Originally posted by gelraen

Originally posted by maskedweasel

 

Having played many of the dungeons now, and most in Explorable mode, I have to disagree.

My first impressions were also much like yours, I thought they were frustrating and I was close to giving up on them.  Then I had a few nice runs with Pugs of all things, where peple seemed to have improved their builds (more toughness, vit) and weren't running around like headless chickens all the time, and I started to have this "Oooooh!" feeling, where it all started to make more sense.

Since then I've had many great explorable runs and I quite enjoy them.  I guess the problem is a lot of people are coming from WoW, or Rift, or Swtor (I played all those games, btw, raiding and doing dungeons) where dungeons have become such an easy, watered down experience, that actual hard content is a major shock.  That combined with a pretty new way of thinking, with regards to being your own tank/healer, I can completely understand people's reaction.

Still I sincerely believe they are quite fun, and people should stick with them.  I had the most fun in Twilight Arb. last night than I've had in a dungeon for years.

A couple of points -- it IS true that you need make use of a lot of your utility skills.  I was always swapping my extra skills around during the dungeons and it helps a lot.   Also as others have said, combo fields are you friends... including laying down combo fields in the place where you can see your party can benefit the most by them.  

You don't need to tell me how to run a dungeon,  I'll gladly run any dungeon with you and see how you fair.. and that honestly goes for everyone here,  I've been in groups with 80s in full exotics, and I've been in groups with random PUGs that just leveled up and its their first time running it.    I've brought people through their first explorable missions in AC and CM while leveling up time and time again...

But my point stands...  running any dungeon NOW.... PRIOR to 80 just doesn't make sense.  Twilight Arbor... I'd like to run that dungeon with anyone here who says dungeons aren't frustrating... and do the forward path -- no actually it doesn't matter,  any path on TA would pretty much do it.

The only thing I will say about being prepared and beating a dungeon... more important than anything you'll hear otherwise...  you have to know what to expect... after you run these dungeons a couple times each,  you'll know which weapons work best on which parts,  what to do,  and how fast you should or should not do it.  Coordination in the objectives is way more important then a combo field.    

Originally posted by botrytis

Originally posted by maskedweasel

 

THere is no balance issue. In GW1, any build was not UBER as there was always another build to counter and beat it. Every build has it's strengths and weaknesses - that is the key to GW1 and GW2. Knowing what they are to the particular build you are using is an important aspect of this game and one you are not seeing. Warriors and Guardians are susceptible to blind skills, as an example.

 

Unlike RIft, which all Rogues for example, are squishy and have to play the same way, in GW2 each build you use requires a different style of playing. It is more of a finesse game, rather than a brute force game.

I think you heard the term balancing issue, and thought I was talking about class and abilities..... I was talking specifically about dungeon balancing.  Build balance.. theres nothing you can do about that...  Build balance in DUNGEONS does matter though.. for example.. on some dungeons if you don't have enough DPS, theres no reason to try and run it... thats just the way it is.

---

Originally posted by Khebeln
I have 600+ Hours played on one character, and 3/4 of that time i spent in dungeons grinding several sets of armors.

One thing to say, it is the WORST system ever for dungeons. Only things saving it is that its dynamic and action oriented, but then again Tera did far better in that department.

In the end best setup is for everyone to run Toughnes/Vitality/Power Build as Semi tank only or you cant do anything but the easiest most grinded main paths. And even then it can get extremly or near imposible for certian classes like elementalist do do some paths w/o dieing (cod path where you have to split, 1 person at 1 torch far away from each other with tons of mobs respawning near torch every 15-25s and all of them semi elite) And thats just the entrance to that path.

I agree some encounters where fun, but only with everyone in best posible pve gear/triat setup (and the lack of switching builds is NOT helping, you can either only do PVE or PVE you cant do both)

There is only hope they will do something with that mess as after the recent dungeon changes A LOT of ppl stoped doing dungeons or logging in gw2 (pve only) as dungeons where the only reason to grind gear.

Some have hope that things will improve, i can only say im waiting for the official statement about the plans for the next 6 months that is usualy realeased after first month.

---

Originally posted by maskedweasel

Originally posted by gelraen

Originally posted by maskedweasel

 

Having played many of the dungeons now, and most in Explorable mode, I have to disagree.

My first impressions were also much like yours, I thought they were frustrating and I was close to giving up on them.  Then I had a few nice runs with Pugs of all things, where peple seemed to have improved their builds (more toughness, vit) and weren't running around like headless chickens all the time, and I started to have this "Oooooh!" feeling, where it all started to make more sense.

Since then I've had many great explorable runs and I quite enjoy them.  I guess the problem is a lot of people are coming from WoW, or Rift, or Swtor (I played all those games, btw, raiding and doing dungeons) where dungeons have become such an easy, watered down experience, that actual hard content is a major shock.  That combined with a pretty new way of thinking, with regards to being your own tank/healer, I can completely understand people's reaction.

Still I sincerely believe they are quite fun, and people should stick with them.  I had the most fun in Twilight Arb. last night than I've had in a dungeon for years.

A couple of points -- it IS true that you need make use of a lot of your utility skills.  I was always swapping my extra skills around during the dungeons and it helps a lot.   Also as others have said, combo fields are you friends... including laying down combo fields in the place where you can see your party can benefit the most by them.  

You don't need to tell me how to run a dungeon,  I'll gladly run any dungeon with you and see how you fair.. and that honestly goes for everyone here,  I've been in groups with 80s in full exotics, and I've been in groups with random PUGs that just leveled up and its their first time running it.    I've brought people through their first explorable missions in AC and CM while leveling up time and time again...

But my point stands...  running any dungeon NOW.... PRIOR to 80 just doesn't make sense.  Twilight Arbor... I'd like to run that dungeon with anyone here who says dungeons aren't frustrating... and do the forward path -- no actually it doesn't matter,  any path on TA would pretty much do it.

 

The only thing I will say about being prepared and beating a dungeon... more important than anything you'll hear otherwise...  you have to know what to expect... after you run these dungeons a couple times each,  you'll know which weapons work best on which parts,  what to do,  and how fast you should or should not do it.  Coordination in the objectives is way more important then a combo field.    

I'm not trying to tell you how to run a dungeon, or to be condescending in any way.

I guess my experience differs from yours, and I would say it's just fine to run them prior to 80.  My alt (which I'm focusing on) is level 51, and I found TA to be just fine and quite enjoyable.  I run a couple of explorables each day... not too many, just enough to give some variation to the other parts of the game I'm playing.

I agree, learning the dungeon is the hardest part, and after that you know what to expect, what skills to swap to before a fight, etc.   My second run of TA was a lot easier than the first :)    Experience and coordination, both as a team and individually, as you say, is the most important part.  

Originally posted by maskedweasel

Originally posted by gelraen

Originally posted by maskedweasel

 

Having played many of the dungeons now, and most in Explorable mode, I have to disagree.

My first impressions were also much like yours, I thought they were frustrating and I was close to giving up on them.  Then I had a few nice runs with Pugs of all things, where peple seemed to have improved their builds (more toughness, vit) and weren't running around like headless chickens all the time, and I started to have this "Oooooh!" feeling, where it all started to make more sense.

Since then I've had many great explorable runs and I quite enjoy them.  I guess the problem is a lot of people are coming from WoW, or Rift, or Swtor (I played all those games, btw, raiding and doing dungeons) where dungeons have become such an easy, watered down experience, that actual hard content is a major shock.  That combined with a pretty new way of thinking, with regards to being your own tank/healer, I can completely understand people's reaction.

Still I sincerely believe they are quite fun, and people should stick with them.  I had the most fun in Twilight Arb. last night than I've had in a dungeon for years.

A couple of points -- it IS true that you need make use of a lot of your utility skills.  I was always swapping my extra skills around during the dungeons and it helps a lot.   Also as others have said, combo fields are you friends... including laying down combo fields in the place where you can see your party can benefit the most by them.  

You don't need to tell me how to run a dungeon,  I'll gladly run any dungeon with you and see how you fair.. and that honestly goes for everyone here,  I've been in groups with 80s in full exotics, and I've been in groups with random PUGs that just leveled up and its their first time running it.    I've brought people through their first explorable missions in AC and CM while leveling up time and time again...

But my point stands...  running any dungeon NOW.... PRIOR to 80 just doesn't make sense.  Twilight Arbor... I'd like to run that dungeon with anyone here who says dungeons aren't frustrating... and do the forward path -- no actually it doesn't matter,  any path on TA would pretty much do it.

 

The only thing I will say about being prepared and beating a dungeon... more important than anything you'll hear otherwise...  you have to know what to expect... after you run these dungeons a couple times each,  you'll know which weapons work best on which parts,  what to do,  and how fast you should or should not do it.  Coordination in the objectives is way more important then a combo field.    

Apparently you do need advice, I've been running them since 35 with ease most of the time. Occasionally I get a bad group like the experience you described but I will apologise and leave lol. If a group doesn't know what to do and can't listen, not worth my time. 

Your points don't stand, if you listened and took the advice others are giving you the dungeons are fairly easy. If you refuse, which is your choice, you will continue to have the experiences you've been having. 

If you were correct then we'd all be having the same or worse experiences in the dungeons on a regular basis. If you are wrong, there would be people that seem to do just fine and they would attempt to offer you some advice... 

Originally posted by maskedweasel

Originally posted by gelraen

Originally posted by maskedweasel

 

Having played many of the dungeons now, and most in Explorable mode, I have to disagree.

My first impressions were also much like yours, I thought they were frustrating and I was close to giving up on them.  Then I had a few nice runs with Pugs of all things, where peple seemed to have improved their builds (more toughness, vit) and weren't running around like headless chickens all the time, and I started to have this "Oooooh!" feeling, where it all started to make more sense.

Since then I've had many great explorable runs and I quite enjoy them.  I guess the problem is a lot of people are coming from WoW, or Rift, or Swtor (I played all those games, btw, raiding and doing dungeons) where dungeons have become such an easy, watered down experience, that actual hard content is a major shock.  That combined with a pretty new way of thinking, with regards to being your own tank/healer, I can completely understand people's reaction.

Still I sincerely believe they are quite fun, and people should stick with them.  I had the most fun in Twilight Arb. last night than I've had in a dungeon for years.

A couple of points -- it IS true that you need make use of a lot of your utility skills.  I was always swapping my extra skills around during the dungeons and it helps a lot.   Also as others have said, combo fields are you friends... including laying down combo fields in the place where you can see your party can benefit the most by them.  

You don't need to tell me how to run a dungeon,  I'll gladly run any dungeon with you and see how you fair.. and that honestly goes for everyone here,  I've been in groups with 80s in full exotics, and I've been in groups with random PUGs that just leveled up and its their first time running it.    I've brought people through their first explorable missions in AC and CM while leveling up time and time again...

But my point stands...  running any dungeon NOW.... PRIOR to 80 just doesn't make sense.  Twilight Arbor... I'd like to run that dungeon with anyone here who says dungeons aren't frustrating... and do the forward path -- no actually it doesn't matter,  any path on TA would pretty much do it.

 

The only thing I will say about being prepared and beating a dungeon... more important than anything you'll hear otherwise...  you have to know what to expect... after you run these dungeons a couple times each,  you'll know which weapons work best on which parts,  what to do,  and how fast you should or should not do it.  Coordination in the objectives is way more important then a combo field.    

A ele, (me lvl 63 with lvl 55 gear)= mesmer and a theif.

Did Ta explorable the upward path.

We beat it in about 30 min, with no deaths and only a couple downs.

Beat cm witha  team of 3 as well. when I was lvl 43 beat the story.

I never had any trouble with the dgns, other then when I first did AC. But second run and onwards was easy. Then AC explorable the ghost eater. Was hard the first time.

After that it been way to easy if anything, I would like them to make it harder in multy ways.

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

Originally posted by maskedweasel

Originally posted by gelraen

Originally posted by maskedweasel

 

Having played many of the dungeons now, and most in Explorable mode, I have to disagree.

My first impressions were also much like yours, I thought they were frustrating and I was close to giving up on them.  Then I had a few nice runs with Pugs of all things, where peple seemed to have improved their builds (more toughness, vit) and weren't running around like headless chickens all the time, and I started to have this "Oooooh!" feeling, where it all started to make more sense.

Since then I've had many great explorable runs and I quite enjoy them.  I guess the problem is a lot of people are coming from WoW, or Rift, or Swtor (I played all those games, btw, raiding and doing dungeons) where dungeons have become such an easy, watered down experience, that actual hard content is a major shock.  That combined with a pretty new way of thinking, with regards to being your own tank/healer, I can completely understand people's reaction.

Still I sincerely believe they are quite fun, and people should stick with them.  I had the most fun in Twilight Arb. last night than I've had in a dungeon for years.

A couple of points -- it IS true that you need make use of a lot of your utility skills.  I was always swapping my extra skills around during the dungeons and it helps a lot.   Also as others have said, combo fields are you friends... including laying down combo fields in the place where you can see your party can benefit the most by them.  

You don't need to tell me how to run a dungeon,  I'll gladly run any dungeon with you and see how you fair.. and that honestly goes for everyone here,  I've been in groups with 80s in full exotics, and I've been in groups with random PUGs that just leveled up and its their first time running it.    I've brought people through their first explorable missions in AC and CM while leveling up time and time again...

But my point stands...  running any dungeon NOW.... PRIOR to 80 just doesn't make sense.  Twilight Arbor... I'd like to run that dungeon with anyone here who says dungeons aren't frustrating... and do the forward path -- no actually it doesn't matter,  any path on TA would pretty much do it.

 

The only thing I will say about being prepared and beating a dungeon... more important than anything you'll hear otherwise...  you have to know what to expect... after you run these dungeons a couple times each,  you'll know which weapons work best on which parts,  what to do,  and how fast you should or should not do it.  Coordination in the objectives is way more important then a combo field.    

Apparently you do need advice, I've been running them since 35 with ease most of the time. Occasionally I get a bad group like the experience you described but I will apologise and leave lol. If a group doesn't know what to do and can't listen, not worth my time. 

Your points don't stand, if you listened and took the advice others are giving you the dungeons are fairly easy. If you refuse, which is your choice, you will continue to have the experiences you've been having. 

 

If you were correct then we'd all be having the same or worse experiences in the dungeons on a regular basis. If you are wrong, there would be people that seem to do just fine and they would attempt to offer you some advice... 

Well to be fair, PUG experiences are pretty random (and that goes for most games), so he may just have had bad luck grouping.  

I do disagree though, I find AC and TA explorables pretty easy now.  CM I think is pretty hardcore, but maybe I just have had that random back PUG luck that I'm talking about up there, lol.

Originally posted by gelraen

Originally posted by maskedweasel

Originally posted by gelraen

Originally posted by maskedweasel

 

Having played many of the dungeons now, and most in Explorable mode, I have to disagree.

My first impressions were also much like yours, I thought they were frustrating and I was close to giving up on them.  Then I had a few nice runs with Pugs of all things, where peple seemed to have improved their builds (more toughness, vit) and weren't running around like headless chickens all the time, and I started to have this "Oooooh!" feeling, where it all started to make more sense.

Since then I've had many great explorable runs and I quite enjoy them.  I guess the problem is a lot of people are coming from WoW, or Rift, or Swtor (I played all those games, btw, raiding and doing dungeons) where dungeons have become such an easy, watered down experience, that actual hard content is a major shock.  That combined with a pretty new way of thinking, with regards to being your own tank/healer, I can completely understand people's reaction.

Still I sincerely believe they are quite fun, and people should stick with them.  I had the most fun in Twilight Arb. last night than I've had in a dungeon for years.

A couple of points -- it IS true that you need make use of a lot of your utility skills.  I was always swapping my extra skills around during the dungeons and it helps a lot.   Also as others have said, combo fields are you friends... including laying down combo fields in the place where you can see your party can benefit the most by them.  

You don't need to tell me how to run a dungeon,  I'll gladly run any dungeon with you and see how you fair.. and that honestly goes for everyone here,  I've been in groups with 80s in full exotics, and I've been in groups with random PUGs that just leveled up and its their first time running it.    I've brought people through their first explorable missions in AC and CM while leveling up time and time again...

But my point stands...  running any dungeon NOW.... PRIOR to 80 just doesn't make sense.  Twilight Arbor... I'd like to run that dungeon with anyone here who says dungeons aren't frustrating... and do the forward path -- no actually it doesn't matter,  any path on TA would pretty much do it.

 

The only thing I will say about being prepared and beating a dungeon... more important than anything you'll hear otherwise...  you have to know what to expect... after you run these dungeons a couple times each,  you'll know which weapons work best on which parts,  what to do,  and how fast you should or should not do it.  Coordination in the objectives is way more important then a combo field.    

I'm not trying to tell you how to run a dungeon, or to be condescending in any way.

I guess my experience differs from yours, and I would say it's just fine to run them prior to 80.  My alt (which I'm focusing on) is level 51, and I found TA to be just fine and quite enjoyable.  I run a couple of explorables each day... not too many, just enough to give some variation to the other parts of the game I'm playing.

I agree, learning the dungeon is the hardest part, and after that you know what to expect, what skills to swap to before a fight, etc.   My second run of TA was a lot easier than the first :)    Experience and coordination, both as a team and individually, as you say, is the most important part.  

He's talking about TA Explo, which does have some annoying volatile blooms all over the place that spawn on a very short timer. Those are very annoying and tedious imo also.

I have to agree against this games dungeon system. I love guild wars 2 and will be certainly playing it for months to come, but the dungeons are attrocious. I don't remember to play a game in which a dungeon was so "not fun"...

Not only I think that the difficulty is exagerated in some cases (although there are some I find easy), but the gameplay is just stupid... bosses have no real strategy, just tank and spank and kill adds, but it's a total corpse run all the time. One time we are running around ressing dead ppl, or those dead ppl are rssing on the waypoint and running back to the fight like headless turkeys... not to mention the several exploits and run arounds avoiding mobs people seem to love these days!

I hope they change something really, and fast, because without fun dungeons the game loses a big appeal to a great number of players

Originally posted by gelraen

 

I'm not trying to tell you how to run a dungeon, or to be condescending in any way.

I guess my experience differs from yours, and I would say it's just fine to run them prior to 80.  My alt (which I'm focusing on) is level 51, and I found TA to be just fine and quite enjoyable.  

I agree, learning the dungeon is the hardest part, and after that you know what to expect, what skills to swap to before a fight, etc.   My second run of TA was a lot easier than the first :)    Experience and coordination, both as a team and individually, as you say, is the most important part.  

I didn't mean to make it sound like I was offended,  point I was making is,  as far as dungeons in this game go, I've run them, and I can understand the way the OP feels.  I've seen geargrinded 80s leave dungeons in frustration, and I hate being on the losing side when people decide they can't finish a dungeon.  I can count on one hand how many times I've had to leave a dungeon unfinished -- luckily -- but I don't know how many times I've also been in groups and asked "Who has completed this dungeon before"  and heard "We got to *X* part and then my team quit".   

Everything is possible... clearly as I've done it, but some areas are extremely frustrating for no reason.. not geared towards skill but luck - like TA.  Volatile Blossoms will come back extremely quickly and burst on a moments notice.  As for doing Dungeons prior to 80... do the story dungeons.. explorable dungeons...  not really worth grinding tokens early on, especially as you don't get that great of rewards anymore.

Originally posted by AvatarBlade

Originally posted by gelraen

Originally posted by maskedweasel

Originally posted by gelraen

Originally posted by maskedweasel

 

Having played many of the dungeons now, and most in Explorable mode, I have to disagree.

My first impressions were also much like yours, I thought they were frustrating and I was close to giving up on them.  Then I had a few nice runs with Pugs of all things, where peple seemed to have improved their builds (more toughness, vit) and weren't running around like headless chickens all the time, and I started to have this "Oooooh!" feeling, where it all started to make more sense.

Since then I've had many great explorable runs and I quite enjoy them.  I guess the problem is a lot of people are coming from WoW, or Rift, or Swtor (I played all those games, btw, raiding and doing dungeons) where dungeons have become such an easy, watered down experience, that actual hard content is a major shock.  That combined with a pretty new way of thinking, with regards to being your own tank/healer, I can completely understand people's reaction.

Still I sincerely believe they are quite fun, and people should stick with them.  I had the most fun in Twilight Arb. last night than I've had in a dungeon for years.

A couple of points -- it IS true that you need make use of a lot of your utility skills.  I was always swapping my extra skills around during the dungeons and it helps a lot.   Also as others have said, combo fields are you friends... including laying down combo fields in the place where you can see your party can benefit the most by them.  

You don't need to tell me how to run a dungeon,  I'll gladly run any dungeon with you and see how you fair.. and that honestly goes for everyone here,  I've been in groups with 80s in full exotics, and I've been in groups with random PUGs that just leveled up and its their first time running it.    I've brought people through their first explorable missions in AC and CM while leveling up time and time again...

But my point stands...  running any dungeon NOW.... PRIOR to 80 just doesn't make sense.  Twilight Arbor... I'd like to run that dungeon with anyone here who says dungeons aren't frustrating... and do the forward path -- no actually it doesn't matter,  any path on TA would pretty much do it.

 

The only thing I will say about being prepared and beating a dungeon... more important than anything you'll hear otherwise...  you have to know what to expect... after you run these dungeons a couple times each,  you'll know which weapons work best on which parts,  what to do,  and how fast you should or should not do it.  Coordination in the objectives is way more important then a combo field.    

I'm not trying to tell you how to run a dungeon, or to be condescending in any way.

I guess my experience differs from yours, and I would say it's just fine to run them prior to 80.  My alt (which I'm focusing on) is level 51, and I found TA to be just fine and quite enjoyable.  I run a couple of explorables each day... not too many, just enough to give some variation to the other parts of the game I'm playing.

I agree, learning the dungeon is the hardest part, and after that you know what to expect, what skills to swap to before a fight, etc.   My second run of TA was a lot easier than the first :)    Experience and coordination, both as a team and individually, as you say, is the most important part.  

He's talking about TA Explo, which does have some annoying volatile blooms all over the place that spawn on a very short timer. Those are very annoying and tedious imo also.

He tried to say CM Story mode was to difficult as well... lol

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

Originally posted by maskedweasel

Originally posted by gelraen

Originally posted by maskedweasel

 

Having played many of the dungeons now, and most in Explorable mode, I have to disagree.

My first impressions were also much like yours, I thought they were frustrating and I was close to giving up on them.  Then I had a few nice runs with Pugs of all things, where peple seemed to have improved their builds (more toughness, vit) and weren't running around like headless chickens all the time, and I started to have this "Oooooh!" feeling, where it all started to make more sense.

Since then I've had many great explorable runs and I quite enjoy them.  I guess the problem is a lot of people are coming from WoW, or Rift, or Swtor (I played all those games, btw, raiding and doing dungeons) where dungeons have become such an easy, watered down experience, that actual hard content is a major shock.  That combined with a pretty new way of thinking, with regards to being your own tank/healer, I can completely understand people's reaction.

Still I sincerely believe they are quite fun, and people should stick with them.  I had the most fun in Twilight Arb. last night than I've had in a dungeon for years.

A couple of points -- it IS true that you need make use of a lot of your utility skills.  I was always swapping my extra skills around during the dungeons and it helps a lot.   Also as others have said, combo fields are you friends... including laying down combo fields in the place where you can see your party can benefit the most by them.  

You don't need to tell me how to run a dungeon,  I'll gladly run any dungeon with you and see how you fair.. and that honestly goes for everyone here,  I've been in groups with 80s in full exotics, and I've been in groups with random PUGs that just leveled up and its their first time running it.    I've brought people through their first explorable missions in AC and CM while leveling up time and time again...

But my point stands...  running any dungeon NOW.... PRIOR to 80 just doesn't make sense.  Twilight Arbor... I'd like to run that dungeon with anyone here who says dungeons aren't frustrating... and do the forward path -- no actually it doesn't matter,  any path on TA would pretty much do it.

 

The only thing I will say about being prepared and beating a dungeon... more important than anything you'll hear otherwise...  you have to know what to expect... after you run these dungeons a couple times each,  you'll know which weapons work best on which parts,  what to do,  and how fast you should or should not do it.  Coordination in the objectives is way more important then a combo field.    

Apparently you do need advice, I've been running them since 35 with ease most of the time. Occasionally I get a bad group like the experience you described but I will apologise and leave lol. If a group doesn't know what to do and can't listen, not worth my time. 

Your points don't stand, if you listened and took the advice others are giving you the dungeons are fairly easy. If you refuse, which is your choice, you will continue to have the experiences you've been having. 

 

If you were correct then we'd all be having the same or worse experiences in the dungeons on a regular basis. If you are wrong, there would be people that seem to do just fine and they would attempt to offer you some advice... 

So lets go run a dungeon then... your choice.  I don't want to sit here talking about this nonsense when I can easily just group with you and run any of the dungeons.  Just tell me which one and when.

Not to mention you contradicting yourself,  you say how easy they are.. then  you say you drop from groups?  Not the way I play either.  If I start with a group I finish with one unless they give up.  And sorry but advice like "just use combo fields"  isn't the magic bullet some people here think it is.  

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

Originally posted by AvatarBlade

Originally posted by gelraen

Originally posted by maskedweasel

Originally posted by gelraen

Originally posted by maskedweasel

 

Having played many of the dungeons now, and most in Explorable mode, I have to disagree.

My first impressions were also much like yours, I thought they were frustrating and I was close to giving up on them.  Then I had a few nice runs with Pugs of all things, where peple seemed to have improved their builds (more toughness, vit) and weren't running around like headless chickens all the time, and I started to have this "Oooooh!" feeling, where it all started to make more sense.

Since then I've had many great explorable runs and I quite enjoy them.  I guess the problem is a lot of people are coming from WoW, or Rift, or Swtor (I played all those games, btw, raiding and doing dungeons) where dungeons have become such an easy, watered down experience, that actual hard content is a major shock.  That combined with a pretty new way of thinking, with regards to being your own tank/healer, I can completely understand people's reaction.

Still I sincerely believe they are quite fun, and people should stick with them.  I had the most fun in Twilight Arb. last night than I've had in a dungeon for years.

A couple of points -- it IS true that you need make use of a lot of your utility skills.  I was always swapping my extra skills around during the dungeons and it helps a lot.   Also as others have said, combo fields are you friends... including laying down combo fields in the place where you can see your party can benefit the most by them.  

You don't need to tell me how to run a dungeon,  I'll gladly run any dungeon with you and see how you fair.. and that honestly goes for everyone here,  I've been in groups with 80s in full exotics, and I've been in groups with random PUGs that just leveled up and its their first time running it.    I've brought people through their first explorable missions in AC and CM while leveling up time and time again...

But my point stands...  running any dungeon NOW.... PRIOR to 80 just doesn't make sense.  Twilight Arbor... I'd like to run that dungeon with anyone here who says dungeons aren't frustrating... and do the forward path -- no actually it doesn't matter,  any path on TA would pretty much do it.

 

The only thing I will say about being prepared and beating a dungeon... more important than anything you'll hear otherwise...  you have to know what to expect... after you run these dungeons a couple times each,  you'll know which weapons work best on which parts,  what to do,  and how fast you should or should not do it.  Coordination in the objectives is way more important then a combo field.    

I'm not trying to tell you how to run a dungeon, or to be condescending in any way.

I guess my experience differs from yours, and I would say it's just fine to run them prior to 80.  My alt (which I'm focusing on) is level 51, and I found TA to be just fine and quite enjoyable.  I run a couple of explorables each day... not too many, just enough to give some variation to the other parts of the game I'm playing.

I agree, learning the dungeon is the hardest part, and after that you know what to expect, what skills to swap to before a fight, etc.   My second run of TA was a lot easier than the first :)    Experience and coordination, both as a team and individually, as you say, is the most important part.  

He's talking about TA Explo, which does have some annoying volatile blooms all over the place that spawn on a very short timer. Those are very annoying and tedious imo also.

He tried to say CM Story mode was to difficult as well... lol

Post patch, after the difficulty revamp.. it is too difficult for the second story dungeon.

Originally posted by maskedweasel

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

Originally posted by AvatarBlade

Originally posted by gelraen

Originally posted by maskedweasel

Originally posted by gelraen

Originally posted by maskedweasel

 

Having played many of the dungeons now, and most in Explorable mode, I have to disagree.

My first impressions were also much like yours, I thought they were frustrating and I was close to giving up on them.  Then I had a few nice runs with Pugs of all things, where peple seemed to have improved their builds (more toughness, vit) and weren't running around like headless chickens all the time, and I started to have this "Oooooh!" feeling, where it all started to make more sense.

Since then I've had many great explorable runs and I quite enjoy them.  I guess the problem is a lot of people are coming from WoW, or Rift, or Swtor (I played all those games, btw, raiding and doing dungeons) where dungeons have become such an easy, watered down experience, that actual hard content is a major shock.  That combined with a pretty new way of thinking, with regards to being your own tank/healer, I can completely understand people's reaction.

Still I sincerely believe they are quite fun, and people should stick with them.  I had the most fun in Twilight Arb. last night than I've had in a dungeon for years.

A couple of points -- it IS true that you need make use of a lot of your utility skills.  I was always swapping my extra skills around during the dungeons and it helps a lot.   Also as others have said, combo fields are you friends... including laying down combo fields in the place where you can see your party can benefit the most by them.  

You don't need to tell me how to run a dungeon,  I'll gladly run any dungeon with you and see how you fair.. and that honestly goes for everyone here,  I've been in groups with 80s in full exotics, and I've been in groups with random PUGs that just leveled up and its their first time running it.    I've brought people through their first explorable missions in AC and CM while leveling up time and time again...

But my point stands...  running any dungeon NOW.... PRIOR to 80 just doesn't make sense.  Twilight Arbor... I'd like to run that dungeon with anyone here who says dungeons aren't frustrating... and do the forward path -- no actually it doesn't matter,  any path on TA would pretty much do it.

 

The only thing I will say about being prepared and beating a dungeon... more important than anything you'll hear otherwise...  you have to know what to expect... after you run these dungeons a couple times each,  you'll know which weapons work best on which parts,  what to do,  and how fast you should or should not do it.  Coordination in the objectives is way more important then a combo field.    

I'm not trying to tell you how to run a dungeon, or to be condescending in any way.

I guess my experience differs from yours, and I would say it's just fine to run them prior to 80.  My alt (which I'm focusing on) is level 51, and I found TA to be just fine and quite enjoyable.  I run a couple of explorables each day... not too many, just enough to give some variation to the other parts of the game I'm playing.

I agree, learning the dungeon is the hardest part, and after that you know what to expect, what skills to swap to before a fight, etc.   My second run of TA was a lot easier than the first :)    Experience and coordination, both as a team and individually, as you say, is the most important part.  

He's talking about TA Explo, which does have some annoying volatile blooms all over the place that spawn on a very short timer. Those are very annoying and tedious imo also.

He tried to say CM Story mode was to difficult as well... lol

Post patch, after the difficulty revamp.. it is too difficult for the second story dungeon.

Post patch its still a faceroll... Story mode is as easy as the dungeons come. As far as running a dungeon together, I'll pass from what you posted and your views on the difficulty of CM story mode I think I'd lose some hair. I don't have a problem giving advice while I'm on the forums and can't play anyways but my game time is for fun, not for teaching someone that has expressed a lack of interest in learning. 

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

 

Post patch its still a faceroll... Story mode is as easy as the dungeons come. As far as running a dungeon together, I'll pass from what you posted and your views on the difficulty of CM story mode I don't think I'd lose some hair. I don't have a problem giving advice while I'm on the forums and can't play anyways but my game time is for fun, not for teaching someone that has expressed a lack of interest in learning. 

Of COURSE you'll pass... that was me calling you out, and you buckling.  Lets be honest,  you've never run CM post patch.. and you're blindly defending the game.  Thats okay,  I understand.. everyone here is a "L33T G@M3R" and everythings so easy for them.. right?      

If not that, then we can do some sPvP instead maybe?  I think you believe I don't know what I'm doing,  and I'll be happy to prove you wrong.  I'll even let you pick the class I'll play lol.

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

Originally posted by maskedweasel

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

Originally posted by AvatarBlade

Originally posted by gelraen

Originally posted by maskedweasel

Originally posted by gelraen

Originally posted by maskedweasel

 

Having played many of the dungeons now, and most in Explorable mode, I have to disagree.

My first impressions were also much like yours, I thought they were frustrating and I was close to giving up on them.  Then I had a few nice runs with Pugs of all things, where peple seemed to have improved their builds (more toughness, vit) and weren't running around like headless chickens all the time, and I started to have this "Oooooh!" feeling, where it all started to make more sense.

Since then I've had many great explorable runs and I quite enjoy them.  I guess the problem is a lot of people are coming from WoW, or Rift, or Swtor (I played all those games, btw, raiding and doing dungeons) where dungeons have become such an easy, watered down experience, that actual hard content is a major shock.  That combined with a pretty new way of thinking, with regards to being your own tank/healer, I can completely understand people's reaction.

Still I sincerely believe they are quite fun, and people should stick with them.  I had the most fun in Twilight Arb. last night than I've had in a dungeon for years.

A couple of points -- it IS true that you need make use of a lot of your utility skills.  I was always swapping my extra skills around during the dungeons and it helps a lot.   Also as others have said, combo fields are you friends... including laying down combo fields in the place where you can see your party can benefit the most by them.  

You don't need to tell me how to run a dungeon,  I'll gladly run any dungeon with you and see how you fair.. and that honestly goes for everyone here,  I've been in groups with 80s in full exotics, and I've been in groups with random PUGs that just leveled up and its their first time running it.    I've brought people through their first explorable missions in AC and CM while leveling up time and time again...

But my point stands...  running any dungeon NOW.... PRIOR to 80 just doesn't make sense.  Twilight Arbor... I'd like to run that dungeon with anyone here who says dungeons aren't frustrating... and do the forward path -- no actually it doesn't matter,  any path on TA would pretty much do it.

 

The only thing I will say about being prepared and beating a dungeon... more important than anything you'll hear otherwise...  you have to know what to expect... after you run these dungeons a couple times each,  you'll know which weapons work best on which parts,  what to do,  and how fast you should or should not do it.  Coordination in the objectives is way more important then a combo field.    

I'm not trying to tell you how to run a dungeon, or to be condescending in any way.

I guess my experience differs from yours, and I would say it's just fine to run them prior to 80.  My alt (which I'm focusing on) is level 51, and I found TA to be just fine and quite enjoyable.  I run a couple of explorables each day... not too many, just enough to give some variation to the other parts of the game I'm playing.

I agree, learning the dungeon is the hardest part, and after that you know what to expect, what skills to swap to before a fight, etc.   My second run of TA was a lot easier than the first :)    Experience and coordination, both as a team and individually, as you say, is the most important part.  

He's talking about TA Explo, which does have some annoying volatile blooms all over the place that spawn on a very short timer. Those are very annoying and tedious imo also.

He tried to say CM Story mode was to difficult as well... lol

Post patch, after the difficulty revamp.. it is too difficult for the second story dungeon.

Post patch its still a faceroll... Story mode is as easy as the dungeons come. As far as running a dungeon together, I'll pass from what you posted and your views on the difficulty of CM story mode I think I'd lose some hair. I don't have a problem giving advice while I'm on the forums and can't play anyways but my game time is for fun, not for teaching someone that has expressed a lack of interest in learning. 

I'm not sure I feel it's a faceroll -- some of those trash pulls would probably be overwhelming for casual players.  I don't have a big problem with it though, as I like challenging content personally.  That said, I haven't run it post-changes more than once.

I have mixed feelings about the story modes overall.  I don't personally plan to run any of them more than once (with the exception of AC which I've run a few times), as I don't really see what the point would be.  Explorables are the real dungeon for me, and I will mostly concentrate on them later other than a dungeon or two a day.    I wouldn't be too sad if they nerfed the hell out of story modes and left the rewards as they are now, and put a lockout on them.  Then casuals could have their easy content and they could control how many times they could be farmed.  I think they tried to shy away from the lock system, but obviously it has its advantages for this reason (right now, I think the difficulty is supposed to be the "lock")

Originally posted by gelraen

 

I'm not sure I feel it's a faceroll -- some of those trash pulls would probably be overwhelming for casual players.  I don't have a big problem with it though, as I like challenging content personally.  That said, I haven't run it post-changes more than once.

I have mixed feelings about the story modes overall.  I don't personally plan to run any of them more than once (with the exception of AC which I've run a few times), as I don't really see what the point would be.  Explorables are the real dungeon for me, and I will mostly concentrate on them later other than a dungeon or two a day.    I wouldn't be too sad if they nerfed the hell out of story modes and left the rewards as they are now, and put a lockout on them.  Then casuals could have their easy content and they could control how many times they could be farmed.  I think they tried to shy away from the lock system, but obviously it has its advantages for this reason (right now, I think the difficulty is supposed to be the "lock")

The way I see Story Modes,  they should be really casual friendly, but still somewhat challenging.  I feel they should be more balanced then anything.  For example you say you've run AC a lot for story...  I think the boss encounters are just right in AC but the mobs....  rangers with their ranged traps, elementalist AOE and necromancer lifesteal does way too much damage,  but all manageable...   the thing about it is,  they are much tougher then the bosses... so I would like to see that balanced a little bit to where trash mobs aren't the worst of what you experience.

People seem to think I'm saying everything is too hard... I don't believe that at all.  You do need a lot of coordination, and some skill....  more importantly (again using AC as an example)  you need the right mix of players to achieve success.  Path 1 needs some okay heals and good DPS to take down mounds and protect hodgins,  path 2, is pretty easy overall,  path 3 you need very high DPS to take down mounds and protect crystals.  If your DPS isn't high enough you'll get overrun and fail.  To me, that doesn't allow for "any build can do anything at any time" .    I also think that some dungeons.. while challenging and able to be completed,  are still frustrating at certain parts.

Originally posted by maskedweasel

 

Not to mention you contradicting yourself,  you say how easy they are.. then  you say you drop from groups?  

He said they are easy as long as you are playing with people who are either good at what they do, or are willing to follow directions. If you are in a really terrible PUG and they won't follow directions, then there is no point wasting your time. IMO he is doing the right thing by politely excusing himself.

Not the way I play either.  If I start with a group I finish with one unless they give up.

Which may be why you are having such a bad time... Let me ask you, how many of the dungeon runs you did were done with a coordinated guild group and how many were PUGed? 

 And sorry but advice like "just use combo fields"  isn't the magic bullet some people here think it is.  

Its not a magic bullet which will somehow miraculously /win for you. It IS an integral part of the game and absolutely necessary for success IMO... And that is directed at the OP who complained about slow kills, and too much difficulty. Just a couple of examples... a Guardian drops a symbol and hits one of his whirlwind attack, all of the members of his party lose conditions. I drop a fire fields just as everyone pops off their blast finisher, much increased damage against the target. He was complaining about taking as much as a minute to take down each mob in a group while the others beat on you... That is excessive and strikes me as being a gap in play style, or knowledge, or gear. Assuming that they aren't way undergeared(which is a big assumption), it is either how they are built and their play style or else it is a lack of knowledge about ways to increase your damage and survivability... And the one that seems to be consistently lacking when I've spoken to people about this in the game is the combo system, so that is the one that most people are forgetting in their equation, and that is the reason why it is stressed so much.

Do we die or wipe occasionally? Sure... In CoF when you have those big groups with the bombers in them, we tried to take the entire group at one time and wiped badly... Tried again with controlled pulls and it was cake... Do we have a problem killing things? no, not really... And since that is the big complaint from the OP, that is what we are addressing.

Originally posted by Mors-Subita

Originally posted by maskedweasel

 

Not to mention you contradicting yourself,  you say how easy they are.. then  you say you drop from groups?  

He said they are easy as long as you are playing with people who are either good at what they do, or are willing to follow directions. If you are in a really terrible PUG and they won't follow directions, then there is no point wasting your time. IMO he is doing the right thing by politely excusing himself.

Not the way I play either.  If I start with a group I finish with one unless they give up.

Which may be why you are having such a bad time... Let me ask you, how many of the dungeon runs you did were done with a coordinated guild group and how many were PUGed? 

 And sorry but advice like "just use combo fields"  isn't the magic bullet some people here think it is.  

Its not a magic bullet which will somehow miraculously /win for you. It IS an integral part of the game and absolutely necessary for success IMO... And that is directed at the OP who complained about slow kills, and too much difficulty. Just a couple of examples... a Guardian drops a symbol and hits one of his whirlwind attack, all of the members of his party lose conditions. I drop a fire fields just as everyone pops off their blast finisher, much increased damage against the target. He was complaining about taking as much as a minute to take down each mob in a group while the others beat on you... That is excessive and strikes me as being a gap in play style, or knowledge, or gear. Assuming that they aren't way undergeared(which is a big assumption), it is either how they are built and their play style or else it is a lack of knowledge about ways to increase your damage and survivability... And the one that seems to be consistently lacking when I've spoken to people about this in the game is the combo system, so that is the one that most people are forgetting in their equation, and that is the reason why it is stressed so much.

Do we die or wipe occasionally? Sure... In CoF when you have those big groups with the bombers in them, we tried to take the entire group at one time and wiped badly... Tried again with controlled pulls and it was cake... Do we have a problem killing things? no, not really... And since that is the big complaint from the OP, that is what we are addressing.

 

To answer your question I've PUG'd 75% of the dungeons I've done.. and again.. I've only ever walked out of a dungeon about 4 times without completing it...  I've never walked out of a story dungeon.  I have gear tokens for every dungeon as well.

Sometimes I do get really bad groups.. I point out bad players,  and so on.  I don't leave groups,  I help them get through it.  Thats not to say that there aren't parts of dungeons that I think  are frustrating parts even with an experienced group.

As for combos,  I'm not going to say they don't help...  but they won't make dungeons move substantially faster IMO.  I'm not saying don't use them... obviously...  as for killing faster,  a lot of it would have to be the spec as well as abilities, gear too.