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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

PvP  » GW2 separates real PvPers from the wannabes

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  User Deleted
9/20/12 5:42:15 PM#61


Originally posted by VirusDancer

Originally posted by Foomerang  

Originally posted by VirusDancer

Originally posted by Foomerang Wondering what your credentials are in the esport arena. Won or placed in any tournaments? Or is all your pvp experience from in-game only.
Have to wonder how that matters?  It's funny how these threads always digress into things like this.  Hell, even I laughed to the point of tears initially at what it looked like the OP was saying - until I paused for a moment, read it again, and gave the OP the benefit of the doubt.   Different people prefer different types of PvP.  Odds are, they'll even look down on other types of PvP as they favor one over the others.  Personally, I tend to look down on esport PvP - I mean, it's fun to watch and all that - highly entertaining at times; but it's not the same as setting the alarm for 3 AM because some guild/alliance is coming to destroy your city - it's not getting the call at work, breaking out your notebook, and hoping you don't get fired as you log in to fight off somebody raiding your territory. That being said, it's kind of obvious that the OP's just talking about games that favor gear - and - those games are out there, no doubt about that.  Games where you can watch TV, eat a sandwich, all while fragging the Hell out of the undergeared folks around you... ...so I have to wonder what his credentials in the esport arena has to do with that in the least.  I mean, really...?
  Because of the topic title, he implies hes a real pvper. Imo, a real pvper does the tournament scene. So i was wanting to know if thats what he does.
It's a contextual post.  It's in the GW2 forums.  It's in the PvP subforum.  It's not in the Pub, General Gaming, etc.

In GW2, GW2 separates the real PvPers from the wannabes - is what he's saying, no?

I mean, sure - many of us got a chuckle out of the thread title alone - but if you look at it, take it in context... he's saying something pretty simple - it's more on even ground.  Pretty simple, eh?  It's not the guys rolling in sporting the best gear and rolling folks that don't stand a chance because they're near one-shotted because of the gear discrepancy (heh, though it is funny when you do that to somebody - I've actually felt guilty...it's like, DAYUM - WTF?).

It's not a case that GW2 separates the real PvPers from other games - it's a case that GW2 separates the real PvPers in GW2...

In a tournament system, folks are going to be geared near the same if not the same.  It's not like rolling folks that turned left when they should have turned right.  So if anything, he's saying that the GW2 PvP is more akin to that... which is something that you would likely agree with, no?  That real PvP folks can be separated from the wannabes - by not having the various outrageous advantages...but that it comes down more to the player's abilities and skills - right?

I mean, I still laugh each time I see that title...and I have to remind myself about the context; but the context is there and his post makes sense.  It appears that the majority of folks attacking him, would actually agree with him - if they just took a moment to consider the context of it all.  Doesn't mean I don't chuckle when I read the title though...



Ah i gotcha. That makes sense in that context. Sorry, im just used to gw2 posts trying to encapsulate the entire gaming industry all the time haha

  VirusDancer

Novice Member

Joined: 11/18/04
Posts: 3684

Heroes are about character - not gear.

9/20/12 5:47:58 PM#62
Originally posted by Foomerang

 

Ah i gotcha. That makes sense in that context. Sorry, im just used to gw2 posts trying to encapsulate the entire gaming industry all the time haha
 

Heh, no doubt - when I first saw the title; I came ready to post something knowing that I'd get a warning for it...lol.

I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?

Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%

  Random_mage

Novice Member

Joined: 8/15/08
Posts: 1161

9/21/12 5:53:00 PM#63
Wouldnt say this is the best way to pvp, or that the best pvpers are rewarded.
The best pvpers are the ones that are good no matter whats going on. The ones who kill you even after they started the quest. The real pvpers are playing ffa pvp

Currently playing Real Life..

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  TheHavok

Novice Member

Joined: 7/13/04
Posts: 2430

"Free crack and everybody gets laid."

9/23/12 5:42:33 PM#64
Originally posted by gessekai332

What i really like about this game is that people who are legitimately good at the game are rewarded. I would always get annoyed in other games when developers would try to dumb the game down WoW style and make it so PvE carebears can steamroll legit pvpers because they were faster at leveling or they bought overpowered gear with gold or cash. But in gw2  this isn't the case because even though there are slight differences in gear doesnt make bads into good players. My friend is lvl 10 in PvE(he just does sPvP all day) was rolling with me in WvW last night and we were smashing people to pieces (2v2, 2v3, and in zergs). He later remarked to me that he is surprised that that there are so many people who are high level but they just suck so much and die to stupid things. They are nothing to the people he encounters in sPvP even when gear and level is in their favor.

 

Valuable lesson #1 for GW2 PvP: You play PvP, you get good at PvP. You play PvE you die in PvP.

Valuable lesson #2 for GW2 PvP: Bads whine about new game mechanics they are not used to (underwater combat, downed state, no trinity). Good players know how to adapt and steamroll!! Don't like underwater combat? thats cool, have fun auto-losing Ruins!

 

I cannot express to you how refreshing it feels to log onto one of my lower lvl alts decked out in greens and smash lvl 80 players in exotics because they dont understand what condition-heavy metagame means.

You clearly haven't played WoW since Vanilla.

  GeezerGamer

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 4935

9/23/12 5:48:56 PM#65

I agree wiht OP.
It separates them through the queuing system. Those who are PVPing are the real PVPers, those in the queue, wannabe PVPing.

It's the sad state of the genre. The next big title has as many threads discussing issues with it's business model than issues with the game itself.

  daniel!!!

Novice Member

Joined: 12/04/04
Posts: 403

Thinking causes problems, Doing solves them

9/23/12 5:54:44 PM#66
i still do pve over pvp but still win in pvp ? am i just a chosen god then ? or is your post just trying to say you are and that if you want pvp to be your end game you are screwed ? 

  TheHavok

Novice Member

Joined: 7/13/04
Posts: 2430

"Free crack and everybody gets laid."

9/23/12 6:10:02 PM#67

Also Raid of the Capricorn is the least liked map.  Underwater fighting is a gimmick that even the top SPvP teams are saying they avoid.

Raid of the Capricorn MIGHT not be as bad, if there weren't sharks.  The fact that Anet implemented sharks is mind boggling.

  eAzydaman

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/21/07
Posts: 220

9/26/12 7:55:14 AM#68

Ofcourse OP is right. No other MMO comes close in terms of skill required to be really good at PVP. Vanilla AOC was pretty close, alot because of combo timings and active shields, took some time to be able to get all three shields on your back before and assassin put a backstab in ya :P

And ppl saying WOW PVP has anything to do with skill is just wrong, It's a hotkey MMO ffs, that will never require skill. In GW2 a well timed dodge can be the difference between life and death. Not to mention line of sight etc.

  Caliburn101

Novice Member

Joined: 3/30/11
Posts: 647

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." Albert Einstein

10/03/12 5:33:24 AM#69

Oh god I LOVE warriors in PvP.

He goes spinny bladey death, I go Death Shroud with 3 seconds of Retaliation traited and I come out of it with full hits and he's up s**t creek without a paddle. Fear, bleed, cripple, bleed, Plague Form blind/bleed.

.... goodbye warrior played by a 'one-button wonder' player.

Good warriors are of course a challenge - but most are played by the 'I-win-button' crowd and are straightforward opponents.

  LeegOfChldrn

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/11/11
Posts: 369

10/08/12 9:43:46 PM#70

Actually, GW2, like most MMORPG's, rewards overpowered character builds, higher levels, better gear, more play experience (not player skill experience, but knowledge about the metagame), and other non-player-skill based topics that are mostly contrived from CHARACTER skill.

 

If you don't believe me, then have a pro tournament winner play the default class setup and build, while a mediocre player (competant enough to play his own class well) play an overpowered tourny build.

I promise you, the pro will lose every time. Perhaps if the OP build was a newb, he'd win. Unfortunately, I said mediocre competant player, not a total newb.

 

Mediocre Competant Player + OP build > Best Player + Gimp Build (any build but a select few OP builds)

  Roin

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/12/03
Posts: 2888

10/08/12 10:00:31 PM#71
Originally posted by Fadedbomb
Originally posted by ThaneUlfgar
Originally posted by Fadedbomb
Originally posted by gessekai332
Originally posted by Fadedbomb

You're kidding right? Warrior, Thief, and Ranger are the three main classes i've PvP'ed with. I can face-roll people back-to-back-to-back by simply spamming 4 keys in almost any situation.

 

Rank 1 -> 9 sPvP with my Thief alone in a single day. Then 9 -> 16 with my Warrior the next two days (light playing), and 16 -> 21 with my Ranger.

 

The game is so terribly low requirement on skill, and more about spamming OP abilities than anything else.

 

 

If you want to see if you REALLY are skilled, try rolling a necromancer in sPvP and taking on 3 people at once. If you win every time then you're skilled, if you lose 1v1's even once then you know your answer.

 

In fact, i've seen more videos on youtube outlining how easy PvP is in GW2 to nausium causing levels it isn't even funny.

 

ps: I forgot to mention that I tried my most favorite class in any MMO, the Necromancer. Then, after reaching lvl 41 with the Necromancer I finally gave up. It is so horribly underpowered it isn't even funny, and i'm forced 100% into being condition damage or being useless.

I play engineer and guardian and i eat thieves for breakfast. I also have a warrior so i understand the ezmode fotm builds for that class. Whats your point? I've also seen necromancer and mesmers do awesome things. Warriors and thieves are one trick ponies that only bads die to (unless the warrior/thief is actually a good one).

I'm saying there is a limited amount of skill "required" for GW2 PvP. The game, quite frankly, isn't challenging when you only have such a miniscule hotbar & 60% of your attacks are auto-attacks. Just because you can dodge twice in a fight (generally) doesn't make it skilful. I'll grant you the fact it is far more "skilled" than WoW or SWTOR, but that's like saying my 12foot sword does 50x more damage than my 12.2ft sword!

I would say this is mostly true for most mmo games, but that's just me.

DAOC was a highly position, counter-attack, state-driven, strategy, pvp/RvR driven experience.

^ THIS many times over.  Nothing has really come close to DAOC in terms of combat, except maybe AC. (But in a slightly different way)  Playing a melee class in DAOC was for me beyond words for how much fun it was.

In War - Victory.
In Peace - Vigilance.
In Death - Sacrifice.

  LeegOfChldrn

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/11/11
Posts: 369

10/08/12 10:09:29 PM#72
Originally posted by Roin

DAOC was a highly position, counter-attack, state-driven, strategy, pvp/RvR driven experience.

^ THIS many times over.  Nothing has really come close to DAOC in terms of combat, except maybe AC. (But in a slightly different way)  Playing a melee class in DAOC was for me beyond words for how much fun it was.

This. Hands down.

 

I will never forget the fun of being an Albion Saracen Mercenary.

  Tamanous

Elite Member

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 1793

10/08/12 10:21:37 PM#73
Originally posted by LeegOfChldrn
Originally posted by Roin

DAOC was a highly position, counter-attack, state-driven, strategy, pvp/RvR driven experience.

^ THIS many times over.  Nothing has really come close to DAOC in terms of combat, except maybe AC. (But in a slightly different way)  Playing a melee class in DAOC was for me beyond words for how much fun it was.

This. Hands down.

 

I will never forget the fun of being an Albion Saracen Mercenary.

I find it amazing year to year that the best pvp I have ever taken part in has been in Asheron's Call from 1999 (you actually dodges magic and arrow attacks and even melee fighters had a wealth of magic to master. Your stance changed with each weapon as well) and DAoC where you had crazy combos typically based off positional attacks. Granted l loved the pve in AC and hated the pve in DAoC.

 

Pvp has evolved so little since then. Most games simply give you powers you can cast when ever and where ever with little reason to chain with others or advantage of position. This is why we keep getting faceroll games. One example to try is the Warden from Lotro. Play it and then compare to most classes in most games and suddenly you realise what is meant by having to think of what powers you choose.

You stay sassy!

  stygianapoth

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/14/12
Posts: 176

10/08/12 10:25:23 PM#74
Originally posted by gessekai332

What i really like about this game is that people who are legitimately good at the game are rewarded.

 

with what? different looking armor? I honestly do not play gw2 anymore because there is nothing to achieve. i don't give a crap about new armor. it doesn't do anything. there is just no progression. i am usually the best person on my team but it's just lame because there is no point.

  Caliburn101

Novice Member

Joined: 3/30/11
Posts: 647

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." Albert Einstein

10/09/12 4:50:08 AM#75
Originally posted by LeegOfChldrn

Actually, GW2, like most MMORPG's, rewards overpowered character builds, higher levels, better gear, more play experience (not player skill experience, but knowledge about the metagame), and other non-player-skill based topics that are mostly contrived from CHARACTER skill.

 

If you don't believe me, then have a pro tournament winner play the default class setup and build, while a mediocre player (competant enough to play his own class well) play an overpowered tourny build.

I promise you, the pro will lose every time. Perhaps if the OP build was a newb, he'd win. Unfortunately, I said mediocre competant player, not a total newb.

 

Mediocre Competant Player + OP build > Best Player + Gimp Build (any build but a select few OP builds)

This is a gross generalisation which is almost misleading.

Rewards good builds? - true, but then this is impossible to avoid in a game with builds so what is the point you are making here?

Rewards higher levels? - somewhat - but does more to level the playing field than nearly every MMO out there.

Rewards better gear? - really a pointless statement - gear is easily available so gear difference is almost a matter of choice once you have played the game for a few weeks.

Knowledge about the metagame? - a nebulous statement which as far as I can tell doesn't mean anything - perhaps you could clarify what you mean specifically?

"other non-player-skill based topics that are mostly contrived from CHARACTER skill." - again - please explain what you actually mean here.

As for your proposed 'Pro' versus 'also-ran' contest - I think you are wrong. Your asumptions are unsupportable - i.e. there is no 'default' build for any class.... and from my experience, everyone in sPvP runs a PvP optimal build. The Pro will, I assure you NOT lose every time because the right move at the right time (dodge, interrupt, misdirection etc.) can turn the tables significantly. I have seen itn many times, done it many times and had it done to me more often than I would like to admit.

My experience of sPvP is almost entirely at odds with yours, which seems strange to me because I don't think my experience has been unusual in any way.

In any case, I don't think your argument holds enough water on it's own merits.

Perhaps you can convince me otherwise?

 

  firefly2003

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/16/08
Posts: 2580

I miss you Star Wars Galaxies...:(

10/09/12 4:59:45 AM#76
Originally posted by Mari2k

come on,  we cant take you serious if you mention GW2 and "real PvP" in one sentence.

If you wanna see real PvP , visit the arenas in wow.

Play Darkfall, DAOC,  EVE Online, Planetside, DC Universe, then come back and tell me which pvp is better :p

  kostoslav

Novice Member

Joined: 5/27/09
Posts: 467

10/09/12 5:10:35 AM#77
I find gw2 wvw pvp to be fun coz it is not hard, and I can enjoy it. Worst pvp for me were pvp arena in WoW , it is too overwhelming and fast for my taste.
  Bad.dog

Elite Member

Joined: 5/20/10
Posts: 1101

10/19/12 3:48:55 PM#78
Originally posted by stygianapoth
Originally posted by gessekai332

What i really like about this game is that people who are legitimately good at the game are rewarded.

 

with what? different looking armor? I honestly do not play gw2 anymore because there is nothing to achieve. i don't give a crap about new armor. it doesn't do anything. there is just no progression. i am usually the best person on my team but it's just lame because there is no point.

Really ? You could achieve a reputation for being good ...I suppose that wouldn't matter to the pve for pvp armour crowd though

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

10/19/12 3:55:13 PM#79
It's on the better of games pvp wise, and vastly superior to wow and its various clones.

But...
Daoc, eve, planetside & perpetuum had better pvp.

No doubt DF too, but I didnt play it.

Don't agree with dcuo
  KingJiggly

Novice Member

Joined: 8/03/11
Posts: 807

Definition for innovation is below. Your welcome.

10/19/12 3:57:04 PM#80
Originally posted by Acidon
Originally posted by Volkon
Valuable lesson #3 for Guild Wars 2 PvP:   Eggs are used for cooking.

You beat me to it, again.

Haha! Quit telling yokes. 

 

 

... We doin egg puns right?

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/innovation

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