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News & Features Discussion  » [Column] General: Taking Down the Giant

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55 posts found

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/29/05
Posts: 23

9/18/12 6:05:36 AM#41
Originally posted by Jackdog
people tend to forget that before the current giant there was that ittle game called EQ1 that WoW beat by taking what was good in it and making it accessable to more people and polishing it up. I have alos seen the irony here of trashing a game like SWOTOR and calling it just anothere WoW clone yet complaining on the GW2 forums about the lack of a trinity, no end game raid gear etc etc..  Seems like you are damned if you do and damned if you don't

That is because some people like the trinity (I personally dont like all classes can do everything gameplay.) and some people don't.  No game will please everyone even WOW (which I am sick of the childish behavior of people afraid to say WOW) pleases everyone.  I like WOW before BC now not a fan of it.  Always prefered EQ to it but I like better graphics in games so I have been on the lookout and have been disappointed since. (with the games not graphics funcom games have some amazing graphics)


Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/27/11
Posts: 308

9/18/12 9:32:22 AM#42
Yet another humble reminder from the game developer that humbly does it "right". T

“We’re in it to win it this time,” said O’Brien. “We were number two to World of Warcraft with Guild Wars, now we want to beat them.

From the humble developer who brought you humble luminaries like: "responsible MMO developers bring free updates." they do it right, everyone else does it wrong or substandard.

O yes, and they're not measuring themselves against wow or tryi g to beat wow at all. That above excerpt is open to a variety of Quabbalistic interpretations!


Joined: 1/31/09
Posts: 3741

9/18/12 9:37:37 AM#43
Originally posted by Reas43

From the humble developer who brought you humble luminaries like: "responsible MMO developers bring free updates." they do it right, everyone else does it wrong or substandard.

Lots of MMO developers bring free updates.  Like Rifts and EVE and... well ,City of Heroes DID, when it existed.

Are you mad that these companies are considered responsible?

Most MMOs do.

It wasn't 'We're responsible like nobody else is', it's 'Just because we're B2P doesn't mean we're not responsible like those other companies'.



Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/14/12
Posts: 34

9/18/12 9:47:44 AM#44

World of Warcraft's biggest fortune ?



when it came out it was kinda good and there were really few mmorpgs around. So ppl got addicted and the WoW Vanilla version was quite fun. People now won't change mmo so easily because they have invested shitloads of time in their chars.

But to be honest, WoW's fortune in nowadays (Cata+) is a world full of dumb kindergarden kids who don't know how to throw their money away (considering sooo many good titles out there)...


Blizzard's biggest fail ?

letting disolve Blizzard North, and after some years teaming up with Activision (greedy & scary ppl).


The consequences ?

Starcraft "copy/paste" 2 + WoW retarded expansions (past Vanilla ofc)


The result ?

Mediocre mmorpg with TOTAL FAIL char-gfx and a good portion of INTENSE dumbass chinese-farming-style gameplay.


The sad story ?

The majority of playerbase is composed of kids, so you can just throw shit at them and they will buy EVERYTHING !!! (in my days kids were never running around with let's say an Iphone or something like that)

That means ---> BIG SELLING NUMBERS DUE TO MAJORITY OF DUMBASSES and for sure not due to quality !

so, the thread should not be "Taking down the Giant"  (WoW is no more a real mmorpg and has almost no real quality content + the pvp is really laughable ) but it should be named : HOW TO TAKE DOWN THIS DUMBASS WORLD of kids.


/my 2 cents, ofc



---> Final result ?  Blizz + Kids  WIN !!! FATALITY !!!  (world of videogames was the opponent...)


Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6496

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

9/18/12 10:12:52 AM#45
Er, need to take down that LK're behind, almost a full expansion.

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.


Novice Member

Joined: 9/12/12
Posts: 9

9/18/12 12:20:13 PM#46
DAoC. The unbeatable. All other MMO's cannot top it. Period. Our only hope is DAoC 2 if you want to pwn noobs. The pvp/rvr market for MMO's is garbage. DAoC 2 is our only hope for a good pvp game.

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/11
Posts: 988

9/18/12 1:28:17 PM#47
Originally posted by Meowhead
Originally posted by Reas43

From the humble developer who brought you humble luminaries like: "responsible MMO developers bring free updates." they do it right, everyone else does it wrong or substandard.

Lots of MMO developers bring free updates.  Like Rifts and EVE and... well ,City of Heroes DID, when it existed.

Are you mad that these companies are considered responsible?

Most MMOs do.

It wasn't 'We're responsible like nobody else is', it's 'Just because we're B2P doesn't mean we're not responsible like those other companies'.


There was definitely a smarmy level of "read between the lines" with that comment he made. Just by making that comment he's implying that giving free content is out of the ordinary, and that by doing this it sets them apart from the other big developers.

So you're right, he doesn't say "nobody else is responsible", but the implication is very much there.

On Topic: I also agree with Pokket, that GW2 makes an effort in getting us away from the copy/paste gameplay from the other themeparks, as does PS2 and Tera, and that in the future perhaps we can get some more variety in MMO type.

But WoW has become more than just the king of the hill, at this point. It has ascended to the level of products like Coca-Cola, Xerox Machines, Jacuzzi Hottubs. It's a household name, and when you say 'WoW' to a person who's never played a game in their life, they know exactly what you're talking about. I expect this game to be a permanent fixture at the top levels of gaming success.


Novice Member

Joined: 3/19/04
Posts: 6382

9/18/12 2:00:09 PM#48
there will always be the quest hub raid end game fans.  A old guildie of mine hates GW2 becasue he says he is confused on what to do next. He prefers the quest hub go here do this this and this then head to that spot over there game. As far as end game raids go I always said that if in real life you live in a broken down shack and clean the toilets at the bus terminal for a living as long as you are willing to put in xxxx hours raiding there will be some schmuck who sees you in the latest raid gear and go "oooohhh look at that person, they are so cool" ~shrug~

I miss DAoC


Novice Member

Joined: 5/20/12
Posts: 112

9/18/12 11:16:54 PM#49
Originally posted by MMOwanderer
Originally posted by tawess
You say wow and normal, non gamer people know it "Oh it's that popular video game".


True, but those same non-gamers also tend to think of the people who play wow as: socially inept, still living with their parents, overweight, or what the Japanese would call Hikkimori and throw in NEET for good measure.

It's  a "giant" "titan" "king" or whatever you want to call for how popular it is. And it did so by complete luck. Blizzard never once expected this to happen. It's like Minecraft or DayZ. The devs never planned for the games to grow like they did. There'll probably never be another giant because it was a fluke. It may happen, but i find it unlikely.

While the level of sucess certainly was unexpected, that wow was a success wasn't. They had a ready made fan base in place before launch. Blizzard had been producing quality games before wow and gamers expected a level of quality from Blizzard with wow, and they delivered.



Novice Member

Joined: 7/15/11
Posts: 167

9/19/12 3:56:34 AM#50

First of all it feels so silly using the word Giant when everybody knows we are talking about WoW. What was the idea?!...


Second... where comes this WoW killing obsession from, and why should it bother us? If WoW is the Giant its because the majority prefers it. Probably it will kill itself one day or the other, but should I be worried about it?...


Novice Member

Joined: 7/15/11
Posts: 167

9/19/12 3:59:17 AM#51
Originally posted by Jackdog
there will always be the quest hub raid end game fans.  A old guildie of mine hates GW2 becasue he says he is confused on what to do next. He prefers the quest hub go here do this this and this then head to that spot over there game. As far as end game raids go I always said that if in real life you live in a broken down shack and clean the toilets at the bus terminal for a living as long as you are willing to put in xxxx hours raiding there will be some schmuck who sees you in the latest raid gear and go "oooohhh look at that person, they are so cool" ~shrug~

 With the hearts and all the marks on the map it is really a very intellectual task to figure where to go next in GW2... LOLOL! Yeah, and the cool gear, that took hours and hours to grind is also a feature that bypasses GW2... Sure.


Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/25/10
Posts: 46

9/19/12 11:22:29 PM#52

There is only one way that I compare new games to WoW. That is all centered around does it look like the new game has a clear view of the customers that they want and how to please them.

WoW is excelent at these things and it made them the giant that they are. I expect new games to demonstrate that they have these features. If they do I will forgive them if they have a lack of things to do, bugs, imbalances in the system and even announced incomplete features.

If they do not demonstrate that they have a target audience and understand it and work to please them, I will abandon the game or never start it. Without this understanding it will be a failure.


Advanced Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 5675

9/20/12 12:57:00 AM#53

This topic is pretty moot. This thread has touched on a number of Games. From Farmville to GW2 and just about all in between. We aren't talking about each game's success, we are talking about choking off the other game from it's base. Unless you want a chart of who has bigger sales. But then GW2 better start ramping up their marketing to catch WoW. Given they sold 2M boxes. They probably have about what 38M-48M more to sell in order to catch up?

To take down the giant. you have to look at the giants customer base. And Take them. Not share them, steal them. So comparing Farmville to WoW is like comparing apples and dinosaurs. What person in their right mind thinks there is a large base of customers who are trying to decide if they're going to buy MoP or play Farmville? where these game's overlap with the player base, there is probably almost no one who won't play WoW.

And it's exactly because of GW2's B2P revenue model that I think GW2 is not going to get anywhere near this momentum either. B2P is an open door. It draws gamers in, but it also allows them the freedom to walk away too. Since they can come and go at will. While GW2 is much more of a direct competitor to WoW, Where these games player base overlaps, there is a much larger chunk who will play both than one or the other. So yeah, GW2 can sell 2M boxes, but of those 2M, how many are buying MoP? That Overlap is not where GW2 should be looking to take down WoW unless they can push WoW's presence out of that overlap area. I don't see that happening to a large degree because it's too easy to play both.

Lastly, no game has ever taken down another game before. Not even WoW. At least not in this context. SWG and TOR are in a different context.

So, in the end........not gonna happen.


Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/15/08
Posts: 3675

9/20/12 10:35:18 AM#54
     The giant will eventually do itself in.......IT has laready lost over 20% of its playerbase the last 2 years and that will coninue as the game gets further from what it used to be by rolling out more ridiculous expansions.

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/20/10
Posts: 1225

9/22/12 4:38:19 AM#55
Originally posted by GrumpyMel2

Hillary, I think you've hit on a meme that alot of us have been suggesting over the past few years.

The most important point is that you actualy don't NEED to beat the Giant at all.

The key to success in any crowded market (gaming or otherwise) is to find a big enough market segment that is currently being underserved and find a way to deliver a product to serve them well with a budget that allows for a decent ROI.  Alot easier said then done, but that's pretty much business 101.

WoW's audience is pretty impressive....but it's really only a fraction of the overall market for online entertainment. There are lots of people NOT playing WoW (or any MMO)....reaching even a small fraction of them would be enough to support a successfull product.

Heck, even a portion of the people playing WoW probably wouldn't mind playing a 2nd game in long as it's sufficiently different from WoW.

I think you have it exactly...the way you suceed is by NOT competeing with WoW.....but by going after customer's it's not satisfying.

Just as the way you succeed as a supermarket is by not trying to go head to head with Walmart on price. That's a really, really tough battle to go into and win. You suceed by offering something they aren't.

Underlined part: that is certainly my case. Playing GW2 and WoW at the same time, and now some TL2 as well. GW2 and WoW are sufficiently different to not feel like I am playing the same thing twice. Both are very fun games.

In today's market, devs should accept that people will probably be playing two or three MMOs. It is not like in EQ's day when there were only a few on the block.

Playing MUDs and MMOs since 1994.

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