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General Discussion  » ANET has revolutionised MMO development

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  chryses

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/29/07
Posts: 1438

 
OP  9/23/12 7:35:28 PM#1

Love or hate GW2, it’s irrelevant to this thread.

It dawned on me last weekend how smart ANET is.  People can argue if GW2 has revolutionised MMO’s but one thing is for sure is that ANET has revolutionised MMO development.

Other MMO’s have 1000’s of missions.  I remember reading somewhere one particular MMO had over 7000 missions alone.  The development to do this is extraordinary, imagine the following:

  • Number of professional writers
  • Number of NPC’s and animations for mission
  • Number of story arches that need to be taken into account
  • Number of mobs and unique NPC’s that the mission takes you to
  • Number of unique items, scenery, housing/setting for the mission giver and action.
  • Number of reward types and balancing, find tuning and bugs to iron out.

The ‘numbers’ are absolutely astronomical.  The cost and time to do the above is as we all know, years in the making.  Partly describes why so many missions mid/end game are so dry and repetitive.  They run out of time/money and ideas!

                                                                                           *********

Then there is ANET.  They HAVE revolutionised MMO development and I am sure other software houses are mad as hell that they didn’t think of this first.

Putting aside the main character story line/mission, ANET have no missions! They have implemented hearts which means there is only 1 NPC.  Only one point for issues, bugs, mobs etc etc.  It really is genius. 

Yes there are DE’s but what ANET has done is got rid of tens of thousands of hours of development and invested that into DE’s that services a group of players at the same time.  I personally feel the world of GW2 is very polished and it looks like a lot of time has been invested to make normally neglected areas such as under water scenery, quite lush.  DE’s do not need professional writers, thousands of unique NPC’s and bugs are isolated so ANET can fix easily.

Love or hate GW2 or the way it’s been developed.  The future of MMO’s may change forever based on what they have done.   

  KingJiggly

Novice Member

Joined: 8/03/11
Posts: 807

Definition for innovation is below. Your welcome.

9/23/12 7:42:26 PM#2
Originally posted by chryses

Love or hate GW2, it’s irrelevant to this thread.

It dawned on me last weekend how smart ANET is.  People can argue if GW2 has revolutionised MMO’s but one thing is for sure is that ANET has revolutionised MMO development.

Other MMO’s have 1000’s of missions.  I remember reading somewhere one particular MMO had over 7000 missions alone.  The development to do this is extraordinary, imagine the following:

  • Number of professional writers
  • Number of NPC’s and animations for mission
  • Number of story arches that need to be taken into account
  • Number of mobs and unique NPC’s that the mission takes you to
  • Number of unique items, scenery, housing/setting for the mission giver and action.
  • Number of reward types and balancing, find tuning and bugs to iron out.

The ‘numbers’ are absolutely astronomical.  The cost and time to do the above is as we all know, years in the making.  Partly describes why so many missions mid/end game are so dry and repetitive.  They run out of time/money and ideas!

                                                                                           *********

Then there is ANET.  They HAVE revolutionised MMO development and I am sure other software houses are mad as hell that they didn’t think of this first.

Putting aside the main character story line/mission, ANET have no missions! They have implemented hearts which means there is only 1 NPC.  Only one point for issues, bugs, mobs etc etc.  It really is genius. 

Yes there are DE’s but what ANET has done is got rid of tens of thousands of hours of development and invested that into DE’s that services a group of players at the same time.  I personally feel the world of GW2 is very polished and it looks like a lot of time has been invested to make normally neglected areas such as under water scenery, quite lush.  DE’s do not need professional writers, thousands of unique NPC’s and bugs are isolated so ANET can fix easily.

Love or hate GW2 or the way it’s been developed.  The future of MMO’s may change forever based on what they have done.   

Des take about 6 times as long to make compared to normal quests lol. I completely agree with you, just wanted to point that out.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/innovation

  Draemos

Elite Member

Joined: 2/20/10
Posts: 1448

9/23/12 7:47:11 PM#3
Originally posted by chryses

Love or hate GW2, it’s irrelevant to this thread.

It dawned on me last weekend how smart ANET is.  People can argue if GW2 has revolutionised MMO’s but one thing is for sure is that ANET has revolutionised MMO development.

Other MMO’s have 1000’s of missions.  I remember reading somewhere one particular MMO had over 7000 missions alone.  The development to do this is extraordinary, imagine the following:

  • Number of professional writers
  • Number of NPC’s and animations for mission
  • Number of story arches that need to be taken into account
  • Number of mobs and unique NPC’s that the mission takes you to
  • Number of unique items, scenery, housing/setting for the mission giver and action.
  • Number of reward types and balancing, find tuning and bugs to iron out.

The ‘numbers’ are absolutely astronomical.  The cost and time to do the above is as we all know, years in the making.  Partly describes why so many missions mid/end game are so dry and repetitive.  They run out of time/money and ideas!

                                                                                           *********

Then there is ANET.  They HAVE revolutionised MMO development and I am sure other software houses are mad as hell that they didn’t think of this first.

Putting aside the main character story line/mission, ANET have no missions! They have implemented hearts which means there is only 1 NPC.  Only one point for issues, bugs, mobs etc etc.  It really is genius. 

Yes there are DE’s but what ANET has done is got rid of tens of thousands of hours of development and invested that into DE’s that services a group of players at the same time.  I personally feel the world of GW2 is very polished and it looks like a lot of time has been invested to make normally neglected areas such as under water scenery, quite lush.  DE’s do not need professional writers, thousands of unique NPC’s and bugs are isolated so ANET can fix easily.

Love or hate GW2 or the way it’s been developed.  The future of MMO’s may change forever based on what they have done.   

 

I've highlighted why your argument falls apart.  GW2 doesn't have an endgame that's more appreciable than any other MMO endgame... arguably it's (far) worse than many of the top games.  If GW2 model was revolutionary, they'd have more to show for it.  

  rexzshadow

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/02/11
Posts: 1439

9/23/12 7:56:05 PM#4
Originally posted by chryses

Love or hate GW2, it’s irrelevant to this thread.

It dawned on me last weekend how smart ANET is.  People can argue if GW2 has revolutionised MMO’s but one thing is for sure is that ANET has revolutionised MMO development.

Other MMO’s have 1000’s of missions.  I remember reading somewhere one particular MMO had over 7000 missions alone.  The development to do this is extraordinary, imagine the following:

  • Number of professional writers ( So do most other games and the story is still werid. Fyi professional writer write books and movies script, many of them write game as if it were such and that is why lot of game story falls apart. Most game company use professional writes, its how well they ingrate them in that matters)
  • Number of NPC’s and animations for mission ( So is lot of other games idk whats so speical here)
  • Number of story arches that need to be taken into account ( Yes, but than again so did SWTOR)
  • Number of mobs and unique NPC’s that the mission takes you to ( Not really on this part, I honestly wasn't very impressed with it, its nice but also very predictable in a mannar)
  • Number of unique items, scenery, housing/setting for the mission giver and action. (welcome to mmos o.o?)
  • Number of reward types and balancing, find tuning and bugs to iron out. ( So does every other game that want to successed)

The ‘numbers’ are absolutely astronomical.  The cost and time to do the above is as we all know, years in the making.  Partly describes why so many missions mid/end game are so dry and repetitive.  They run out of time/money and ideas! (There is no end game)

                                                                                           *********

Then there is ANET.  They HAVE revolutionised MMO development and I am sure other software houses are mad as hell that they didn’t think of this first.

Putting aside the main character story line/mission, ANET have no missions! They have implemented hearts which means there is only 1 NPC.  Only one point for issues, bugs, mobs etc etc.  It really is genius. ( which is a fusion of every single generic quest type in to one, so instead of doing 5 quest they fused it all to one and feel grindy as fck)

Yes there are DE’s but what ANET has done is got rid of tens of thousands of hours of development and invested that into DE’s that services a group of players at the same time.  I personally feel the world of GW2 is very polished and it looks like a lot of time has been invested to make normally neglected areas such as under water scenery, quite lush.  DE’s do not need professional writers, thousands of unique NPC’s and bugs are isolated so ANET can fix easily. ( What o.o.....)

Love or hate GW2 or the way it’s been developed.  The future of MMO’s may change forever based on what they have done.   

No it won't

  GeezerGamer

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 4096

Remember the blisters you'd get in the palm of your hand from the corner of that joystick?

9/23/12 8:14:13 PM#5

From a technological and development standpoint, Trion is far ahead of ANET. Yes, DEs are very complex and required a tremendous amount of resourses to develop. Problem is, No bang for the buck. R.O.I. is too small. There is nothing particularly special about the DE experience. It's OK, but it's not so much better than traditional questing. Not only that, but because they are so intensive, the "Cut N Paste" feel of the coding permeates the whole game. To be honest, DE's didn't feel any more engaging that Rifts did. And I usually pass by those unless there is a reason not to. Beyond that, Rift's Zone Invasions Blow away any DE I have done in GW2. In terms of fun factor, they are just better.


Hearts? Come on. Go into WoW, find a little quest village and move them to where the actual quest takes place, Now have the quest auto populate into the quest log and there you go....Hearts. Or at least you get the same effect. If you want a truly hub-less quest system, once again, You have to look to Rift. Instant Adventures are more accurately hub-less than Hearts. Not to say they are without their very obvious and appearant limitations due to being such a new development in MMOs. But as a system to be improved upon and modeled in the future, IAs are superior to hearts.

Sorry, Not to say Rift is a perfect game, I'd be happy to list my (long list of) issues. But still.......

Recently started playing SWTOR. I am posting updates to my experience in this thread:
SWTOR Experience

  Atlan99

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/07/08
Posts: 1355

9/23/12 8:18:46 PM#6

I see  a few problems with your argument.

1)DE's aren't a revolution by Arenanet. They had already been done in several mmo's prior.

2)If GW2 had more content because it was easier to make content for, I wouldn't have finished all that content within 2 weeks.

  zellmer

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/30/09
Posts: 405

9/23/12 8:20:22 PM#7

Make this thread in another month or two when EVERYONE is sick of GW2, not just half of their playerbase..

 

 

  Nitre

Novice Member

Joined: 9/22/12
Posts: 44

9/23/12 8:21:31 PM#8

im already sick of it tbh. i cant even get enough motivation to login.

 

here i come again azeroth..

  Nadia

Elite Member

Joined: 7/26/03
Posts: 10803

9/23/12 8:29:07 PM#9
Originally posted by GeezerGamer

Instant Adventures are technically more accurately hub-less than Hearts. Not to say they are without their very obvious and appearant limitations due to being such a new development in MMOs. But as a system to be improved upon and modeled in the future, IAs are superior to hearts.

ive never done IA but i did read about - and as a concept, i agree w you

  chryses

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/29/07
Posts: 1438

 
OP  9/23/12 8:39:47 PM#10

[mod edit]

I am breaking this completely down from a resource perspective and how the they have invested their time and money.  I personally don't care what you think of the game.

For the record, I am a Change Project Manager and my entire role is trying to remove process and utilise resource more effectively.  When I look at what ANET has done, I think it is a big shift in MMO development.

I realise DE's take up more time etc. But from a pure development perspective, ANET have dodged a huge time and resource black hole and avoided the need to write 1000's of missions and all of the addons. 

 

  GeezerGamer

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 4096

Remember the blisters you'd get in the palm of your hand from the corner of that joystick?

9/23/12 8:41:52 PM#11


Originally posted by Nadia

Originally posted by GeezerGamer Instant Adventures are technically more accurately hub-less than Hearts. Not to say they are without their very obvious and appearant limitations due to being such a new development in MMOs. But as a system to be improved upon and modeled in the future, IAs are superior to hearts.
ive never done IA but i did read about - and as a concept, i agree w you

The implementation isn't bad, but it needs work. But it was also added as an afterthought and is very limited in scope right now, However, I can see future games or expansions adopting this system and improving on it. It's got a lot of potential. Basically the biggest limitation with IAs as they are is the looping. Stay in the raid group long enough and you are repeating the cycle.

Just being fair.

Recently started playing SWTOR. I am posting updates to my experience in this thread:
SWTOR Experience

  GeezerGamer

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 4096

Remember the blisters you'd get in the palm of your hand from the corner of that joystick?

9/23/12 8:48:37 PM#12

 


Originally posted by chryses
[mod edit]

 

I am breaking this completely down from a resource perspective and how the they have invested their time and money.  I personally don't care what you think of the game.

For the record, I am a Change Project Manager and my entire role is trying to remove process and utilise resource more effectively.  When I look at what ANET has done, I think it is a big shift in MMO development.

I realise DE's take up more time etc. But from a pure development perspective, ANET have dodged a huge time and resource black hole and avoided the need to write 1000's of missions and all of the addons. 

 


 

I'm sorry, I don't see how ANET did anything better. From a dev standpoint, How many DEs are reused in the game? I also have news for you. Rifts are no longer entirely what they used to be. There are new ones. And you cant just go into them and kill everything as fast as you can. They are starting to require elements of strategy such as objects requiring interaction and mobs being required to be moved, kited or pulled to certain locations before you can kill them. And obviously, kill orders. No, it's nothing spectacular, but they are eveolving past what people remember.

 

Recently started playing SWTOR. I am posting updates to my experience in this thread:
SWTOR Experience

  fyerwall

Elite Member

Joined: 6/01/04
Posts: 3113

9/23/12 8:52:08 PM#13
What did they revolutionize? They have missions - hearts are still quest hubs, regardless of the fact they auto-populate in your log when you approach them. As for the professional writers comment, the story is blandly generic and most of the dialogue is just plain bad. Voice acting is horrific at times while the rest of it feels apathetic in delivery - like they forced office staff to read it. DEs feel the same as they did in Rift, so I don't see much revolution there.

There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"


  ElSandman

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/28/12
Posts: 94

9/23/12 9:13:13 PM#14
Originally posted by chryses

....

I realise DE's take up more time etc. .... 

 

And therein lies the flaw in your argument.  Anet themselves have admitted that creating DEs take roughly 3x as long as traditional quest giver type content.

 

And the shame of it is, at the end of the day, the gloss of the psuedo grouping in dynamic events wears off quickly, and I would rather regain the better story telling that can be provided by quest givers!

 

  Draemos

Elite Member

Joined: 2/20/10
Posts: 1448

9/24/12 12:04:30 AM#15
Originally posted by chryses

[mod edit]

I am breaking this completely down from a resource perspective and how the they have invested their time and money.  I personally don't care what you think of the game.

For the record, I am a Change Project Manager and my entire role is trying to remove process and utilise resource more effectively.  When I look at what ANET has done, I think it is a big shift in MMO development.

I realise DE's take up more time etc. But from a pure development perspective, ANET have dodged a huge time and resource black hole and avoided the need to write 1000's of missions and all of the addons. 

 

Oh, you're a project manager.  That explains your interest in mundane and useless time management nonsense.

  Siug

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/02/12
Posts: 916

9/24/12 12:11:52 AM#16
So far I haven't seen anything in GW2 that even remotedly resembles revolution. Rolled a new toon and feel exhausted because I just cannot do those bland copy paste zones and tedious DE's yet again. So I stopped playing. Must be playing GW2 wrong (tm) 
  Nitre

Novice Member

Joined: 9/22/12
Posts: 44

9/24/12 12:34:30 AM#17
Originally posted by Piiritus
So far I haven't seen anything in GW2 that even remotedly resembles revolution. Rolled a new toon and feel exhausted because I just cannot do those bland copy paste zones and tedious DE's yet again. So I stopped playing. Must be playing GW2 wrong (tm) 

 

congrats to your GW2 burnout syndrome. it hit me a week ago. didnrt login since..just cant be bothered.
  Loke666

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/29/07
Posts: 16024

9/24/12 12:46:50 AM#18
Originally posted by rexzshadow
Originally posted by chryses
  • Number of professional writers ( So do most other games and the story is still werid. Fyi professional writer write books and movies script, many of them write game as if it were such and that is why lot of game story falls apart. Most game company use professional writes, its how well they ingrate them in that matters)

Really? Jeff Grubb actually sold a lot of books ("Curse of the azure bonds" is a classic and he did create the classic RPG setting Forgotten realms with Ed Greenwood). R-A Salvatore is of course even bigger but Copernicus got cancelled.

So which "real" authors do work on MMOs right now? Someone who written stuff besides ratkilling quests I mean.

  RizelStar

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/12/11
Posts: 2818

We all breathe and we all die.

9/24/12 12:57:48 AM#19
Originally posted by ElSandman
Originally posted by chryses

....

I realise DE's take up more time etc. .... 

 

And therein lies the flaw in your argument.  Anet themselves have admitted that creating DEs take roughly 3x as long as traditional quest giver type content.

 

And the shame of it is, at the end of the day, the gloss of the psuedo grouping in dynamic events wears off quickly, and I would rather regain the better story telling that can be provided by quest givers!

 

Please play SWTOR then or TSW. That's what I'd do atleast.

I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.

I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.

P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)

Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.

  Djildjamesh

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/09/11
Posts: 395

9/24/12 1:05:10 AM#20
Originally posted by Nitre
Originally posted by Piiritus
So far I haven't seen anything in GW2 that even remotedly resembles revolution. Rolled a new toon and feel exhausted because I just cannot do those bland copy paste zones and tedious DE's yet again. So I stopped playing. Must be playing GW2 wrong (tm) 

 

congrats to your GW2 burnout syndrome. it hit me a week ago. didnrt login since..just cant be bothered.

goodluck finding an MMO wich WILL  last you haha.

You people are like MMO-zombies ... EVERLASTING HUNGER TO DEVOUR CONTENT WAAAAAARAAARGH LOL.

 

You people will never be pleased, with ANYTHING

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