Originally posted by MosesZD

Originally posted by Tardcore

Originally posted by Jackdog
How dare Arenanet protect the economy and not let gold/exp farmers do exactly as they wish. The nerve

How dare they do it in a way that also penalizes honest players. The nerve.

 

Only they're not. 

Yes they are

Originally posted by Xasapis

Originally posted by Raekon

...

So with other words you don't even play GW2 but rather jump in threads that are likely negative towards the game for whatever reason?

Some infos for you:

Where do I get the gear from?

• Common = Mob Drops, Chest Rewards, Merchants
• Fine = Mob Drops, Chest Rewards, Karma Merchants, Crafting, Mystic Forge
• Masterwork = Mob Drops, Chest Rewards, Karma Merchants, Crafting, Mystic Forge
• Rare = Mob Drops, Chest Rewards, Karma Merchants, Cultural Vendor Merchants, Crafting, Mystic Forge, Dungeon Token Rewards
• Exotic = Mystic Forge, Dungeon Token Rewards, WvW Merchants, Crafting
• Legendary = Mystic Forge

So much to your theory that one needs nessecarily gold to get a set right?

The only part that CAN involve gold but doesn't NEED or HAVE to, is crafting.

 

If you don't play a game but care enough to participate in its discussions, then at least inform yourself before you get involved so you know how things works before you come up with contradicting or false arguments.

First of all we're talking about exotics and secondly about getting gear that improve looks that are getting nerfed. They didn't just put diminising returns on the gold you make per dungeon run, they put diminishing returns on the tokens as well.

• The path of least resistance and the easiest way to acquire exotics, just not necessarily a set, is via the auction house and crafted equipment. That needs gold. If you don't buy gems to add extra inventory and bank slots, then you may have enough for most equipment soon after you hit 80. This is the path of least resistance because even if you don't have enough gold, all you need to do is swipe your CC and spend some RL money on gems.
• As a non crafter, assuming you don't want to spend gold, you have two avenues for exotics, WvW for karma or dungeon runs for tokens. Why you may not want to spend gold? Perhaps because you want to be a meaninful contributor in WvW and buy siege equipment when needed. This is the path that requires time and effort, the path that is not dependant on the cash shop in any way and surprise surprise, the path that is getting further nerfed due to that.

Anet made a very decent Warhammer decendant, but seriously, they are pushing the cash shop down everyone's throat in any way they can. Sure, they are subtle about it. In the name of battling hackers and bots, they cut down every avenue of gold from people so they have to rely on the cash shop.

 

I wonder if people would defend these absurd changes if/when they put diminishing returns on sPvP and WvW rewards. Personally and since the PvE aspect is really not that appealing, it'll be the straw that broke this particular's camel back. The fanatics will still defend the changes of course, but the game will lose players to other, more reasonable and consistent avenues of entertainment.

So you wanna start a "it's all about the item shop" argument that has been done to death now through your conspiracy theory while calling everyone that is against your point of view a fanatic now?

The exotic gears stats even a bit higher than other gear are so minimal that doesn't help you in WvsWvsW at all.

If you can't play your character well you will be killed even by someone that has normal level 40 or less gear anyway so I want you to tell me WHY someone should ever rely on the item shop and WHY someone really needs this gear besides the looks. 

GW1 had partially the same restrictions and was buy to play as well. You NEVER needed the item shop.

It's the same way in GW2. The only gems I bought and spend were for 3 additional character slots because I wanted to create all professions at the headstart and reserve the names even it was rather unlikely that someone else would use them.

It was an option, not a must cause I don't have to play all the professions but rather stick to the ones I mainly like instead.

Never had a space problem even I hoard tons of stuff because I crafted bigger bags and got easily enough gold together by only playing the game without farming anything for extra materials or runes of holding to be able to craft even bigger ones.

All collectibles have their own slot and in the materials case you can stuck up to 250 per slot which is a good amount of space. The Bank space itself is used only for a few upgrades(Sigils and runes) as also weapons I'm adding there with my main and pick up with my alts to use them with them later.

So there is always enough space without the need to buy any gold or gems in the first place.

All you need to do is organize things. I even crafted and placed bigger bags in our guild bank to help our lowbies or just sent them per mail directly to them.

As you can see in the part you quote from my previous post, there are various ways to get the exotic gear if you are THAT high on its looks so gold isn't nessecarily needed.

Other than that I'm currently level 59 and have currently around 2 gold again after I spend most of my money previously on various things (I admit a lot went on repair and some on mini pets from TP).

My collegue from work had already over 6 gold by playing the game normally with no farming involved like me aswell.

He just hit level 80 and has over 10 gold at hand without farming either.

So no matter if some restrictions took place or not, having gold is not a problem in this game.

That's something that you really can't tell about many other mmos out there and I know for sure since I have tested and played most available out there through the years.

The item shop has nothing you really need so saying that it got "shoved down our throats" it's ridicoulos to say the least.

Go check item shops from other games in which you can buy mounts that gives you stats that you have a "chance" to get out of the box because 18 other useless items are in the same box and would drop at 99% of the time while you have like 1% chance to get the mount.

Why you need a mount?

Because with its stats you have a chance in pvp, without them you can see how others pummel you to pulp.

Same goes for:

-  licenses you NEED to do certain things

-  Keys you NEED to be able to run certain dungeons

-  stones you NEED to be able to repair your armor if you don't want to see it break to pieces and dissappear

These are only very few examples of what is in item shops of other games that are really getting shoved down your throat.

In GW2s case not really.

Originally posted by sr7olsniper

Originally posted by ChrisReitz

Originally posted by GeezerGamer

 

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Originally posted by ChrisReitz

---

Originally posted by GeezerGamer Those of you who've been hailing this new B2P revenue model as the future, and sub games were ripping customers off. Think about this for a second. You have all been looking at it from the wrong perspective. Once you consider the Box fee as the entry fee, Then after 60 bucks, you have to wipe the slate clean for each player. From then on, you are left with 2 types of players. Gem buyers and freeloaders. Almost without exception, this forum has adopted the freeloader position and tossed the buyer's perspective in the trash and dismissed it as irrelevant. Well, guess who did NOT dismiss that perspective as irrelevant? (Hint: Arenanet) They must make the overall game experience better for gem buyers then freeloaders or there is no reason to buy gems.  

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I have a feeling you never played guild wars 1 the gem store isnt a big deal to arena net. Its their for people who want just alittle help with what they are doing. It doesnt effect the game in anyway it isnt a p2w or p2p mmorpg. Free loader you are funny ~pokes your nose~ beep

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GW1 is not GW2
If they had the same expectations, they'd have implemented the same Cash Shop

Maybe you should go play runes of magic or Allods online. If Guild wars 2 wanted most of their encome from the cash shop. They would have added stones like that to their shop. BUT instead you get xp armor stuff to make crafting  easier and armor and so on. Doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure this out... lol heh... They already sold over 2 million copies at 60 dollars a head.

just read my sig

People tolerate bullshit in sub games - if they didn't WoW would have crashed when Crusade came out for all the whining and complaining about it. Your signature shows you don't understand human nature at all.

Originally posted by Tardcore

Originally posted by Jackdog
How dare Arenanet protect the economy and not let gold/exp farmers do exactly as they wish. The nerve

How dare they do it in a way that also penalizes honest players. The nerve.

The price is often paid by honest folk for the mistakes/exploits of the unjust.

Such is real life.

How is this news to people? Do ya'll ever watch the news?

For every honest player grind'n to pay the bills/make some profit that is limited by Anet's rules, there are probably a dozen potential farmers/bots who are thus unable to function.

"The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one."

Originally posted by xpiher

1) Never played GW1 did you? These systems existed in it as well

2) You can cirumvent the anti-farming code by moving areas. As soon as you see your rewards drop, pack up and move. Yes, its that easy

3) Dungeons being broken is a sperate issue. Once they are fixed (which they should be if they are infact broken), the anti-dungeon farming code won't be noticed if you cycle between 2-3 different paths of the same dungeon. 

That's what I do.   I start in an area and work across it.     Then go to an equivalent area and work across it.   Then I come back.  

And I don't do it because I'm trying to avoid the flag.   I am just not going to sit in the same area for four hours farming the same mob to get some minor advantage in a game like the no-lifers do...   I mean, seriously, it's a game not a job or an investment...   Just a game...

And yet some of these people...    ANet is like North Korea?     That's silly beyond belief.    

Originally posted by GeezerGamer

LOL, Yeah, 2M boxes. It is a great start. But they really do need an ongoing revenue stream. I seem to recall another big production MMO recently, that sold about 2M boxes and failed because it couldn't maintain a revenue stream.

ANET will have paid expansions too

Originally posted by BadSpock

Originally posted by Tardcore

Originally posted by Jackdog
How dare Arenanet protect the economy and not let gold/exp farmers do exactly as they wish. The nerve

How dare they do it in a way that also penalizes honest players. The nerve.

The price is often paid by honest folk for the mistakes/exploits of the unjust.

Such is real life.

How is this news to people? Do ya'll ever watch the news?

For every honest player grind'n to pay the bills/make some profit that is limited by Anet's rules, there are probably a dozen potential farmers/bots who are thus unable to function.

"The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one."

 

The problem is that the restirction they have put in helps gold farmers and hurts legit players.

Originally posted by botrytis

Originally posted by sr7olsniper

Originally posted by ChrisReitz

Originally posted by GeezerGamer

 

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Originally posted by ChrisReitz

---

Originally posted by GeezerGamer Those of you who've been hailing this new B2P revenue model as the future, and sub games were ripping customers off. Think about this for a second. You have all been looking at it from the wrong perspective. Once you consider the Box fee as the entry fee, Then after 60 bucks, you have to wipe the slate clean for each player. From then on, you are left with 2 types of players. Gem buyers and freeloaders. Almost without exception, this forum has adopted the freeloader position and tossed the buyer's perspective in the trash and dismissed it as irrelevant. Well, guess who did NOT dismiss that perspective as irrelevant? (Hint: Arenanet) They must make the overall game experience better for gem buyers then freeloaders or there is no reason to buy gems.  

---

I have a feeling you never played guild wars 1 the gem store isnt a big deal to arena net. Its their for people who want just alittle help with what they are doing. It doesnt effect the game in anyway it isnt a p2w or p2p mmorpg. Free loader you are funny ~pokes your nose~ beep

---

 

GW1 is not GW2
If they had the same expectations, they'd have implemented the same Cash Shop

Maybe you should go play runes of magic or Allods online. If Guild wars 2 wanted most of their encome from the cash shop. They would have added stones like that to their shop. BUT instead you get xp armor stuff to make crafting  easier and armor and so on. Doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure this out... lol heh... They already sold over 2 million copies at 60 dollars a head.

just read my sig

People tolerate bullshit in sub games - if they didn't WoW would have crashed when Crusade came out for all the whining and complaining about it. Your signature shows you don't understand human nature at all.

Last time I checked, the mayority of players prasie the burning crusade to no end. Your response shows you have no clue of what you are talking about. Qui-gon Jinn so elegantly put it, "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent"

Originally posted by Nadia

Originally posted by Voiidiin

Originally posted by Scalpless
 for dungeons, you can run them as often as you want, as long as you don't just run the same path of the same dungeon over and over again.

You are wrong about dungeons, after running TA then CM story, i went to AC and was capped.

the cap is based on how fast you complete them

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/365276/ANET-commentary-on-patched-dungeons.html

If you speed clear dungeons at a rate of more than 2/ hour, and continue to do that for some time your rewards will slowly begin to degrade. It doesn't kick in after running a single dungeon and it doesn't immediately zero out rewards.

 

You know, facts don't matter to these people.   They never will.

Don't speed farm dungeons for hours on end on the same toon and you won't have the problem.  Don't stand in the same spot killing the same mob for four hours and you won't have the problem.

Can't figure it out -- cry on the forums and act like ANet is a dictatorship and will torture you to death for not worshiping glorious leader.    (And yes, some of them really have called ANet a dictatorship and at least one likened it to North Korea.)

This seems like kinda a knee-jerk reaction on their part. I kinda hope it is just a place holder type fix, until they can roll out something more permanent. 

People on the official forums are... less than pleased about the affect it has on DEs.

When a "real" player on a level 7 character earns 20 exp, 2 karma and 1 copper for a DE that are actively participating in, thats is not right. There is also another player in chat doing the same event that also hit the wall.

Many times you don't even have to bounce around to hit the cap. You know how some DEs chain from one into the next into the next. Some people have had the anti-farm code kick in while just working on the chain.

Originally posted by MosesZD

Originally posted by Nadia

Originally posted by Voiidiin

Originally posted by Scalpless
 for dungeons, you can run them as often as you want, as long as you don't just run the same path of the same dungeon over and over again.

You are wrong about dungeons, after running TA then CM story, i went to AC and was capped.

the cap is based on how fast you complete them

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/365276/ANET-commentary-on-patched-dungeons.html

If you speed clear dungeons at a rate of more than 2/ hour, and continue to do that for some time your rewards will slowly begin to degrade. It doesn't kick in after running a single dungeon and it doesn't immediately zero out rewards.

 

 

You know, facts don't matter to these people.   They never will.

 

Don't speed farm dungeons for hours on end on the same toon and you won't have the problem.  Don't stand in the same spot killing the same mob for four hours and you won't have the problem.

 

Can't figure it out -- cry on the forums and act like ANet is a dictatorship and will torture you to death for not worshiping glorious leader.    (And yes, some of them really have called ANet a dictatorship and at least one likened it to North Korea.)

Might as well not play the game at all and be done wiht it dont you think? YOu do realize all your comments are saying is that people should play less which is, in essence, not good for an mmo. Please, for the love of all that is holy, think before you post. 

Originally posted by Jyiiga

This seems like kinda a knee-jerk reaction on their part. I kinda hope it is just a place holder type fix, until they can roll out something more permanent. 

People on the official forums are... less than pleased about the affect it has on DEs.

When a "real" player on a level 7 character earns 20 exp, 2 karma and 1 copper for a DE that are actively participating in, thats is not right. There is also another player in chat doing the same event that also hit the wall.

Many times you don't even have to bounce around to hit the cap. You know how some DEs chain from one into the next into the next. Some people have had the anti-farm code kick in while just working on the chain.

 

i agree - it felt like a bandaid fix for what happened to DEs

Originally posted by BadSpock

Originally posted by Tardcore

Originally posted by Jackdog
How dare Arenanet protect the economy and not let gold/exp farmers do exactly as they wish. The nerve

How dare they do it in a way that also penalizes honest players. The nerve.

The price is often paid by honest folk for the mistakes/exploits of the unjust.

Such is real life.

How is this news to people? Do ya'll ever watch the news?

For every honest player grind'n to pay the bills/make some profit that is limited by Anet's rules, there are probably a dozen potential farmers/bots who are thus unable to function.

"The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one."

 

Couldn't resist because you are Spock and even the bad one is worth saving - 

Kirk: The needs of the one outweighed the needs of the many. 

But for my 2 cents, they did simular work in GW1, I expected as much in GW2. It's one of the reason I like Anet they react  and try to do something. In the P2P games I've played I've not seen a company so aggresively try to maintain balance and economy. I'm not saying they aren't out there and I'm not saying GW2 gets it right all the time but they are aggressive in their approach. Players hate change and any change "in the way I want to play" ruffles feathers but there is more drama to it then actual inconvience...such is the forums land of drama queens and over reactors it passes the time. 

Originally posted by Nadia

Originally posted by Jyiiga

This seems like kinda a knee-jerk reaction on their part. I kinda hope it is just a place holder type fix, until they can roll out something more permanent. 

People on the official forums are... less than pleased about the affect it has on DEs.

When a "real" player on a level 7 character earns 20 exp, 2 karma and 1 copper for a DE that are actively participating in, thats is not right. There is also another player in chat doing the same event that also hit the wall.

Many times you don't even have to bounce around to hit the cap. You know how some DEs chain from one into the next into the next. Some people have had the anti-farm code kick in while just working on the chain.

 

i agree - it felt like a bandaid fix for what happened to DEs

More like malpractice, the kind that leaves surgical utensils inside you for weeks while the doctor is oblivious. 

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Originally posted by Nadia

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Originally posted by GeezerGamer LOL, Yeah, 2M boxes. It is a great start. But they really do need an ongoing revenue stream. I seem to recall another big production MMO recently, that sold about 2M boxes and failed because it couldn't maintain a revenue stream.

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ANET will have paid expansions too

 

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Given with how infatuated EA/BW was with the WoW model, I think it's fairly safe to say they were were planning on expansions down the road as well..

Originally posted by sr7olsniper

Originally posted by Nadia

Originally posted by Jyiiga

This seems like kinda a knee-jerk reaction on their part. I kinda hope it is just a place holder type fix, until they can roll out something more permanent. 

People on the official forums are... less than pleased about the affect it has on DEs.

When a "real" player on a level 7 character earns 20 exp, 2 karma and 1 copper for a DE that are actively participating in, thats is not right. There is also another player in chat doing the same event that also hit the wall.

Many times you don't even have to bounce around to hit the cap. You know how some DEs chain from one into the next into the next. Some people have had the anti-farm code kick in while just working on the chain.

 

i agree - it felt like a bandaid fix for what happened to DEs

More like malpractice, the kind that leaves surgical utensils inside you for weeks while the doctor is oblivious. 

 The sniper doth protest too much methinks.

Originally posted by BadSpock

Originally posted by Tardcore

Originally posted by Jackdog
How dare Arenanet protect the economy and not let gold/exp farmers do exactly as they wish. The nerve

How dare they do it in a way that also penalizes honest players. The nerve.

The price is often paid by honest folk for the mistakes/exploits of the unjust.

Such is real life.

How is this news to people? Do ya'll ever watch the news?

For every honest player grind'n to pay the bills/make some profit that is limited by Anet's rules, there are probably a dozen potential farmers/bots who are thus unable to function.

"The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one."

 

And can you prove any of that shit? No its only hyberbole. And the needs of the many argument is also a load of horse apples as this is not a real world life or death situation, but a consumer product. When you sell a customer a product and then limit their ability to use said product due to the actions of others that are abusing said product, no one wins. It only fosters ill will in the honest customer and the abuser will continue to find new and different ways to abuse.

And while we're on the subject let's stop pretending that its the gold farmers who have ratfucked the economy. Its the direct fault of A-net that the game has a piss poor economy model as they made it to where not only was every player able to gather and craft EVERYTHING, but also added ridiculous XP bonuses for doing so which made it very desirable for players to participate in this activity. Even if A-net manages the impossible and runs every gold farmer out of game, every player that gathers or crafts and then uses the TP will be cutting each others financial throats.

I feel that A-nets current actions to rectify this issue have done nothing but piss off honest players who were otherwise having a good time.

Let's start laying the blame at the feet of the people that actually deserve it.

Originally posted by Tardcore

Originally posted by BadSpock

Originally posted by Tardcore

Originally posted by Jackdog
How dare Arenanet protect the economy and not let gold/exp farmers do exactly as they wish. The nerve

How dare they do it in a way that also penalizes honest players. The nerve.

The price is often paid by honest folk for the mistakes/exploits of the unjust.

Such is real life.

How is this news to people? Do ya'll ever watch the news?

For every honest player grind'n to pay the bills/make some profit that is limited by Anet's rules, there are probably a dozen potential farmers/bots who are thus unable to function.

"The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one."

 

And can you prove any of that shit? No its only hyberbole. And the needs of the many argument is also a load of horse apples as this is not a real world life or death situation, but a consumer product. When you sell a customer a product and then limit their ability to use said product due to the actions of others that are abusing said product, no one wins. It only fosters ill will in the honest customer and the abuser will continue to find new and different ways to abuse.

And while we're on the subject let's stop pretending that its the gold farmers who have ratfucked the economy. Its the direct fault of A-net that the game has a piss poor economy model as they made it to where not only was every player able to gather and craft EVERYTHING, but also added ridiculous XP bonuses for doing so which made it very desirable for players to participate in this activity. Even if A-net manages the impossible and runs every gold farmer out of game, every player that gathers or crafts and then uses the TP will be cutting each others financial throats.

I feel that A-nets current actions to rectify this issue have done nothing but piss off honest players who were otherwise having a good time.

Let's start laying the blame at the feet of the people that actually deserve it.

For some reason I read your entire post with a russian accent and it was amazing

Originally posted by MosesZD

Originally posted by Nadia

Originally posted by Voiidiin

Originally posted by Scalpless
 for dungeons, you can run them as often as you want, as long as you don't just run the same path of the same dungeon over and over again.

You are wrong about dungeons, after running TA then CM story, i went to AC and was capped.

the cap is based on how fast you complete them

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/365276/ANET-commentary-on-patched-dungeons.html

If you speed clear dungeons at a rate of more than 2/ hour, and continue to do that for some time your rewards will slowly begin to degrade. It doesn't kick in after running a single dungeon and it doesn't immediately zero out rewards.

 

 

You know, facts don't matter to these people.   They never will.

 

Don't speed farm dungeons for hours on end on the same toon and you won't have the problem.  Don't stand in the same spot killing the same mob for four hours and you won't have the problem.

 

Can't figure it out -- cry on the forums and act like ANet is a dictatorship and will torture you to death for not worshiping glorious leader.    (And yes, some of them really have called ANet a dictatorship and at least one likened it to North Korea.)

No its opinions that don't matter to these people, or rather YOUR opinions, and that's all you are stating, though you seem to feel you are stating yours as facts.

These changes feel restrictive. I am made to be aware of the underlying mechanics of the game Im trying to immerse myself in. So if I go kill trolls, I need to watch the clock and think about what other monster I can kill for the same crap I need.

If Im rolling in Orr, I also need to watch the mobs Im killing, they must vary, if its not another type of undead, Ill hit the anti loot code soon after arriving. 

If Im in Arah, I can jump farm tokens from the first two bosses, because none of Arenanet changes has affected this trivilisation of dungeon runs. Infact the very changes to dungeons has ensured I want less to do with them, and the more efficient a token farm is the better for me. So while I find the changes are dumb in an mmo setting, I also marvel at how they let me completely make an arse out of their dungeon design, while rolling all these restrictions out that doesnt effect it one bit. My goal now is to get the tokens I want before they fix this, by making it so tokens are only rewarded upon full completion of the dungeon. Im pretty sure that is the next step.