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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » I miss the trinity, how about you?

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135 posts found
  Zeus.CM

Novice Member

Joined: 6/13/10
Posts: 1790

www.croatian-maniacs.com

9/18/12 4:41:41 AM#41
No more LFG for healer, DPS or tank for 30 minutes. Thank you Arenanet.
  User Deleted
9/18/12 4:47:26 AM#42
Thankfully for those who miss it, 99% of the MMORPG on the market use it - so they don't lack choice of a game to go play ;-)
  Jackdog

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/19/04
Posts: 6201

9/18/12 4:53:33 AM#43

don't miss the trinity at all, can remember many times having to stop a raid or big dungeon crawl becasue the healers wife decided it was time for him to quit or the CC'er losing her connection. Nothing more fun than sitting and spamming tank LFG asswhup dungeon right?

don't miss naked corpse runs either, or full loot PvP or ginding 38926 more large nasty whozits so I can make level 38

I miss DAoC

  Zikari

Novice Member

Joined: 2/28/12
Posts: 78

 
OP  9/18/12 4:57:36 AM#44
Originally posted by Jackdog
don't miss the trinity at all, can remember many times having to stop a raid or big dungeon crawl becasue the healers wife decided it was time for him to quit or the CC'er losing her connection. Nothing more fun than stinning and spamming tank LFG asswhup dungeon right?

Nobody will argue, that having to fill a specific role was a pain in the but and is gladly as good as gone with GW2. However when you purely compare the fun you have playing in the GW dungeons, compared to trinity games (if you played any), is it more or less fun. Let's just assume the start-up time would be the same and looking for replacements wouldn't be an issue, is it more entertaining and satisfying to play PvE like this?

  Xasapis

Tipster

Joined: 1/12/07
Posts: 5587

9/18/12 4:58:34 AM#45
Originally posted by Zeus.CM
No more LFG for healer, DPS or tank for 30 minutes. Thank you Arenanet.

Instead you can have your instant gratifcation corpsezerg with groups that are most of the time undergeared, solo based specced and clueless about synergies. Not much of an improvement. Sometimes waiting a while to get a quality experience surpasses instant gratification mixed with frustration.

And please don't try to defend him by mentioning guild or friend runs. LFG obviously imply random people and the majority of random people have learned to work solely for themselves on every other aspect of GW2. In contrast, pure tanks and healers have to live through a frustrating experience on every other aspect of gameplay (in other games obviously) in order to have a great experience in groups.

  delete5230

Elite Member

Joined: 8/15/07
Posts: 2334

9/18/12 5:05:27 AM#46

I do have to say that GW2 dungeons have less strategy without healer, tank and dps, OTHER THAN TAGGING WHO TO KILL FIRST. A well oiled team ONLY consist of how much dps is put out and lots of resurrecting down players. Something else that helps is knowing where traps are and getting out of the red circles of damaging AOE's, but this is a solo tactic nothing to do with a team.

Why can't mmo deves make tanks and healers more dps so they would enjoy soloing more is beyond me....People would play them more. 

Vanguard makes healers very strong in solo, there are never a lack of healers because they are fun to solo. ( this is the only mmo that I know of )

  Jackdog

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/19/04
Posts: 6201

9/18/12 5:07:08 AM#47
Originally posted by Zikari
Originally posted by Jackdog
don't miss the trinity at all, can remember many times having to stop a raid or big dungeon crawl becasue the healers wife decided it was time for him to quit or the CC'er losing her connection. Nothing more fun than stinning and spamming tank LFG asswhup dungeon right?

Nobody will argue, that having to fill a specific role was a pain in the but and is gladly as good as gone with GW2. However when you purely compare the fun you have playing in the GW dungeons, compared to trinity games (if you played any), is it more or less fun. Let's just assume the start-up time would be the same and looking for replacements wouldn't be an issue, is it more entertaining and satisfying to play PvE like this?

just one or two, started with a MUD named MUME back in the very early 90's, played UO, DAoC, SWG, EQ2, LoTRO, and TOR for at least 6 months minimum each, beta tested about a dozen more including Vanguard, EvE, AoC and some more readily nad best forgotten games.

I am so glad the trinnity is gone, time to move on with this genre. naked corpse runs are dead also just as they  should be.

I miss DAoC

  Dibdabs

Elite Member

Joined: 5/29/08
Posts: 2346

9/18/12 5:07:34 AM#48
Originally posted by Zikari
 

What’s your take on this, do you miss the trinity in the 5 player dungeons of Guild Wars 2?

I was totally fed up with 'the trinity' and I am glad to see the back of it.

HOWEVER... there are much more efficient ways of taking down a mob than everyone "getting their gun off".  There's a reluctance on the part of some players to swap to a support spec because zerging the boss does eventually get the job done, even if droves of characters die in the process.  (I think something as simple as a 15-second "time out" on death might go some way to curing this attitude, but that's another topic entirely)

For example, as a Ranger, I rarely ever see another Ranger use Spirits to boost players in the melee - all there is is loads of traps being set.  As an Engineer, I rarely see another Engineer use an Elixir Gun and Medkits, just loads of gun turrets.  Don't get me wrong, the traps and gun turrets do the job eventually, but it just seems messy and chaotic.

  KhinRunite

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/05/10
Posts: 887

9/18/12 5:24:03 AM#49
Originally posted by Xasapis
Originally posted by Zeus.CM
No more LFG for healer, DPS or tank for 30 minutes. Thank you Arenanet.

Instead you can have your instant gratifcation corpsezerg with groups that are most of the time undergeared, solo based specced and clueless about synergies. Not much of an improvement. Sometimes waiting a while to get a quality experience surpasses instant gratification mixed with frustration.

And please don't try to defend him by mentioning guild or friend runs. LFG obviously imply random people and the majority of random people have learned to work solely for themselves on every other aspect of GW2. In contrast, pure tanks and healers have to live through a frustrating experience on every other aspect of gameplay (in other games obviously) in order to have a great experience in groups.

There's a solution to that: teach clueless people how to specc for group. There's bunch of skill points lying about in the game, and thanks to Tiered utility a player will inevitably pick up a AOE heal or buff, or support skill. It takes time to educate the masses, but it's not impossible.

In a Holy Trinity game there's no soultion to the issue presented. You're stuck waiting for the right class to fill the role, or you're stuck looking for a group who needs your class.

  User Deleted
9/18/12 5:30:05 AM#50
Originally posted by delete5230

A well oiled team ONLY consist of how much dps is put out and lots of resurrecting down players.

Nope, a well oiled team of good players will very rarely have to resurrect down players. It's a PuG of bad players which does that.

  IPolygon

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/20/11
Posts: 699

9/18/12 5:32:58 AM#51
Don't miss it. But I've always been someone looking at the bigger picture. I prefer Total War over any Craft and WvW over group member dependency and D2 chaotic over Baldur's Gate-like click and pause gameplay.
  Xasapis

Tipster

Joined: 1/12/07
Posts: 5587

9/18/12 5:37:43 AM#52
Originally posted by KhinRunite
.

There's a solution to that: teach clueless people how to specc for group. There's bunch of skill points lying about in the game, and thanks to Tiered utility a player will inevitably pick up a AOE heal or buff, or support skill. It takes time to educate the masses, but it's not impossible.

In a Holy Trinity game there's no soultion to the issue presented. You're stuck waiting for the right class to fill the role, or you're stuck looking for a group who needs your class.

Still, the system is not fool proof, like Rift's or TSW's, where you can switch roles on the fly. If you (and is very likely) end up in a group of 5 glass cannons, how much of a right do you have to ask them to go back to a trainer and buy a skill reset to put more points into utility skills? And even if you have the audacity to do so, there is no way of telling whether they are skilled right for dungeon running instead of WvW or being properly geared.

The only thing you can tell is how many times you had to raise them from down state. Even that is not much of an indication, since, say me as a guardian, can play it safe and put on a scepter and tickle the boss from a safe distance while being semi useless (as far as damage mitigation and dps goes).

 

As for teaching others, good luck with that. Generally people are receptive to instructions about how to approach an encounter but extremely defensive on anything that has to do on how they play their class/role. So you can generally explain the general rules of engagement and people will thank you, but the moment you start commenting on how people can improve their gameplay, you're labelled a jerk and a meddler.

  MurlockDance

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/20/10
Posts: 1068

9/18/12 5:48:34 AM#53

Great post OP. It is definitely an interesting question whether having removed the holy trinity is better/funner than keeping it in. I don't miss holy trinity because I am still playing WoW along side playing GW2.

However, there are still healer/tank functions in GW2 so I don't necessarily agree that it is completely gone. The abilities are more spread out between classes.

I admit I am still learning the game so I only have some knowledge of Engineers, Rangers, and Elies, but it seems to me that each of these three classes have a bit of healing and a bit of defensive capabilities tossed in with some status effects. The Engineer and the Elie seem to have more ease healing people though with certain builds than the Ranger does, whereas the Ranger has a lot of status effects that cripple targets, etc.

So, if it seems that there isn't enough healing, why not equip the right weapon, switch skills and heal? That is one of the things I really like with the Elementalist: it is so incredibly flexible! I have been soloing with an earth build using a sceptre and focus, but when I have to heal I switch to a staff and water build. If dps is needed, I switch again to a fire build.

I don't like how one is pigeonholed with the abilities, you are not free to swap them out without visiting a trainer first. I do find that annoying.

My server is really young and I noticed that a lot of people opt for dps no matter what the encounter, and then run around like headless chickens and die in the more difficult DEs. I have taken to choosing the water spec most times just for that reason. I don't particularly like healing, but I will do it if it furthers the DE along.

Playing MUDs and MMOs since 1994.

  MurlockDance

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/20/10
Posts: 1068

9/18/12 5:54:50 AM#54
Originally posted by Xasapis

Still, the system is not fool proof, like Rift's or TSW's, where you can switch roles on the fly. If you (and is very likely) end up in a group of 5 glass cannons, how much of a right do you have to ask them to go back to a trainer and buy a skill reset to put more points into utility skills? And even if you have the audacity to do so, there is no way of telling whether they are skilled right for dungeon running instead of WvW or being properly geared.

The only thing you can tell is how many times you had to raise them from down state. Even that is not much of an indication, since, say me as a guardian, can play it safe and put on a scepter and tickle the boss from a safe distance while being semi useless (as far as damage mitigation and dps goes).

 

As for teaching others, good luck with that. Generally people are receptive to instructions about how to approach an encounter but extremely defensive on anything that has to do on how they play their class/role. So you can generally explain the general rules of engagement and people will thank you, but the moment you start commenting on how people can improve their gameplay, you're labelled a jerk and a meddler.

Underlined part: yes, that is a real drag. I think ANet should allow people to have two ability templates they can swap between, a bit like dual spec in WoW. Rift is excellent for flexibility too and I think they really have the right idea.

I think with advising people how to play their role, there are two ways to go about it: be condescending and get labelled a jerk/meddler or be constructive by providing advice and get labelled a friend. I am open to learning how to play better, unless someone is in my face shouting newb at me and telling me I suck.

Playing MUDs and MMOs since 1994.

  Ren128

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/27/12
Posts: 67

9/18/12 6:12:22 AM#55
Originally posted by Nitth

imo the trinity needs to be expanded, not consolidated.

Rift tried that with Support role. Yes you can actually choose 4 roles when queing up on LFG. However, often support people end up being dps in 5mans. However, in 25 man raids, there's always someone running Bard and/or Archon, simply because the buffs they provide far outweight their loss of dps/healing if they were in those roles.

 

 

 

 

  Djildjamesh

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/09/11
Posts: 395

9/18/12 6:23:45 AM#56
Originally posted by Loke666
Originally posted by crazynanny

OP - it's nostalgia mainly.

Trinity system while not something bad is less complex in general, as you need to pay attention just for one thing. Green bars as healer, big boss/mobs as tank, rotation as dps. While simplicity isn't necessairly flaw, it wasn't the source of your fun. It was fitting the puzzle(heal, dps, tank) into dungeon design. So yeah I agree first clear of dungeon in trinity modle was darn satysfying. But after that, you got stuck in one old boring scheme, tank stays here, dps/healer here and off we go. It's shallow and it's BORING!

Not to mention biggest trinity flaw - blaming each other. Bad healer, bad tank, bad dps. While you can be still a bad player in GW2 it's harder to be ignorant and just put a blame on someone. You know when someone is not pulling their weight because they should do same things as you. Also this forces more cooperation and more friendliness then "L2P n00b" or "LFG XYZ dungeon, 56421+ GS , link achiev pls".

In GW2 everyone needs to pay attention to everything. You heal, buff, debuff, dps and tank mobs. To lesser degree of course than dedicated class. This requires darn good cooperation and participation in battle, rather than "I stand here and pew pew cuz I'm dps".

It will take time to get used to new system however, which will change encouters from death zerg into cooperate to progress.

I agree, if someone dies 20 times in a Wow dungeon they blame the healer or possibly the tank. When the same thing happen in GW2 they complain that the game is too hard.

Big improvement.

You get my vote for best reply of the week.

That's a great way of looking at it :)

  Naral

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/07/10
Posts: 735

9/18/12 6:28:21 AM#57

I love the lack of a trinity. That being said, on my server anyway, it is not a "come as you are" dungeon setting. LFG spam is still full of groups looking for specific specs.

So, while the tank/healer/dps trinity might be gone, on our server people still do look for specifically tailors toons for different roles.

  ironhelix

Novice Member

Joined: 5/13/08
Posts: 465

9/18/12 6:31:08 AM#58

Yeah, I miss it. I have rolled 3 different characters, and they all feel more or less the same. It's as if they made one class, then reskinned it 8 times. Sure, there is some slight variation, but they all play about the same.

  Loke666

Elite Member

Joined: 10/29/07
Posts: 16040

9/18/12 6:34:19 AM#59
Originally posted by Naral

I love the lack of a trinity. That being said, on my server anyway, it is not a "come as you are" dungeon setting. LFG spam is still full of groups looking for specific specs.

So, while the tank/healer/dps trinity might be gone, on our server people still do look for specifically tailors toons for different roles.

Yeah, but you cant really restrict that without restricting the game too much. Some people like having a guardian in the group, or an ele and if they would limit that in any way you would get the same problem as in other game.

Join a smaller guild, they usually are not so picky and there you have the advantage that you can tune yourself together with the other players for maximum use of your group. PUGing have always been varied in any game anyways.

  Nadia

Elite Member

Joined: 7/26/03
Posts: 10812

9/18/12 6:37:06 AM#60
Originally posted by ironhelix

Yeah, I miss it. I have rolled 3 different characters, and they all feel more or less the same. It's as if they made one class, then reskinned it 8 times. Sure, there is some slight variation, but they all play about the same.

try engineer if you havent

 

as an engineer 

try using the kits you have to skill unlock and replaces your weapon 

 

both the mesmer and engineer feel very different to me

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