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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » Play our way, or don't play...

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292 posts found
  User Deleted
9/20/12 7:33:44 AM#121
Originally posted by sr7olsniper
Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
Originally posted by sr7olsniper

 

un the same path over and over and over for fun, and so they didn't get punished at all.

That is the thing, you are punishing those that want to speed run since they are in their right to do so with in the EULA. And as I mentioned in a previous post no one runs the same content indefinetly wiht no reward. YOu can only do the same thing so many times before you are bored. Just like any single player game, once you beat it once  you have seen everything that particular thing has to offer. So you etiher really want to run it again or you do it because there is something you want at the end. If its the former then you can only do it so many times before you are sick of it. I mentioned Chrono trigger since it is the game I have replayed the most of and even then iut was far between months because it got boring. Dont get me wrong I love Chrono Trigger to death and will probably replay it again this weekend, but my last playtrhough was 3 years ago. YOu cant do that in an MMO you need people constantly doing the same content or the player pool starts to shrink and you cant do group content anymore. That is where I am goiung at. 

I don't recall seeing anything in the EULA about a specific set return rate of rewards that every player was entitled to? Perhaps you can find that part for us?

  lifeordinary

Novice Member

Joined: 7/05/12
Posts: 691

9/20/12 7:34:28 AM#122
Originally posted by bunnyhopper
Originally posted by Nadia
Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
 

ANET did punish speed runners - 3 different changes to all dungeons

the part i highlighted in yello affects everyone no matter how many different paths you take

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/365276/ANET-commentary-on-patched-dungeons.html

Let me clarify the change a bit since not everyone understands it.

If you run the exact same chain twice in a row you will have your rewards cut. This means you can bounce back and forth between 2 different chains, even in the same dungeon without ever hitting this change. This change is made to encourage people to try different chains.


If you speed clear dungeons at a rate of more than 2/ hour, and continue to do that for some time your rewards will slowly begin to degrade. It doesn't kick in after running a single dungeon and it doesn't immediately zero out rewards.

Finally we reduced the value of repeating the story mode, because they are built to be easier and we want to encourage those repeating dungeons to run explore mode.

If people are running dungeons at that rate, they are doing it for loot reasons. They are getting rewarded at a rate that ANET clearly did not intend. Ergo the possible peak return rate has been changed.

I don't understand. Players are not getting any stastical advantage from the gear. No matter what source you use, you get armor of almsot identical stats other than tier 3 legendary gear.

So why is it a problem if players want to grind dungeons for gear which is mostly for looks? i would understand that Anet is scared that people would consume content too soon and stop paying monthly sub but that is not how the game was designed now was it?

If anything these changes go against everything that Anet has been saying regarding how they want players to just play and have fun in GW2.

So i am sorry but i can not digest this reasoning.

  User Deleted
9/20/12 7:34:49 AM#123

This post seriously confuses me... people actually are upset that they need to explore and do different things?

Variety is the spice of life. Go enjoy the rest of the game to level up rather than grinding that one DE.

  User Deleted
9/20/12 7:35:10 AM#124
Originally posted by Kaelano1
Originally posted by bunnyhopper
Originally posted by Nadia
Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
 
blahh blahh...

If people are running dungeons at that rate, they are doing it for loot reasons. They are getting rewarded at a rate that ANET clearly did not intend. Ergo the possible peak return rate has been changed.

How many examples will we be shown of ANet punishing others for their own mistakes?

Probably plenty, but then not fixing those mistakes would be worse.

  Nadia

Tipster

Joined: 7/26/03
Posts: 11727

9/20/12 7:35:49 AM#125

personally i would have preferred having dungeon lockouts for 1 hour

but every dev has their own method

  Thorbrand

Novice Member

Joined: 3/06/04
Posts: 1217

9/20/12 7:36:15 AM#126

Here is what it comes down to: GW2 at 80 is nothing but grinding. You grind mats, gold, karma, skill points or what ever else for exotics and ledgendaries. That is all there is to do at 80 and now they are putting a limit on being able to grind.

That is just stupid! You can not make a game around grinding a than limit grinding.

  Caliburn101

Novice Member

Joined: 3/30/11
Posts: 647

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." Albert Einstein

9/20/12 7:36:58 AM#127
Originally posted by PieRad
Originally posted by Caliburn101
Originally posted by PieRad
Originally posted by Caliburn101
Originally posted by AvatarBlade
Haven't done a lot of farming or DEs latley, but as far as explorable goes, more tokens for harder paths than for easy ones would be a way better solution. Don't mind it getting less token for running the same path only, but I did 2 of them in Arah yesterday. One has 2 champion fights and 2 boss fights, which took like 1.5-2h to complete. The second one had 1 champion fight and 5 boss fights, took like 4h to complete, yet gave the same ammount of tokens. Sure it was rewarding to finish that hard path, but it still felt that you should get a bit more tokens for completing it.

Yeah the queues of flaming armour geared hardcores outside of CoF doing the same run all day is testament to this. I've done the run three times and am now bored of it.

The fact I want the flame weapons for transforms means I will be running  the dungeon some more, but I am getting tired of being forced, when I am pugging, to do the same run ad nauseam because the gear looks good and everyone wants it as fast as possible becuase it is level 75 and not something they regard as endgame (aka get through it ASAP) - I want to do the other wings of the dugeon and this imbalance is spoiling my enjoyment and  the enjoyment of others I know trying to enjoy the rich extent of the game - not wallowing in the farming hotspots doing the same thing again and again....

....the little-discussed flip side to the leetist desires and negative collateral effects of the 'I want it all and I want it now' crowd.

Sounds like you're jealous?

I mean, those of us who put the time and effort into getting it fast, deserves it, don't we? We play however we like, and we don't talk bad about you, so why do you feel the need to talk trash about us?

What is the negative collateral effect from me getting all the pieces fast? Does it hurt you in any way?

Not trying to start a war here, I'm just curious.

The problem has been a fairly obvious one since MMO's began - it's the solution that has eluded designers....

Accusations of jealousy are just lazy - so I'll treat that with the *sigh* it deserves.

Onto the meat of the issue however;

I want to get some kit from CoF; I can't guild group run it all the time and so I pug. But pugging means I am restricted exclusively to the damn spam run in explorable and I am not enjoying that content anymore. I could do what the majority have done and bypass it for the level 80 dungeons and their greater rewards, but I want the look of the weapons because it goes bests with my culture gear - also chosen for appearace not stats.

It is not the choice of the run-spammers which is actually the root cause of the problem - it's the fact the run is too easy and too fast for consistently high reward. The spammers are just scratching the spot until it bleeds....

Spammers always complain about restrictions on choice and then go and throw themselves into the same repetitive miminum effort/maximum reward repetition cycle - using the loudly defended 'we want a variety of choice' arguement  to then go and choose to play the minimum variety of content.... counterintuitive to say the least.

The flipside of this is the 'casuals' who want everything on a plate and no advantage for the 'no-lifers'. 'I pay the same so I should get the same', 'time chained to your computer doesn't equal skill'.... blah blah the same old points regurgitated....

Take you're pick - they are both 'wrong' in my opinion - it's just the 24/7 players are more vocal due to having the time to spam forums :) ....

... anyway, where was I.... ah yes - I want a balance - maximum content accessibility with just a reasonable diminishing returns brake on content spamming so a more balanced game economy and less adversarial, leetist... call it what you like, vibe is to be had all round.

I have my full Ravagers Set, all the accessories I wanted for dungeons and most for soloing. I have the full culture set for appearance. I just want to get the flame weapons whilst having soem fun just for the looks.... already got better weapons equiped stat-wise.

But bugger me if I can find a pug-group for anything else but that bloody same explorable run every time.

I don't craft much - but I do appreciate the economic arguement for balance - it's as plain as the nose on my face.

It is simply not tenable to have a parallel line between reward and time played when the source of reward is infinite - it ruins games. ANet just need to get the counterbalance system better tuned and fairer to all concerned.

 

The "jealousy" accusation came to life, because you bring "no lifers, elitists, and hardcore gamers" into a lot of your posts, as if they are the source of the problem.

If something is too easy then bottom line is game design, and tweaking the game design in a way so it doesn't feel punishing to gamers, no matter how they play.

I'm in a guild that did run CoF a lot, and was able to do guild runs almost exclusively, so I guess that's a matter of choosing the right guild. I'm certain that there are guilds out there that focuses more on exploring different paths in dungeons, but still "farm" it to a lesser degree of what hardcore guilds do, to get the weapons you wanted.

And if such a guild didn't exist, I could imagine just saying "LFG CoF, path X" would help you to get in groups that doesn't concentrate on just getting through it as fast as possible.

 

You can't have better weapons than exotic CoF weapons, they are all the same statwise.

For example: Crafted exotic beserker greatsword, is exactly the same as the exotic power/precision/crit.dmg greatsword from CoF, just saying :P

Molten weapons are level 80??

As for the labels - 'no lifer', 'casual', 'carebear' etc. - they are just shorthand. I have been a no-lifer, a carebear and a casual myself. You can't avoid the labels even when you try - so I use them....

... and example of ME being lazy - true....

  User Deleted
9/20/12 7:37:39 AM#128
Originally posted by evilastro

This post seriously confuses me... people actually are upset that they need to explore and do different things?

Variety is the spice of life. Go enjoy the rest of the game to level up rather than grinding that one DE.

It's about "putting it out there" and then suddenly changing up. We gamers call it "bait and switch". People enjoy running dungeons. People invest time in game, making the game look populated, praising it on forums and defending it to haters on reddit, and then the thing they like is stripped because they were never meant to like it.

  sr7olsniper

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/07/09
Posts: 221

9/20/12 7:38:49 AM#129
Originally posted by dariuszp
Originally posted by sr7olsniper 

yes because Anet is god and GW2 is the best thing since sliced bread. Dude chillax, people are allowed to play however they want to play and if they want to farm for hours on end as long as it doenst violate the EULA they are in their right to do so. Claiming someone has no life, or has issues if they are playing too much is not only retarded on your part but also makes your entire post garbage. The methods in question have not prevented farming since it is still rampant, however it has also affeceted the players as you can see from the record of this thread. YOu either add constructive critisism or add some depth into the conversation or you might as well stfu, just saying. 

Yes, I played almost every dam MMO on mmorpg.com list that is not at lowest bottom. Because I was looking for MMO that give me a feeling that I play MMO. Not some single player garbage with people around me (I'm looking at you TOR). So for me, GW2 IS next best thing. My next MMO after EVE that I loved because it allow me to progress even doing short sessions per day or even once every few days.

ANet is not a GOD but they listen anyway. Things OP mentioned are EXPLAINED BY ANET. There release note about this.

No one prevent farming. You can kill those mobs for days until they restart servers and when servers come back online you can farm even more. You can farm until you die. Just don't expect rewards at some point. Still - if you enjoy farming, lower rewards should not be a problem.

Just like dungeon farmer in other posts. If you love doing dungeons one after another without break etc then decreasing rewards should not be a problem. Because you should enjoy activity anyway right ? It seems they do it just for the sake of farming. And farming my friend is kind of bad for economy. 

Also it is quite logical. After you cleared dungeon or anything else you should not expect that gold will magically return to the chest or something. Same with farming mobs. You killed all donkeys in the area. One donkey killed and ate knight in golder armor. You cut out that armor and you wear it (blah... :/) and you expect that donkeys ate more knights in golder armor ? Sorry :P

This method affect farmers. Call it all you want. Once you are doing same activity for hours and hours you are a farmer. Like it or not. And if you do it for hours and hours then trust me - you really have problems in your life. Normal person return from school/work, eat something, do something around the house, play hour or two and go to sleep or go out with friends. I don't know how people could waste their life playing 6-8 hours (long sesions in mmo last even more than 1 day !) a game. 

Like they can't do a thing in real life so they need virtual one with easy mode (compare to real life). This is kind of sad. Those people need help.

That is the whole point here, sir. You are basing your posts on a preformed idea of what a "normal" person should and should not do. That is not how the world works, if the OP is obsanely rich and can afford to play 24/7 let him do so. It doenst affect you in the slighless besides a case of jelousy because he doenst have to clock in his 40 hrs a week (Id be jelaous as hell). Anet is punish the type of players that enjoy doing what the OP does and that in itself is 100% wrong. If you want to attack botters you go at them directly since tey are not even part of your customer base at that point. But you dont go and hit the players where it hurts and expect no backlash. Every game out there has bots and farmers, you dont see them doing what Anet did, why do you think that is the case?

At least with a sub game they know that people won't tolerate bullshit and leave. With anet we have no recourse but to buy our own lube so our assholes don't get too stretched out from getting bent over a table at Anets will. - Hrimnir

  Volkon

Novice Member

Joined: 9/14/10
Posts: 3813

Facts do not require fiction for balance.

9/20/12 7:41:38 AM#130
Originally posted by Sylvarii
This has nothing to do with botters and more to do with ArenaNet wanting everyone to use the cash shop. Did you really think that buying the game is enough for ArenaNet,nope cashshop is their bread and butter.

 When they start selling linen scraps or vials of assorted bloods in the cash shop then your argument might begin to make sense.

Oderint, dum metuant.

  Vorch

Novice Member

Joined: 9/18/11
Posts: 809

9/20/12 7:42:55 AM#131
Originally posted by Thorbrand

Here is what it comes down to: GW2 at 80 is nothing but grinding. You grind mats, gold, karma, skill points or what ever else for exotics and ledgendaries. That is all there is to do at 80 and now they are putting a limit on being able to grind.

That is just stupid! You can not make a game around grinding a than limit grinding.

http://guildwars2hub.com/features/editorials/80-things-do-level-80

 

 

 

 

-------------

 

 

On topic, I haven't been hit by this recoding, but from what I've heard, it appears that ANet may have made a mistep (they are human...).

I'll give them until the 25th. If nothing changes, then I'll get on the bandwagon.

"As you read these words, a release is seven days or less away or has just happened within the last seven days— those are now the only two states you’ll find the world of Tyria."...Guild Wars 2

  User Deleted
9/20/12 7:43:07 AM#132
Originally posted by Kaelano1
Originally posted by evilastro

This post seriously confuses me... people actually are upset that they need to explore and do different things?

Variety is the spice of life. Go enjoy the rest of the game to level up rather than grinding that one DE.

It's about "putting it out there" and then suddenly changing up. We gamers call it "bait and switch". People enjoy running dungeons. People invest time in game, making the game look populated, praising it on forums and defending it to haters on reddit, and then the thing they like is stripped because they were never meant to like it.

Don't like it? Too bad. Your hype has influenced hundreds of thousands of 12-16yo kids to con their parents into retail versions and their allowance in the cash shop.

  Nadia

Tipster

Joined: 7/26/03
Posts: 11727

9/20/12 7:43:10 AM#133
Originally posted by Kaelano1

It's about "putting it out there" and then suddenly changing up. We gamers call it "bait and switch". People enjoy running dungeons. People invest time in game, making the game look populated, praising it on forums and defending it to haters on reddit, and then the thing they like is stripped because they were never meant to like it.

its not "bait and switch" when players are exploiting a specific dungeon

doing workarounds to what was not intended

https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/game/dungeons/The-CoF-Buff-My-opinions/page/2#post158017

 

most devs have done dungeon tuning post release

  Tardcore

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/13/09
Posts: 2370

"A strange game. The only winning move is not to post."

9/20/12 7:44:11 AM#134
You know what this whole kerfuffle reminds me of? When FFXIV announced their Fatigue System.

"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "

  sr7olsniper

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/07/09
Posts: 221

9/20/12 7:44:53 AM#135
Originally posted by bunnyhopper
Originally posted by sr7olsniper
Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
Originally posted by sr7olsniper

 

un the same path over and over and over for fun, and so they didn't get punished at all.

That is the thing, you are punishing those that want to speed run since they are in their right to do so with in the EULA. And as I mentioned in a previous post no one runs the same content indefinetly wiht no reward. YOu can only do the same thing so many times before you are bored. Just like any single player game, once you beat it once  you have seen everything that particular thing has to offer. So you etiher really want to run it again or you do it because there is something you want at the end. If its the former then you can only do it so many times before you are sick of it. I mentioned Chrono trigger since it is the game I have replayed the most of and even then iut was far between months because it got boring. Dont get me wrong I love Chrono Trigger to death and will probably replay it again this weekend, but my last playtrhough was 3 years ago. YOu cant do that in an MMO you need people constantly doing the same content or the player pool starts to shrink and you cant do group content anymore. That is where I am goiung at. 

I don't recall seeing anything in the EULA about a specific set return rate of rewards that every player was entitled to? Perhaps you can find that part for us?

I dont know if you are trolling or being serious for that question. What I mean by the EULA part is that tehy are not violating the terms of service, aka using bots, hacks, exploits to get an unfair advantage. What the speed runners are doing is within their right since they are playiung the game normally. If you want to fix the issue then you do a small lock out for the people that kill 1 or 2 bosses and leave without completing. But if you give ht eplayers the choice to select 1 out of X amounts of paths and they all give the same rewards but 1 is shorter then it is a no brainer that the players will choose the easiest way out. Anet basically punished the players for being human and that is teh whole point of this thread. If they want to do the slowest time on the dungeon let them do it. Adjust the rewards so that overtime it shouldnt matter which one you do, however they did not do that, htye flat out eliminate rewards after Xammount of farms or tries on a dungeon. 

At least with a sub game they know that people won't tolerate bullshit and leave. With anet we have no recourse but to buy our own lube so our assholes don't get too stretched out from getting bent over a table at Anets will. - Hrimnir

  sr7olsniper

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/07/09
Posts: 221

9/20/12 7:45:47 AM#136
Originally posted by Tardcore
You know what this whole kerfuffle reminds me of? When FFXIV announced their Fatigue System.

I love you! That is exactlpy what I am saying. The same problem that happened then is happening now and they cant see it. You never punish a player since that is in the human psyche to retaliate. 

At least with a sub game they know that people won't tolerate bullshit and leave. With anet we have no recourse but to buy our own lube so our assholes don't get too stretched out from getting bent over a table at Anets will. - Hrimnir

  User Deleted
9/20/12 7:45:48 AM#137
Originally posted by Nadia
Originally posted by Kaelano1

It's about "putting it out there" and then suddenly changing up. We gamers call it "bait and switch". People enjoy running dungeons. People invest time in game, making the game look populated, praising it on forums and defending it to haters on reddit, and then the thing they like is stripped because they were never meant to like it.

its not "bait and switch" when players are exploiting a specific dungeon

doing workarounds to what was not intended

https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/game/dungeons/The-CoF-Buff-My-opinions/page/2#post158017

 

most devs have done dungeon tuning post release

Because... they're such professional developers they'd never have seen this coming? This isn't a coding flaw this time...

  User Deleted
9/20/12 7:46:53 AM#138
Originally posted by Tardcore
You know what this whole kerfuffle reminds me of? When FFXIV announced their Fatigue System.

It reminds me of the fact that the mmo community has generally gone to shit.

  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7539

9/20/12 7:49:43 AM#139
Sometimes I just want to grind mobs too OP. I did it while leveling in WoW the first couple times. More recently I did it in TSW. To my welcomed suprise it was a viable choice for xp.
  Tardcore

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/13/09
Posts: 2370

"A strange game. The only winning move is not to post."

9/20/12 7:50:10 AM#140
Originally posted by Nadia
Originally posted by Kaelano1

It's about "putting it out there" and then suddenly changing up. We gamers call it "bait and switch". People enjoy running dungeons. People invest time in game, making the game look populated, praising it on forums and defending it to haters on reddit, and then the thing they like is stripped because they were never meant to like it.

its not "bait and switch" when players are exploiting a specific dungeon

doing workarounds to what was not intended

https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/game/dungeons/The-CoF-Buff-My-opinions/page/2#post158017

 

most devs have done dungeon tuning post release

And there's that little "Exploiting" word again. So these players were EXPLOITERS huh? Well then A-net can take away their toys and ban the biggest culprits then. And please don't tell me its because they can't. They can look at logs and see who ran this dungeon and how many times and at what intervals.

However if A-net isn't going to do that then maybe you guys need to quit accusing these people of being something they aren't. And more importantly start wondering exaclty why A-net is doing things in the manner that they are.

"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "

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