Originally posted by Nadia

Originally posted by SaintPhilip

So if you dont like 'teh lewtz' why play a game with any levels, progression or anything at all? Why not play a game where there is no loot at all and everyone is 100% the same at all times.

People like 'teh lootz' and treasure, and uniquness and being recognized for good play, etc...Most people, in fact. I enjoy finding better weapons and armor (or crafting them) which is why I play these games. If I wasnt worried at all about progressing my gear I would p-lay one of the hundreds of games that require no gear and hell, have no persistance at all.

i dont think you can relate to people that play mmos for other reasons than having nicer gear

its not a matter of disliking the loots, the issue is enjoying the game beyond the loot

 

using myself as an example,

 

Everquests 3rd expansion was Luclin, it was an expansion i didnt like except for the new system of AA

 

so i spent the full year running pickup dungeon groups in Kunark dungeons

- there was no gear to be had, I already had it or didnt want it

- i was already level 60, there were no levels for me to increase

- the only thing i got for character progression was coin, gems, and AA points

 

i had alot of fun running pickup groups in non-instanced kunark dungeons during that year (2002)

*THIS*

My first MMO was Asheron's Call. My third was Eve Online. 

I only mention those two, despite the myriad of others I played, because AC was my 'virgin' experience and Eve was about skill and tactics. A lot of people don't understand why I prefer that style of game. I sort of understand the gear focused group, because I admit i LOVE looting a corpse to see what I got. But at the end, I played Eve far more/longer than any other game because of the anti 'rock-paper-scissors' aspect.

We're all talking about WoW here, let's be honest. And for what WoW offers, it does it really well. I played it, but I never really enjoyed it. I certainly never enjoyed the PVP. We've all extolled the virtues of Rock-Paper-Scissors, but I've come to loathe it. If Scissors always beats Paper, and I always play paper, Scissors is always going to beat me.

Eve and GW suggest a different mechanic: There is a counter for everything. In Eve, cruisers were bigger than frigates, but you could outfit and tactic your way into using a frigate to beat a cruiser. A swarm of frigates COULD take out a battleship. OR, the battleship could take out the swarm of frigates if we was outfitted specifically for it, but then he'd be less useful against cruisers and other battleships.

GW requires you to make choices in your skills and tactics. As Taugrim pointed in a recent blog, you CAN make a build oriented 100% around CC/control. And you're going to sacrifice dps and other things to do it. But even then, it doesn't  automatically mean you can't beat someone in a 1v1. It comes down to the player skill and how well they know their class and yours.

Originally posted by cahenderson

Originally posted by SaintPhilip

Originally posted by cahenderson

Originally posted by EricDanie

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by SaintPhilip

I will watch the Video later if I have time- But honestly I do not need to...Pretty sure I know whats said.

I agree too- It does lack longevity. Its not a full fledged MMORPG (more like an ARPG with Massive Online components). Its very casual...

But, its fun. And it doesnt need Longevity like a subscription title,

GW2 has done some very creative marketing and essentially sold a F2P cash shop game for $50- $60. Then they will get a small Xpac out every year or so for another $40- $50. Most have at least purchased Bag space from the CS... They are making money hand over fist and do not NEED high player retention (just enough to keep the servers active) and each Xpac will bring an influx of former players back to the game for a short time.

This was a genius marketing Blitz. And the game is fun.

No. It doesnt have "staying power" and if it were based on a "sub" I would feel pretty ripped off and (obviously) not re sub...But they already sold me a box and some Bag Space and I play a few hours a week (and plan to play at a casual rate) and it makes a nice second Online game to play while taking a break from your main Game.

I am happy.

curious in your opinion as to how it's not a full fledged MMO? 

My guess is because there is no gear grind to become and/or remain competitive. It is there for vanity (in the end it's just a game, even stats are for vanity), it's just not mandatory and it's not padded with weekly/daily timers either.

Yeah, there's a certain type of player that can only measure their success by the 'teh lewtz' they get. GW2 isn't the game for them.

Hmmmm- See I think you are trying to make something Black or White that is actually shades of grey.

So if you dont like 'teh lewtz' why play a game with any levels, progression or anything at all? Why not play a game where there is no loot at all and everyone is 100% the same at all times.

People like 'teh lootz' and treasure, and uniquness and being recognized for good play, etc...Most people, in fact. I enjoy finding better weapons and armor (or crafting them) which is why I play these games. If I wasnt worried at all about progressing my gear I would p-lay one of the hundreds of games that require no gear and hell, have no persistance at all.

 

And that's fine. Games like WoW/LotRO/SWTOR, they all orient around the gear treadmill. Generally, how you progress in those games is by acquisition of better gear. You run dungeons to get dungeon gear, which makes it possible for you to do Beginner Raid, which gives you Rank1 gear which means you can now do Intermediate Raid. Same for the pvp in those games.

 

GW2 is NOT that game. It is a continuance of the philosophy they established in GW1. Whether it was in PVE or PVP, the gear was the same level. The progression became how much better YOU got at your character. Yes, the gear treadmill games DO require some level of player skill. However, the focus was on the GEAR. The GW franchise is about YOU progressing. 

 

"But that's not really progression" I hear people say. From your perspective, it's not. However, as much as 'you' are baffled by this, the rest of 'us' are almost equally baffled by the gear treadmill. "What do you do once you have the best gear?" we ask.

"Now? Now we PLAY THE GAME"....

The context of my post was a responce to someone who I felt was trivializing the importance of gear in an mmorpg (even GW2). You are making this a whole seperate issue- But I agree with you , as it were. I am not defending WoWs gear treadmill but rather saying it adds longevity to the game.

See, this isnt about "fun " factor, or which "game" is best, etc anymore than its about graphics.

Its about longevity. It about what will keep someone playing. 

That aside, with no sub and 18 billion boxes sold, GW2 is a success (its niot about failure or success either). We are 3 weeks or so in and I and others feel there isnt enough to hold our attention for long...This isnt GW2 VS [insert game]

Originally posted by cahenderson

Originally posted by SaintPhilip

Originally posted by cahenderson

Originally posted by EricDanie

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by SaintPhilip

I will watch the Video later if I have time- But honestly I do not need to...Pretty sure I know whats said.

I agree too- It does lack longevity. Its not a full fledged MMORPG (more like an ARPG with Massive Online components). Its very casual...

But, its fun. And it doesnt need Longevity like a subscription title,

GW2 has done some very creative marketing and essentially sold a F2P cash shop game for $50- $60. Then they will get a small Xpac out every year or so for another $40- $50. Most have at least purchased Bag space from the CS... They are making money hand over fist and do not NEED high player retention (just enough to keep the servers active) and each Xpac will bring an influx of former players back to the game for a short time.

This was a genius marketing Blitz. And the game is fun.

No. It doesnt have "staying power" and if it were based on a "sub" I would feel pretty ripped off and (obviously) not re sub...But they already sold me a box and some Bag Space and I play a few hours a week (and plan to play at a casual rate) and it makes a nice second Online game to play while taking a break from your main Game.

I am happy.

curious in your opinion as to how it's not a full fledged MMO? 

My guess is because there is no gear grind to become and/or remain competitive. It is there for vanity (in the end it's just a game, even stats are for vanity), it's just not mandatory and it's not padded with weekly/daily timers either.

Yeah, there's a certain type of player that can only measure their success by the 'teh lewtz' they get. GW2 isn't the game for them.

Hmmmm- See I think you are trying to make something Black or White that is actually shades of grey.

So if you dont like 'teh lewtz' why play a game with any levels, progression or anything at all? Why not play a game where there is no loot at all and everyone is 100% the same at all times.

People like 'teh lootz' and treasure, and uniquness and being recognized for good play, etc...Most people, in fact. I enjoy finding better weapons and armor (or crafting them) which is why I play these games. If I wasnt worried at all about progressing my gear I would p-lay one of the hundreds of games that require no gear and hell, have no persistance at all.

 

And that's fine. Games like WoW/LotRO/SWTOR, they all orient around the gear treadmill. Generally, how you progress in those games is by acquisition of better gear. You run dungeons to get dungeon gear, which makes it possible for you to do Beginner Raid, which gives you Rank1 gear which means you can now do Intermediate Raid. Same for the pvp in those games.

 

GW2 is NOT that game. It is a continuance of the philosophy they established in GW1. Whether it was in PVE or PVP, the gear was the same level. The progression became how much better YOU got at your character. Yes, the gear treadmill games DO require some level of player skill. However, the focus was on the GEAR. The GW franchise is about YOU progressing. 

 

"But that's not really progression" I hear people say. From your perspective, it's not. However, as much as 'you' are baffled by this, the rest of 'us' are almost equally baffled by the gear treadmill. "What do you do once you have the best gear?" we ask.

"Now? Now we PLAY THE GAME"....

For myself I found gear was not my driving force in the long run but in the later zones (level 75 -80 and 80)  I found myself engage in bigger fight/war that was raging and the events really required the effort of a lot of players and from various events to prepare for the bigger ones which required a full front war effort.  For example Lyssa event comes to mind, this one kept me coming back with newly recruited players and wanting to accomplish it since it really did help everyone in the end as it opened up access to skill point challenges, gear, spawn points and other missions.  So in the end it was seeing what I would be doing/accomplishing with others, rather than just thinking about what I would get in return (armor), I felt part of the world.   Immersion is the key and I feel that if they can make it just as dynamic and more immersive in the sense that everything you do in the zone does affect other players than it will have great longevity.  

On a side note though, I do have a too much time on my hands since I'm on standby for major surgery this friday(been waiting for the past two months)  that I did blow through the content fairly fast and found that I had to break for a day or two before returning (which ties into the fundamentals of level design.  Players do get tired physically, mentally from doing too much for too long).  Any ways now i'm ranting but just my thoughts.

Originally posted by Enigmatus

Originally posted by cahenderson

"But that's not really progression" I hear people say. From your perspective, it's not. However, as much as 'you' are baffled by this, the rest of 'us' are almost equally baffled by the gear treadmill. "What do you do once you have the best gear?" we ask.

"Now? Now we PLAY THE GAME"....

I don't wanna sound like I'm ragging on WoW, but that part always confused me. If you only start playing the game AFTER you get all that loot, then what the hell were we doing for the past 90 levels?!

Exactly. Hence the GW2 assertion "We want the entire game to be endgame". 

Originally posted by SaintPhilip

Originally posted by cahenderson

Originally posted by SaintPhilip

Originally posted by cahenderson

Yeah, there's a certain type of player that can only measure their success by the 'teh lewtz' they get. GW2 isn't the game for them.

Hmmmm- See I think you are trying to make something Black or White that is actually shades of grey.

So if you dont like 'teh lewtz' why play a game with any levels, progression or anything at all? Why not play a game where there is no loot at all and everyone is 100% the same at all times.

People like 'teh lootz' and treasure, and uniquness and being recognized for good play, etc...Most people, in fact. I enjoy finding better weapons and armor (or crafting them) which is why I play these games. If I wasnt worried at all about progressing my gear I would p-lay one of the hundreds of games that require no gear and hell, have no persistance at all.

 

And that's fine. Games like WoW/LotRO/SWTOR, they all orient around the gear treadmill. Generally, how you progress in those games is by acquisition of better gear. You run dungeons to get dungeon gear, which makes it possible for you to do Beginner Raid, which gives you Rank1 gear which means you can now do Intermediate Raid. Same for the pvp in those games.

 

GW2 is NOT that game. It is a continuance of the philosophy they established in GW1. Whether it was in PVE or PVP, the gear was the same level. The progression became how much better YOU got at your character. Yes, the gear treadmill games DO require some level of player skill. However, the focus was on the GEAR. The GW franchise is about YOU progressing. 

 

"But that's not really progression" I hear people say. From your perspective, it's not. However, as much as 'you' are baffled by this, the rest of 'us' are almost equally baffled by the gear treadmill. "What do you do once you have the best gear?" we ask.

"Now? Now we PLAY THE GAME"....

The context of my post was a responce to someone who I felt was trivializing the importance of gear in an mmorpg (even GW2). You are making this a whole seperate issue- But I agree with you , as it were. I am not defending WoWs gear treadmill but rather saying it adds longevity to the game.

See, this isnt about "fun " factor, or which "game" is best, etc anymore than its about graphics.

Its about longevity. It about what will keep someone playing. 

That aside, with no sub and 18 billion boxes sold, GW2 is a success (its niot about failure or success either). We are 3 weeks or so in and I and others feel there isnt enough to hold our attention for long...This isnt GW2 VS [insert game]

Trimming out some of the stuff to keep this down...

I understand your point and I agree we're not as far apart in the argument as either of us originally thought. BUT... You can't say you doubt the games longevity because it lacks the gear progression WITHOUT drawing comparisons to the games that DO have it.

You said, "Its about longevity. It about what will keep someone playing." You're asserting the thing that keeps you playing is the gear progression. I'm saying it IS the fun factor and the LACK of the gear progression that keeps me playing. Because I don't have the gear progression to rate my improvement, I have to do it via other means. *I* have to get better at playing my profession and it is in THIS aspect I find the most "fun factor" and "longevity".

Originally posted by Jimmydean

.....

Really? Because I'm level 80, and getting full exotics is a hell of a grind. 42k karma per horribly statted piece, many G worth of mats for a horribly statted crafted set, or run countless explorable dungeons for the actual good exotics. I don't remember heroic dungeon gear / PVP gear being difficult / time consuming to get in WoW.

Yep exactly!  This is the paradox of the game, and its PR hype.  Lets complain about every other game's grind and yet have the one of the most grindy end games of all.  A grind that matters very much in WvWvW.

Originally posted by ElSandman

Originally posted by Jimmydean

.....

Really? Because I'm level 80, and getting full exotics is a hell of a grind. 42k karma per horribly statted piece, many G worth of mats for a horribly statted crafted set, or run countless explorable dungeons for the actual good exotics. I don't remember heroic dungeon gear / PVP gear being difficult / time consuming to get in WoW.

Yep exactly!  This is the paradox of the game, and its PR hype.  Lets complain about every other game's grind and yet have the one of the most grindy end games of all.  A grind that matters very much in WvWvW.

LOL this is funny-

I will tell you why. If there really is a "grind" at the end (for non cosmetics) then I have been misinformed and my point(s) is/are moot. I was under the assumption that at 80 everyone was pretty well the same via gear (statwise) and only cosmetics could change.

IF you are correct this voids at lease most of my argument about longevity (other than the interdependence/social areas) but also kinda sucks =D

Originally posted by cahenderson

Originally posted by Enigmatus

Originally posted by cahenderson

"But that's not really progression" I hear people say. From your perspective, it's not. However, as much as 'you' are baffled by this, the rest of 'us' are almost equally baffled by the gear treadmill. "What do you do once you have the best gear?" we ask.

"Now? Now we PLAY THE GAME"....

I don't wanna sound like I'm ragging on WoW, but that part always confused me. If you only start playing the game AFTER you get all that loot, then what the hell were we doing for the past 90 levels?!

Exactly. Hence the GW2 assertion "We want the entire game to be endgame". 

But most of what players have labled as "endgame" in GW2, isn't. I remember doing what has generally been described as endgame in GW2, back in TBC WoW after hitting 70 so I could afford epic flight training. Going back, hitting up all the quests I missed, finishing the zones I didn't complete along the way. It's really not endgame, it's not new, and it's been done.

Originally posted by SaintPhilip

Originally posted by ElSandman

Originally posted by Jimmydean

.....

Really? Because I'm level 80, and getting full exotics is a hell of a grind. 42k karma per horribly statted piece, many G worth of mats for a horribly statted crafted set, or run countless explorable dungeons for the actual good exotics. I don't remember heroic dungeon gear / PVP gear being difficult / time consuming to get in WoW.

Yep exactly!  This is the paradox of the game, and its PR hype.  Lets complain about every other game's grind and yet have the one of the most grindy end games of all.  A grind that matters very much in WvWvW.

LOL this is funny-

I will tell you why. If there really is a "grind" at the end (for non cosmetics) then I have been misinformed and my point(s) is/are moot. I was under the assumption that at 80 everyone was pretty well the same via gear (statwise) and only cosmetics could change.

IF you are correct this voids at lease most of my argument about longevity (other than the interdependence/social areas) but also kinda sucks =D

Perhaps, but the question I would ask, is do you really want to get on this gear grind in this high unsocial game in the first place?

I am not really hearing that these dungeons are well designed, great fun experiences.  I am hearing that they are chaotic, zerg-fests resulting  in expensive repair bills (Cash shop anyone?).

So yes, you are right that it is a good thing that you have to earn your end game gear, but do you really want to in this game?

Originally posted by ElSandman

Originally posted by SaintPhilip

Originally posted by ElSandman

Originally posted by Jimmydean

.....

Really? Because I'm level 80, and getting full exotics is a hell of a grind. 42k karma per horribly statted piece, many G worth of mats for a horribly statted crafted set, or run countless explorable dungeons for the actual good exotics. I don't remember heroic dungeon gear / PVP gear being difficult / time consuming to get in WoW.

Yep exactly!  This is the paradox of the game, and its PR hype.  Lets complain about every other game's grind and yet have the one of the most grindy end games of all.  A grind that matters very much in WvWvW.

LOL this is funny-

I will tell you why. If there really is a "grind" at the end (for non cosmetics) then I have been misinformed and my point(s) is/are moot. I was under the assumption that at 80 everyone was pretty well the same via gear (statwise) and only cosmetics could change.

IF you are correct this voids at lease most of my argument about longevity (other than the interdependence/social areas) but also kinda sucks =D

Perhaps, but the question I would ask, is do you really want to get on this gear grind in this high unsocial game in the first place?

I am not really hearing that these dungeons are well designed, great fun experiences.  I am hearing that they are chaotic, zerg-fests resulting  in expensive repair bills (Cash shop anyone?).

So yes, you are right that it is a good thing that you have to earn your end game gear, but do you really want to in this game?

 

Are we gaining this enlightenment from someone who doesn't play the game?

Originally posted by Terrorizor

Originally posted by ElSandman

Originally posted by SaintPhilip

Originally posted by ElSandman

Originally posted by Jimmydean

.....

Really? Because I'm level 80, and getting full exotics is a hell of a grind. 42k karma per horribly statted piece, many G worth of mats for a horribly statted crafted set, or run countless explorable dungeons for the actual good exotics. I don't remember heroic dungeon gear / PVP gear being difficult / time consuming to get in WoW.

Yep exactly!  This is the paradox of the game, and its PR hype.  Lets complain about every other game's grind and yet have the one of the most grindy end games of all.  A grind that matters very much in WvWvW.

LOL this is funny-

I will tell you why. If there really is a "grind" at the end (for non cosmetics) then I have been misinformed and my point(s) is/are moot. I was under the assumption that at 80 everyone was pretty well the same via gear (statwise) and only cosmetics could change.

IF you are correct this voids at lease most of my argument about longevity (other than the interdependence/social areas) but also kinda sucks =D

Perhaps, but the question I would ask, is do you really want to get on this gear grind in this high unsocial game in the first place?

I am not really hearing that these dungeons are well designed, great fun experiences.  I am hearing that they are chaotic, zerg-fests resulting  in expensive repair bills (Cash shop anyone?).

So yes, you are right that it is a good thing that you have to earn your end game gear, but do you really want to in this game?

 

Are we gaining this enlightenment from someone who doesn't play the game?

I have a level 32 thief and a level 16 Mesmer.

Originally posted by GeezerGamer

Originally posted by TheIronLegion
Ah I see the major issue here. Let me fix this for you. "Why GW2 Lacks Longevity [for me]". There we go!

No, he's talking about why he thinks the average MMO player will lose interest. I happen to agree with him.

If we look at sandboxes, we have the focus on building an environment that everyone can play in. The focus is on the world itself, and buidling that which goes into establishing it.

Themepark MMOs coma along and say, No, you aren't building this world. You get to play in it, but you can build your characters.

GW2 come along and says, NO, you can't build your world here, we already have. You cannot invest in your character, you can only build it to a certan point and then not beyond anyone else. Unless you want to look great being average. 

 

LOL, GW2 is like virtual communism.

Why don't you go say that to GW2's face! But seriously, Look at GW1. Extremely successful in terms of longevity and content. Every expansion was equal in size to the original game(if not bigger) and added a plethora of new content. Arenanet has kept a remarkable track record for releasing content at a very steady rate and releasing it by the metric butt tons. It will hold interests for quite some time. Especially for those who are die hard GW fans and love the mythos.

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by SaintPhilip

I will watch the Video later if I have time- But honestly I do not need to...Pretty sure I know whats said.

I agree too- It does lack longevity. Its not a full fledged MMORPG (more like an ARPG with Massive Online components). Its very casual...

But, its fun. And it doesnt need Longevity like a subscription title,

GW2 has done some very creative marketing and essentially sold a F2P cash shop game for $50- $60. Then they will get a small Xpac out every year or so for another $40- $50. Most have at least purchased Bag space from the CS... They are making money hand over fist and do not NEED high player retention (just enough to keep the servers active) and each Xpac will bring an influx of former players back to the game for a short time.

This was a genius marketing Blitz. And the game is fun.

No. It doesnt have "staying power" and if it were based on a "sub" I would feel pretty ripped off and (obviously) not re sub...But they already sold me a box and some Bag Space and I play a few hours a week (and plan to play at a casual rate) and it makes a nice second Online game to play while taking a break from your main Game.

I am happy.

curious in your opinion as to how it's not a full fledged MMO? 

Some people are always online here defending the game instead of playing?  

Originally posted by ElSandman

Perhaps, but the question I would ask, is do you really want to get on this gear grind in this high unsocial game in the first place?

I am not really hearing that these dungeons are well designed, great fun experiences.  I am hearing that they are chaotic, zerg-fests resulting  in expensive repair bills (Cash shop anyone?).

So yes, you are right that it is a good thing that you have to earn your end game gear, but do you really want to in this game?

 

Are we gaining this enlightenment from someone who doesn't play the game?

I have a level 32 thief and a level 16 Mesmer.

i did AC the other day was a "great fun experience" imho.. also how do you zerg in a 5 man dungeon? can you zerg with any number of people? is the entire time I'm soloing just me zerging everywhere?  .. curious how you zerg a dungeon when the mobs greatly outnumber the amount of players

Originally posted by Clawzon

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by SaintPhilip

I will watch the Video later if I have time- But honestly I do not need to...Pretty sure I know whats said.

I agree too- It does lack longevity. Its not a full fledged MMORPG (more like an ARPG with Massive Online components). Its very casual...

But, its fun. And it doesnt need Longevity like a subscription title,

GW2 has done some very creative marketing and essentially sold a F2P cash shop game for $50- $60. Then they will get a small Xpac out every year or so for another $40- $50. Most have at least purchased Bag space from the CS... They are making money hand over fist and do not NEED high player retention (just enough to keep the servers active) and each Xpac will bring an influx of former players back to the game for a short time.

This was a genius marketing Blitz. And the game is fun.

No. It doesnt have "staying power" and if it were based on a "sub" I would feel pretty ripped off and (obviously) not re sub...But they already sold me a box and some Bag Space and I play a few hours a week (and plan to play at a casual rate) and it makes a nice second Online game to play while taking a break from your main Game.

I am happy.

curious in your opinion as to how it's not a full fledged MMO? 

Some people are always online here defending the game instead of playing?  

if I was home i'd be playing I can assure you:)

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by ElSandman

Perhaps, but the question I would ask, is do you really want to get on this gear grind in this high unsocial game in the first place?

I am not really hearing that these dungeons are well designed, great fun experiences.  I am hearing that they are chaotic, zerg-fests resulting  in expensive repair bills (Cash shop anyone?).

So yes, you are right that it is a good thing that you have to earn your end game gear, but do you really want to in this game?

 

Are we gaining this enlightenment from someone who doesn't play the game?

I have a level 32 thief and a level 16 Mesmer.

i did AC the other day was a "great fun experience" imho.. also how do you zerg in a 5 man dungeon? can you zerg with any number of people? is the entire time I'm soloing just me zerging everywhere?  .. curious how you zerg a dungeon when the mobs greatly outnumber the amount of players

 

Zerging in the sense of die, respawn close to the fight, re-enter fight.  Rinse repeat until boss dead.

Originally posted by ElSandman

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by ElSandman

Perhaps, but the question I would ask, is do you really want to get on this gear grind in this high unsocial game in the first place?

I am not really hearing that these dungeons are well designed, great fun experiences.  I am hearing that they are chaotic, zerg-fests resulting  in expensive repair bills (Cash shop anyone?).

So yes, you are right that it is a good thing that you have to earn your end game gear, but do you really want to in this game?

 

Are we gaining this enlightenment from someone who doesn't play the game?

I have a level 32 thief and a level 16 Mesmer.

i did AC the other day was a "great fun experience" imho.. also how do you zerg in a 5 man dungeon? can you zerg with any number of people? is the entire time I'm soloing just me zerging everywhere?  .. curious how you zerg a dungeon when the mobs greatly outnumber the amount of players

 

Zerging in the sense of die, respawn close to the fight, re-enter fight.  Rinse repeat until boss dead.

 

Ya pretty lame dungeon experience for sure.

Originally posted by ElSandman

Originally posted by SaintPhilip

Originally posted by ElSandman

Originally posted by Jimmydean

.....

Really? Because I'm level 80, and getting full exotics is a hell of a grind. 42k karma per horribly statted piece, many G worth of mats for a horribly statted crafted set, or run countless explorable dungeons for the actual good exotics. I don't remember heroic dungeon gear / PVP gear being difficult / time consuming to get in WoW.

Yep exactly!  This is the paradox of the game, and its PR hype.  Lets complain about every other game's grind and yet have the one of the most grindy end games of all.  A grind that matters very much in WvWvW.

LOL this is funny-

I will tell you why. If there really is a "grind" at the end (for non cosmetics) then I have been misinformed and my point(s) is/are moot. I was under the assumption that at 80 everyone was pretty well the same via gear (statwise) and only cosmetics could change.

IF you are correct this voids at lease most of my argument about longevity (other than the interdependence/social areas) but also kinda sucks =D

Perhaps, but the question I would ask, is do you really want to get on this gear grind in this high unsocial game in the first place?

I am not really hearing that these dungeons are well designed, great fun experiences.  I am hearing that they are chaotic, zerg-fests resulting  in expensive repair bills (Cash shop anyone?).

So yes, you are right that it is a good thing that you have to earn your end game gear, but do you really want to in this game?

 

Have you actually done any of the dungeons or are you just grasping at straws. As someone has already asked, how do you zerg in a 5man group when the mobs greatly outnumber you? By that logic wouldnt a WoW raid be a massive zerg of epic proportions? How does a repair bill equal out to you spending money in the cash shop. Your repair bill is like what a few silver. Unless your stupidly broke then its a drop in the bucket. Theres no reason you need to use the gems store to repair your armor. That's like saying I need to read The Bible to find out more about Scientology. To me you sound like a hater who forced themselves to play the game just so they can say "Oh I've played the game..." when people make a point to you...sort of like you've already done...

Originally posted by ElSandman

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by ElSandman

Perhaps, but the question I would ask, is do you really want to get on this gear grind in this high unsocial game in the first place?

I am not really hearing that these dungeons are well designed, great fun experiences.  I am hearing that they are chaotic, zerg-fests resulting  in expensive repair bills (Cash shop anyone?).

So yes, you are right that it is a good thing that you have to earn your end game gear, but do you really want to in this game?

 

Are we gaining this enlightenment from someone who doesn't play the game?

I have a level 32 thief and a level 16 Mesmer.

i did AC the other day was a "great fun experience" imho.. also how do you zerg in a 5 man dungeon? can you zerg with any number of people? is the entire time I'm soloing just me zerging everywhere?  .. curious how you zerg a dungeon when the mobs greatly outnumber the amount of players

 

Zerging in the sense of die, respawn close to the fight, re-enter fight.  Rinse repeat until boss dead.

 

only works if you can keep someone alive fighting each time...good luck with that