At first would probably have said it's preety bad, or at least annoying, but after playing for a while, I like it. Thing is, in explorable mode at least, the game does force you to addapt.

About healing, I play a tanky support guardian, whit gear that has + heal on it, and, altho there aren't many direct heals, I can do 2.5k heals on everyone around me with 1 skill, like 1.8h with another and give a lot of regeneration and shields to team mates.

Not all explorables require exotics, but I would say stuff like Arah or CoE explorable, does, or at least it is recommended to have it.

You can run explorables as glass cannons, 2 people in my usual group are just that, but you need to use toughness food and the potion that is specific to each dungeon (- 10% dmg taken from those enemies and +10% done to them; you can check the names on the token armor vendors, but should buy at TP, they are cheap so not worth to spend 1 badge on them at that vendor).

What I do find dumb, is trash packs being harder than bosses sometimes, but it seems they want to address that and they are also working on rewards which is a good thing also.

Also a lot of the time, you don't have to change traits, but you do have to change your 7-10 skills, for certain encounters. Don't be affraid to do that, it will help a lot. For example, some range mobs were being really hard, decimating our health...until me and another guardian in our group started using wall of reflection (think it's called) and they started killing themselves.

I agree that a few of the story modes are sometimes too hard for story modes and it can discourage people from trying further to learn certain tricks like changing skills and using combos. Maybe a more in depth tutorial would help. Like a lvl 20 mini dungeon where you have certain small chalanges in which it's explained how to overcome through the use of combo fields or certain skills that might not seem attractive at first sight.

Originally posted by Omnifish

I do love how you and Korrigan seem to jump on that guy, over he's, '600 hour', statement, because really that's all the pair of you have to go on isn't? I'd suspect he's done a lot more dungeons and has more experience of that mode then you, but you must discredit him because he's negative about saintly GW2.  You diehard GW2 fanbois are truly pathetic.

GW2's dungeons are actually hillariously simplistic,  They have much less variety then WoW's raids, sorry to tell you.  Here's how to succeed at dungeons: 1. Bring a Guardian, with a sword and shield. 2. Bring a Mesmer, who is fine with condition/debuffing, 3. Bring whoever else with toughness and vitality signets. 4. Stick everyone at range, apart from the Guardian who should dodge when he can. 5. WIN!

If your having problems with that, or can't get that setup, graveyard zerg till it dies, (Twins is especially fun doing this!).

That is pretty much it.  The games, 'difficulty', comes from mistakes or unavoidable aoe, which just blows you away. I.E. Like others have said mobs that hit like trucks, that's just poor design because it's simply to do and has no reply value.

By all means though if you think your a superior being for loving GW2 and we're all living in the past go ahead, who are we to stop you? 

This

Seriously guys do you really have to defend everything this game has even if said dungeons are not that great?

Zhaitan battle anyone?

Worst boss fight ever, so disappointing.

Originally posted by AvatarBlade

At first would probably have said it's preety bad, or at least annoying, but after playing for a while, I like it. Thing is, in explorable mode at least, the game does force you to addapt.

About healing, I play a tanky support guardian, whit gear that has + heal on it, and, altho there aren't many direct heals, I can do 2.5k heals on everyone around me with 1 skill, like 1.8h with another and give a lot of regeneration and shields to team mates.

Not all explorables require exotics, but I would say stuff like Arah or CoE explorable, does, or at least it is recommended to have it.

You can run explorables as glass cannons, 2 people in my usual group are just that, but you need to use toughness food and the potion that is specific to each dungeon (- 10% dmg taken from those enemies and +10% done to them; you can check the names on the token armor vendors, but should buy at TP, they are cheap so not worth to spend 1 badge on them at that vendor).

What I do find dumb, is trash packs being harder than bosses sometimes, but it seems they want to address that and they are also working on rewards which is a good thing also.

Also a lot of the time, you don't have to change traits, but you do have to change your 7-10 skills, for certain encounters. Don't be affraid to do that, it will help a lot. For example, some range mobs were being really hard, decimating our health...until me and another guardian in our group started using wall of reflection (think it's called) and they started killing themselves.

I agree that a few of the story modes are sometimes too hard for story modes and it can discourage people from trying further to learn certain tricks like changing skills and using combos. Maybe a more in depth tutorial would help. Like a lvl 20 mini dungeon where you have certain small chalanges in which it's explained how to overcome through the use of combo fields or certain skills that might not seem attractive at first sight.

Trash mobs can be CC'ed to oblivion.

Bosses require boon stacking and damage which is probably closer to what people run 24/7.

The first time you do a dungeon and have traps covering the entire room and 3 mobs spamming AoE it seems impossible, crazy insane masochist stuff.

The 3rd time it is trivial.

Originally posted by bloodaxes

Originally posted by Omnifish

I do love how you and Korrigan seem to jump on that guy, over he's, '600 hour', statement, because really that's all the pair of you have to go on isn't? I'd suspect he's done a lot more dungeons and has more experience of that mode then you, but you must discredit him because he's negative about saintly GW2.  You diehard GW2 fanbois are truly pathetic.

GW2's dungeons are actually hillariously simplistic,  They have much less variety then WoW's raids, sorry to tell you.  Here's how to succeed at dungeons: 1. Bring a Guardian, with a sword and shield. 2. Bring a Mesmer, who is fine with condition/debuffing, 3. Bring whoever else with toughness and vitality signets. 4. Stick everyone at range, apart from the Guardian who should dodge when he can. 5. WIN!

If your having problems with that, or can't get that setup, graveyard zerg till it dies, (Twins is especially fun doing this!).

That is pretty much it.  The games, 'difficulty', comes from mistakes or unavoidable aoe, which just blows you away. I.E. Like others have said mobs that hit like trucks, that's just poor design because it's simply to do and has no reply value.

By all means though if you think your a superior being for loving GW2 and we're all living in the past go ahead, who are we to stop you? 

This

Seriously guys do you really have to defend everything this game has even if said dungeons are not that great?

Zhaitan battle anyone?

Worst boss fight ever, so disappointing.

I'm sorry, but anyone that require any special strategy aside 1 guy throwing rocks at 1 of the twins doesn't deserve any credit.

I would also like to know how people are doing with mass defense vs the graveling burrows in AC explorable or how is that graveyard zerging working.

The crap one reads about this game is endless.

Yes, Zhaitain fight is a letdown.

Originally posted by Omnifish

Originally posted by Caliburn101

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

Originally posted by Khebeln

I have 600+ Hours played on one character

Wow, thats 20 hours a day (game has been out for 30 days I think - August 25 (early access) to today included)... that leaves 4 hours to sleep, washing, eating, etc...

Yeah, sure :)

And you played 600+ hours in 30 days and didn't notice you can switch builds for a 3s50c fee at any trainer?

You hit the nail on the head there Korrigan.

A player who opens their arguement with a dismissive 'I have more time online in GW2 than you so any counter-arguement you make is invalid' and then overblows it with an impossible figure.

.... and another poster saying they 'miss strategy'.... hell that translates pretty accurately to 'I miss predictable scripting and repeat same tactic = win' gameplay.

The comment on combo fields is also well made - they make a tremendous difference.

I for one run dungeons with power/toughness/heal accessories and power/crit/condition damage armour and weapons and do just fine. You only need to stack vitality/toughness/power if you lack skill and/or adaptability.

The difference between a PUG lacking in cohesion and synergy and a guild-team who understand that the whole is more than the sum of the parts is very marked in dungeons.

Yes it is a more complex challenge. Yes, you will wipe a lot if you go in wth your 'WoW Raid Head', but things improve significantly once you realise the dungeons in GW2 require a more flexible form of team play.

I have experienced some of the worst and the best dungeon runs in this regard and it is as clear as crystal why the bad was painful, and the good was a triumph.

It will be obvious to anyone else still struggling as long as they stick at it - better yet, get into one of my Guilds dungeon runs and see the difference for yourself.

The game is a new take on things - clinging to the old paradigms isn't going to work.

Stop being such Luddites about it....

I do love how you and Korrigan seem to jump on that guy, over he's, '600 hour', statement, because really that's all the pair of you have to go on isn't? I'd suspect he's done a lot more dungeons and has more experience of that mode then you, but you must discredit him because he's negative about saintly GW2.  You diehard GW2 fanbois are truly pathetic.

GW2's dungeons are actually hillariously simplistic,  They have much less variety then WoW's raids, sorry to tell you.  Here's how to succeed at dungeons: 1. Bring a Guardian, with a sword and shield. 2. Bring a Mesmer, who is fine with condition/debuffing, 3. Bring whoever else with toughness and vitality signets. 4. Stick everyone at range, apart from the Guardian who should dodge when he can. 5. WIN!

If your having problems with that, or can't get that setup, graveyard zerg till it dies, (Twins is especially fun doing this!).

That is pretty much it.  The games, 'difficulty', comes from mistakes or unavoidable aoe, which just blows you away. I.E. Like others have said mobs that hit like trucks, that's just poor design because it's simply to do and has no reply value.

By all means though if you think your a superior being for loving GW2 and we're all living in the past go ahead, who are we to stop you? 

"You diehard GW2 fanbois are truly pathetic."

They are are they.... and I am, am I?

"By all means though if you think your a superior being for loving GW2 and we're all living in the past go ahead, who are we to stop you?"

I wasn't aware I thought of myself as a superior being. Interesting you 'picked up on that' - can't say anyone else ever has, but your insights are so much more accurate than anyone elses' I suspect.

The only thing 'hillariously simple' about GW2 is the quality of posts like yours. You insult, you make statements of 'fact' without the slightest corroborating evidence etc. For instance - do a straw poll of people who think the dungeons are hard as opposed to easy as you state. Apart from the CoF easymode run which tackled by ANet, and to a lesser extent the storymodes (some of which still nevertheless challenge) you are notable in the rarity of your point of view.

People don't generally agree with you that dungeons are easy in other words.

I realise you will not agree - but then at least I managed to dissagree with your point of view without insulting you....

....something I find 'hillariously simple'.

Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

Originally posted by AvatarBlade

At first would probably have said it's preety bad, or at least annoying, but after playing for a while, I like it. Thing is, in explorable mode at least, the game does force you to addapt.

About healing, I play a tanky support guardian, whit gear that has + heal on it, and, altho there aren't many direct heals, I can do 2.5k heals on everyone around me with 1 skill, like 1.8h with another and give a lot of regeneration and shields to team mates.

Not all explorables require exotics, but I would say stuff like Arah or CoE explorable, does, or at least it is recommended to have it.

You can run explorables as glass cannons, 2 people in my usual group are just that, but you need to use toughness food and the potion that is specific to each dungeon (- 10% dmg taken from those enemies and +10% done to them; you can check the names on the token armor vendors, but should buy at TP, they are cheap so not worth to spend 1 badge on them at that vendor).

What I do find dumb, is trash packs being harder than bosses sometimes, but it seems they want to address that and they are also working on rewards which is a good thing also.

Also a lot of the time, you don't have to change traits, but you do have to change your 7-10 skills, for certain encounters. Don't be affraid to do that, it will help a lot. For example, some range mobs were being really hard, decimating our health...until me and another guardian in our group started using wall of reflection (think it's called) and they started killing themselves.

I agree that a few of the story modes are sometimes too hard for story modes and it can discourage people from trying further to learn certain tricks like changing skills and using combos. Maybe a more in depth tutorial would help. Like a lvl 20 mini dungeon where you have certain small chalanges in which it's explained how to overcome through the use of combo fields or certain skills that might not seem attractive at first sight.

Trash mobs can be CC'ed to oblivion.

Bosses require boon stacking and damage which is probably closer to what people run 24/7.

The first time you do a dungeon and have traps covering the entire room and 3 mobs spamming AoE it seems impossible, crazy insane masochist stuff.

The 3rd time it is trivial.

Still find trash packs with 2 stun channelers and 2 deadeyes that almost 1 shot you while staying near a minefield, harder to handle than some of the bosses in Arah explorable, for example, even with stability and CC.

Originally posted by Aerowyn
gotta learn combo fields.. if you get a group together that knows how to utliize combo fields well dungeons can be a blast

Exactly!

Which is why I play a Longbow Warrior primary Sword/Warhorn secondary with shouts and runes of the soldier in dungeons, having so much combo potential and condition removal makes the dungeons go alot smoother.

Just remember to spec for condition removal, and combo fields and your dungeon runs will go alot smoother.

I am a known GW2 fan... But, ultimately, I am also a group based PvEer, and I also don't like their dungeons much.

I know GW2 has been very clear about it's no trinity and eSports PvP philosophy, and I hold it no bad feeling as a game because of the way groups work, but in the long term I know it isn't for me because of it. The PvE game is too heavily at the mercy of PvP design for my tastes. The group PvE game seems to be tacked on as an afterthought.

Put simply, when it comes to group content, I miss strong group roles and all that brings.

edited for clarity

Originally posted by Omnifish

Originally posted by Caliburn101

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

Originally posted by Khebeln

I have 600+ Hours played on one character

Wow, thats 20 hours a day (game has been out for 30 days I think - August 25 (early access) to today included)... that leaves 4 hours to sleep, washing, eating, etc...

Yeah, sure :)

And you played 600+ hours in 30 days and didn't notice you can switch builds for a 3s50c fee at any trainer?

You hit the nail on the head there Korrigan.

A player who opens their arguement with a dismissive 'I have more time online in GW2 than you so any counter-arguement you make is invalid' and then overblows it with an impossible figure.

.... and another poster saying they 'miss strategy'.... hell that translates pretty accurately to 'I miss predictable scripting and repeat same tactic = win' gameplay.

The comment on combo fields is also well made - they make a tremendous difference.

I for one run dungeons with power/toughness/heal accessories and power/crit/condition damage armour and weapons and do just fine. You only need to stack vitality/toughness/power if you lack skill and/or adaptability.

The difference between a PUG lacking in cohesion and synergy and a guild-team who understand that the whole is more than the sum of the parts is very marked in dungeons.

Yes it is a more complex challenge. Yes, you will wipe a lot if you go in wth your 'WoW Raid Head', but things improve significantly once you realise the dungeons in GW2 require a more flexible form of team play.

I have experienced some of the worst and the best dungeon runs in this regard and it is as clear as crystal why the bad was painful, and the good was a triumph.

It will be obvious to anyone else still struggling as long as they stick at it - better yet, get into one of my Guilds dungeon runs and see the difference for yourself.

The game is a new take on things - clinging to the old paradigms isn't going to work.

Stop being such Luddites about it....

I do love how you and Korrigan seem to jump on that guy, over he's, '600 hour', statement, because really that's all the pair of you have to go on isn't? I'd suspect he's done a lot more dungeons and has more experience of that mode then you, but you must discredit him because he's negative about saintly GW2.  You diehard GW2 fanbois are truly pathetic.

GW2's dungeons are actually hillariously simplistic,  They have much less variety then WoW's raids, sorry to tell you.  Here's how to succeed at dungeons: 1. Bring a Guardian, with a sword and shield. 2. Bring a Mesmer, who is fine with condition/debuffing, 3. Bring whoever else with toughness and vitality signets. 4. Stick everyone at range, apart from the Guardian who should dodge when he can. 5. WIN!

If your having problems with that, or can't get that setup, graveyard zerg till it dies, (Twins is especially fun doing this!).

That is pretty much it.  The games, 'difficulty', comes from mistakes or unavoidable aoe, which just blows you away. I.E. Like others have said mobs that hit like trucks, that's just poor design because it's simply to do and has no reply value.

By all means though if you think your a superior being for loving GW2 and we're all living in the past go ahead, who are we to stop you? 

+1

Originally posted by Vesavius

I am a known GW2 fan... But, ultimately, I am also a group based PvEer, and I also don't like their dungeons much.

 

I know GW2 has been very clear about it's no trinity and eSports PvP philosophy, and I hold it no bad feeling as a game because of the way groups work, but in the long term I know it isn't for me because of it. The PvE game is too heavily at the mercy of PvP design for my tastes. The group PvE game seems to be tacked on as an afterthought.

 

Put simply, when it comes to group content, I miss strong group roles and all that brings. Like I say though, I do consider the game a success and well worth my money, I just don't see it being my  'A' game past me getting done with the solo PvE side of things.

 

I love their art style, their NPC scripting, and what they have done with their open world solo PvE (because playing alongside someone isn't the same as playing WITH them, no matter how you dress it). ANet are sublime world builders. I think the inclusion of extras like vistas, jumping puzzles, and the diverse environments for me to explore around in are awesome. When I am done with all this, I will be done with the game until new content that suits me is dropped in.

 

I know it will piss some off and cause them to spit their dummies out, but I personally would enjoy the game more if the tanks could tank and the healers could actually heal. Why allow me to build a healing or tanking spec if that style of play is not viable? It's just the illusion of choice.

This is what I think about the game too

Originally posted by papardelios

Originally posted by Omnifish

Originally posted by Caliburn101

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

Originally posted by Khebeln

I have 600+ Hours played on one character

Wow, thats 20 hours a day (game has been out for 30 days I think - August 25 (early access) to today included)... that leaves 4 hours to sleep, washing, eating, etc...

Yeah, sure :)

And you played 600+ hours in 30 days and didn't notice you can switch builds for a 3s50c fee at any trainer?

You hit the nail on the head there Korrigan.

A player who opens their arguement with a dismissive 'I have more time online in GW2 than you so any counter-arguement you make is invalid' and then overblows it with an impossible figure.

.... and another poster saying they 'miss strategy'.... hell that translates pretty accurately to 'I miss predictable scripting and repeat same tactic = win' gameplay.

The comment on combo fields is also well made - they make a tremendous difference.

I for one run dungeons with power/toughness/heal accessories and power/crit/condition damage armour and weapons and do just fine. You only need to stack vitality/toughness/power if you lack skill and/or adaptability.

The difference between a PUG lacking in cohesion and synergy and a guild-team who understand that the whole is more than the sum of the parts is very marked in dungeons.

Yes it is a more complex challenge. Yes, you will wipe a lot if you go in wth your 'WoW Raid Head', but things improve significantly once you realise the dungeons in GW2 require a more flexible form of team play.

I have experienced some of the worst and the best dungeon runs in this regard and it is as clear as crystal why the bad was painful, and the good was a triumph.

It will be obvious to anyone else still struggling as long as they stick at it - better yet, get into one of my Guilds dungeon runs and see the difference for yourself.

The game is a new take on things - clinging to the old paradigms isn't going to work.

Stop being such Luddites about it....

I do love how you and Korrigan seem to jump on that guy, over he's, '600 hour', statement, because really that's all the pair of you have to go on isn't? I'd suspect he's done a lot more dungeons and has more experience of that mode then you, but you must discredit him because he's negative about saintly GW2.  You diehard GW2 fanbois are truly pathetic.

GW2's dungeons are actually hillariously simplistic,  They have much less variety then WoW's raids, sorry to tell you.  Here's how to succeed at dungeons: 1. Bring a Guardian, with a sword and shield. 2. Bring a Mesmer, who is fine with condition/debuffing, 3. Bring whoever else with toughness and vitality signets. 4. Stick everyone at range, apart from the Guardian who should dodge when he can. 5. WIN!

If your having problems with that, or can't get that setup, graveyard zerg till it dies, (Twins is especially fun doing this!).

That is pretty much it.  The games, 'difficulty', comes from mistakes or unavoidable aoe, which just blows you away. I.E. Like others have said mobs that hit like trucks, that's just poor design because it's simply to do and has no reply value.

By all means though if you think your a superior being for loving GW2 and we're all living in the past go ahead, who are we to stop you? 

+1

Yo, mods, when's this website getting a +1 (or -1 ofc) voting system for individual posts? It's time, don't ya think?

GW2 Dungeons should be called 'Bane of Casual McScrub'. 

For casual 'non-pro' gamers  the dungeons are a losing bet, sure to inflict pain and suffering for intangible rewards.

Untill they nerf DE's the risk/reward of GW2 dungeons is nor worth it.  I have yet to see any pixel's that are worth it.

Originally posted by ennymith

GW2 Dungeons should be called 'Bane of Casual McScrub'. 

For casual 'non-pro' gamers  the dungeons are a losing bet, sure to inflict pain and suffering for intangible rewards.

Untill they nerf DE's the risk/reward of GW2 dungeons is nor worth it.  I have yet to see any pixel's that are worth it.

As was stated by the developer - the Dungeons are being studied to determine if they are hard or not. SOme of the worst instances I have been in were in GW1, until you figured out how to do them and PLAN it out. Then they were decent and fun.

I played Rift, and did some of the Elite dungeons (too many times for me) and I can say, the GW1/GW2 ones are different enough to peak my curiosity.

Originally posted by Kumate

When entering the zone we started thru the story.  First mob is a Golem, solo, and didn't go to bad.  One death by a warrior but we got him up fast.  I'm thinking ok, not to shabby.  Second group of mobs is where it all went downhill.  Your first pull there is about 4-5 mobs.  Each one of them are "elite" which means even if all 5 of us are attacking it, it takes about 45-60 seconds to burn it down.  Except there is no way to do ANYTHING about the other 4 beating on you.  There is no tanking, no offtanking, no CC that is worth it.  Most CC in this game last 3 seconds maybe.  So needless to say, nearly every pull was a wipe.  We spent as much time rezing people as we did fighting.  

We beat the dungeon, but our strat was to all attack one mob, burn it down hopefully before we wiped, and come back and do it again.  We would burn the barrel placers first and so on. 

I know that CM was made harder recenetly, but this was just storymode.  I felt like I didn't learn anything from the story because I was to busy cringing at this system.  There was NOTHING FUN about this dungeon.  We also had a person quit and we had to replace them during this dungeon because he said (sorry guys..this dugeon system is horrible..I am going to uninstall). 

 

My character was setup for PVE and grouping.  I had healing spring with some points into healing, search and rescue to help with rezing and the healing spirit.  There was no way to heal thru that damage.  We also had a guardian and that helped some but just prolonged how long it took us to wipe. 

I miss my healers, tanks, and true CC.  I lost motivation to level now because I do enjoy PVE more then PVP and knowing that is all I have to look forward to in dungeons is quite dishearting.  I love every other aspect of this game, crafting, quest, pvp, graphics, but this is to core of a system for me to overlook.  There is a difference between core mehanics and difficulty.  The core mechanics on dungeons is just broke.  Even if they made it super easy and a zerg fest, there would still be no "skill" to the system.  It is either boring no pay attention killing, or just a wipe and res as fast as you can event.  I miss strategy.

 

So you were bad and because of that you complain ? For some reason some groups have it quite easy. Did you think about it a little ? Why is that ?

There is big difference between GW2 and other themeparks like Rift, WoW, TOR etc. It's not designed around stationary combat. So tank role is not to stay still, take agro and wait while healer is healing him. In this game being a punching bag is NOT A VALID TACTIC.

When I'm configured around defense (traits, traits bonuses, skills, weapon etc) I keep my shields up when I'm about to be hit. There are multiple shields like someone mentioned. Also I dodge a lot. Only idiot don't dodge incomings. I heal only when I need to. As secondary weapon I use scepter (nice AOE + rate of fire, too slow so only for PVE + short CC) and focus (for 3-hit shield that blow up).

As offensive guardian I use mutliple AOE + combo attacks and stuff to create literally a deathfield around me. I can burn down multiple oponents VERY VERY fast. Not good for champions but I'm not a nuker. My job is to take multiple weak enemies. 

We also gather group with people that specialize in some roles. In dungeons I'm tanking but not TOR/WoW/RIft way. My job is to get attention and don't get killed by shielding, dodging and using skills. For example as hammer user I can create nice circle for 5s that will keep mobs in check and will not allow them to leave. Best to focus everything you got on that circle when it's on (whole team).

People say that in GW2 there is no tanking, healing etc. They are WRONG. Everything is in place. Difference is that no class is design for specific role. Take a TOR for example. You have trees for 2-3 roles right ? In theory. But in the end you will end up with the role your class was originally designed to do because it will be best at it. Part of this problem is that tree system was added quite late in TOR after people complain about trinity. 

GW2 have no trinity. You are free to make a healer out of guardian. Just remember that in this game healing is just another way of support. Is not something that you focus all you are doing around. Healing will help someone but it will not keep you alive for a long.

In the end, I find GW2 dungeons much more enjoyable. Only thing I would change is to add mutliple patterns of attack/defense for them and less HP to make fights more interesting and shorter. In Rift/WoW/TOR all you were doing is "rotation" to burn down enemies while tank was taking agro. He was standing there doing from little to nothing while healers where keeping us all alive. And healing was so powerfull that when 2-3 healers were doing cross-healing in arena, you could not take them down. 

Quite supid I must say. ANet give you a choice. Use it. Don't complain.

Originally posted by Omnifish

 

I do love how you and Korrigan seem to jump on that guy, over he's, '600 hour', statement, because really that's all the pair of you have to go on isn't?

Exactly.

And if he had said that he had got 600+ hours on his account, and the game is..."GREAT!!! Dying in dungeons means you are playing it wrong!!!! Its all working well, unless you are a WoW scrub so go back to WoW and dont call this game flawed in any way you hater", then those 2 posters would have readily quoted him as 'an experienced GW2 player' to further their points and used his posts as proof that the OP is wrong.

Double standards of the poorest kind. And ofcourse that other poster might come back with another condescendingly smug drivel about what he would have done, but thats just the nature of petty people to act ignorant when called out on their BS.

For as much as I like GW2, I feel the game fell short on having worthwhile dungeons by a long shot...Its "different" by ANet's point of view but IMHO its just a bad kind of unbalanced 'different'. 

Originally posted by Wendetta

Originally posted by Omnifish

 

I do love how you and Korrigan seem to jump on that guy, over he's, '600 hour', statement, because really that's all the pair of you have to go on isn't?

Exactly.

 

And if he had said that he had got 600+ hours on his account, and the game is..."GREAT!!! Dying in dungeons means you are playing it wrong!!!! Its all working well, unless you are a WoW scrub so go back to WoW and dont call this game flawed in any way you hater", then those 2 posters would have readily quoted him as 'an experienced GW2 player' to further their points and used his posts as proof that the OP is wrong.

Double standards of the poorest kind. And ofcourse that other poster might come back with another condescendingly smug drivel about what he would have done, but thats just the nature of petty people to act ignorant when called out on their BS.

 

For as much as I like GW2, I feel the game fell short on having worthwhile dungeons by a long shot...Its "different" by ANet's point of view but IMHO its just a bad kind of unbalanced 'different'. 

Not to mention he derailed the thread

Originally posted by dariuszp

Originally posted by Kumate

When entering the zone we started thru the story.  First mob is a Golem, solo, and didn't go to bad.  One death by a warrior but we got him up fast.  I'm thinking ok, not to shabby.  Second group of mobs is where it all went downhill.  Your first pull there is about 4-5 mobs.  Each one of them are "elite" which means even if all 5 of us are attacking it, it takes about 45-60 seconds to burn it down.  Except there is no way to do ANYTHING about the other 4 beating on you.  There is no tanking, no offtanking, no CC that is worth it.  Most CC in this game last 3 seconds maybe.  So needless to say, nearly every pull was a wipe.  We spent as much time rezing people as we did fighting.  

We beat the dungeon, but our strat was to all attack one mob, burn it down hopefully before we wiped, and come back and do it again.  We would burn the barrel placers first and so on. 

I know that CM was made harder recenetly, but this was just storymode.  I felt like I didn't learn anything from the story because I was to busy cringing at this system.  There was NOTHING FUN about this dungeon.  We also had a person quit and we had to replace them during this dungeon because he said (sorry guys..this dugeon system is horrible..I am going to uninstall). 

 

My character was setup for PVE and grouping.  I had healing spring with some points into healing, search and rescue to help with rezing and the healing spirit.  There was no way to heal thru that damage.  We also had a guardian and that helped some but just prolonged how long it took us to wipe. 

I miss my healers, tanks, and true CC.  I lost motivation to level now because I do enjoy PVE more then PVP and knowing that is all I have to look forward to in dungeons is quite dishearting.  I love every other aspect of this game, crafting, quest, pvp, graphics, but this is to core of a system for me to overlook.  There is a difference between core mehanics and difficulty.  The core mechanics on dungeons is just broke.  Even if they made it super easy and a zerg fest, there would still be no "skill" to the system.  It is either boring no pay attention killing, or just a wipe and res as fast as you can event.  I miss strategy.

 

So you were bad and because of that you complain ? For some reason some groups have it quite easy. Did you think about it a little ? Why is that ?

There is big difference between GW2 and other themeparks like Rift, WoW, TOR etc. It's not designed around stationary combat. So tank role is not to stay still, take agro and wait while healer is healing him. In this game being a punching bag is NOT A VALID TACTIC.

When I'm configured around defense (traits, traits bonuses, skills, weapon etc) I keep my shields up when I'm about to be hit. There are multiple shields like someone mentioned. Also I dodge a lot. Only idiot don't dodge incomings. I heal only when I need to. As secondary weapon I use scepter (nice AOE + rate of fire, too slow so only for PVE + short CC) and focus (for 3-hit shield that blow up).

As offensive guardian I use mutliple AOE + combo attacks and stuff to create literally a deathfield around me. I can burn down multiple oponents VERY VERY fast. Not good for champions but I'm not a nuker. My job is to take multiple weak enemies. 

We also gather group with people that specialize in some roles. In dungeons I'm tanking but not TOR/WoW/RIft way. My job is to get attention and don't get killed by shielding, dodging and using skills. For example as hammer user I can create nice circle for 5s that will keep mobs in check and will not allow them to leave. Best to focus everything you got on that circle when it's on (whole team).

 

People say that in GW2 there is no tanking, healing etc. They are WRONG. Everything is in place. Difference is that no class is design for specific role. Take a TOR for example. You have trees for 2-3 roles right ? In theory. But in the end you will end up with the role your class was originally designed to do because it will be best at it. Part of this problem is that tree system was added quite late in TOR after people complain about trinity. 

GW2 have no trinity. You are free to make a healer out of guardian. Just remember that in this game healing is just another way of support. Is not something that you focus all you are doing around. Healing will help someone but it will not keep you alive for a long.

 

In the end, I find GW2 dungeons much more enjoyable. Only thing I would change is to add mutliple patterns of attack/defense for them and less HP to make fights more interesting and shorter. In Rift/WoW/TOR all you were doing is "rotation" to burn down enemies while tank was taking agro. He was standing there doing from little to nothing while healers where keeping us all alive. And healing was so powerfull that when 2-3 healers were doing cross-healing in arena, you could not take them down. 

Quite supid I must say. ANet give you a choice. Use it. Don't complain.

thats why we cant find skilled players anymore in wow. thats why not even 10% of the players cant complete raids in hc mode. all skilled players are in gw2 anymore ! pls come and help us sometime. give us your lights and teach us the right way.

if you want the cruel reality: dungeons in gw2 SUCKS big time. either it concerns mechanics, loot or whatever, they just suck. i have played eq1-2 / wow / rift / swtor / warr and mmo's in general more than 12 years. but man, this is the worst dungeons i ever met in a game. i dont say that the game sucks, but dungeons sure do!

I did the Sorrow's Embrace dungeon yesterday. What sucks to me is the fact that there's no sense of real loss since the dungeon doors don't close. Basically, there's no such thing as getting wiped by a boss, if you have one person alive you can still come back and finish the fight with the boss. Apart from that, the dungeons are alright if you know what you're doing.

For sorrow's embrace all you need is for every class that comes to the dungeon to bring something that can be used to defend against projectiles and you'll have an easy time in the dungeon but getting wiped there doesn't feel like a real loss at all.

Originally posted by aRtFuLThinG

Originally posted by Aerowyn
gotta learn combo fields.. if you get a group together that knows how to utliize combo fields well dungeons can be a blast

Yeap combo fields is a massive mechanic in this game.

Combo fields can heal or protect the crap out of the players. Blindness and confusion is also a massive mechanic that got overlooked by many players because blindness actually allows for avoidance tanking as the mobs can not hit you when blinded. The condition removal effects from healing combo fields also saves lives. Poison and fire fields can effectively double your damage because of the DoTs. Invis from smoke fields - enough said.

These are big mechanic because in this game, even most bosses can not avoid them.

I can tell a lot of players don't even use them by playing side by side with them.

They are a big deal. Probably a bigger deal than what you traits and what skills you have ready (I don't feel traits changes a fight much and are a lot more straightforward in choices, comparison).

I have an entire build/setup focused on blind and vulnerability - blind to keep me alive and vulnerability to make them dead.

You can't just stack power and stack HP/defense and hope you can survive in GW2, it's taken me a while to REALLY just "start" to understand how it all works.

Between dodge, blind (which is pretty much a block) and block and buffs like protection and regeneration and debuffs like burning and vulnerability... and utilities/traits to help me manage conditions on myself, I am pretty much untouchable in PvE.

But yeah, Fire and Poison fields especially are amazing amounts of damage most players just ignore or are oblivious too. Light fields are great for protection/cleansing team skills.

Snares and immobilized and slows and wards are invaluable for the 3-4 seconds you can keep a mob in check until your next dodge/blind/block etc. is available.

I think SO many people are just so used to having healers cover for their mistakes.

Whoever said it earlier was right - dedicated healers and tanks are really just for covering the mistakes of bad DPS players, and of course unavoidable damage (dmg auras, mass AoE's etc.) but that is a much different school of thought for encounter design.

I think people who played Tanks/Healers in other MMOs, especially older MMOs where tanking/healing was actually challenging and took skill - those people are picking up how to play GW2 dungeons a whole lot better because they are used to having responsibility and people rely'ing on them.

I bet it's all the DPS players who never tanked/healed or only ever tank/healed during the "easy" cycles of tank/healing in modern MMOs (like WoW during WOTLK or now with zero-threat)