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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » Play our way, or don't play...

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292 posts found
  Xasapis

Tipster

Joined: 1/12/07
Posts: 5608

9/20/12 6:50:20 AM#141
Originally posted by Raekon
...

So with other words you don't even play GW2 but rather jump in threads that are likely negative towards the game for whatever reason?

Some infos for you:

Where do I get the gear from?

  • Common = Mob Drops, Chest Rewards, Merchants
  • Fine = Mob Drops, Chest Rewards, Karma Merchants, Crafting, Mystic Forge
  • Masterwork = Mob Drops, Chest Rewards, Karma Merchants, Crafting, Mystic Forge
  • Rare = Mob Drops, Chest Rewards, Karma Merchants, Cultural Vendor Merchants, Crafting, Mystic Forge, Dungeon Token Rewards
  • Exotic = Mystic Forge, Dungeon Token Rewards, WvW Merchants, Crafting
  • Legendary = Mystic Forge
So much to your theory that one needs nessecarily gold to get a set right?
The only part that CAN involve gold but doesn't NEED or HAVE to, is crafting.
 
If you don't play a game but care enough to participate in its discussions, then at least inform yourself before you get involved so you know how things works before you come up with contradicting or false arguments.

First of all we're talking about exotics and secondly about getting gear that improve looks that are getting nerfed. They didn't just put diminising returns on the gold you make per dungeon run, they put diminishing returns on the tokens as well.

  • The path of least resistance and the easiest way to acquire exotics, just not necessarily a set, is via the auction house and crafted equipment. That needs gold. If you don't buy gems to add extra inventory and bank slots, then you may have enough for most equipment soon after you hit 80. This is the path of least resistance because even if you don't have enough gold, all you need to do is swipe your CC and spend some RL money on gems.
  • As a non crafter, assuming you don't want to spend gold, you have two avenues for exotics, WvW for karma or dungeon runs for tokens. Why you may not want to spend gold? Perhaps because you want to be a meaninful contributor in WvW and buy siege equipment when needed. This is the path that requires time and effort, the path that is not dependant on the cash shop in any way and surprise surprise, the path that is getting further nerfed due to that.
Anet made a very decent Warhammer decendant, but seriously, they are pushing the cash shop down everyone's throat in any way they can. Sure, they are subtle about it. In the name of battling hackers and bots, they cut down every avenue of gold from people so they have to rely on the cash shop.
 
I wonder if people would defend these absurd changes if/when they put diminishing returns on sPvP and WvW rewards. Personally and since the PvE aspect is really not that appealing, it'll be the straw that broke this particular's camel back. The fanatics will still defend the changes of course, but the game will lose players to other, more reasonable and consistent avenues of entertainment.
  Thorbrand

Novice Member

Joined: 3/06/04
Posts: 1217

9/20/12 6:51:24 AM#142
Originally posted by Vorch
Originally posted by Thorbrand

Here is what it comes down to: GW2 at 80 is nothing but grinding. You grind mats, gold, karma, skill points or what ever else for exotics and ledgendaries. That is all there is to do at 80 and now they are putting a limit on being able to grind.

That is just stupid! You can not make a game around grinding a than limit grinding.

http://guildwars2hub.com/features/editorials/80-things-do-level-80

 

 

 

 

-------------

 

 

On topic, I haven't been hit by this recoding, but from what I've heard, it appears that ANet may have made a mistep (they are human...).

I'll give them until the 25th. If nothing changes, then I'll get on the bandwagon.

As that list indicates there is nothing to do at 80 but grind.

  lifeordinary

Novice Member

Joined: 7/05/12
Posts: 691

9/20/12 6:51:56 AM#143
Originally posted by bunnyhopper
Originally posted by Tardcore
You know what this whole kerfuffle reminds me of? When FFXIV announced their Fatigue System.

It reminds me of the fact that the mmo community has generally gone to shit.

Stop your generalization. This topic has lot of genuine concerns and questions. 

  User Deleted
9/20/12 6:53:02 AM#144
Originally posted by bunnyhopper
Originally posted by Tardcore
You know what this whole kerfuffle reminds me of? When FFXIV announced their Fatigue System.

It reminds me of the fact that the mmo community has generally gone to shit.

If you find yourself blaming everyone else, it might not be everyone else. The devs made this game in a manner to be palatable to masses and now the shortcomings, because it attracts least common denominator, are shining.

 

"You can't fool all the people all the time."

  Nadia

Elite Member

Joined: 7/26/03
Posts: 11219

9/20/12 6:53:57 AM#145
Originally posted by Kaelano1,
Originally posted by Nadia

its not "bait and switch" when players are exploiting a specific dungeon

doing workarounds to what was not intended

https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/game/dungeons/The-CoF-Buff-My-opinions/page/2#post158017

most devs have done dungeon tuning post release

Because... they're such professional developers they'd never have seen this coming? This isn't a coding flaw this time...

of course!  all pro developers are always perfect --- they never make  mods to their code <sarcasm>

 

Every mmo released has exploits due to code or oversights

thats what patches and hotfixes are for

  Volkon

Novice Member

Joined: 9/14/10
Posts: 3813

Facts do not require fiction for balance.

9/20/12 6:55:09 AM#146
Originally posted by sr7olsniper

I dont know if you are trolling or being serious for that question. What I mean by the EULA part is that tehy are not violating the terms of service, aka using bots, hacks, exploits to get an unfair advantage. What the speed runners are doing is within their right since they are playiung the game normally. If you want to fix the issue then you do a small lock out for the people that kill 1 or 2 bosses and leave without completing. But if you give ht eplayers the choice to select 1 out of X amounts of paths and they all give the same rewards but 1 is shorter then it is a no brainer that the players will choose the easiest way out. Anet basically punished the players for being human and that is teh whole point of this thread. If they want to do the slowest time on the dungeon let them do it. Adjust the rewards so that overtime it shouldnt matter which one you do, however they did not do that, htye flat out eliminate rewards after Xammount of farms or tries on a dungeon. 

 You'll notice no one is getting banned for speed runs, right? They've changed the mechanics so that speed runs are less efficient (as their intent) and from what I've read they've slowed them down a bit with added difficulty. Speed runs were not the intended way of running dungeons, so they adjust the dungeons. No one is being punished. No one is having "ill-gotten rewards" removed or anything silly like that. They simply said "Oops, that's too easy, let's fix it.".

 

This is much better than leaving an unintentionally out of balanced part of the game unchanged.

Oderint, dum metuant.

  Volkon

Novice Member

Joined: 9/14/10
Posts: 3813

Facts do not require fiction for balance.

9/20/12 6:57:55 AM#147
Originally posted by Xasapis
Anet made a very decent Warhammer decendant, but seriously, they are pushing the cash shop down everyone's throat in any way they can. ...

 This lie keeps getting regurgitated in order to elicit an emotional response, yet it's not based in facts in any way, shape or form.

Oderint, dum metuant.

  User Deleted
9/20/12 6:58:10 AM#148

The so-called farming 'nerfs' were for the benefit of the entire game.  People really need to use their heads and think for more than two-seconds about this stuff.

In other games when a mob is killed, one person gets the loot.  In GW2 EVERYONE who hit it gets loot.  That means there are more drops and that equals more money/items flooding the market.  

The entire economy > a few individual farmers.

 

  User Deleted
9/20/12 7:00:21 AM#149
Originally posted by lifeordinary
Originally posted by bunnyhopper
Originally posted by Tardcore
You know what this whole kerfuffle reminds me of? When FFXIV announced their Fatigue System.

It reminds me of the fact that the mmo community has generally gone to shit.

Stop your generalization. This topic has lot of genuine concerns and questions. 

Players were blasting through content to get rewards at a rate that ANET felt was unintended. ANET put in diminishing returns as opposed to lock outs to bring rewards within what they consider "reason" whilst still allowing people to speed run to their hearts content.

 

It is still incredibly easy to get mats for crafting by rotating maps/zones and farming outside of DE's/Dungeons. So (but I can't craft) is not a viable comment

 

ANET may have dropped a ball by not fixing a "cap" in the first place, they would have dropped more of a ball by not fixing what they felt was not working at all. Or are we saying they should not fix the game to match their intended vision?

 

People are getting pissy because they cannot get teh super dooper looking items in 5 minutes flat.

 

So no, not a great deal of genuine concerns as far as I can see.

  User Deleted
9/20/12 7:01:06 AM#150

Play our way, or don't play...

GW2 system ported to WoW battlegrounds

kill 10 players in 10 minutes  and earn 100 honor.

kill 100 players in 20 minutes  and earn 200 honor.

and in gw2 its a good system,revolutionary?

 

  Xasapis

Tipster

Joined: 1/12/07
Posts: 5608

9/20/12 7:01:38 AM#151
Originally posted by Nadia
...

of course!  all pro developers are always perfect --- they never make  mods to their code

 

Every mmo released has exploits due to code or oversights

thats what patches and hotfixes are for

So now if a dungeon has an easy way to beat the end boss and a harder way, if people choose the easy way they are exploiters? That's a new one. I bet none of you in your high horses that defend so feverly Anet have skipped trash mobs in dungeons before. And if you did, did you consider yourselves exploiting? Give me a break.

Simply put, Anet is cutting every avenue to gold besides the cash shop .

  • Dungeon running? Check
  • Selling materials for gold? Check
  • Killing mobs? Check
  • Running dynamic events? Check
The only thing they haven't touched yet is WvW, so I expect it to get the finger in an upcoming patch as well.
  lifeordinary

Novice Member

Joined: 7/05/12
Posts: 691

9/20/12 7:03:13 AM#152
Originally posted by bunnyhopper
Originally posted by lifeordinary
Originally posted by bunnyhopper
Originally posted by Tardcore
You know what this whole kerfuffle reminds me of? When FFXIV announced their Fatigue System.

It reminds me of the fact that the mmo community has generally gone to shit.

Stop your generalization. This topic has lot of genuine concerns and questions. 

Players were blasting through content to get rewards at a rate that ANET felt was unintended. ANET put in diminishing returns as opposed to lock outs to bring rewards within what they consider "reason" whilst still allowing people to speed run to their hearts content.

 

It is still incredibly easy to get mats for crafting by rotating maps/zones and farming outside of DE's/Dungeons. So (but I can't craft) is not a viable comment

 

ANET may have dropped a ball by not fixing a "cap" in the first place, they would have dropped more of a ball by not fixing what they felt was not working at all. Or are we saying they should not fix the game to match their intended vision?

 

People are getting pissy because they cannot get teh super dooper looking items in 5 minutes flat.

 

So no, not a great deal of genuine concerns as far as I can see.

Yeah that is matter of opinion because for you it is not a genuine concern. Still no reason to generalise the community. I did say please didn't i?

Also, i already answered to this 'it wasn't intended way by Anet'. But you never replied.

  sr7olsniper

Novice Member

Joined: 8/07/09
Posts: 216

9/20/12 7:03:50 AM#153
Originally posted by ForumPvP

Play our way, or don't play...

GW2 system ported to WoW battlegrounds

kill 10 players in 10 minutes  and earn 100 honor.

kill 100 players in 20 minutes  and earn 200 honor.

and in gw2 its a good system,revolutionary?

 

I would argue WoW is doing it a lot better tehse days specailly in MoP, at least if we are talking time to reward ratio. Which at the end equates more people doing your content and "having fun" to a certain degree. 

At least with a sub game they know that people won't tolerate bullshit and leave. With anet we have no recourse but to buy our own lube so our assholes don't get too stretched out from getting bent over a table at Anets will. - Hrimnir

  User Deleted
9/20/12 7:05:42 AM#154
Originally posted by sr7olsniper
Originally posted by bunnyhopper
Originally posted by sr7olsniper
Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
Originally posted by sr7olsniper

 

 

I don't recall seeing anything in the EULA about a specific set return rate of rewards that every player was entitled to? Perhaps you can find that part for us?

I dont know if you are trolling or being serious for that question. What I mean by the EULA part is that tehy are not violating the terms of service, aka using bots, hacks, exploits to get an unfair advantage. What the speed runners are doing is within their right since they are playiung the game normally. If you want to fix the issue then you do a small lock out for the people that kill 1 or 2 bosses and leave without completing. But if you give ht eplayers the choice to select 1 out of X amounts of paths and they all give the same rewards but 1 is shorter then it is a no brainer that the players will choose the easiest way out. Anet basically punished the players for being human and that is teh whole point of this thread. If they want to do the slowest time on the dungeon let them do it. Adjust the rewards so that overtime it shouldnt matter which one you do, however they did not do that, htye flat out eliminate rewards after Xammount of farms or tries on a dungeon. 

Speed runners can still speed run. Given you brought up the EULA it is rather amusing that you think I am the one trolling here.

  babac

Novice Member

Joined: 2/08/07
Posts: 185

9/20/12 7:06:04 AM#155
Originally posted by KhinRunite
GW2 as it stands right now is anti-farmers. Sucks to be a farmer right now.

+1

  User Deleted
9/20/12 7:06:58 AM#156
Originally posted by lifeordinary
Originally posted by bunnyhopper
Originally posted by lifeordinary
Originally posted by bunnyhopper
Originally posted by Tardcore
 

 

 

Yeah that is matter of opinion because for you it is not a genuine concern. Still no reason to generalise the community. I did say please didn't i?

Also, i already answered to this 'it wasn't intended way by Anet'. But you never replied.

I must have missed that post, I'll have a look now.

 

EDIT: I gather it is the post about statistical advantage from gear, and if non is given who cares if people get it straight away? If that is the case then ANET clearly cares who gets the skins straight away as it is part of the longer term progression of the game.

 

Personally I couldn't give a toss myself, if someone wants to grind the crap 24/7 for a skin then fair play to them.

  sr7olsniper

Novice Member

Joined: 8/07/09
Posts: 216

9/20/12 7:08:56 AM#157
Originally posted by bunnyhopper
Originally posted by sr7olsniper
Originally posted by bunnyhopper
Originally posted by sr7olsniper
Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
Originally posted by sr7olsniper

 

 

I don't recall seeing anything in the EULA about a specific set return rate of rewards that every player was entitled to? Perhaps you can find that part for us?

I dont know if you are trolling or being serious for that question. What I mean by the EULA part is that tehy are not violating the terms of service, aka using bots, hacks, exploits to get an unfair advantage. What the speed runners are doing is within their right since they are playiung the game normally. If you want to fix the issue then you do a small lock out for the people that kill 1 or 2 bosses and leave without completing. But if you give ht eplayers the choice to select 1 out of X amounts of paths and they all give the same rewards but 1 is shorter then it is a no brainer that the players will choose the easiest way out. Anet basically punished the players for being human and that is teh whole point of this thread. If they want to do the slowest time on the dungeon let them do it. Adjust the rewards so that overtime it shouldnt matter which one you do, however they did not do that, htye flat out eliminate rewards after Xammount of farms or tries on a dungeon. 

Speed runners can still speed run. Given you brought up the EULA it is rather amusing that you think I am the one trolling here.

No one speeds runs or runs anything for the matter to not get anything. If you think people will run somethign over and over again for no purpose whatsoever then you are delusional. Check my post with Chrono Trigger so you can understand my point. The fact that they are not getting locked out, but just punished for doing what they like is the whole point. Specially since the gear supposedly is just cosmetic and there is no big difference between the gear the speed runners can get and the other one the regular ppl can get. 

At least with a sub game they know that people won't tolerate bullshit and leave. With anet we have no recourse but to buy our own lube so our assholes don't get too stretched out from getting bent over a table at Anets will. - Hrimnir

  User Deleted
9/20/12 7:14:12 AM#158
Originally posted by sr7olsniper
Originally posted by ForumPvP

Play our way, or don't play...

GW2 system ported to WoW battlegrounds

kill 10 players in 10 minutes  and earn 100 honor.

kill 100 players in 20 minutes  and earn 200 honor.

and in gw2 its a good system,revolutionary?

 

I would argue WoW is doing it a lot better tehse days specailly in MoP, at least if we are talking time to reward ratio. Which at the end equates more people doing your content and "having fun" to a certain degree. 

Makes me wonder ,do they  have this system on WvWvW also,honor badges will not drop if people kills enemies too fast.

Is there a cap for those also,is it 100% drop ?

Now if they control this on PvE side ,why not in PvP as well,if its so good system.

all roads lead to Rome,i mean cash shop.

 

 

  TwoThreeFour

Novice Member

Joined: 3/26/12
Posts: 2148

9/20/12 7:15:37 AM#159
Originally posted by bunnyhopper
Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
Originally posted by bunnyhopper
Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
Originally posted by bunnyhopper
Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
Originally posted by Connmacart
 

 

 

 

 

That's right, I don't think it is a good idea either to let one repeatable task give so easy gain that other tasks become pointless in relation to it. However, there are other methods to solve it, like the token change depending on path like suggested above.

Reducing loot does not reduce freedom. You still have the option to take that method to get that loot, your rate just decreases in order that you will no longer get the loot at a rate disproportionate to every other task.

 

Surely changing the tokens dependant upon the path falls into exactly the same line of "its against freedom" thinking you posited before? If I want to run one route over and over again, you are reducing mah freedomz if you make token change dependant upon path.

 

"2 more for speed run of x" goes up the cry! I don't buy the whole "freedom" argument at all, it is all about people getting bent out of shape about not getting complete sets within an insanely short amount of time.

 

I am arguing that the amount of "viable choices" dictate how much freedom you have. Maybe it doesn't have to be actual mathematically viable choices, maybe it is just enough that the persons perceive the options as viable. What is "viable" is of course a matter of opinion.

 

Making only one progression path viable, is bad then from a freedom-stance. Which is why I find it good that they fix such balance issues. The token suggestion, suggested above, would make multiple dungeon paths viable. The current "solutioN" is horrible from a freedom-perspective compared to other solutions.

  Nadia

Elite Member

Joined: 7/26/03
Posts: 11219

9/20/12 7:15:40 AM#160
Originally posted by Xasapis
Originally posted by Nadia

Every mmo released has exploits due to code or oversights

thats what patches and hotfixes are for

So now if a dungeon has an easy way to beat the end boss and a harder way, if people choose the easy way they are exploiters? 

my comment was specifically about one dungeon -  COF not being "bait and switch"

the developer listed 3 things he changed,  2 of them changed because players were bypassing with workarounds

https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/game/dungeons/The-CoF-Buff-My-opinions/page/2#post158017

taking advantage of a couple bugs found in the same chain, and our leashing/aggro system. I played with groups who did this, and watched you-tube clips of what was going on.

The problems I identified with the speed run aspect of this are as follows:
1. You just need 1 person to get to the magmacyte across the magma field. This will cause an invulnerable Magg to run across the entire field through mobs and progress the dungeon. Then this person teleports back.
2. Instead of fighting the enemies in a timed event at he door buster, you just circle strafe them or leash aggro them to “kill the clock” since it was only a 100 second timer on the event.

So what did I do?
1. I made it so that Magg has to get to the other side of the Magma field and close to the magmacyte – not just a player. Magg not taking aggro from nearby enemies was a big reason for this issue to be resolved. By giving him aggro, and forcing you to escort him to the ending, I fixed what I considered to be a bug/exploit that I introduced through poor planning.
2. I extended the time from 100 seconds to 200 seconds at the Door Buster event. I intended for you to fight those guys, not circle strafe them and aggro leash chain them. I also added 1 additional mob to the encounter at the very middle (a bow dude) to account for you now having twice the time to defeat the waves that come in.

 

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