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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » The anonymity of Guild Wars 2 and the degredation of social MMO's

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82 posts found
  chryses

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/29/07
Posts: 1453

9/24/12 12:40:43 AM#41
Originally posted by TheIronLegion

Man, are people still blaming the game for social interactions? I'm lonely it must not be my fault.

All synics aside...You were going about the whole 'joining a guild' thing the wrong way. Never join guilds that are just whispering random people. If they're doing that it means theyre desperate for members(or just starting and trying to get members). I would search the official forums and the forums here for a guild It seems to be the best way of going about it.

And as many have preached time and time again. The game isn't just going to hand you friends on a silver platter...you have to go talk to people. If you finish a DE start talking to people that are there...you'd be surprised how many people actually don't mind just stopping and chatting. Some will invite you to go with them and explore or knock out some tough objectives.

If you feel alone, it's because you are alone. The only remedy for this, however, is to engage in conversation of your own free will. The game will not chain people to the floor and make them talk to you.

Most people are already in groups with friends and chatting in either party chat or on skype/ts/Vent/mumble.

You also seem a bit lazy. You want the game to find your guild for you...(it's like people that want the government to find them a job). You want to be able to push a button and have it give you a spreadsheet of every guild, its stats, what it does, etc etc. That's pure laziness. That and it doesn't speak for the integrity of the guild. Theres somethign to be said about just whispering a guild leader or officer and asking for information. You'll generally get a more straight forward answer.

I am so tempted to just cut and paste this comment to every single post about MMO's being lonely or anti sociable.  Well said.

I don't group up much or join guilds because I am a grumpy bastard and can't be arsed talking when my game time is limited.  Then again, maybe I just don't try and find the right guild for me....damn it, now I just feel sad.

 

  austriacus

Novice Member

Joined: 8/28/07
Posts: 626

9/24/12 12:47:47 AM#42
Originally posted by Karteli
Originally posted by Scalpless
You should look for a good guild on a forum. The ones that accept anyone and spam in-game chat tend to suck.

Aye.

 

Just as an anecdotal example in WoW .. I would or get chatty with other players and once I determined they were friendly and in the same game mind-set as me, I could do a /who on their entire guild to see if it was high levels or just a bunch of lowbies.  If they were high level I might join them, or if they were all lower than us, then I might ask the person if they want to join another guild together, or start one.

 

There is something about open knowledge and available information that adds to a games depth and complexity for me.   I guess. If everything is hidden, it doesn't feel like I'm getting the most out of a particular game, in this case GW2.

 

I had trouble inspecting other players too .. is this also not possible?

Join a bunch of guilds, you can be in more than one. Chose to represent them. You can then see all the levels of the people online and where they are. If you dont like them, leave.

Doesnt seem to have anything hidden to me.

  Karteli

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/09/12
Posts: 2704

 
OP  9/24/12 12:47:50 AM#43
Originally posted by TheIronLegion

< SNIP >

You also seem a bit lazy. You want the game to find your guild for you...(it's like people that want the government to find them a job). You want to be able to push a button and have it give you a spreadsheet of every guild, its stats, what it does, etc etc. That's pure laziness. That and it doesn't speak for the integrity of the guild. Theres somethign to be said about just whispering a guild leader or officer and asking for information. You'll generally get a more straight forward answer.

Really, wow.  No, I would like to have all the data laid out for me, but that does not make me or anyone like me lazy.

 

And how is any guild supposed to know anything about the strength of another guild?  Through forums?  This would make them non-lazy?  Just because the game doesn't support in game features?

 

Outside of external sites, there is no way to learn about a guild internally.  You can't even do a /who on a guild to see how many players they have.  This is laziness on the developers part.

 

Another part of the initial complaint was I can't even do a /who for a zone I'm in, did you forget that part?  I wan't to check for familiar names.  I'd like to see if there is enough people in the zone to take out zone objectives, for instance (in the upper tiers).  But most importantly, familiar names - people I recognize and can start sending tells to, so we can group.

 

Everything is so damn anonymous as it is.  In game tools are non-existant for searching for other players and seeing where others are playing.

Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  TheIronLegion

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/06/12
Posts: 270

Act with wisdom, but act.

9/24/12 12:52:26 AM#44
Originally posted by Karteli
Originally posted by TheIronLegion

< SNIP >

You also seem a bit lazy. You want the game to find your guild for you...(it's like people that want the government to find them a job). You want to be able to push a button and have it give you a spreadsheet of every guild, its stats, what it does, etc etc. That's pure laziness. That and it doesn't speak for the integrity of the guild. Theres somethign to be said about just whispering a guild leader or officer and asking for information. You'll generally get a more straight forward answer.

Really, wow.  No, I would like to have all the data laid out for me, but that does not make me or anyone like me lazy.

 

And how is any guild supposed to know anything about the strength of another guild?  Through forums?  This would make them non-lazy?  Just because the game doesn't support in game features?

 

Outside of external sites, there is no way to learn about a guild internally.  You can't even do a /who on a guild to see how many players they have.  This is laziness on the developers part.

 

Another part of the initial complaint was I can't even do a /who for a zone I'm in, did you forget that part?  I wan't to check for familiar names.  I'd like to see if there is enough people in the zone to take out zone objectives, for instance (in the upper tiers).

Yup, I called you lazy, because you refuse to search for something on your own. You want the game to hand you every little thing. Forums have always been a solid method for finding a guild. They have their official guild sites listed there and often times have a guild roster that displays alot of info about the players there. They generally have bios for the officers and the leader too.

Also, as someone has already mentioned; You can join multiple guilds and choose which one you want to represent. So you don't have to tie yourself down to one single guild. You can join a few...try them all out and just leave the ones you don't like. So what if you cant stalk every person in the zone with your magical /who...there are still plenty of ways to do what you want to do.

  Karteli

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/09/12
Posts: 2704

 
OP  9/24/12 1:04:14 AM#45
Originally posted by TheIronLegion
Originally posted by Karteli
Originally posted by TheIronLegion

< SNIP >

You also seem a bit lazy. You want the game to find your guild for you...(it's like people that want the government to find them a job). You want to be able to push a button and have it give you a spreadsheet of every guild, its stats, what it does, etc etc. That's pure laziness. That and it doesn't speak for the integrity of the guild. Theres somethign to be said about just whispering a guild leader or officer and asking for information. You'll generally get a more straight forward answer.

Really, wow.  No, I would like to have all the data laid out for me, but that does not make me or anyone like me lazy.

 

And how is any guild supposed to know anything about the strength of another guild?  Through forums?  This would make them non-lazy?  Just because the game doesn't support in game features?

 

Outside of external sites, there is no way to learn about a guild internally.  You can't even do a /who on a guild to see how many players they have.  This is laziness on the developers part.

 

Another part of the initial complaint was I can't even do a /who for a zone I'm in, did you forget that part?  I wan't to check for familiar names.  I'd like to see if there is enough people in the zone to take out zone objectives, for instance (in the upper tiers).

Yup, I called you lazy, because you refuse to search for something on your own. You want the game to hand you every little thing. Forums have always been a solid method for finding a guild. They have their official guild sites listed there and often times have a guild roster that displays alot of info about the players there. They generally have bios for the officers and the leader too.

Also, as someone has already mentioned; You can join multiple guilds and choose which one you want to represent. So you don't have to tie yourself down to one single guild. You can join a few...try them all out and just leave the ones you don't like. So what if you cant stalk every person in the zone with your magical /who...there are still plenty of ways to do what you want to do.

You are simply rude.  I never asked the game to hand me every little thing.  I never asked for some magical auto guild placement; I'll find my own guild, thank you.  What I asked for was in-game support tools to facilitate the means to my end, which you are vehement with white knighting ArenaNet for whatever purpose.

 

Not everyone is like me, and not everyone is like you.  I stated my reasons and desires already, no need to go further.

 

To the blue part, "still plenty of ways to do what you want to do", were you again referring to going to outside forums, or was there something ingame that wasn't discussed?

Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  Loktofeit

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12406

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ArcheAge, and Combat Arms

9/24/12 1:14:00 AM#46
Originally posted by Karteli
Originally posted by Loktofeit

Word.  The OP misses /who and has decided the game is lacking in social features as a result of that, ignoring the existing social tools at his disposal.

/WHO helps in class-based games. /map and just going to the location (fast travel aids in this) replace that in an MMO where level (thus map) is about the only restriction to finding others. Even then, level scaling fixes that, too.

"So how can I actually find a guild that does stuff?  A guild that goes places I want to go?"

Castillle has your answer right up there.

These existing social tools would be ... ?  If you are talking about tells/whispers and grouping then you missed the big picture.  If you are suggesting that players should go to outside sites for social content, then, you are only confirming that GW2 has lacking social tools built into it.  Anything else you rambled on about is not social tools (though nice features in GW2 none-the-less).

I guess I missed the big picture. I've been too busy enjoying my guild, chatting with others ingame and getting involved in RP here and there to be concerned with 'the big picture.'

Do you want /who and LFG tools or do you want a social MMO? The former is just grouping tools and the latter is on you. Yes, Kartelli, you'll have to actually talk to people and interact... it's called being social.

Not that you'll accept any reply other than "Yeah, they need to shape it up! Harumph!" but I figured I'd try.

 

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  Loktofeit

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12406

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ArcheAge, and Combat Arms

9/24/12 1:15:26 AM#47
Originally posted by austriacus
Originally posted by Karteli
Originally posted by Scalpless
You should look for a good guild on a forum. The ones that accept anyone and spam in-game chat tend to suck.

Aye.

Just as an anecdotal example in WoW .. I would or get chatty with other players and once I determined they were friendly and in the same game mind-set as me, I could do a /who on their entire guild to see if it was high levels or just a bunch of lowbies.  If they were high level I might join them, or if they were all lower than us, then I might ask the person if they want to join another guild together, or start one.

There is something about open knowledge and available information that adds to a games depth and complexity for me.   I guess. If everything is hidden, it doesn't feel like I'm getting the most out of a particular game, in this case GW2.

I had trouble inspecting other players too .. is this also not possible?

Join a bunch of guilds, you can be in more than one. Chose to represent them. You can then see all the levels of the people online and where they are. If you dont like them, leave.

Doesnt seem to have anything hidden to me.

   ^--- some good advice there.

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  TheIronLegion

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/06/12
Posts: 270

Act with wisdom, but act.

9/24/12 2:28:17 AM#48
Originally posted by Karteli
Originally posted by TheIronLegion
Originally posted by Karteli
Originally posted by TheIronLegion

< SNIP >

You also seem a bit lazy. You want the game to find your guild for you...(it's like people that want the government to find them a job). You want to be able to push a button and have it give you a spreadsheet of every guild, its stats, what it does, etc etc. That's pure laziness. That and it doesn't speak for the integrity of the guild. Theres somethign to be said about just whispering a guild leader or officer and asking for information. You'll generally get a more straight forward answer.

Really, wow.  No, I would like to have all the data laid out for me, but that does not make me or anyone like me lazy.

 

And how is any guild supposed to know anything about the strength of another guild?  Through forums?  This would make them non-lazy?  Just because the game doesn't support in game features?

 

Outside of external sites, there is no way to learn about a guild internally.  You can't even do a /who on a guild to see how many players they have.  This is laziness on the developers part.

 

Another part of the initial complaint was I can't even do a /who for a zone I'm in, did you forget that part?  I wan't to check for familiar names.  I'd like to see if there is enough people in the zone to take out zone objectives, for instance (in the upper tiers).

Yup, I called you lazy, because you refuse to search for something on your own. You want the game to hand you every little thing. Forums have always been a solid method for finding a guild. They have their official guild sites listed there and often times have a guild roster that displays alot of info about the players there. They generally have bios for the officers and the leader too.

Also, as someone has already mentioned; You can join multiple guilds and choose which one you want to represent. So you don't have to tie yourself down to one single guild. You can join a few...try them all out and just leave the ones you don't like. So what if you cant stalk every person in the zone with your magical /who...there are still plenty of ways to do what you want to do.

You are simply rude.  I never asked the game to hand me every little thing.  I never asked for some magical auto guild placement; I'll find my own guild, thank you.  What I asked for was in-game support tools to facilitate the means to my end, which you are vehement with white knighting ArenaNet for whatever purpose.

 

Not everyone is like me, and not everyone is like you.  I stated my reasons and desires already, no need to go further.

 

To the blue part, "still plenty of ways to do what you want to do", were you again referring to going to outside forums, or was there something ingame that wasn't discussed?

Rude, or truthful? I personally don't care. I guess that's a matter of opinion. You never asked for things to be handed to you, but it's what you want none the less. and to the 'blue part' there are several social avenues at your disposal using them is only to your benefit. I'm not "white-knighting" anything or anyone so don't go placing phrases in my mouth. I am simply pointing out that there are other means to your end.

  Vesavius

Old School

Joined: 3/08/04
Posts: 7493

Players come for the game, but they stay for the people- Most Devs have forgotten this.

9/24/12 3:53:18 AM#49
Originally posted by TheIronLegion

Man, are people still blaming the game for social interactions? I'm lonely it must not be my fault.

 

The fact remains, community is built or destroyed by core game design in MMORPGs and the tools it offers to facilitate it.

A solo focused, self despendent, fast action game with no social tools will by definition have a harder time building a meaningful community then a group focused, inter dependent, slower tactical game with robust tools.

Sure people have a responsibility to themselves to engage, but people (esp gamers!!) on the whole follow the path of least resistance. They simply won't work extra hard to build community.

 

 

Take a look at the robust guild finding tools a game like EQ2 offers. They are excellent. The game dosen't 'do everything for you', but it opens the doors for you to meet other players who want to do the same things and share the same mindset.

 

  Zecktorin

Novice Member

Joined: 11/23/11
Posts: 235

9/24/12 5:54:03 AM#50
Originally posted by Karteli
Originally posted by Zecktorin
Originally posted by Karteli
Originally posted by Zecktorin

Lol that is a lie about 500 people being on a sever on SWTOR for it to be heavy. The population number you see is per phase.... I learned this the other night by switching phases. population on corcusant went from 201 to 10 in like 1 second after I loaded the phase. Each phase holds about 250 players and last night there were 2 full phases and 1 phase with 230 players on the republic station alone. Don't lie with your hate.

Not really .. 500 people is heavy in SWTOR.  There might be another faction to consider, but nobody has real contact with them anyways outside of instanced PVP so it doesn't matter.  Most of the people are on the fleet, yes. So 1000 on a server, 500 per faction is heavy.  Pretty lame.

from what im actually seeing in game right now.... there are over 1500 people on each faction counting the fleets and capital worlds alone right now this very second. How are you gonna tell me when I see it right now in front of my eyes. There are many things people group up for on the game. I dont think me and you played the same game, but im not here to argue lets stay on topic.

It is always impressive to see 1500 people in front of your own eyes.  What Server, How are you collecting this information?  What is the population usage of this server - This is a "Full" server? You leave so many holes when you give these details.

 

I gave you a specific of an EA BioWare SWTOR server, and you give me vague generalizations that have no connotation to server, population listing, or how you collect this data. Puh-lease.  Shills do that on the SWTOR forums all the time to tell complainers that their light server in fact had 3 instances of 250 people on the fleet last night, even though nobody saw it.

 

Nope my server was just heavy and we had multiple guild members in different instances. Again still calling your lie lol. The Shadowlands is the name of the server. Hop in on the trial and see for yourself if you dont beleive me bro.  Lets go back to talking about Gw2 and how Anet can update it to make it a better game. We are not here to talk about star wars. You just stated a lie and I corrected you. You dont hate on a game with lies. None of the servers were light during the time I checked it. 3 were standard pop, 2 were heavy, and the rest were very heavy. Euopean servers were light but they always are during American primetime. Their servers tend to be full during their primetime. SWTOR isn't going anywhere and neither is GW2 its good enough to stand up and be a good game. I enjoy both games for different reason. Both games are different styles and each attract their fans.

I love you tho <3

  eldaris

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/21/06
Posts: 340

9/24/12 6:26:28 AM#51

I agree with OP and I think the game should made it easier to find guilds in game and make a /who command available but it should be eq2 model not wow which was in my opinion inferior to EQ2 way of doing things.Not only you could open a window to see which guild recruit and what type of players they want,you could be anonymous or in a rp mode,when a guild gained a lv or when a player got a very good weapon you got messages in chat which was better too.Too bad SOE decided to sell their european players to prosieben.Searching guilds on google is for "hardcores" who like a guild which acts like a corporation etc not for most people who play a game casually and for fun.

  MightyPit

Novice Member

Joined: 11/21/02
Posts: 88

9/24/12 6:53:39 AM#52

I don't share the opinion of the OP that ArenaNet restrict the search to hide the numbers.

ArenaNet goes different paths in many ways, and so here too. That you can join multiple guilds the same time is afaik unique to the whole genre. I as a guild leader do not like that. I would like to know that all my sheeps are under the same (my) flag. However, I can make sure of thata by looking who is representing my guild.

I think that is simply not neccessary to have a /who command. You want to know if your friend is online? Add him to the contacts, either by alt name or account name, and you get notified when he is online and where.

If you do not want that other see if you are online, you can switch to invisible.

Any other purpose for the /who command is a missuse.

Why do you want to know exactly who much player are on a specific server? There is no need for absolute numbers. High population means, there are more people than on middle or low pop servers.

You want to know more about a specific guild? Ask a member about the head of the guild and he will gladly send you to him. Ask him your questions and he will answer them honestly. If not, you are always able to leave the guild when you find out that the really active guild consists of two players..

It takes always time to make new friends, but it's worth it. A good guild is not defined by the average level of the members, nor by the guild perks or the earned influence.

A good guild is defined by the willingness of the members to help each other. By the number of corporate activities. By the fun all the members have, even when a dungeon run gets a desaster. By the communication between the members by chat or voicetool.

You look for other players to bring you faster forward? Wrong motivation

You look for people to enjoy a great game together and making new friends? Best motivation. Head on! :)

MMO's played so far:
UO,EQ,DAOC,EQ2,GW,ROM,WOW,WAR,AOC,LOTRO,RIFT,TSW,GW2,POE
Looking forward to: Camelot Unchained, Star Citizen

  Thane

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/14/03
Posts: 1968

I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar.

9/24/12 6:56:03 AM#53

@OPS:

because you dont know how to find a guild, GW2 is faulty? i like that logic. therefor, because i can't fly an airbus, it's design is shit too! :)

totaly my argumentation, i like that :)

"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

  emperorwings

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/25/06
Posts: 1425

9/24/12 6:58:07 AM#54
Need open dungeons where you don't need an official group where you get credit by just being there and causing damage then there wouldn't be any need for anyone other than yourself unless it's for co ordinated pvp

This isn't a signature, you just think it is.

  PieRad

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/14/08
Posts: 1169

9/24/12 7:46:57 AM#55

Funny how people are saying they want their character to have privacy.. Cause that is what you're saying, an Armory has nothing to do with your personal privacy, no infomation about you can be gathered there, except a guesstimate of how long or how much you've played the game.

 

They should add /who to all games, they should add /inspect (with an option for people to not allow inspection), because some people like to inspect that badass standing in town and admire his gear.

 

You should only be allowed to join one guild, it makes you choose who you want to be around wisely, and feel a sense of pride in your name.

 

There should be incentives to team up, team up with guildies, but also with randoms, 2% increase in rewards per member in your group, with the 2% from yourself only kicking in when you're atleast 2 in the group.

 

Raids aren't the evil in these games, there should be encounters which is designed for organized groups, it gives people a sense of community, and a sense of being part of something, and as a bonus, that tiny hope that something awesome will drop for you or one of your guildies.

 

And also, there should be extremly hard achievements in game, I'm not talking kill 100.000 rats, +10 achievement points here, I'm talking content that is so hard that the 99% will never see it.. If only just 1 raid.. This gives the hardcores something to do for a long time, and something other players can aspire to become.

  Loktofeit

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12406

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ArcheAge, and Combat Arms

9/24/12 8:14:11 AM#56
Originally posted by Vesavius

Take a look at the robust guild finding tools a game like EQ2 offers. They are excellent. The game dosen't 'do everything for you', but it opens the doors for you to meet other players who want to do the same things and share the same mindset.

...to meet other players that want to kill the same crap in the same place as you.

"Do the same things" only applies because there is no reason to band together to do anything other than kill crap.

"Share the same mindset" would be shearly by accident at best. I can't begin to guess how you would assess such a thing unless you are keeping all 'mindsets" within a small sphere of varying degrees of "kill crap"

 

Great tools for grouping in EQ2. Those tool shave nothing to do with the social aspect of the game - they just put people with solo goals that have to be reached in groups into groups.

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  ennymith

Novice Member

Joined: 5/03/09
Posts: 116

9/24/12 8:20:55 AM#57
Originally posted by TheIronLegion I would search the official forums and the forums here for a guild It seems to be the best way of going about it.

And as many have preached time and time again. The game isn't just going to hand you friends on a silver platter...you have to go talk to people. If you finish a DE start talking to people that are there...you'd be surprised how many people actually don't mind just stopping and chatting.

What the OP and the rest of us who can see the naked king has no social clothes, have done is exactly what you suggest, and we have found the results wanting.  We know the drill.  It does not work in GW2.

Find working guilds via forums, good luck.  How do you judge one any different for others, or gauge which ones actually are  active from forum posts?  Tried it, and the results were the same old, we have x members, but in reality its Bobby and his two best friends doing what they want.

Talking in game?  Number of conversations resulting from starting chat locally after an event = 0. 

Anet wrote the social aspect of this game off back when it was in the design phase.  No team finder, stunted guild sizes are just the tip of the iceberg.  Lack of social in games tools like inspecting other players gear, /who, etc. the list goes on...

GW2, after 5 years of hype, turns out to be just another Asian end game cash shop grinder. Now that sales have dropped off, F2P can't be far off.

  dageeza

Novice Member

Joined: 8/14/04
Posts: 580

9/24/12 8:20:57 AM#58

I play with a bunch of RL friends in whatever game i am playing otherwise any game feels like its a solo expedition to me..

Wasting hours in chat seeking an online buddy so as to enjoy a game doesnt constitute "social" to me it rather says the opposite..

Playing GW2..

  GeezerGamer

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 5258

9/24/12 8:21:53 AM#59

I think the breakdown has a lot to do with the fact that traditionally, it was guilds that accomplished the big things in MMOs. You as the individual joind the guild and participated. You were there to serve and enhance the guild along with others, and things got done.

In GW2, it the other way around. Guidls are there to serve and be used by the individual player. You goin guilds in GW2 to get soemthing out of it personally. And it's further fostering htis indipendant gameplay making GW2 feel more and more like a single player game but online.

It's the sad state of the genre. The next big title has as many threads discussing issues with it's business model than issues with the game itself.

  Lienhart

Novice Member

Joined: 5/21/07
Posts: 673

9/24/12 8:26:23 AM#60

Wow wow wow. I'm gonna jump on this and just go wtf.

What you are essentially saying is "I didn't bother joining a bunch of friends in real life on the same server or have gone out of the way to make friends on the server". And then you come here crying about it. Dude. =/

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