo focused rulset. Baseball is a game with a group focused ruleset. Both provide thier own experiences and rewards. However people looking for a group oriented experience really aren't going to be satisfied with playing by a golf ruleset even if it's somewhat modified to be freindlier to groups. They are really looking for baseball not golf. Trying to appeal to both preferences within the same ruleset is really misguided.

Appealing to the widest possible demographic is actualy a rookie mistake if you are competing in a crowded market. The reason is that your product is going to get beat in every single segment of that demographic by competitors that are more focused on the individual preferences of those segments and are therefore able to deliver a stronger product offering in those segments. I think we are actualy starting to see that in some of the dissapointing performances in recent MMO's and Developers/Publishers seem to be recognizing that in some of the noises they are making about upcoming products and how they are trying to differentiate themselves. Part of that may simply be due to the fact that Development cycles are so long that 5 years ago when many of the recent releases were conceptualized, the market looked different.

In terms of  the popularity of "solofication", I think we have, for a variety of reasons, become more isolated from one another in our society in general, more socialy inept/awkward and far less understanding of the concepts of needing to strive for achievements and learning to compromise in working with others to achieve goals.

If you look at something as simple and basic that at lower school levels kids aren't allowed to "lose" at sports and scores aren't even kept, you can see how this evolves. So when little Bobby plays basketball, he never learns that instead of shooting the ball every time he gets his hands on it, he should try to pass it to another player who has a better shot. He doesn't learn that, because there are no negative consequences associated with his behavior. His team doesn't "loose" because of it and he gets his gold star at the end of the game just like everyone else.

What do you think happens to little Bobby when he gets older? He think's he's entitled to shoot whenever he gets the ball, he thinks he's entitled to a gold star regardless of the results he gets and he gets resentfull and angry at the suggestion that he should pass to someone else.....so he actively avoids any situation that calls for it. Little Bobby has never been ALLOWED to learn what it means to play as part of a team, what it means to compromise with others or even what it means to fail. He doesn't feel comfortable with those sorts of situations so he actively avoids them. He takes those characteristics with him in terms of his entertainment preferences (e.g. games) and sadly far more important aspects of his life.

I really think you are off the mark here. I think that if a game company takes this outlook they will fail. Most of the really successful MMO's have a large solo content and in today's market they need to cater to bothe sides of the isle.

  Banquetto

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/06/09
Posts: 1025

9/26/12 10:38:35 PM#36

There are many reasons why it is important for MMOs to provide meaningful solo play options. To expect all players to engage in group play all the time ignores realities of timezones, game populations, character demographics (e.g. new players joining when the bulk of existing players are at endgame), different players' availability of uninterrupted playtime, etc.

 

So given these factors, it is absolutely appropriate that MMOs move away from the oldschool forced grouping designs and allow people to engage in fun and worthwhile activities solo.

 

Where the whole thing comes unglued, however, is that it collides with the modern entitled viewpoint that I deserve everything, that nobody else should have anything that I don't have, no matter what. Players with this attitude (and they are sadly numerous these days) whine and bitch and kick up a stink if they can't get everything through their preferred playstyle, and cause endless grief for any developers who try to follow the very reasonable course of providing meaningful solo play, but providing genuine incentives for cooperative and/or competitive group play.

 

  goemoe

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/27/04
Posts: 145

9/27/12 2:35:02 AM#37

Why I started to play MMOs (back in 99') does not matter, because the market has changed, general pc games have changed and the people as well. For me it has been something new and I went to try it out.

Today I only play MMOs, nothing else. So when I want to play solo with some chitchat in the background I do so, be it via chat or voicechat. When I want to get some group experience, I can get that as well from my MMO of choice.

I believe MMOs are just the beginning, in the long term every single game out there will be "MMO" to some degree and you will be back to games offering more this or that like some 12 years ago.
  VirusDancer

Novice Member

Joined: 11/18/04
Posts: 3684

Heroes are about character - not gear.

9/27/12 2:44:45 AM#38
Originally posted by Banquetto

There are many reasons why it is important for MMOs to provide meaningful solo play options. To expect all players to engage in group play all the time ignores realities of timezones, game populations, character demographics (e.g. new players joining when the bulk of existing players are at endgame), different players' availability of uninterrupted playtime, etc.

 

So given these factors, it is absolutely appropriate that MMOs move away from the oldschool forced grouping designs and allow people to engage in fun and worthwhile activities solo.

 

Where the whole thing comes unglued, however, is that it collides with the modern entitled viewpoint that I deserve everything, that nobody else should have anything that I don't have, no matter what. Players with this attitude (and they are sadly numerous these days) whine and bitch and kick up a stink if they can't get everything through their preferred playstyle, and cause endless grief for any developers who try to follow the very reasonable course of providing meaningful solo play, but providing genuine incentives for cooperative and/or competitive group play.

 

Heh, that could be a stock reply to the majority of posts, eh?  It's a shame...meh.  :(

I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?

Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%

  tupodawg999

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/10/08
Posts: 571

9/27/12 3:12:11 AM#39

All the advantages given for solo play are true but there are two major problems with it

 

1) Humans are social animals. Social animals aren't that way just because they like being sociable. They are that way because they couldn't survive (in game terms: achieve goals) except in a group.

 

So whether people like it or not social == sticky beause humans are made that way.

 

The proof of this would be to ask all those people who mostly play solo while chatting with players they've known a long time is how/where did they meet those players? I bet most of them initially met doing content that required a group to survive/achieve and that of the 100+ players they met that way the people they still travel to different games with are the 4-8 of that 100+ they got on with best.

 

To get to that small group of 4-8 you generally have to go through 100+ people who annoy you.

 

Now all the practical reasons for anti-grouping still apply but despite that social will always equal sticky because that is how humans are made so the question them becomes what is the best compromise. It is very tricky but i'd suggest the first step might be to move the argument from solo vs group of 5+ to solo vs group of 2+.

 

===

 

2) The solo quest chain model has some inevitable logic to it.

 

If all the classes are doing the same quests then the quests have to be designed around the weakest solo class. This means either the quests become a faceroll for the best solo classes *or* over time the classes gradually become more and more similar via some mechanism or other e.g. specs or souls or whatever, so the gap between the best and worst solo class becomes less and less.

 

Slightly separately but also if the focus is on endgame then there is no need for multiple solo quest chains. At most you only need two for pvp

 

So, *even if* the optimal course was providing an online single player game within the context of an mmo the current course doesn't work because the trend has been towards creating *one* single player game inside an mmo - because the classes play mostly the same and play through the same quest chain. So it's not surprising if player's quit after they finish it.

 

(The SWTOR model ought to have worked on this level at least with players treating different classes as effectively a different single player game. I can only assume it didn't work out because the inidividual class stories weren't different enough.)

 

So *even if* the best mmorog model is a place where a lot of people play a single player game on the same server then the model has been moving away from that because if an mmo wants players to play longer than they play a single player game then an mmo needs to either a) constantly and rapidly produce sequels (expansions in mmo terms) or have *multiple* single player games within the same game i.e. where playing a human thief is as different as possible an experience as playing an ogre warrior (i.e. more like the ES model of RPG).

 

 
 
  Agent_Joseph

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/11/06
Posts: 773

9/27/12 3:33:34 AM#40

it is why are many new mmorpg's filled with asocial population

best mmo games are maked before 2005, when mmo mean social  team work

 

Look ,today  many peoples count D3 & Torhlight as mmo, something is wrong with todays mmorpg players.

only EVE is real MMO...but I am impressive with TSW

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