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News & Features Discussion  » [Interview] Darkfall: Unholy Wars: Reshaping Darkfall's Sandbox

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162 posts found
  corpusc

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Joined: 7/25/03
Posts: 1378

CHATTANOOGAN

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9/26/12 2:30:24 PM#81
Originally posted by Stravas
TBH DarkFall as it exists right now has the most interesting mob AI that I've seen . . . creatures actually flee from combat and then counterattack instead of mindlessly fighting to the death against even ridiculous odds as in 99.9% of MMOs.

 

exactly.  

don't listen to the opposite of reality comments of the clueless people.

the ones that think hotbar whackamole while rolling virtual dice, standing still and stuffing their face with thier left hand is what a game should be all about.

 

thats the inherent nature of many comments on mmorpg.com.   people obsessed with the traditional RPG models of  "combat" have no way of judging anything outside of that.

The End
---------------------------
i don't expect to like Darkfall, altho i may like it MORE than other MMOs. i know it is gonna have a very frustrating level of grind to it, even if its significantly less than most. waiting for a pure FAST action virtual world. dice rolling & character levels (even "skills") IN COMBAT should have never carried over from pencil & paper to a computer that can reasonably model 3D spaces and objects

  Angier2758

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/05/09
Posts: 1060

9/26/12 2:35:53 PM#82
Originally posted by corpusc
Originally posted by Angier2758
Originally posted by corpusc
Originally posted by Tamanous

I still hope to hear word about mob AI and the pve element to the game. If that is fleshed out along side the pvp system the game will take off. If mobs are nothing more than a grind tool to level in order to do nothing else later but pvp the game will still be a barren wasteland and nothing more than a massive battleground disguised as an mmo.

 

The pve element to an mmo is critical. It's creates a living world and creates cause for war. Mobs should be a resource worth fighting over just like land and harvesting points. It of course interests those who think an mmo is more than just ganking people 24/7. The first Darkfall was just slightly more exciting than pong when fighting npc's.

 

is this opposite day?

DF has the best PVE by far of any MMO i've tried (almost all of them), and its one of its greatest attributes.  and it IS all those things you said it should be.

its all the other MMOs that need to catch up to Darkfall with their PVE mechanics.

and most of them ARE finally moving in that action direction after DF beat them by 3 years.

 

 What  the heck are you smoking?  DF pve was garbage.

 

its garbage if you're a garbage gamer.  

let me guess, you find traditional MMO combat interesting and think it involves skill?

 

 

 Mob AI did nothing... very weak coding.  Wooohoo you can't tab target... so tough when the mob does nothing.  Mobs FLEE? OMG really?! 99% of game don't have that?  Really?!  Are you even playing any other games?  In pretty much every mmorpg mobs flee at low health... that's not an example of great AI... That's bottom rung that everyone has.

Also the whole point of exploring is to find something... not just run over an empty landscape for the sake of it.  "Oh look I found a rock!" - DF explorer

Honestly posts like yours make me happy that DF failed so hard; it was a poor excuse for a game, period.... gamers have spoken. DF was not a sandbox just a giant arena with some shoddy crafting.  I think old versions of AOL have more users than DF.

Good day sir.

 
  corpusc

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/25/03
Posts: 1378

CHATTANOOGAN

contact me if you are seriously interested in
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9/26/12 2:37:22 PM#83
Originally posted by Uhwop
Originally posted by corpusc
Originally posted by Uhwop
Originally posted by Flex1

I would want more info on the sandbox part of the game and not news on how more awesome the pvp part of the game will be.

 

This game is advertized as a sandbox yet all the comments I see are that pve sucks majorly.

 Even better would be for the developers, two months prior to it's release, to talk about something other than graphics and UI. 

 

i'd agree on the graphics part.

 

but the UI was probably THE #1 dealbreaker for most people with Darkfall.  i had a number of personal friends that said the gameplay and world itself was great but they just refused to get used to the quirks and all the needless complications/clunkiness of the UI.  and i couldn't blame them, even tho i personally found it worth getting used to.

 

 I was in the minority.  I didn't think the UI was very good by any measure, but it never actually bothered me.  It did bother me that a lot of people were using stuff like autoHK to do things in the UI at inhuman speeds, like looting. 

Concerning your previous post.  I'm not really sure what you mean by DF being 3yrs ahead of every other game as far as PvE went.  It was literally the same kind of PvE that Lineage 2 had minus interesting dungeons and quests. 

The game is actually very much like L2, except that guilds have much less impact on the surrounding world when they owned a castle. 

Especially when you consider that they're changing dungeons and adding more quests and lore to the world, according to DF.  If the PvE was years ahead of every other game, they wouldn't be changing, and people wouldn't have been complaining that it's just griding on mobs to raise stats so you can PvP.  It's not like guilds were fighting each other to kill the dragon in the middle of the map on a regular basis, and a lot of people were complaining that many of the harder mobs in the game weren't worth killing at all. 

Not to mention the level of mob exploiting in the game that I'd never seen in any other MMO. 

The AI was actually pretty good, but the PvE as a whole was still just grinding the same mob in the same area for incredibly long periods of time to raise stats.  It's a little hard to be years ahead of other games when that's how old MMO's worked.  MMO's have been evolving away from that for a reason. 

 

how can you compare it to L2 combat?  they are in seperate worlds (cue comment about "yeah, L2's is so much better") with totally different paradigms.  

Darkfall is action combat.  thats where majority of MMOs seem to be headed now.

they aren't changing the core combat of PVE or DF.  they just have some tweaks.  where did you hear otherwise?

people were complaining because they were FORCED to skill up (a HUGE amount of skilling up) on PVE when all many of them wanted was to go straight to PVP.   but to compete in PVP (in the past) meant endless grinding in PVE.  nobody likes endless grinding of anything....especially when the game was billed a "PVP game".

i'm talking about the action combat being years ahead.  NOT THE ENTIRE GAME.   2012 saw a lot of DF influence creeping into even mainstream MMOs

The End
---------------------------
i don't expect to like Darkfall, altho i may like it MORE than other MMOs. i know it is gonna have a very frustrating level of grind to it, even if its significantly less than most. waiting for a pure FAST action virtual world. dice rolling & character levels (even "skills") IN COMBAT should have never carried over from pencil & paper to a computer that can reasonably model 3D spaces and objects

  GrayGhost79

Novice Member

Joined: 8/30/08
Posts: 4888

9/26/12 2:39:54 PM#84
Originally posted by corpusc
Originally posted by Stravas
TBH DarkFall as it exists right now has the most interesting mob AI that I've seen . . . creatures actually flee from combat and then counterattack instead of mindlessly fighting to the death against even ridiculous odds as in 99.9% of MMOs.

 

exactly.  

don't listen to the opposite of reality comments of the clueless people.

the ones that think hotbar whackamole while rolling virtual dice, standing still and stuffing their face with thier left hand is what a game should be all about.

 

thats the inherent nature of many comments on mmorpg.com.   people obsessed with the traditional RPG models of  "combat" have no way of judging anything outside of that.

The problem is that is what it was supposed to do, thats not actually how the AI worked which is why the complaint about the AI  exists. It's not the worst AI around, but it's fair from the best lol. 

  Angier2758

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/05/09
Posts: 1060

9/26/12 2:42:15 PM#85
Originally posted by GrayGhost79
Originally posted by corpusc
Originally posted by Stravas
TBH DarkFall as it exists right now has the most interesting mob AI that I've seen . . . creatures actually flee from combat and then counterattack instead of mindlessly fighting to the death against even ridiculous odds as in 99.9% of MMOs.

 

exactly.  

don't listen to the opposite of reality comments of the clueless people.

the ones that think hotbar whackamole while rolling virtual dice, standing still and stuffing their face with thier left hand is what a game should be all about.

 

thats the inherent nature of many comments on mmorpg.com.   people obsessed with the traditional RPG models of  "combat" have no way of judging anything outside of that.

The problem is that is what it was supposed to do, thats not actually how the AI worked which is why the complaint about the AI  exists. It's not the worst AI around, but it's fair from the best lol. 

 

 Well he thinks mobs running away at low health is an example of amazing AI... he sounds like a shill.

 My little brother programmed a lego mindstorm buggy to back away if it hit someone's foot... probably more intelligent AI there and that was what like 12-14 years ago?
  corpusc

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/25/03
Posts: 1378

CHATTANOOGAN

contact me if you are seriously interested in
* C#
* making an old schoolish FPS

9/26/12 2:42:23 PM#86
Originally posted by Uhwop
Originally posted by Flex1
Originally posted by TsaboHavoc
Originally posted by Flex1

I would want more info on the sandbox part of the game and not news on how more awesome the pvp part of the game will be.

 

This game is advertized as a sandbox yet all the comments I see are that pve sucks majorly.

my worries too, make me think if this game is a sandbox  or a excuse for a FPS PVP arena.

 

Exactly. Right now all I see is a Guild centered player vs player exclusive game. That is not sandbox, that is pure team pvp. A "sandbox" game needs both to be called that, player versus enviroment and player versus player. If a player wants to be an explorer and find secret places and fight mythical beasts then he should be able to do so, if another player wants to be a bandit trying to rob that explorer he should be able to do so too BUT the explorer doesn't exist here.

 I would agree.  I even made a thread when the original game launched about it not being a true sandbox because of pretty much this.

Tasos said that they made UW with people who were hesitant to try the original DF in mind, yet they have have to say if they even bothered to address the PK system they have in place currently.  The PK system that was easily exploitable, and nonconsequential. 

There was so much ganking in the game because the PK system didn't adiquetely discourage people from killing other players.  And having people constantly running in front of you while you're fighting a mob off in the hopes that you'll hit them twice and turn grey so they can kill you without penalty was beyond annoying. 

 

to all the numerous people wondering along these lines.

don't get your hopes up.   you should probably scratch DF off your list if you weren't interested in any of the features of DF1.

 

if you don't think DF1 was a  sandbox, you WILL feel the same way about UW.  they are not making much if any changes towards the direction you are interested in.

UW is just a refinement and polishing of DF1.

that's ALL it is.

The End
---------------------------
i don't expect to like Darkfall, altho i may like it MORE than other MMOs. i know it is gonna have a very frustrating level of grind to it, even if its significantly less than most. waiting for a pure FAST action virtual world. dice rolling & character levels (even "skills") IN COMBAT should have never carried over from pencil & paper to a computer that can reasonably model 3D spaces and objects

  Uhwop

Elite Member

Joined: 3/20/10
Posts: 1656

9/26/12 2:54:35 PM#87
Originally posted by corpusc
Originally posted by Uhwop
Originally posted by corpusc
Originally posted by Uhwop
Originally posted by Flex1

I would want more info on the sandbox part of the game and not news on how more awesome the pvp part of the game will be.

 

This game is advertized as a sandbox yet all the comments I see are that pve sucks majorly.

 Even better would be for the developers, two months prior to it's release, to talk about something other than graphics and UI. 

 

i'd agree on the graphics part.

 

but the UI was probably THE #1 dealbreaker for most people with Darkfall.  i had a number of personal friends that said the gameplay and world itself was great but they just refused to get used to the quirks and all the needless complications/clunkiness of the UI.  and i couldn't blame them, even tho i personally found it worth getting used to.

 

 I was in the minority.  I didn't think the UI was very good by any measure, but it never actually bothered me.  It did bother me that a lot of people were using stuff like autoHK to do things in the UI at inhuman speeds, like looting. 

Concerning your previous post.  I'm not really sure what you mean by DF being 3yrs ahead of every other game as far as PvE went.  It was literally the same kind of PvE that Lineage 2 had minus interesting dungeons and quests. 

The game is actually very much like L2, except that guilds have much less impact on the surrounding world when they owned a castle. 

Especially when you consider that they're changing dungeons and adding more quests and lore to the world, according to DF.  If the PvE was years ahead of every other game, they wouldn't be changing, and people wouldn't have been complaining that it's just griding on mobs to raise stats so you can PvP.  It's not like guilds were fighting each other to kill the dragon in the middle of the map on a regular basis, and a lot of people were complaining that many of the harder mobs in the game weren't worth killing at all. 

Not to mention the level of mob exploiting in the game that I'd never seen in any other MMO. 

The AI was actually pretty good, but the PvE as a whole was still just grinding the same mob in the same area for incredibly long periods of time to raise stats.  It's a little hard to be years ahead of other games when that's how old MMO's worked.  MMO's have been evolving away from that for a reason. 

 

how can you compare it to L2 combat?  they are in seperate worlds (cue comment about "yeah, L2's is so much better") with totally different paradigms.  

Darkfall is action combat.  thats where majority of MMOs seem to be headed now.

they aren't changing the core combat or PVE of DF.  they just have some tweaks.  where did you hear otherwise?

people were complaining because they were FORCED to skill up (a HUGE amount of skilling up) on PVE when all many of them wanted was to go straight to PVP.   but to compete in PVP (in the past) meant endless grinding in PVE.  nobody likes endless grinding of anything....especially when the game was billed a "PVP game".

i'm talking about the action combat being years ahead.  NOT THE ENTIRE GAME.   2012 saw a lot of DF influence creeping into even mainstream MMOs

 WTF?

When did I say a single frigging thing about combat?  You said DF PvE was 3yrs ahead of every other game. 

And pardon me, I played Wolfstein when it released, doom when it released, Descent when it released. 

I was playing FPS games 20 YEARS AGO. 

DF influence hasn't crept into any game.  There's a difference between action oriented and FPS, and several MMO's released with action oriented combat not FPS.  

Face of mankind released a long time before DF ever did.  World War 2 online has been out far longer then DF has. 

GW2, TSW, TERA, DCUO, ToR.  DF didn't influence a single one of those games. 

I'm really not understanding the fanboy service from someone that's only played DF for 4-5 months off and on over the course of 3 years.  If the game was that good, and you actually beleive what you're writing, why did you play it so little and inconsistantly over the course of the last 3 years?  I've put considerably more time into the game then that over the last 3 years and I'm not making things up about it. 

  corpusc

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/25/03
Posts: 1378

CHATTANOOGAN

contact me if you are seriously interested in
* C#
* making an old schoolish FPS

9/26/12 2:57:07 PM#88
Originally posted by GrayGhost79
Originally posted by corpusc
Originally posted by Stravas
TBH DarkFall as it exists right now has the most interesting mob AI that I've seen . . . creatures actually flee from combat and then counterattack instead of mindlessly fighting to the death against even ridiculous odds as in 99.9% of MMOs.

 

exactly.  

don't listen to the opposite of reality comments of the clueless people.

the ones that think hotbar whackamole while rolling virtual dice, standing still and stuffing their face with thier left hand is what a game should be all about.

 

thats the inherent nature of many comments on mmorpg.com.   people obsessed with the traditional RPG models of  "combat" have no way of judging anything outside of that.

The problem is that is what it was supposed to do, thats not actually how the AI worked which is why the complaint about the AI  exists. It's not the worst AI around, but it's fair from the best lol. 

 

they said PVE would be like fighting quake bots and thats one of the things they succeeded at.

what game do you think does it better?

what other game even HAS quake bot like combat at all?

 

the complaint about AI was from people who wanted a "PVP game" to actually, you know.... be a PVP game.  without being forced to grind up PVE for 6 months.   AAA studios would a been hard pressed to keep up to those kind of grinding demands.

The End
---------------------------
i don't expect to like Darkfall, altho i may like it MORE than other MMOs. i know it is gonna have a very frustrating level of grind to it, even if its significantly less than most. waiting for a pure FAST action virtual world. dice rolling & character levels (even "skills") IN COMBAT should have never carried over from pencil & paper to a computer that can reasonably model 3D spaces and objects

  Angier2758

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/05/09
Posts: 1060

9/26/12 3:01:46 PM#89
Originally posted by corpusc
Originally posted by Angier2758
Originally posted by corpusc
Originally posted by Angier2758
Originally posted by corpusc
Originally posted by Tamanous

I still hope to hear word about mob AI and the pve element to the game. If that is fleshed out along side the pvp system the game will take off. If mobs are nothing more than a grind tool to level in order to do nothing else later but pvp the game will still be a barren wasteland and nothing more than a massive battleground disguised as an mmo.

 

The pve element to an mmo is critical. It's creates a living world and creates cause for war. Mobs should be a resource worth fighting over just like land and harvesting points. It of course interests those who think an mmo is more than just ganking people 24/7. The first Darkfall was just slightly more exciting than pong when fighting npc's.

 

is this opposite day?

DF has the best PVE by far of any MMO i've tried (almost all of them), and its one of its greatest attributes.  and it IS all those things you said it should be.

its all the other MMOs that need to catch up to Darkfall with their PVE mechanics.

and most of them ARE finally moving in that action direction after DF beat them by 3 years.

 

 What  the heck are you smoking?  DF pve was garbage.

 

its garbage if you're a garbage gamer.  

let me guess, you find traditional MMO combat interesting and think it involves skill?

 

 

 Mob AI did nothing... very weak coding.  Wooohoo you can't tab target... so tough when the mob does nothing.  Mobs FLEE? OMG really?! 99% of game don't have that?  Really?!  Are you even playing any other games?  In pretty much every mmorpg mobs flee at low health... that's not an example of great AI... That's bottom rung that everyone has.

Also the whole point of exploring is to find something... not just run over an empty landscape for the sake of it.  "Oh look I found a rock!" - DF explorer

Honestly posts like yours make me happy that DF failed so hard; it was a poor excuse for a game, period.... gamers have spoken. DF was not a sandbox just a giant arena with some shoddy crafting.  I think old versions of AOL have more users than DF.

Good day sir.

 

 

first of all i said nothing about fleeing, and wouldn't make any deal over it.  BUT if you wanna go there, it illustrates how oblivious you are.  

you don't notice the diff tween normal fleeing and action combat fleeing?  (cue clueless comment "wow!  they zigzag, awesome AI there")

 

wow.  i'm impressed at how much you don't notice.

action mechanics at the core fundamentally influence every aspect of the combat.  since these things aren't self evident to you.

 

you had a vast world to explore and all you found was rocks.   or were you rummaging thru your mind?

 

mobs do nothing?  haha

proving yet again that everything you say is complete opposite of reality.

 

 

 

Ohh action fleeing! 

-_- pretty sure DF could ship you a box full of crap and you'd be like "I love action defication!"

Bro you do no service to other players if you're just going to blindly love whatever crap they shove at you just because its "different"... it doesn't make you smarter just makes you look like you lack common sense.

There's a reason why hardly anyone plays DF and it isn't because people are bad players and don't "get" DF. 

It's just a bad game. 

 

 

 
  Uhwop

Elite Member

Joined: 3/20/10
Posts: 1656

9/26/12 3:05:00 PM#90
Originally posted by corpusc
Originally posted by GrayGhost79
Originally posted by corpusc
Originally posted by Stravas
TBH DarkFall as it exists right now has the most interesting mob AI that I've seen . . . creatures actually flee from combat and then counterattack instead of mindlessly fighting to the death against even ridiculous odds as in 99.9% of MMOs.

 

exactly.  

don't listen to the opposite of reality comments of the clueless people.

the ones that think hotbar whackamole while rolling virtual dice, standing still and stuffing their face with thier left hand is what a game should be all about.

 

thats the inherent nature of many comments on mmorpg.com.   people obsessed with the traditional RPG models of  "combat" have no way of judging anything outside of that.

The problem is that is what it was supposed to do, thats not actually how the AI worked which is why the complaint about the AI  exists. It's not the worst AI around, but it's fair from the best lol. 

 

they said PVE would be like fighting quake bots and thats one of the things they succeeded at.

what game do you think does it better?

what other game even HAS quake bot like combat at all?

 

the complaint about AI was from people who wanted a "PVP game" to actually, you know.... be a PVP game.  without being forced to grind up PVE for 6 months.   AAA studios would a been hard pressed to keep up to those kind of grinding demands.

 You obviously weren't there for the rubberbanding, broken mob behavior, bugged mobs, broken loot tables, mob exploiting. invisible mobs, mobs not populating areas the way they were supposed to, mobs not moving the way they were supposed to, and mob towns not appearing and then growing the way they were supposed to. 

 

  Angier2758

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/05/09
Posts: 1060

9/26/12 3:22:44 PM#91

Corpusc -

If you're going to praise a game nonstop saying its an amazing game then saying anyone who didn't like it is just a bad gamer... you're going to come off as a fanboy.

"Oh i didn't play it that much; how can I be a fanboy?!" (verbatim)

Here's a clue: no one believes you.

  Uhwop

Elite Member

Joined: 3/20/10
Posts: 1656

9/26/12 3:30:03 PM#92
[mod edit]
  DSWBeef

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/11/09
Posts: 773

9/26/12 3:31:37 PM#93
Tried this a while ago and was turned off immediately with being gnaked by a pink haird dwarf over and over again. Hopefully their new, New Play Experience is great! Looking forward to trying it!

Playing: Archeage Alpha, World of Warcraft, and Diablo 3
Waiting on: Archeage, Everquest Next and The Black Desert

  nycplayboy78

Novice Member

Joined: 10/31/08
Posts: 137

If you couldn't tell from my avatar picture...I love cats!!!

9/26/12 3:34:18 PM#94
So this is a PVP game only??!! 

  Mors.Magne

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/02/07
Posts: 1428

9/26/12 3:42:42 PM#95
Originally posted by nycplayboy78
So this is a PVP game only??!! 

 There is PvE, but in DF1 the main ones were "kill 200 white skeletons, 20 brown skeletons, and 5 black ones" type.

I'm seriously not joking.

  Flex1

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/29/06
Posts: 413

“Give thanks for a little and you will find a lot.”The Hausa of Nigeria

9/26/12 3:54:17 PM#96

wow this turn into a serious fighting over what I think is a misunderstanding.

 

 


  Bruise187

Novice Member

Joined: 1/17/06
Posts: 357

AC2..Greatest game ever to be closed. They did it dirty.

9/26/12 4:43:42 PM#97
Originally posted by DSWBeef
Tried this a while ago and was turned off immediately with being gnaked by a pink haird dwarf over and over again. Hopefully their new, New Play Experience is great! Looking forward to trying it!

If you couldnt handle being ganked the first time what makes you think you can the second time? Cause you have a lil security time? Most will start to cry when it wears off and they start getting ganked again.

How many delicate flowers have you met in Counterstrike?

I'm not your friend.

I got a case of beer and a chainsaw waiting for me at home after work.

  SelfDestructPro

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/14/08
Posts: 322

9/26/12 4:45:49 PM#98
I'm sorry, but from the screenshots alone it almost seems like I can tell that this is the S.O.S.  And from the questions and answers, I'm asking myself, why couldn't they just have patched the old game?  I'll wait for gameplay videos of course, but I've already got a pit in my stomache about this.
  naljeja

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/21/12
Posts: 96

9/26/12 4:51:05 PM#99
Originally posted by seniorfrito
I'm sorry, but from the screenshots alone it almost seems like I can tell that this is the S.O.S.  And from the questions and answers, I'm asking myself, why couldn't they just have patched the old game?  I'll wait for gameplay videos of course, but I've already got a pit in my stomache about this.

Watch this; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_T8FuVGXEMw&feature=g-all-u

Explains everything

 
  Tamanous

Elite Member

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 1705

9/26/12 4:53:08 PM#100
Originally posted by Flex1

wow this turn into a serious fighting over what I think is a misunderstanding.

 

 

Very true. PvE is much more than just how one mob reacts when you kill it. It is an entire system integrated into every other aspect to the game. DF pve flat out sucked on those terms. The majority of players agree. On their forums they agree, On other forums they agree and is a major reason why so many could not continue playing as the pvp gameplay wasn't enough alone. Making an mmo requires a vast collection of systems and concepts to work together to create a diverse envirement that supports, nurtures and creates immersive properties. An mmo is an attempt at creating virtual reality. Individual reasons why players leave may vary but they almost always have to do with the general concept of immersion. Something has to hold the player within the game. This usually comes from many elements the build a greater sense of enjoyment. Pve has to be one of them. It is a huge element to the game dispite saying it is a pvp game.

 

A similar game to compare is Asheron's Call. Huge open world and on the Darktide server it was free for all pvp with near (based on value tables) full loot. Even so every single Darktide player will recall fond memories of the amazing lore and damn fun pve the game offered along side the pvp they partook in. I challenge any Darkfall player to try to prove the majority of it's playerbase listed pve as a primary source of fun. Frankly it's hard for them to do so when they macro'd most their way through pve anyway.

 
 

You stay sassy!

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