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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Lesbian Gay Bisexual Trans-sexual (LGBT) - why is this a bad thing for guild formation?

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118 posts found
  MortisRex

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/23/04
Posts: 367

9/21/12 7:41:35 AM#101
Originally posted by gotha
Originally posted by SaintPhilip
Originally posted by Karteli

We're all different, this much is clear.  But sometimes it's a hinderance, especially when it comes to forming a guild.

 

LGBT people want to form a guild exclusive to them, so what?  Why are so many opposed?  It doesn't affect them.

 

Wouldn't it help the community to gather like minded people together?

I can understand it-

Sexual Orientation and race and religion should not even be an issue with a Guild in any way shap[e or form.

Look, I cannot make a "Straights Only Guild" or a "Black Only Guild" and advertise it as such (obviously you can have anyone in your guild who you wish and could still make a Guild like such)- So whats good for the goose.

Its like Orwell said in Animal farm. "All Animals are equal but some Animals are MORE equal than others..." This is becopming the case. 

People play games to feel comfortable.  Normally gays have to keep a decent amount to themselves in the general public and when they play a game they want to be with a group they can relax with and not worry about blocking certain parts of their interest be cause the rest of the people are not like minded.  Given the number of half naked woman running around sexual orientation actually plays a large part in fantasy gaming so yes it is an issue.  You can pretend its not an issue but it will be for some high minded view of equality but it will be.

The issue with straight guilds is the fact most guilds on the outset are straight guilds.  The majority segmenting themselve from minority aspects of society normally blocks minorities from large parts of society.

This being said, please explain how the practice of excluding people from a group based on their sexual orientation is okay? I've been in many guilds, have had many gay friends in those guilds and I never saw anyone treat them as anything but equal. If your guildmates are excluding you from something because of your sexual orientation, it's really not that hard to find another guild that will accept you for who you are. The solution is not to turn around and imitate the bigots, the solution is to be a better person and lead by example.

  Eir_S

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/07/11
Posts: 4703

GW2 socialist.

9/21/12 7:44:55 AM#102
A Romney supporter must have reported the OP.
  Yamota

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/05/03
Posts: 6511

"I fight so you don't have to."

9/21/12 7:50:28 AM#103

What has sexual orientation to do with video games?

If you can have a gay only guild, does that mean you can have a straight only guild as well? Or white's only? Or men only?

  Aelious

Elite Member

Joined: 9/27/11
Posts: 2459

World > Quest Progression

9/21/12 8:09:07 AM#104
IMO:

Yes, a LGBT guild is fine... as is any other guild targetting a specific group of people. I would say that excluding people from it if they are not of said group is wrong though.

The issue with Blizzard six years ago was that they were trying to protect LGBTs and not recieve extra CS tickets doing it.
  User Deleted
9/21/12 8:11:30 AM#105
Originally posted by Karteli
Originally posted by maji
Originally posted by SaintPhilip

I can understand it-

Sexual Orientation and race and religion should not even be an issue with a Guild in any way shap[e or form.

Look, I cannot make a "Straights Only Guild" or a "Black Only Guild" and advertise it as such (obviously you can have anyone in your guild who you wish and could still make a Guild like such)- So whats good for the goose.

Its like Orwell said in Animal farm. "All Animals are equal but some Animals are MORE equal than others..." This is becopming the case. 

Well, but people can make "women only" guilds. Or "only 30+" guilds, and so on. What's the difference between that and a lgbt guild?

There are LGBT guilds though .. to my knowledge there aren't any 30+ only guilds.  Or Indian guilds, white, hispanic, negro ,etc.

There most certainly are guilds that fit all those descriptions. On WoW there was an african-american only guild, on other games I have played there were hispanic only guilds, women only guilds and many many many guilds have age requirements for its members.

While yes, it technically is reverse discrimination, these groups are all groups that are often the recipients of discrimination and like to relax in groups of people in the same situation. Until we reach a point where there is true equality in the world, these groups will continue to exist to support each other.

If you dont fit into any of these groups you should be thankful that you dont have to put up with the crap that they do on a day to day basis.

Also most of these GLBT groups are 'GLBT friendly'. Meaning they do not discriminate against heterosexual people, but rather they require than any heterosexuals that join are courteous and respectful to those within the GLBT community.

  mmoluva

Novice Member

Joined: 1/17/09
Posts: 306

9/21/12 8:14:22 AM#106
This type of thought pattern gains traction when the losing team also receives a trophy.

http://www.twitch.tv/hogg4life

  hardicon

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/23/10
Posts: 360

9/21/12 8:19:12 AM#107

why not just play the damn game instead of trying to draw attention to yourself like your doing with this post.  quite frankly something the homosexual community hasnt figured out is most straight people dont care one bit about them or  how they live their lives.  we just dont really want to hear about it.  if you stopped getting offended every time someone looked at you wrong or made a homo comment most people would ignore you and you could probably have sex in the streets just like straight people do and get arrested by the cops. 

 

it annoys people when you get on tv and turn everything into a woe is me pity party because someone like blake shelton made a joke on twitter or someone calls you a carpet muncher.  you open yourself up to ridicule when you do things like that and it makes it fun for people like me to annoy you if I know I can. 

 

most people dont want to hear about real world crap in our video games, I would prefer to not even have to hear from about 90 percent of the game population, just my guild.  make whatever guild you want for all I care but mainly shut up about it.

I am pretty sure there would be a huge uproar is someone made a guild called nga, no gays allowed.  or kkk, krazy kooky krackers.  see how people could get offended by that.  yeah so leave race, sex, everything else out of the game. 

btw those were just examples not my personal beliefs, dont get in a uproar about it.

  Bruise187

Novice Member

Joined: 1/17/06
Posts: 357

AC2..Greatest game ever to be closed. They did it dirty.

9/21/12 8:19:45 AM#108
Cant the mods just lock this thread back in the closet and let it die? I dont need white or gays, blacks or kids, old people,  young people in my MMOs. I dont care what you are I just want players or people in the game. I dont care to know you personally

How many delicate flowers have you met in Counterstrike?

I'm not your friend.

I got a case of beer and a chainsaw waiting for me at home after work.

  mastersomrat

Novice Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 369

9/21/12 8:20:57 AM#109
Bottom line.  Because people are scared.
  karmath

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/24/05
Posts: 843

9/21/12 8:23:43 AM#110
Originally posted by Karteli

We're all different, this much is clear.  But sometimes it's a hinderance, especially when it comes to forming a guild.

 

LGBT people want to form a guild exclusive to them, so what?  Why are so many opposed?  It doesn't affect them.

 

Wouldn't it help the community to gather like minded people together?

 

Just as a side note:

Wow at one time restricted and banned a player for advertising a LGBT guild, several years ago.  The uprise was immense, and Blizzard was faced with a cival lawsuit.  Blizzard appologized and "allowed" LGBT friendly guilds. http://kotaku.com/159536/blizzards-reaction-to-gay-guilds-an-unfortunate-mistake

Discrimination works both ways.

  User Deleted
9/21/12 8:32:12 AM#111
Originally posted by Yamota

What has sexual orientation to do with video games?

If you can have a gay only guild, does that mean you can have a straight only guild as well? Or white's only? Or men only?

your argument is null i hope you know because you can already have the straight while men guilds  without the companies of these games getting political. It doesn't happen that way on the other side of the coin for minorities.

  User Deleted
9/21/12 8:36:23 AM#112
Originally posted by Elsabolts
Originally posted by Karteli

We're all different, this much is clear.  But sometimes it's a hinderance, especially when it comes to forming a guild.

 

LGBT people want to form a guild exclusive to them, so what?  Why are so many opposed?  It doesn't affect them.

 

Wouldn't it help the community to gather like minded people together?

 

Just as a side note:

Wow at one time restricted and banned a player for advertising a LGBT guild, several years ago.  The uprise was immense, and Blizzard was faced with a cival lawsuit.  Blizzard appologized and "allowed" LGBT friendly guilds. http://kotaku.com/159536/blizzards-reaction-to-gay-guilds-an-unfortunate-mistake

When I see you folks marching in the streets of Tehran Iran, I might pay alittle more attention. Acorrding to there leader ship there are no Sodimites in Iran.

Unless you include the houseboys they purchase as slaves legally to "take care" of the males in the family called "bacha bereesh". 

Learning is fun :)

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17290

9/21/12 8:37:28 AM#113

my thought is whatever guild you want to make you can make.

All women?

All Japanese?

70+

People who collect Hummel figuriens?

 

it's all good. As long as the members are clear when they join I would suspect then that anyone joining is joining "because" of the requirments.

If someone wants a guild that argues politics or only republicans or people who health problems or "whatever" then that's the guild they should have.

People get so offended if a group creates stipulations that "keep them out"

Why would you want to be in a group that's not in sync with who you are? You would be bored out of your mind. Or uncomfortable or angry or just "one of these things is not like the other".

  User Deleted
9/21/12 8:40:14 AM#114
Originally posted by hardicon

why not just play the damn game instead of trying to draw attention to yourself like your doing with this post.  quite frankly something the homosexual community hasnt figured out is most straight people dont care one bit about them or  how they live their lives.  we just dont really want to hear about it.  if you stopped getting offended every time someone looked at you wrong or made a homo comment most people would ignore you and you could probably have sex in the streets just like straight people do and get arrested by the cops. 

Let me start from your final sentence here. I got arrested and am still in danger of, for simply holding my bf's hand in public. So there's a BIIIIIG difference between what straight people can get away with.

Secondly, the only time "my kind" gets uppity is when we are denied what the ostrich heads take for granted everyday.

Same goes in the gaming community.

Most likely, what happened is once again a gaming company stepped too far and impeded the rights of individuals by becoming political in their dealings with the public and thus threads like this one are born.

  Vesavius

Old School

Joined: 3/08/04
Posts: 7258

Players come for the game, but they stay for the people- Most Devs have forgotten this.

9/21/12 8:40:30 AM#115
Originally posted by mastersomrat
Bottom line.  Because people are scared.

 

You mean that the LGBTs are 'scared', or that everyone else is 'scared'. You are unclear.

But if you mean everyone else is 'scared'... Tosh. The overriding sentiment in this thread is 'we couldn't care less about your orientation', not fear.

 

  Creslin321

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 5424

9/21/12 8:41:34 AM#116

A lot of you guys need to lay off of these LGBT players.  It's pretty easy to understand why they would want to form their own guild if you try to put yourself in their shoes.  I mean, just think about it:

1.  The discrimination of gay people is so accepted in our current society that it is actively spoken about in the news frequently, and it's still considered acceptable in many communities to pubicly speak out against gay people, and treat their homosexuality as a disease.

2.  The word "gay" is used a slang word for "something I hate," especially by the youth.  I mean, how would you feel if you're gay, and you're  talking on vent with your guild, and they constantly use a word that describes what you are to talk about things they hate?  I'm pretty sure this would be upsetting.  Would it seem right to you to refer to things you hate as "black?"  No, it wouldn't...why is it okay to use "gay" for the same reason?

3.  The internet grants anonymity to people, and many folks on the internet gaming are young, which means they are VERY likely to just speak their mind and all their prejudices will come out.

Add all these together, and the result is that online gaming is a pretty hostile environment for LGBT people.

Can you blame them for wanting to stick together so that they don't have to deal with people reminding them that they should be hated for what they are every 10 minutes?

Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  Najai

Novice Member

Joined: 1/22/05
Posts: 2

9/21/12 8:45:43 AM#117
Originally posted by Karteli

We're all different, this much is clear.  But sometimes it's a hinderance, especially when it comes to forming a guild.

 

LGBT people want to form a guild exclusive to them, so what?  Why are so many opposed?  It doesn't affect them.

 

Wouldn't it help the community to gather like minded people together?

 

Just as a side note:

Wow at one time restricted and banned a player for advertising a LGBT guild, several years ago.  The uprise was immense, and Blizzard was faced with a cival lawsuit.  Blizzard appologized and "allowed" LGBT friendly guilds. http://kotaku.com/159536/blizzards-reaction-to-gay-guilds-an-unfortunate-mistake

As far as I know the article only talks about LGBT-friendly guilds and Blizzard allowing them to advertise and recruit as such. Some people posting seem to be misinformed since being friendly to some demograph doesn't mean it's exclusive to LGBT community only - it stands for a guild that doesn't discriminate it's members based on sexuality (and hopefully any other trait they might have). LGBT-friendly guilds just underline that they have members from all walks of life, they are friendly towards minorities and expect certain maturity among its players.

 

What I'd also like to point out is that LGBT is a collective term used for a vastly diverse set of non-heterosexual / cisgender identity-based cultures.

 

I do agree that exclusive LGBT-only guilds should be prohibited the same way as guilds exclusive to a certain race are for example. The should be no double standards.

  Amana

MMORPG.COM Staff

Joined: 1/03/11
Posts: 2374

9/21/12 3:09:57 PM#118
This thread topic is locked mainly because we're ended real life ethical/moral/political type content in these forums as these posts often go off the rails into arguments and personal attacks. This topic and related ones aren't bad in themselves, but aubject to the above.

To give feedback on moderation, contact community@mmorpg.com

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