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Star Wars: The Old Republic

Star Wars: The Old Republic 

General Discussion  » Do you believe SWTOR is a failure for becoming "F2P"?

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80 posts found

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/12/12
Posts: 272

Why yes, I DO like healing and the Trinity!

9/14/12 5:54:33 PM#21

To me, this particular f2p announcement, like most (but not necessarily all), was indeed a sign of failure.  I think monetizing the subscription revenue stream was EA's goal all along.  They had never mentioned anything about f2p, and there were reports early on about how many subscribers they would need to break even, to make profit, and so on.  The whole time, it was -always- about 'subscribers'.

I didn't consider the free trial to be a bad move at all.  I think -most- games should have a free, limited trial up to level 20 or so.  But going too much past that, especially starting from a full-revenue subscription, is a sign that the company's plans have gone catastrophically wrong.  Now, I haven't played SWTOR so I won't try to guess why or how it 'failed' or argue the merits of that particular word.  I'm only talking about my perception of the announcement.  I think 'Freemium' is, at present, a terrible concept but has room to be made into a good one; a lot lies in the presentation.  I think the 'cash shop only' 'f2p' model is downright broken and will remain so by definition.


Novice Member

Joined: 9/22/11
Posts: 3016

9/14/12 6:23:45 PM#22

Swtor was a failure way before. Singing praises about p2p by EA-BW and then going f2p few months after just PROVES it.


They try to save their investment. It won't help much long-term though.  It will help alot initially by getting alot of players, but Swtor will start hemoraging players fast becaue it is bad game and not build for long-term attraction. Well EA-BW wanted and meaned it to be long-term success, but that does not mean final product is actually made that way.


Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/15/08
Posts: 3718

9/14/12 7:12:55 PM#23
    I never saw the income vs development costs but I'd guess SWTOR either broke even or made a few million.....F2p can now bring in a whole bunch of new players and there will be money to be made there also...Like others have said though, the game needs to be improved to keep any of those players too.

Elite Member

Joined: 2/17/07
Posts: 2290

NGE, LOTRO, STO, KOTOR, Lego Star Wars > NGE 2 (SWTOR). SWG>ALL. Above hopefully subject to change.

9/14/12 8:59:12 PM#24

Games going F2P is not necessarily signs of failure, LOTRO went F2P to move in line with the payment model of DDO, and was getting many annual awards and still is. DCUO went F2P because SOE changed their focus to F2P, and all their games are now going F2P, even their new ones like Planetside 2.

However, SWTOR going F2P is a failure for SWTOR, as the game had 2 million sales and now about 500K subs or less, and that is a loss of over 70% in about 6 months. If the game was a success it would still have at least 1 million subs or even more - people just do not buy MMOs with the intention of quitting within a few months.  It is going F2P because the game needs 500k subs to break even, but that is not happening now. MMOs are games that keep you playing for years. EA also claimed that the game would last ten years. I doubt that will happen now.

If SWTOR had about 500k subs from the start, then it would not be a failure, because it managed to keep people playing.


Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/08/08
Posts: 3069

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over while expecting different results.

9/14/12 9:05:10 PM#25

SWTOR failed right off the bat,  at the 3 month period we all knew with bleeding populations that the game had a massive failure.

Free to play is not failure, it is a symtom of the game failing in the first place.  It is what I term a long shot to keep the game alive.  EA/Bioware looked at other companies that made the cut and are still alive.

The real question is will free to play pull the rabit out of the hat and save SWTOR.


Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/15/07
Posts: 1147

9/14/12 9:22:10 PM#26

This seems like a couple of different things confused together.

1) SWTOR is a "failure" because of the game itself

2) A F2P model is not an indication of failure, but just another business model

3) SWTOR going F2P this early is in indication that because of the "failure", they had to change business models

I played in closed beta, for free, and quit. I like living worlds to play in, and SWTOR was a dead world.


RIP City of Heroes. One of my favorite MMO's.


Novice Member

Joined: 1/04/06
Posts: 182

9/14/12 9:22:18 PM#27

It is a failure. The SWTOR team knew the pros and cons of the FTP model well before their game launched, but decided to go with the subscription model. Subscriptions went down pretty far after the first few months, and the way to mka emore money was to go FTP.

The fact that they had to change their payment model due to plummeting subscription number sounds like a giant fail to me. The entire business premise of SWTOR is to make money, and this game failed to meet their economic expectations to the point they had to completely change their revenue model.

You can like the game, that's fine, but you should still be able to admit that SWTOR failed to meet EA/BW expectations by a large amount to have taken this step so early in the process.


Advanced Member

Joined: 5/04/07
Posts: 2249

9/14/12 9:25:34 PM#28

I don't think SWTOR going F2P makes it a failure.

Personally, I thought SWTOR was already a failure before that.  A failure in what an MMORPG is about.  It seems BioWare didn't get the memo on what the "Massive Multiplayer" means in an MMORPG.  And for me, the space combat is a total joke.

SWTOR would have made a fine single player RPG like KOTOR 1 & 2.  It would have been epic.  But as an MMORPG?  It falls hard in its design as an MMORPG, straight to the bowels of the Sarlaac Pit to suffer for a thousand years.

After all this money, all this time, and utilizing the world recognized "Star Wars" name, you have SWTOR.

"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)


Elite Member

Joined: 2/17/07
Posts: 2290

NGE, LOTRO, STO, KOTOR, Lego Star Wars > NGE 2 (SWTOR). SWG>ALL. Above hopefully subject to change.

9/14/12 9:26:30 PM#29
Originally posted by erictlewis


The real question is will free to play pull the rabit out of the hat and save SWTOR.

If they can keep up with adding content worth buying it may, but if they could not do that while it was P2P, and while they had more staff, I do not see it working in F2P.

I saw  a post somewhere saying BIoware have no intention on adding more story to your characters progression, which I would be interested in. All they seem to be doing is more Flashpoints Operations etc which is what I am not interested in.

If you have to just pay for content already in game then I do not see SWTOR being saved, as people who quit have already done it, and people who have not, did not because it wasn't worth paying for. If there was enough content to last for years people would still be in game doing it, but most were all done with it within 3 months, so in the end P2P could end up being cheaper - $45 could be less than whatever it costs to buy all the content separately in F2P

STO is working well-ish as they are not only still adding content, but also continuing to expand/enhance the game too, which Bioware seems to be reluctant or unable to do with SWTOR.


  User Deleted
9/14/12 9:28:27 PM#30
This is got to be a very stupid question. Be like asking if every F2P game is a failure for becoming F2P I mean if you are going to be fair about. Cant belive people are even conteplating this question.

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/04/07
Posts: 2249

9/14/12 9:35:31 PM#31
Originally posted by Isturi
This is got to be a very stupid question. Be like asking if every F2P game is a failure for becoming F2P I mean if you are going to be fair about. Cant belive people are even conteplating this question.

If an MMORPG's design was based on a F2P model and it follows it, that's one thing.  But it's another if a game struggles so much that it switches from its original business model.

SWTOR's struggles cannot be hidden.  For it to switch from P2P to F2P, that is just another symptom to its myriad of problems.

If it's doing so great, then why are resources being shifted away from SWTOR and the switch to F2P?

"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)


Spotlight Poster

Joined: 11/06/11
Posts: 602

9/14/12 9:45:47 PM#32
Originally posted by OG_Zorvan

The game was already a failure a few months past launch.

The F2P announcement itself was just salt in the wound.

This objectively sums up the scenario succinctly.


"Remember, remember - Kakk says 'December.'"


Elite Member

Joined: 2/17/07
Posts: 2290

NGE, LOTRO, STO, KOTOR, Lego Star Wars > NGE 2 (SWTOR). SWG>ALL. Above hopefully subject to change.

9/14/12 9:50:04 PM#33
Originally posted by Isturi
This is got to be a very stupid question. Be like asking if every F2P game is a failure for becoming F2P I mean if you are going to be fair about. Cant belive people are even conteplating this question.

Not every MMO loses about 70% population in about 6 months, and each case is different, so is a good question.

LOTRO started it all, and seemed to go F2P to match DDOs payment structure, and it received quite a lot of awards, so not a failure

DCUO did not do well, but all SOE games are now F2P, so could be due to failure or that SOE changing completely to F2P. I think it was mainly down to SOE changing to F2P. Vanguard has been dead for years and they never switched it to F2P, so if Smedley did not think F2P was a good idea, DCUO and all SOE games would still be P2P

STO could have gone F2P because Perfect World was taking over, and they are a F2P company too

If SWTOR did not need 500k subs to break even, then it probably will not be going F2P. It probably has more subs atm than Rift, although still declining rapidly, so soon could be less.

EA/Bioware keep looking at other companies all the time, and thinking what they do will work with SWTOR. They wanted subscriptions, and they wanted the WOW success. They not getting that, so then see what then keeps a game alive - F2P, but it is all happening sooner than they think, and I do not see F2P working either

SWTOR is the only MMO blatanty going F2P due it being a failure. 2 mill sales down to about 500k subs or less already speaks volumes


Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/16/07
Posts: 6

9/15/12 12:14:18 AM#34

                             I'm glad in being patient for this very reason! Already going F2P?....That tells me plenty!  The data is stacking that this game..... is a waist of money! Having to wait for more and/or better content, like STO where you play for a week or two and have to wait 3 months for more content, is not worth my time. Its an MMO and if Star Wars geeks are turning away, then i dont need to be in an empty game to see if its right for's AN MMO, there should be lots of people there to make an MMO!

 This game is a failure to me. It's only my opinion, but its my money and time..... I'll wait for something else.  Here is a nice little peice from Forbes Paul Tassi that sums things up for me :


Elite Member

Joined: 4/29/10
Posts: 2951

9/15/12 12:16:48 AM#35
Nah.  They declared F2P after it failed.

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/03/08
Posts: 1321

The more you know, the more you know you don't know.

9/15/12 12:28:59 AM#36

I have yet to see ANY so-called "f2p" model MMOs that I would ever call a "success". F2P is only embraced by those people that really are trying to get something for nothing (freeloaders) or by companies that are willing to mislead people that their game is somehow actually free. That last, it couldn't be truely free or the companies would go out of business. So what they do is put up a slick marketing scheme that "suggests" that the company is giving away their game when in fact they are depending on as many people as possible to spend on inflated items from their game stores. Content suffers in favor of store items. Sub paying players are short changed because they are partially paying for their own content AND the content of freeloaders. The only people that win are the companies pushing that scheme.

Now, I have seen all the statements about how this or that game went f2p and the company said they were making 4 to 7 times more revenue. Really? Maybe. But did those companies post what they were making before and then post those new figures. Who held those statements to some form of credibility? Was it just hype put forward by the companies marketing folks that might have been shading the truth but not exactly true? We don't know because no figures have ever been posted.

Now, after going through the above I will have to go back to the premise of this thread's topic. My answer is going to have to be that SWTOR IS a failure once it changes over to so-called f2p.

Let's party like it is 1863!


Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/30/12
Posts: 291

Long Term MMORPG'er. 1999-2012.

9/15/12 12:34:57 AM#37
Star Wars The Old Republic has been a failure since closed beta. I knew it would fail before release even came out, I openly expressed this many times to the developers on the boards, they didn't listen to people and so the game failed and took its last breath.

Novice Member

Joined: 11/30/11
Posts: 1296

9/15/12 12:38:17 AM#38

The game was disappointing. id likely be playing it right now if they didnt remove what i loved from the beta.


a game going F2P isn't a failure. Lets face it F2P is more common than P2P. i wouldnt be suprised if Bioware intended to start off with a sub. make cost back on the game and then turn F2P after, it makes sense. After you make cost its profit. Wages and Servers can be optimized to push profit. so really now that cost has been made they are being quite successful.

Because i can.
I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
Logic every gamers worst enemy.


Novice Member

Joined: 7/30/12
Posts: 949

9/15/12 2:04:45 AM#39
Saying SWTOR switching to ftp isn't a failure is like saying the Soviet Union transformed into the Russian Federation because communism was working so swell.

Novice Member

Joined: 11/29/11
Posts: 39

9/15/12 3:28:01 AM#40

The game going FTP is very much viewed as a failure in my eyes and many others.

I think the only reason the industry thinks FTP is the future is the abundant of poorly developed games past, present.

In SWG i ran 4 accounts and in EVE I ran 8 active accounts although 2 of them I often payed with ETC's, So paying up to $100 bucks a month is not that big of deal for me, in fact most people I know  would gladly pay $20 to $40 a month for a great immersive game and some of them including me would pay up to $60 without a thought and maybe even more if it was an amazing game.  I think most gamers spend around $20 to $60 bucks a month on new games on steam or whatever anyway, and if we had a game that took care of our wants as a gamer and i was spending all my free time in that game I dont see a problem giving them my monthly gaming budget.

I am not rich or have a bunch of extra cash laying around doing nothing but for the last 20 years or so i prefer playing games as my number one form of entertainment when i have that extra time to waste. I dont think its very much compared to the last time i went to a bar and dropped $120 bucks on dinner and drinks or the $50 i spent at the movies last weekend.



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