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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

PvP  » GW2 separates real PvPers from the wannabes

9 Pages « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 » Last Search
165 posts found
  User Deleted
9/20/12 3:54:24 PM#41
lulz
  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

9/20/12 3:55:27 PM#42
To clarify my agreeing with op.

That is in comparison to wow and other poopsock to win themepark games.

I do not think gw2 is more hardcore pvp than the likes of eve, perpetuum or darkfall

But I do think it is more so than wow, swtor et all. Because you can't grind gear to win, you cant macro it to hell. You have to think your tactics more with not having healbots and with coordinating combos to full effect.

Gw2 needs a ranked version of the pvp though.
  gessekai332

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/31/07
Posts: 852

 
OP  9/20/12 4:04:44 PM#43
Originally posted by Kiljaedenas
Originally posted by gessekai332
Originally posted by Requiem1066

Valuable lesson #4 for GW2 PvP:   The real PvPer's are playing other games 

 

:)

Yeah i agree GW2 has to compete with good pvpers going to dota or LoL.

? Try Eve Online instead.

as long as its not a game where i can go to ebay, buy a twinked account, and then faceroll 90% of the playerbase, then its a pretty decent mmo pvp game.

Most memorable games: AoC(Tryanny PvP), RIFT, GW, GW2, Ragnarok Online, Aion, FFXI, FFXIV, Secret World, League of Legends (Silver II rank)

  User Deleted
9/20/12 4:07:44 PM#44
Originally posted by gessekai332
Originally posted by Kiljaedenas
Originally posted by gessekai332
Originally posted by Requiem1066

Valuable lesson #4 for GW2 PvP:   The real PvPer's are playing other games 

 

:)

Yeah i agree GW2 has to compete with good pvpers going to dota or LoL.

? Try Eve Online instead.

as long as its not a game where i can go to ebay, buy a twinked account, and then faceroll 90% of the playerbase, then its a pretty decent mmo pvp game.

wut

  hikaru77

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/28/07
Posts: 964

9/20/12 4:08:46 PM#45
Originally posted by gessekai332

What i really like about this game is that people who are legitimately good at the game are rewarded. I would always get annoyed in other games when developers would try to dumb the game down WoW style and make it so PvE carebears can steamroll legit pvpers because they were faster at leveling or they bought overpowered gear with gold or cash. But in gw2  this isn't the case because even though there are slight differences in gear doesnt make bads into good players. My friend is lvl 10 in PvE(he just does sPvP all day) was rolling with me in WvW last night and we were smashing people to pieces (2v2, 2v3, and in zergs). He later remarked to me that he is surprised that that there are so many people who are high level but they just suck so much and die to stupid things. They are nothing to the people he encounters in sPvP even when gear and level is in their favor.

 

Valuable lesson #1 for GW2 PvP: You play PvP, you get good at PvP. You play PvE you die in PvP.

Valuable lesson #2 for GW2 PvP: Bads whine about new game mechanics they are not used to (underwater combat, downed state, no trinity). Good players know how to adapt and steamroll!! Don't like underwater combat? thats cool, have fun auto-losing Ruins!

 

I cannot express to you how refreshing it feels to log onto one of my lower lvl alts decked out in greens and smash lvl 80 players in exotics because they dont understand what condition-heavy metagame means.

Clearly, you know nothing about ¨real PvP¨. You sound like one more of those guys who really believe that an Auto-atk spam combat is ¨real pvp¨

  Yamota

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/05/03
Posts: 6506

"I fight so you don't have to."

9/20/12 4:11:45 PM#46
Originally posted by gessekai332

What i really like about this game is that people who are legitimately good at the game are rewarded. I would always get annoyed in other games when developers would try to dumb the game down WoW style and make it so PvE carebears can steamroll legit pvpers because they were faster at leveling or they bought overpowered gear with gold or cash. But in gw2  this isn't the case because even though there are slight differences in gear doesnt make bads into good players. My friend is lvl 10 in PvE(he just does sPvP all day) was rolling with me in WvW last night and we were smashing people to pieces (2v2, 2v3, and in zergs). He later remarked to me that he is surprised that that there are so many people who are high level but they just suck so much and die to stupid things. They are nothing to the people he encounters in sPvP even when gear and level is in their favor.

 

Valuable lesson #1 for GW2 PvP: You play PvP, you get good at PvP. You play PvE you die in PvP.

Valuable lesson #2 for GW2 PvP: Bads whine about new game mechanics they are not used to (underwater combat, downed state, no trinity). Good players know how to adapt and steamroll!! Don't like underwater combat? thats cool, have fun auto-losing Ruins!

 

I cannot express to you how refreshing it feels to log onto one of my lower lvl alts decked out in greens and smash lvl 80 players in exotics because they dont understand what condition-heavy metagame means.

I don't think you know what mmoRPG PvP is about. RPG's have always been about progression through gear and stats, you seem to be confusing FPS PvP with what MMORPG PvP should be like.

One of the things which makes MMORPG PvP superior to FPS PvP is that the former one has a point. You can, if the devs allow you, to interwine PvP with PvE so that one area makes you stronger in the other where as in FPS PvP it has no point, lose or win changes nothing. 

Ever wondered why League of Legends is so popular? It is because they mix PvE with PvP. In GW 2 you don't have that so the PvP is basically just a pointless FPS fragfest.

  hikaru77

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/28/07
Posts: 964

9/20/12 4:19:06 PM#47
Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by gessekai332

What i really like about this game is that people who are legitimately good at the game are rewarded. I would always get annoyed in other games when developers would try to dumb the game down WoW style and make it so PvE carebears can steamroll legit pvpers because they were faster at leveling or they bought overpowered gear with gold or cash. But in gw2  this isn't the case because even though there are slight differences in gear doesnt make bads into good players. My friend is lvl 10 in PvE(he just does sPvP all day) was rolling with me in WvW last night and we were smashing people to pieces (2v2, 2v3, and in zergs). He later remarked to me that he is surprised that that there are so many people who are high level but they just suck so much and die to stupid things. They are nothing to the people he encounters in sPvP even when gear and level is in their favor.

 

Valuable lesson #1 for GW2 PvP: You play PvP, you get good at PvP. You play PvE you die in PvP.

Valuable lesson #2 for GW2 PvP: Bads whine about new game mechanics they are not used to (underwater combat, downed state, no trinity). Good players know how to adapt and steamroll!! Don't like underwater combat? thats cool, have fun auto-losing Ruins!

 

I cannot express to you how refreshing it feels to log onto one of my lower lvl alts decked out in greens and smash lvl 80 players in exotics because they dont understand what condition-heavy metagame means.

I don't think you know what mmoRPG PvP is about. RPG's have always been about progression through gear and stats, you seem to be confusing FPS PvP with what MMORPG PvP should be like.

One of the things which makes MMORPG PvP superior to FPS PvP is that the former one has a point. You can, if the devs allow you, to interwine PvP with PvE so that one area makes you stronger in the other where as in FPS PvP it has no point, lose or win changes nothing. 

Ever wondered why League of Legends is so popular? It is because they mix PvE with PvP. In GW 2 you don't have that so the PvP is basically just a pointless FPS fragfest.

GW2 PvP at this point, is like a Bad FPS game, everyone is just doing dps, playing conquest and spamming one key.

  drakaena

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/11/06
Posts: 508

9/20/12 4:21:30 PM#48

I dunno about hardcore, but GW2 in no way takes more PvP skill then games like WoW and GW1. No. 

Skill in MMO's isn't about twitch speed. It's about strategy, timing, preparedness. Anyone who's competed in high-end e-sport PvP knows this to be true. It's great to master your own class, but you need to know every class and their counter to be able to adapt on the fly.

It's actually a lot of homework.

That's why so few people excel at it. It takes a lot of dedication and time. Studying strats and re-watching matches. Memorizing every ability. It's a chore.

GW2 doesn't compare simply because of it's small amount of skills. There isn't as much to account for. Not enough variables. It's very straight forward in it's approach. It lacks the complexity of even 'gasp' WoW arena.

  gessekai332

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/31/07
Posts: 852

 
OP  9/20/12 4:55:41 PM#49
Originally posted by drakaena

I dunno about hardcore, but GW2 in no way takes more PvP skill then games like WoW and GW1. No. 

Skill in MMO's isn't about twitch speed. It's about strategy, timing, preparedness. Anyone who's competed in high-end e-sport PvP knows this to be true. It's great to master your own class, but you need to know every class and their counter to be able to adapt on the fly.

It's actually a lot of homework.

That's why so few people excel at it. It takes a lot of dedication and time. Studying strats and re-watching matches. Memorizing every ability. It's a chore.

GW2 doesn't compare simply because of it's small amount of skills. There isn't as much to account for. Not enough variables. It's very straight forward in it's approach. It lacks the complexity of even 'gasp' WoW arena.

UGH, small amount of skills? No. Weapon swap, trait combinations, weapon kits. more bound hotkeys does not mean more strategy. its the traits that modify those 10 hotkeys and the combinations of those hotkeys that count. more skills and more hotkeys just means more reliance of fotm macros and more obsolete/useless skills. GW2 is twitch AND strategy.   

Most memorable games: AoC(Tryanny PvP), RIFT, GW, GW2, Ragnarok Online, Aion, FFXI, FFXIV, Secret World, League of Legends (Silver II rank)

  SnarlingWolf

Novice Member

Joined: 6/23/09
Posts: 2728

9/20/12 5:03:06 PM#50
Originally posted by gessekai332
Originally posted by SnarlingWolf

You want to know why you killed a few people in WvW PvP? Most don't give a sh!t.

 

I love PvP, and love real challenging PvP. I've enjoyed playing FPS games in ladders and leagues for the competitve value of them. When it comes to GW2 WvW, I quickly found how pointless WvW was as a whole so I just follow the zerg around and hit a few buttons and genuinely don't care about the outcome as long as my xp bar moves regularly. When a find myself in a spot where I'm alone (or with one other person) and a couple of the enemy find me, I either teleport back to the waypoint before they engage me or stand there and wait while they kill me. I just do not care what happens in WvW and can't really see why anyone does, there is no important reason to "win" or to hold more stuff. It is far more beneficial to just move with the zerg and get kills and loot.

 

So, way to go on your WvW excellence!!!

I love competetive pvp as well and have been playing in competitive leagues and ladders in all sorts of pc multiplayer gaming ever since lobby-based online gaming. In those games, the only "point" is to go up in the ladder and to be better than other clans/groups or whatever. What makes GW2 any different when you compete for server/guild recognition instead of gear? It IS competitive if you want it to be. Pretty sure there is a lot of sh1t talking and drama from the top guilds in the top servers in wvwvw.

You could have just said drama. The reason I stopped joining MMO guilds many MMOs ago is drama is pointless. Just as I don't play in leagues and ladders with overdramatic freaks, it ruins a game.

 

There is no WvW ladder, there is no end point, there are no playoffs, there are no finals, there is no point at all. That is the overall problem. And since it is a game that still has leveling and grinding to earn top gear, what incentive is there to not follow the zerg to maximize gains in WvW? The entire system is pointless as far as any real competitive PvP. I'm sure a couple of big guilds could get a GvGvG going on if they timed it and planned it right and it might be at least more interesting. But the rarity of that would be insane.

  User Deleted
9/20/12 5:05:59 PM#51


Originally posted by gessekai332
What i really like about this game is that people who are legitimately good at the game are rewarded. I would always get annoyed in other games when developers would try to dumb the game down WoW style and make it so PvE carebears can steamroll legit pvpers because they were faster at leveling or they bought overpowered gear with gold or cash. But in gw2  this isn't the case because even though there are slight differences in gear doesnt make bads into good players. My friend is lvl 10 in PvE(he just does sPvP all day) was rolling with me in WvW last night and we were smashing people to pieces (2v2, 2v3, and in zergs). He later remarked to me that he is surprised that that there are so many people who are high level but they just suck so much and die to stupid things. They are nothing to the people he encounters in sPvP even when gear and level is in their favor.

 

Valuable lesson #1 for GW2 PvP: You play PvP, you get good at PvP. You play PvE you die in PvP.

Valuable lesson #2 for GW2 PvP: Bads whine about new game mechanics they are not used to (underwater combat, downed state, no trinity). Good players know how to adapt and steamroll!! Don't like underwater combat? thats cool, have fun auto-losing Ruins!

 

I cannot express to you how refreshing it feels to log onto one of my lower lvl alts decked out in greens and smash lvl 80 players in exotics because they dont understand what condition-heavy metagame means.


Wondering what your credentials are in the esport arena. Won or placed in any tournaments? Or is all your pvp experience from in-game only.

  gessekai332

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/31/07
Posts: 852

 
OP  9/20/12 5:09:28 PM#52
Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by gessekai332

What i really like about this game is that people who are legitimately good at the game are rewarded. I would always get annoyed in other games when developers would try to dumb the game down WoW style and make it so PvE carebears can steamroll legit pvpers because they were faster at leveling or they bought overpowered gear with gold or cash. But in gw2  this isn't the case because even though there are slight differences in gear doesnt make bads into good players. My friend is lvl 10 in PvE(he just does sPvP all day) was rolling with me in WvW last night and we were smashing people to pieces (2v2, 2v3, and in zergs). He later remarked to me that he is surprised that that there are so many people who are high level but they just suck so much and die to stupid things. They are nothing to the people he encounters in sPvP even when gear and level is in their favor.

 

Valuable lesson #1 for GW2 PvP: You play PvP, you get good at PvP. You play PvE you die in PvP.

Valuable lesson #2 for GW2 PvP: Bads whine about new game mechanics they are not used to (underwater combat, downed state, no trinity). Good players know how to adapt and steamroll!! Don't like underwater combat? thats cool, have fun auto-losing Ruins!

 

I cannot express to you how refreshing it feels to log onto one of my lower lvl alts decked out in greens and smash lvl 80 players in exotics because they dont understand what condition-heavy metagame means.

I don't think you know what mmoRPG PvP is about. RPG's have always been about progression through gear and stats, you seem to be confusing FPS PvP with what MMORPG PvP should be like.

One of the things which makes MMORPG PvP superior to FPS PvP is that the former one has a point. You can, if the devs allow you, to interwine PvP with PvE so that one area makes you stronger in the other where as in FPS PvP it has no point, lose or win changes nothing. 

Ever wondered why League of Legends is so popular? It is because they mix PvE with PvP. In GW 2 you don't have that so the PvP is basically just a pointless FPS fragfest.

LoL is popular because its a skill based RPG-style pvp? People dont need to grind PvE Raids for 3 months before they can play mmorpg style PvP.

Most memorable games: AoC(Tryanny PvP), RIFT, GW, GW2, Ragnarok Online, Aion, FFXI, FFXIV, Secret World, League of Legends (Silver II rank)

  VirusDancer

Novice Member

Joined: 11/18/04
Posts: 3684

Heroes are about character - not gear.

9/20/12 5:18:41 PM#53
Originally posted by Foomerang

Wondering what your credentials are in the esport arena. Won or placed in any tournaments? Or is all your pvp experience from in-game only.

Have to wonder how that matters?  It's funny how these threads always digress into things like this.  Hell, even I laughed to the point of tears initially at what it looked like the OP was saying - until I paused for a moment, read it again, and gave the OP the benefit of the doubt.

Different people prefer different types of PvP.  Odds are, they'll even look down on other types of PvP as they favor one over the others.  Personally, I tend to look down on esport PvP - I mean, it's fun to watch and all that - highly entertaining at times; but it's not the same as setting the alarm for 3 AM because some guild/alliance is coming to destroy your city - it's not getting the call at work, breaking out your notebook, and hoping you don't get fired as you log in to fight off somebody raiding your territory.

That being said, it's kind of obvious that the OP's just talking about games that favor gear - and - those games are out there, no doubt about that.  Games where you can watch TV, eat a sandwich, all while fragging the Hell out of the undergeared folks around you...

...so I have to wonder what his credentials in the esport arena has to do with that in the least.  I mean, really...?

I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?

Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%

  Pie_Rat

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/02/05
Posts: 288

9/20/12 5:20:23 PM#54

I dig the idea of  MMORPG PvP without gear progression. Sadly GW2 fails (so far) to replace the gear progression with something else.

FPS and RTS / MOBA have ladder progression and until GW2 has it too, I really don't see the point of it all. PvP without progression is fun for only a little while.

  VirusDancer

Novice Member

Joined: 11/18/04
Posts: 3684

Heroes are about character - not gear.

9/20/12 5:27:31 PM#55
Originally posted by Failings

PvP without progression is fun for only a little while.

Hrmmm... what kind of progression?

Carrots?

Recognition?

Improving your own skills?

I ask, because I'm not a ladder kind of guy - I'm not an esport kind of guy.  I enjoy the randomness of PvP.  There's always going to be somebody that does some cooky thing out of the blue that's good for a laugh or good for some expletives, lol.  I PvP for fun... it's not a task, not a job, not something I'm going to put on my resume.  There's no progression needed for me, just fun.  I definitely understand that different people consider different things fun - so I'm not arguing that you're wrong or anything like that; just asking for clarification of what you mean by progression... is the ladder for carrots, recognition, etc, etc, etc?

I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?

Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%

  User Deleted
9/20/12 5:29:44 PM#56


Originally posted by VirusDancer

Originally posted by Foomerang Wondering what your credentials are in the esport arena. Won or placed in any tournaments? Or is all your pvp experience from in-game only.
Have to wonder how that matters?  It's funny how these threads always digress into things like this.  Hell, even I laughed to the point of tears initially at what it looked like the OP was saying - until I paused for a moment, read it again, and gave the OP the benefit of the doubt.

Different people prefer different types of PvP.  Odds are, they'll even look down on other types of PvP as they favor one over the others.  Personally, I tend to look down on esport PvP - I mean, it's fun to watch and all that - highly entertaining at times; but it's not the same as setting the alarm for 3 AM because some guild/alliance is coming to destroy your city - it's not getting the call at work, breaking out your notebook, and hoping you don't get fired as you log in to fight off somebody raiding your territory.

That being said, it's kind of obvious that the OP's just talking about games that favor gear - and - those games are out there, no doubt about that.  Games where you can watch TV, eat a sandwich, all while fragging the Hell out of the undergeared folks around you...

...so I have to wonder what his credentials in the esport arena has to do with that in the least.  I mean, really...?


Because of the topic title, he implies hes a real pvper. Imo, a real pvper does the tournament scene. So i was wanting to know if thats what he does.

  VirusDancer

Novice Member

Joined: 11/18/04
Posts: 3684

Heroes are about character - not gear.

9/20/12 5:37:29 PM#57
Originally posted by Foomerang

 


Originally posted by VirusDancer

Originally posted by Foomerang Wondering what your credentials are in the esport arena. Won or placed in any tournaments? Or is all your pvp experience from in-game only.
Have to wonder how that matters?  It's funny how these threads always digress into things like this.  Hell, even I laughed to the point of tears initially at what it looked like the OP was saying - until I paused for a moment, read it again, and gave the OP the benefit of the doubt.

 

Different people prefer different types of PvP.  Odds are, they'll even look down on other types of PvP as they favor one over the others.  Personally, I tend to look down on esport PvP - I mean, it's fun to watch and all that - highly entertaining at times; but it's not the same as setting the alarm for 3 AM because some guild/alliance is coming to destroy your city - it's not getting the call at work, breaking out your notebook, and hoping you don't get fired as you log in to fight off somebody raiding your territory.

That being said, it's kind of obvious that the OP's just talking about games that favor gear - and - those games are out there, no doubt about that.  Games where you can watch TV, eat a sandwich, all while fragging the Hell out of the undergeared folks around you...

...so I have to wonder what his credentials in the esport arena has to do with that in the least.  I mean, really...?


 

Because of the topic title, he implies hes a real pvper. Imo, a real pvper does the tournament scene. So i was wanting to know if thats what he does.

It's a contextual post.  It's in the GW2 forums.  It's in the PvP subforum.  It's not in the Pub, General Gaming, etc.

In GW2, GW2 separates the real PvPers from the wannabes - is what he's saying, no?

I mean, sure - many of us got a chuckle out of the thread title alone - but if you look at it, take it in context... he's saying something pretty simple - it's more on even ground.  Pretty simple, eh?  It's not the guys rolling in sporting the best gear and rolling folks that don't stand a chance because they're near one-shotted because of the gear discrepancy (heh, though it is funny when you do that to somebody - I've actually felt guilty...it's like, DAYUM - WTF?).

It's not a case that GW2 separates the real PvPers from other games - it's a case that GW2 separates the real PvPers in GW2...

In a tournament system, folks are going to be geared near the same if not the same.  It's not like rolling folks that turned left when they should have turned right.  So if anything, he's saying that the GW2 PvP is more akin to that... which is something that you would likely agree with, no?  That real PvP folks can be separated from the wannabes - by not having the various outrageous advantages...but that it comes down more to the player's abilities and skills - right?

I mean, I still laugh each time I see that title...and I have to remind myself about the context; but the context is there and his post makes sense.  It appears that the majority of folks attacking him, would actually agree with him - if they just took a moment to consider the context of it all.  Doesn't mean I don't chuckle when I read the title though...

I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?

Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%

  User Deleted
9/20/12 5:37:58 PM#58

All these "real PvPers" wont touch a game where there is actually risk involved with pvp.  I always find it hilarious when themepark pvp instance junkies think they are real pvpers or hardcore pvpers.

 

 

  Navac

Novice Member

Joined: 8/16/08
Posts: 34

9/20/12 5:41:00 PM#59
GW2 pvp is the easiest pvp I have ever played..  I don't play that 8v8 garbage either, strictly only tournaments xD  This game doesn't have enough abilities to  make great players stand out from average ones.
  Pie_Rat

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/02/05
Posts: 288

9/20/12 5:42:09 PM#60
Originally posted by VirusDancer
Originally posted by Failings

PvP without progression is fun for only a little while.

Hrmmm... what kind of progression?

Carrots?

Recognition?

Improving your own skills?

I ask, because I'm not a ladder kind of guy - I'm not an esport kind of guy.  I enjoy the randomness of PvP.  There's always going to be somebody that does some cooky thing out of the blue that's good for a laugh or good for some expletives, lol.  I PvP for fun... it's not a task, not a job, not something I'm going to put on my resume.  There's no progression needed for me, just fun.  I definitely understand that different people consider different things fun - so I'm not arguing that you're wrong or anything like that; just asking for clarification of what you mean by progression... is the ladder for carrots, recognition, etc, etc, etc?

It can be anything really, carrots included, as long my participation leaves a trace I can pick up from the next time I play.

But yeah it has alot to do with personality. I'm a builder. I like building stuff and then contemplating the result. If there's nothing to contemplate when I'm done building, I feel like I've wasted my time.

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