Originally posted by TheIronLegion

...

Yes we'll have fun with our game where we ALL have to think for ourselves instead of standing still spaming 1,2, and 3 and putting all the pressure on the healer. Because letting one person do all the work is totally fun. I enjoy having to watch my own hide and no longer having to rely on that person who may or may not be a good healer. There is no role synergy, but there are still group dynamics and communication is key. But the fact remains...you're responsible for your own hide.

Yeah tank and spanks do exist, but so do numerous world boss fights in dynamic events in GW2 where you can basically stand still with a ranged attack on auto-fire and still pick up a gold medal contribution.

The better dungeon content in other MMOs, tends to have a lot of necessary movement and coordination between roles.

Not trying to convinve you or anyone else, just explaining why I am not particulalry excited by GW2 dungeons.

Originally posted by eggy08

Originally posted by Lorkii

Originally posted by TheIronLegion

Originally posted by ElSandman

Originally posted by eggy08

Originally posted by ElSandman

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by ElSandman

Perhaps, but the question I would ask, is do you really want to get on this gear grind in this high unsocial game in the first place?

I am not really hearing that these dungeons are well designed, great fun experiences.  I am hearing that they are chaotic, zerg-fests resulting  in expensive repair bills (Cash shop anyone?).

So yes, you are right that it is a good thing that you have to earn your end game gear, but do you really want to in this game?

 

Are we gaining this enlightenment from someone who doesn't play the game?

I have a level 32 thief and a level 16 Mesmer.

i did AC the other day was a "great fun experience" imho.. also how do you zerg in a 5 man dungeon? can you zerg with any number of people? is the entire time I'm soloing just me zerging everywhere?  .. curious how you zerg a dungeon when the mobs greatly outnumber the amount of players

 

Zerging in the sense of die, respawn close to the fight, re-enter fight.  Rinse repeat until boss dead.

 

Ya... that might work for some fights but not all. If you honestly think thats the solution, then lets throw 5 people with that mentality in a group, you'll probably wipe to the boss because you clearly don't know the mechanics or how to dodge and mitigate damage. But if thats what you call downing a boss in your books, then by all means. I've seen guilds do a raid for over 18 hours before. Pretty sure thats as zerg as it gets. I'll laugh at you and anyone with that logic all day because I stay alive and not have to spend any gold repairing my gear while I watch you guys fall to the ground and die because you clearly don't know what a red circle means. Then watch you do the long walk of shame back to the boss because you clearly don't get it. Have fun with that experience though.

Well actually, I am probably just going to avoid the experience altogether, since in my opinion boss dungeon/raid fights are done better in other games where role synergies and communication play a part.  You have fun with your dodge/roll though.

 

Yes we'll have fun with our game where we ALL have to think for ourselves instead of standing still spaming 1,2, and 3 and putting all the pressure on the healer. Because letting one person do all the work is totally fun. I enjoy having to watch my own hide and no longer having to rely on that person who may or may not be a good healer. There is no role synergy, but there are still group dynamics and communication is key. But the fact remains...you're responsible for your own hide.

Wow, you serioussly think it s just one person doing the work. You obviously never played with a good group or a game that everyone has to be smart or contribute. FFXI, is a great example of a good group synergy needed to stay alive. GW2 in comparison is a joke in comparison.

I gotz one role. I heal the tank. or sit in front of boss. or spam skills to do damage. I don't need to follow fight mechanics because the bosses are cattered around us following our specific roles and the healer can pickup my slack or the tank can make sure I take no damage. Man dem roles be so complicated and hard.

I have yet to actually have fun in an mmo with raid or instance because I either watch the bosses health, watch the aggro meter or watch the healing meter to play the game. I don't get to experience the fight. But you people enjoy staring at them bars, I'll enjoy actually having fun experiencing the fight.

I hate to tell you this, but GW2 will never get away from zerg fights. There are limits that are working in conjunction that will prettymuch ensure that the GW2 Trinity-less mechanics will never become mainstream adaptations in other MMOs.

In traditional mechanics dodge is a stat that's built into your character. It's handled by RNG mechanics and damage is mitigated accordingly. Now, we have dodge as a manual skill which requires a much higer level of situational awareness than before. And while it's fun like in console games, there is a limit to the amount of information that a person can process. This Condition/boon system requires that all players be situationally aware of the conditions of everyone in the team. Just how well can the average casual gamer adapt to this? It's been called "skill" in GW2. lol, Learning to recognize visual queues and respond accodingly is indeed a skill. But its one we teach to small children and not difficult to master. And while this makes the game more exciting and fun....like a console game, it's got limits. Even the best most coordinated teams would probably begin to break down with much bigger groups in instances.  Now combine this with the lack of   Role focused tanking and healing and now boss fights  must cater more to the individuals. So we can't have these huge bosses with big hits. I'm sure one or the other would handle better, but both mechanics at the same time. Good luck. Best you can do is tweak their AOEs. So now these large fights degenerate into a mass of players running around trying not to stand in red circles while getting as many hits in as possible between boss attacks. Just one big "every man for himself" session

YAY! FUN!

Originally posted by GeezerGamer

...

I hate to tell you this, but GW2 will never get away from zerg fights. There are limits that are working in conjunction that will prettymuch ensure that the GW2 Trinity-less mechanics will never become mainstream adaptations in other MMOs.

In traditional mechanics dodge is a stat that's built into your character. It's handled by RNG mechanics and damage is mitigated accordingly. Now, we have dodge as a manual skill which requires a much higer level of situational awareness than before. And while it's fun like in console games, there is a limit to the amount of information that a person can process. This Condition/boon system requires that all players be situationally aware of the conditions of everyone in the team. Just how well can the average casual gamer adapt to this? It's been called "skill" in GW2. lol, Learning to recognize visual queues and respond accodingly is indeed a skill. But its one we teach to small children and not difficult to master. And while this makes the game more exciting and fun....like a console game, it's got limits. Even the best most coordinated teams would probably begin to break down with much bigger groups in instances.  Now combine this with the lack of   Role focused tanking and healing and now boss fights  must cater more to the individuals. So we can't have these huge bosses with big hits. I'm sure one or the other would handle better, but both mechanics at the same time. Good luck. Best you can do is tweak their AOEs. So now these large fights degenerate into a mass of players running around trying not to stand in red circles while getting as many hits in as possible between boss attacks. Just one big "every man for himself" session

YAY! FUN!

Yep!  This is why there are no raids in GW2 and there never will be.

Originally posted by ElSandman

Originally posted by TheIronLegion

...

Yes we'll have fun with our game where we ALL have to think for ourselves instead of standing still spaming 1,2, and 3 and putting all the pressure on the healer. Because letting one person do all the work is totally fun. I enjoy having to watch my own hide and no longer having to rely on that person who may or may not be a good healer. There is no role synergy, but there are still group dynamics and communication is key. But the fact remains...you're responsible for your own hide.

Yeah tank and spanks do exist, but so do numerous world boss fights in dynamic events in GW2 where you can basically stand still with a ranged attack on auto-fire and still pick up a gold medal contribution.

 

The better dungeon content in other MMOs, tends to have a lot of necessary movement and coordination between roles.

 

Not trying to convinve you or anyone else, just explaining why I am not particulalry excited by GW2 dungeons.

ill use Rift as an example as I played that the longest of recent MMOs.. not a single regular mode dungeon in Rift requires anyone to say a single word as long as people know the basics of the fights.. now obviously in GW2 if you know the dungeon you will find it a TON easier.. the thing is in GW2 dungeons have a lot of extra mechanics to them such as traps and such all over the place that add even more of a challenge and require you to be a bit more aware of whats going on. Not saying GW2 requires constant communication or anything in story modes but does require you to be much more aware of your surroundings than say Rifts dungeons.. They are just differnt and a lot is due to the combat mechanics and lack of the trinity but honestly I'd just try a dungeon.. you said yuo have a level 30 something so jump into AC and try it out... one thing though if you go in wanting to hate something 9 times out of 10 you will leave hating it as well.. just a thought..

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by ElSandman

Originally posted by TheIronLegion

...

Yes we'll have fun with our game where we ALL have to think for ourselves instead of standing still spaming 1,2, and 3 and putting all the pressure on the healer. Because letting one person do all the work is totally fun. I enjoy having to watch my own hide and no longer having to rely on that person who may or may not be a good healer. There is no role synergy, but there are still group dynamics and communication is key. But the fact remains...you're responsible for your own hide.

Yeah tank and spanks do exist, but so do numerous world boss fights in dynamic events in GW2 where you can basically stand still with a ranged attack on auto-fire and still pick up a gold medal contribution.

 

The better dungeon content in other MMOs, tends to have a lot of necessary movement and coordination between roles.

 

Not trying to convinve you or anyone else, just explaining why I am not particulalry excited by GW2 dungeons.

ill use Rift as an example as I played that the longest of recent MMOs.. not a single regular mode dungeon in Rift requires anyone to say a single word as long as people know the basics of the fights.. now obviously in GW2 if you know the dungeon you will find it a TON easier.. the thing is in GW2 dungeons have a lot of extra mechanics to them such as traps and such all over the place that add even more of a challenge and require you to be a bit more aware of whats going on. Not saying GW2 requires constant communication or anything in story modes but does require you to be much more aware of your surroundings than say Rifts dungeons.. They are just differnt and a lot is due to the combat mechanics and lack of the trinity but honestly I'd just try a dungeon.. you said yuo have a level 30 something so jump into AC and try it out... one thing though if you go in wanting to hate something 9 times out of 10 you will leave hating it as well.. just a thought..

I really don't want to hate it, just to be clear.  And in any event, hate is far too strong a word.  Meh would fti better (if it was a word).

I have never played Rift, so I am not going to comment  on its dungeon's, but I will concede the point you make that communication requirements drop when people know fights is of course true.  However, it does not mean they necessarily vanish completely.  For example in one of the raids I do there are two bosses that need to be taken down simultaneously, and if the health of the bosses gets out of sync by more than 5% they enrage.  There are other requirement for communication in that fight as well, but the point is well designed group content either needs that communication, or at least has enough going on to require well coordinated play.

We will see.  I may end up trying AC after all.

Whoever is talking int hat youtube clip couldnt be more in touch with reality.

Everything from the redflags he saw to his summary of what the gw2 defenders do...spot on.

If more gamers were like this guy in how they approached mmorpgs, we would have less trolling less broken hearts and i think people would buy games they would enjoy rather than buying games to be popular and giving into the hype.

Anyway...thanks for the link, really didnt think anyone used the same process when dealing with mmorpgs.

Really spot on...even though i dont think anyone here wants to hear with this guy has to say.

Originally posted by SuperXero89

Purely my opinion of course, but after playing GW2 and enjoying it to a degree, I don't see the game having very much longevity.  Want to find out why?  Click below:

(warning:  pretty long)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfIVT8vO8Ds&list=UUDxQGrgLy5mfqbyqfu5gCMQ&index=0&feature=plcp

Says the guy from this Youtube video of him only being level 25.

I am sorry but GW2 has more content then any MMO on the market and that includes WoW.  At any given time WoW only has 1-2 raids and 3-5 dungeons (the rest being obsolete thanks to vertical progression and sub par gear).  In GW2 everything is level appropriate and can be endgame.

Originally posted by redman875

Whoever is talking int hat youtube clip couldnt be more in touch with reality.

Everything from the redflags he saw to his summary of what the gw2 defenders do...spot on.

 

If more gamers were like this guy in how they approached mmorpgs, we would have less trolling less broken hearts and i think people would buy games they would enjoy rather than buying games to be popular and giving into the hype.

Anyway...thanks for the link, really didnt think anyone used the same process when dealing with mmorpgs.

Really spot on...even though i dont think anyone here wants to hear with this guy has to say.

 Less trolling would be awesome. You know like people who made accounts just in time for a launch for a game they just hack on in post after post. Yeah less of those people and we might have reasonable debates about a game. Sadly not gonna happen here.

Originally posted by toddze

Originally posted by Zylaxx

 

Says the guy from this Youtube video of him only being level 25.

 

I am sorry but GW2 has more content then any MMO on the market and that includes WoW.  At any given time WoW only has 1-2 raids and 3-5 dungeons (the rest being obsolete thanks to vertical progression and sub par gear).  In GW2 everything is level appropriate and can be endgame.

Whatever your smoking hook me up, or better yet start selling it, because you have some potent shit there. Just a tip you probably shouldnt post anymore because your giving the average GW2 fanboy a bad name. Next youll be calling GW2 Jesus.

 Why not find a game you like and spend time posting about that instead of spending so much time here trolling people and hating a game you dont play? It makes more sense to me to find joy in something instead of so much hate.

Originally posted by ElSandman

-snip-

Well actually, I am probably just going to avoid the experience altogether, since in my opinion boss dungeon/raid fights are done better in other games where role synergies and communication play a part.  You have fun with your dodge/roll though.

 

Originally posted by Castillle

Originally posted by ElSandman

-snip-

Well actually, I am probably just going to avoid the experience altogether, since in my opinion boss dungeon/raid fights are done better in other games where role synergies and communication play a part.  You have fun with your dodge/roll though.

 

Idk about you but Ive never had this many thoughts going through my head when I theorycraft group comps.  Its very much like a MOBA when theorycrafting the comps and it is downright awesome.

 Some people like the raids and bosses done like Vanguard. Where everyone knows the exact % of health a boss will perform X and at the exact health he performs Y. Then they think its some accomplishment to defeat a boss when the strat is like I just said.

Originally posted by Rokurgepta

Originally posted by Castillle

Originally posted by ElSandman

-snip-

Well actually, I am probably just going to avoid the experience altogether, since in my opinion boss dungeon/raid fights are done better in other games where role synergies and communication play a part.  You have fun with your dodge/roll though.

 

Idk about you but Ive never had this many thoughts going through my head when I theorycraft group comps.  Its very much like a MOBA when theorycrafting the comps and it is downright awesome.

 Some people like the raids and bosses done like Vanguard. Where everyone knows the exact % of health a boss will perform X and at the exact health he performs Y. Then they think its some accomplishment to defeat a boss when the strat is like I just said.

You mean.........There are actually people out there who enjoy these types of encounters becuse they give a sense of accomplishment? 

But......I read all over the place inthe GW2 forums that players who want to do the gear grind do it so they face roll over others.

I don't think any game has been able to determine the extent of it's own longevity or popularity to date.  The higher the expectation on their part , the worse they seem to do.

Likewise, players have been about as able to prognosticate such things as the game developers... Myself included.

If you like the game, play it or don't if you don't like it.

There seems to be a trend where games launch and people bash the game.

DCUO and SWTOR both launched with folks bashing the game and saying they should be F2P due to lacking content.

Now people are complaining about a game that is F2P with tons of content for both PvE and PVP regarding longevity.

Next we'll see complaints about why the game companies want you to buy their game at all... Or perhaps complaints about companies not buying you a computer to play their game on.

At this point, I am convinvced that MMO's aren't the right genre for many of the people playing them, their expectations aren't realistic...Or rather, the expectations are so realistic they resemble life itself.

Game companies can't give anyone that.

Longevity depends on the player. GW2 is not for everyone, that's a fact.

I want to have the same statted exotic armor and weapon transmuted with different skins (Norn cultural T1-T2-T3, Charr cultural weapons, cash shop skin, Vigil armor and weapon skins, etc) so I can change my look anytime with no stat change! :D I'm having lots of fun collecting these things and it's going to take me a long time to achieve my goals but I'm up for the challenge. And I only have 35% of the map unlocked (I've been lvl80 for a week now), I haven't even touched my alts and never tried PvP... Too many things to do and I enjoy every moment in-game. :)

For me games like WOW lacks longevity BIGTIME. I hate raiding and the PVP is stupid due to a no-skill required combat system. I played that crapfest for 4 months and only did a little bit of open world pvp and normal questing.

So as you can see it depends on the player. Some of us can play sPVP and WvWvW for years and not get bored.

Originally posted by SuperXero89

Purely my opinion of course, but after playing GW2 and enjoying it to a degree, I don't see the game having very much longevity.  Want to find out why?  Click below:

(warning:  pretty long)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfIVT8vO8Ds&list=UUDxQGrgLy5mfqbyqfu5gCMQ&index=0&feature=plcp

i dunno, im 121 hours in and i feel like i havent scratched the game. im nowhere close to endgame, and ive only dabbled in WvW. why do you think the game wont last with free content updates (i.e. live DE team) and xpacs? 

If the WvW issues aren't fixed, this game won't last. It was the one thing I looked forward to the most in the game. The second coming of DAoC etc. I'm not really sure if the design is the issue here or the community, but I'm willing to blame the community. Back when I played DAoC people wanted to be the underdogs, they wanted to challenge themselves and they had fun simply fighting other players. Here it's all about fucking numbers, why the fuck would you attack an undefended keep/tower? Where's the fucking joy in that? I see people like those on Far Shiverpeak talking about how good they are and I hear complaints about queues and other servers night capping and yet the fucking morons decided to pour the entire Swedish community into one fucking server as opposed to spreading out big guilds over maybe 3 servers.

I've come to the realization that 80% of the time with gaming today the devs don't fuck it up, people do. There is no joy in gaming when the only thing people are after is unlocking shit and boasting about who has the biggest numbers. Pathetic.

It really does depend on the player. I can't get into this game. The dynamic events are repetitive to an insane degree. Paradoxically half the time I love them because they help me finish a heart that is especially unappealing. The only story to be had is in your personal quests and the rest is "how do I get to that vista" and "why is there a random plank that I need to drop after I pick it up and realize it does nothing. Does it belong to a heart? No. It appears to just exist."

In the name of all that is good and holy please realize that escort quests are not fun. Making them your back bone of dynamic events makes me sad. If they are not I missed it because they seem to be bread and butter. Did everyone sit down and say "lets do escort quests!, people love those!"?

Originally posted by Akais

Now people are complaining about a game that is F2P with tons of content for both PvE and PVP regarding longevity.

this is true, and i find it ridiculous. GW2 easily has 300 hours of content PLUS the endgame grind, WvW and sPVP. if you burn through 300 hours of PVE content in 10 days, and dont wanna do the pvp / gear grind / crafting, then what the hell do you want? no one is gonna cater to such insane appetites and sense of entitlement. 

Originally posted by Sideras

I've come to the realization that 80% of the time with gaming today the devs don't fuck it up, people do. There is no joy in gaming when the only thing people are after is unlocking shit and boasting about who has the biggest numbers. Pathetic.

im not sure what youre getting at. im on Dragonbrand and we have plenty of small engagements, as well as keep zergs. people will move away from zerging once they realize the rules of WvW, key being supply routes. when people start making cash in game, which they have i guess, we'll be seeing siege equipment everywhere, with higher keep turnover.