Trending Games | World of Warcraft | EVE Online | ArcheAge | Guild Wars 2

  Network:  FPSguru RTSguru
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:2,815,001 Users Online:0
Games:731  Posts:6,213,913
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
A-C
2029 Online 2112: Revolution 2Moons 4Story 8BitMMO 9 Dragons A Mystical Land A Tale in the Desert III A3 ACE Online ARGO Online Aberoth Absolute Force Online Absolute Terror Achaea Adellion Aerrevan Aetolia, the Midnight Age Age of Armor Age of Conan Age of Empires Online Age of Mourning Age of Wulin Age of Wushu Aida Arenas Aika Aion Albion Online Alganon All Points Bulletin (APB) Allods Online Altis Gates Amazing World Anarchy Online Ancients of Fasaria Andromeda 5 Angels Online Anime Trumps Anmynor Anno Online Applo Arcane Hearts Arcane Legends ArchLord ArcheAge Archeblade Archlord X Asda 2 Asda Story Ashen Empires Asheron's Call Asheron's Call 2 Astera Online Astonia III Astro Empires Astro Lords: Oort CLoud Asura Force Atlantica Online Atriarch Aura Kingdom Aurora Blade Auto Assault Avatar Star Battle Dawn Battle Dawn Galaxies Battle for Graxia Battle of 3 Kingdoms Battle of the Immortals Battlecruiser Online Battlestar Galactica Online Battlestar Reloaded Beyond Protocol Black Aftermath Black Desert Black Gold Black Prophecy Black Prophecy Tactics: Nexus Conflict Blacklight Retribution Blade & Soul Blade Hunter Blade Wars Blazing Throne Bless Blitz 1941 Blood and Jade Bloodlines Champions Bounty Bay Online Brain Storm Brawl Busters. Brick-Force Bright Shadow Bullet Run Business Tycoon Online CTRacer Cabal Online Caesary Call of Camelot Call of Gods Call of Thrones Camelot Unchained Canaan Online Cardmon Hero Cartoon Universe CasinoRPG Castle Empire Castlot Celtic Heroes Champions Online Champions of Regnum Chaos Online Chrono Tales Citadel of Sorcery CitiesXL Citizen Zero City of Decay City of Heroes City of Steam City of Transformers City of Villains Civilization Online Clan Lord Clash of Clans Cloud Nine Club Penguin Colony of War Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances Company of Heroes Online Conquer Online Conquer Online 3 Continent of the Ninth (C9) Core Blaze Core Exiles Corum Online Craft of Gods Crimecraft Crimelife 2 Cronous Crota II Crusaders of Solaris Cultures Online Cyber Monster 2 Céiron Wars
D-F
D&D Online DC Universe DK Online DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 DV8: Exile Dalethaan Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Relic: Prelude Dark Solstice Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkest Dungeon Darkfall Darkfall: Unholy Wars Darkwind: War on Wheels Das Tal Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide DayZ Dead Earth Dead Frontier Deco Online Deepworld Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Demons at the Horizon Desert Operations Destiny Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Pals Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Call II Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dragons and Titans Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Rampage Dungeon Runners Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online Dynasty of the Magi EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthrise Eclipse War Ecol Tactics Online Eden Eternal Edge of Space Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elder Scrolls Online Eldevin Elf Online Elite: Dangerous Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire Empire & State Empire Craft Empire Universe 3 EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Blue Moon Online Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Eternal Saga Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverEmber Online EverQuest Next EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Evony Exarch Exorace F.E.A.R. Online Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forge Forsaken World Fortnite Fortuna Forum for Discussion of Everlight Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
G-L
GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones: Seven Kingdoms Gameglobe Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gauntlet Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer Gloria Victis Glory of Gods GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Granado Espada Online Grand Chase Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall H1Z1 Habbo Hotel Hailan Rising HaloSphere2 Haven & Hearth Hawken Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero Online Hero Zero Hero's Journey Hero: 108 Online HeroSmash Heroes & Generals Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Heroes of the Storm Hex Holic Online Hostile Space Hunter Blade Huxley Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Imperator Imperian Inferno Legend Infestation: Survivor Stories Infinite Crisis Infinity Infinity Iris Online Iron Grip: Marauders Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kartuga Kicks Online King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom Under Fire II Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kings and Legends Kings of the Realm KingsRoad Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Age Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Landmark Lands of Hope: Phoenix Edition LastChaos League of Angels League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Edda: Vengeance Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 2 Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Lego Minifigures Online Life is Feudal Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia World
M-Q
MU Online Mabinogi Maestia: Rise of Keledus MagiKnights Magic Barrage Magic World Online Manga Fighter MapleStory Martial Heroes Marvel Heroes Marvel Super Hero Squad Online Marvel: Avengers Alliance MechWarrior Online Megaten Meridian 59 : Evolution Merlin MetalMercs Metaplace Metin 2 MicroVolts Midkemia Online Might & Magic Heroes: Kingdoms MilMo Minecraft Mini Fighter Minions of Mirth Ministry of War Monato Esprit Monkey King Online Monkey Quest Monster & Me Monster Madness Online MonsterMMORPG Moonlight Online: Tales of Eternal Blood Mordavia Mortal Online Mourning My Lands Myst Online: URU Live Myth Angels Online Myth War Myth War 2 Mytheon Mythic Saga Mythos N.E.O Online NIDA Online Nadirim Naviage: The Power of Capital Navy Field Need for Speed World Nemexia Neo's Land NeoSteam Neocron Nether Neverwinter Nexus: The Kingdom Of The Winds NinjaTrick NosTale Novus Aeterno Oberin Odin Quest Odyssey RPG Ogre Island Omerta 3 Online Boxing Manager Onverse Order & Chaos Online Order of Magic Original Blood Origins Return Origins of Malu Orion's Belt Otherland Forums OverSoul Overkings Oz Online Oz World Pandora Saga Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Panzar Parabellum Parallel Kingdom Parfait Station Path of Exile Pathfinder Online Perfect World Perpetuum Online Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantasy Star Universe Phoenix Dynasty Online Phylon Pi Story Picaroon Pirate Galaxy Pirate Storm Pirate101 PirateKing Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Pirates of the Caribbean Online Pixie Hollow Planeshift Planet Arkadia Planet Calypso PlanetSide 2 Planetside Planets³ Playboy Manager Pocket Legends Pockie Ninja Pockie Pirates Pockie Saints PoxNora Prime World Prime: Battle for Dominus Priston Tale Priston Tale II Prius Online Project Blackout Project Powder Project Titan Forums Project Wiki Puzzle Pirates Quickhit Football
R-S
R2 Online RAN Online RF Online ROSE Online Rage of 3 Kingdoms Ragnarok Online Ragnarok Online II RaiderZ Rakion Rappelz RappelzSEA Ravenmarch Realm Fighter Realm of the Mad God Realm of the Titans Realms Online Reclamation Red Stone Red War: Edem's Curse Regnum Online Remnant Knights Renaissance Repulse Requiem: Memento Mori Rift RiotZone Rise Rise of Dragonian Era Rise of Empire Rise of the Tycoon Rising of King Risk Your Life Rivality Rockfree Rohan: Blood Feud Role Play Worlds Roll n Rock Roma Victor Romadoria Rosh Online Roto X Rubies of Eventide Ruin Online Rumble Fighter Runes of Magic Runescape Rust Rusty Hearts Ryzom S4 League SAGA SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online SMITE SUN Sagramore Salem SaySayGirls Scarlet Blade Scions of Fate Seal Online: Evolution Second Life Secret of the Solstice Seed Serenia Fantasy Seven Seas Saga Seven Souls Online Sevencore Shadow of Legend Shadowbane Shadowrun Online Shaiya Shards Online Shattered Galaxy Sho Online Shot Online Shroud of the Avatar SideQuest Siege on Stars Sigonyth: Desert Eternity Silkroad Online Skyblade Skyforge SmashMuck Champions Smoo Online Soldier Front Soul Master Soul Order Online Soul of Guardian Space Heroes Universe Sparta: War of Empires Spellcasters Sphere Spiral Knights Spirit Tales Splash Fighters Squad Wars Star Citizen Star Sonata 2 Star Stable Star Supremacy Star Trek Online Star Trek: Infinite Space Star Wars Galaxies Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures Star Wars: The Old Republic StarQuest Online Stargate Worlds Starlight Story Starpires State of Decay SteelWar Online Stone Age 2 Stormfall: Age of War Storybricks Stronghold Kingdoms Sudden Attack Supremacy 1914 Supreme Destiny Sword Girls Sword of Destiny: Rise of Aions SwordX Swords of Heavens Swordsman
T-Z
TERA TS Online Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Tales of Solaris Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris TerraWorld Online Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Aurora World The Black Watchmen The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Crew The Division The Hammers End The Legend of Ares The Lost Titans The Matrix Online The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems The West Theralon There Therian Saga Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Tiger Knight Titan Siege Titans of Time Toontown Online Top Speed Topia Online Torchlight Total Domination Transformers Universe Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Trove Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War Tynon U.B. Funkeys UFO Online URDEAD Online Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Naruto Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Utopia Valkyrie Sky Vampire Lord Online Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos VoidExpanse Voyage Century Online W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WAR2 Glory WYD Global Wakfu War Thunder War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Mercenaries War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Wargame1942 Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warkeepers Warrior Epic Wartune WebLords Wild West Online WildStar Wind of Luck WindSlayer 2 Wings of Destiny Wish Wizard101 Wizardry Online Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Speed World of Tanks World of Tanks Generals World of Warcraft World of Warplanes World of Warships World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xenocell Xiah Xsyon Xulu YS Online Yitien ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online Zombies Ate My Pizza eRepublik

MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » Dungeons - The Lack of the Trinity

7 Pages « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 » Search
132 posts found
  SteeJanz

Novice Member

Joined: 8/22/11
Posts: 346

9/14/12 11:36:31 AM#81
Originally posted by voxnor
Originally posted by SteeJanz
Originally posted by voxnor
Originally posted by SteeJanz

 

 

I can understand your recomendations - and were I not me, I would think it was sound advice. But as someone with 10 years in MMO's, most of them in moderate to hardcore PVE environments, I feel I have earned the ability to safely judge something quite quickly.

 

For example, on the nightmare spawning boss (#2 in story mode), I completely understood his tactics. I know all of my skills, and selected some great AoE kiting tools for utility. And all of that, played near flawlessly, still got me killed, still had me running in circles, and still was a zerg-fest.

First off, if burning down a boss is a zergfest, then every dungeon is a zergfest.  Having a tank keep it under control so the deeps can zerg it does not make it less different.  Becuase you aren't standing still doesn't mean moving makes it a zerg.  The word zerg is being used to loosely.  A Zerg is having numbers over the foe, just because there is five of you and one boss does not mean that you zerged him, especially if your the one constantly running from a way point. 

We'll have to disagree here - I would call running back and forth between a waypoint rez a type of zerging.

I get what you are saying, but the fact that you are running back alot, helps support the idea that your group is doing it wrong.  I just ran TA last night and ran back 4 times, 2 of them were my fault because I failed to avoid what I knew I should have avoided and 2 were groups fault because we wiped since a few didnt know the dungeon.  It happens in every game.   BTW, Some fights don't allow for you to run back without it resetting.

#2.  You are not owed anything because of your gaming experience.  Not trying to be mean but, your basically saying the dungeon should work like you are used to them working.  As I said before , most of the stuff is the same like don't stand in stuff but just because you have to move and sometimes move alot does not mean it is a zerg or that the dungeon is bad.  It is part of the mechanics.

I don't care if its 110% different then all other MMO's, you can't discount my gaming experience. Having a vast experience in MMO's does make it easier for someone, myself included, to assess a feature or area of a game faster than someone with very little experience, regardless of whether or not the MMO being evaluated brings new things to the table.

I may have touched a nerve here.  It wasn't my intention, but the fact that you got through the dungeon may be proof enough that your experience was why.   I was just pointing out that your experience shouldn't be the the gauge on whether you complete a dungeon or not.

You have described the professions that came with you but you have not provided info on how those players were spec'ed.  If all of you are spec'ed as Power and Crit with no support  then your saying that the dungeon should function like the trinity without having to spec like a trinity.  Your logic doesn't work.  5 DPS players can not run a level appropriate dungeon in WOW.  So why would expect to be able to do it in GW2.    And I am not talking about weapons here.  Just because you switch to a weapon that has a heal does not make it that great.  You need the +healing stats to make them more affective.  All the power and crit gear equiped doesn't make the skill as useful.   In WOW, your healer you bring to the dungeon, can't run it in Deeps gear and your tanks can't tank in healer gear.

For one, I am running an extremely support heavy build. Two, how would you like me to see what those other players are running? There is no armory, there is no inspect.

I wish we could view other peoples gear, maybe that will come later like i believe it did in WOW.   But would your run a dungeon in WOW if the tank was in healer gear.  You wouldn't.  Why are you expecting to be able to accomplish it in GW2.  Your saying that GW2 dungeons are worse because of the lack of the trinity but your your expecting to complete them without having to follow rules that you had to follow with the holy trinity.  Again, all elements of the trinity are still required, just not the hard-set roles of the holy trinity.

  It may be harder to figure your group make up right now but you should still expect the group to be group friendly.  The point I was trying to make is that your spec matters, and by the sounds of it, at least 4 of your group was glass cannons or none of you knew the mechanics of the fights and what to watch out for.  In either case, fault for failure or a bad experience still falls on the players.  I will reiterate, is fair to jump to the forums after one run.  There are no guides created yet for people to follow, so that they know every fight before hand.  You can wait for that day to come or you can try and figure them out yourself but the cost will be more death and rezzing.  If anything it should help people be thankful for all the time people put into making those guides.   

I do under stand were you are coming from, I was pissed after completeing my first Explorable AC run (two failures before that.)  I spent more time running from a waypoint than anything else.  And I complained that it wasn't fun and was thinking they need to change it.  But after thinking about it I realized we just kept throwing ourselves at the dungeons, no coordination, no one was specced for support, and we tried to just burn everything down.   The Holy Trinity forces you to have at least one strategy for every fight.  The tank will manage boss, the dps will burn the boss down and the healer will heal.   The GW2 way doesn't force it, and its up to each player to bring things that provide for group dynamics that will make the run a much better experience.   GW2 removes the hard set roles of the trinity, however you steal need heals, dps and tanks(people that can control the boss) to survive the encounter.   I now spec as a support and I am enjoying the dungeons quite abit more. 

You complain about story mode being too hard yet you just made it through the dungeon without properly spec'ing for the dungeon.  I think thats how it should be.    Could you do that in a WOW dungeon.

You *asssume* I did not do it properly. But you don't even know what spec I am running, and by your own admition you have no idea what spec the other professions were running..... How are you then able to assess that we did it correctly or not? For the record, I am in a support and control heavy build, with appropriate gear to compliment that.

 Yes, I assumed by your description that a group that spent most of thier time running back from way points in a dungeon that I have done twice and had much better success, was doing it wrong.  Just like a group in a game with the hard set roles can wipe over and over again in a fight, because they are doing it wrong.  Your acting as if the dungeon mechanics are die alot and just run back.  Just because it is possible to do does not mean you have to run the dungeon that way.  I recognize that the difference between my group and your group was my group had experience with the dungeon, knew each others spec's  and what we were specced like as a whole.  Yes it will be harder with a pug.  Welcome to a new game. 

And just to make one thing clear,  just because everyone can rez, it doesn't mean that rezzing is effective in a dungeon.  It is fare better to help a downed player back up before they are defeated, then to try and rez a defeated player.  Don't wait for them to get defeated, get to them and get them up.  It's the most common misconception in the dungeon.  The only time you don't is if you have the aggro of the boss or the fight doesn't allow it.  Most do, the spider boss (3rd in TA) doesn't because you have to be moving the whole fight.   But I slot a utility skill that helps the group.  Elixir R helps reive downed players faster, it gives them a 20% boost in reviving for 6 secounds.   Which is another good point you can switch skills out before the fight to slot the best ones for the fight.  Don't forget to do that as well.

I actually have a trait already that makes me and the target I rez faster upon rezing. Any chance I get, I combat res someone who is in the downed state. Last time I checked, pressing F isn't strategy.

This was more a response to other poster about rezzing.  Bring the tools at your disposal that work best for each fight and don't forget that you can actually change any time out of combat.

Response inline.

 

 

 

  SteeJanz

Novice Member

Joined: 8/22/11
Posts: 346

9/14/12 11:39:42 AM#82
Originally posted by voxnor
Originally posted by Purutzil

GW2 Trinity:

Damage - Crowd Control - Support

 

Having those will make dungeons much easier... though expect to still die. A lot of the difficulty isn't skill based so much as 'I hope that things CCed or you are screwed' type deals you can't really avoid. Where skill was counted for such as AoEs and the likes, I can go through with flying colors, other times (particularly trash) your just going to die, die, and die. No chance to avoid, no chance for skill to even come into play, its just a matter of you and if a mob decided to focus you and how many times you can get lucky dodging before you are out of dodges and its going to eat you alive.

 

Agreed, and I take issue with this. I want to learn a dungeon, and be able to repeat successful results. Not "know that I am going to die sometimes".

I agree with you.  YOu should not be expecting death as a mechanic in a dungeon.  And with my experience in them so far.  Yes it happens, especially if you don't know the fights.  But it is possible to not die.  However, I think it will take some time to gain experience before if will be possible to do it without dying.  

  voxnor

Novice Member

Joined: 8/20/12
Posts: 121

 
OP  9/14/12 1:00:26 PM#83
Originally posted by SteeJanz
Originally posted by voxnor
Originally posted by Purutzil

GW2 Trinity:

Damage - Crowd Control - Support

 

Having those will make dungeons much easier... though expect to still die. A lot of the difficulty isn't skill based so much as 'I hope that things CCed or you are screwed' type deals you can't really avoid. Where skill was counted for such as AoEs and the likes, I can go through with flying colors, other times (particularly trash) your just going to die, die, and die. No chance to avoid, no chance for skill to even come into play, its just a matter of you and if a mob decided to focus you and how many times you can get lucky dodging before you are out of dodges and its going to eat you alive.

 

Agreed, and I take issue with this. I want to learn a dungeon, and be able to repeat successful results. Not "know that I am going to die sometimes".

I agree with you.  YOu should not be expecting death as a mechanic in a dungeon.  And with my experience in them so far.  Yes it happens, especially if you don't know the fights.  But it is possible to not die.  However, I think it will take some time to gain experience before if will be possible to do it without dying.  

 

I am curius Janz, in a completely non rude way, what profession are you playing? I am wondering if I need to do more sampling, or there are some balance issues or something?

 

I am asking from the standpoint that my experience was as a ranger, traited heavily into survivability and support.

"Judge a man by his questions rather than by his answers.” - Voltaire

  SteeJanz

Novice Member

Joined: 8/22/11
Posts: 346

9/14/12 1:39:15 PM#84
Originally posted by voxnor
Originally posted by SteeJanz
Originally posted by voxnor
Originally posted by Purutzil

GW2 Trinity:

Damage - Crowd Control - Support

 

Having those will make dungeons much easier... though expect to still die. A lot of the difficulty isn't skill based so much as 'I hope that things CCed or you are screwed' type deals you can't really avoid. Where skill was counted for such as AoEs and the likes, I can go through with flying colors, other times (particularly trash) your just going to die, die, and die. No chance to avoid, no chance for skill to even come into play, its just a matter of you and if a mob decided to focus you and how many times you can get lucky dodging before you are out of dodges and its going to eat you alive.

 

Agreed, and I take issue with this. I want to learn a dungeon, and be able to repeat successful results. Not "know that I am going to die sometimes".

I agree with you.  YOu should not be expecting death as a mechanic in a dungeon.  And with my experience in them so far.  Yes it happens, especially if you don't know the fights.  But it is possible to not die.  However, I think it will take some time to gain experience before if will be possible to do it without dying.  

 

I am curius Janz, in a completely non rude way, what profession are you playing? I am wondering if I need to do more sampling, or there are some balance issues or something?

 

I am asking from the standpoint that my experience was as a ranger, traited heavily into survivability and support.

Ok this will probably be overkill and not what you where asking for but her it goes.  :)

Engineer.  You may already know this but, there is more than just traiting.  Traiting is limited until you get 80 anyway.  Equipment stats are important, runes and jewels are important,  the skills you use matter. 

For example, (I am also level 80 so I have all traits available to me)

I have 30 points in Alchemy for a couple of reasons. 

  1. To get the 30% increase in boon duration.  Boons are mega important in dungeon runs.  The suppliment the group buffs that help not only my survivability but the groups.  They can get people through the cool down of their heal skill.  They will never fully heal them, that is thier responsibility in the fight.  It will just help them.
  2. To increase damage from the elixir gun.
  3. To get the automated response which stops all condition damage on myself when i reach 25%.  Alot of damage from boss's come in the form of conditions, so at 25 % my dodging and kiting are more effective because I just need to avoid direct damage.  This one is for myself.
  4. Bonus + 300 to vitality, Drink Elixir B at 75% health (gain 4 boons), 3% chance to convert incoming conditions to boons, 1% extra damage for each boon up.  Swap majors for fight specific fights, reduce cool down time of elixirs, or more damage, etc.
To go along with that I pump Inventions to 30.
  1. I like to run a bomb build when dealing mulitple adds, deals condition effects..  Pushing to 30 gets me a trait Bomb explosions heal allies including myself.
  2. Can swap major traits for different utilities, take less damage to me, reduce damage to turrets, etc.
I put remaining ten in Explosives and trait larger radius for bombs or or extra damage depending on fight. 
I use grenades for range explosions and bombs for up close because each of them apply conditions, blindness, confusion.  Things like that.  Depends on what we are fighting.
 
On boss fights I use the Elixir gun because it applies Bleeds and weakness (applying weakness rocks, cause 50% of attacks to be glancing), vulnerability (more damage boss takes which increases with stacks), posion.  At the same time, it remove condtions from Allies, applies swiftness, and healing spot i (ground target so if you want the heal, you got stay in it).
 
Then I stat gear for heals, at least some of it.  I try to combine my gear, my traits, and my skills to provide the group with support. 
 
If you have two players focusing on providing support, you see a nice difference in improving the quality of the run.  What's nice about my current setup, is that most of my support comes with attacking the boss.  I only have to pay attention to a few utility skills and and # 5 Elixir skill to aim for allies.
 
I would have to know what your traiting to see if how supportive it is and what makes it good survivability.
  adam_nox

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/31/06
Posts: 2059

9/14/12 2:38:11 PM#85

sounds like they overtuned dungeons in a game where you get very little reward anyhow.

 

why not just make it fun and not worry about the difficulty, especially in story mode.

 

 

  User Deleted
9/14/12 2:47:37 PM#86

well let me start with your last question. Story mode quests need adjustments still, there are glitches that won't let people join in groups and glitches that make the mobs too powerful for a single player in these stories so yeah they are still working on that, but a visit to fb or twitter or even to the posts about their notes in this forum would tell anyone that.

 

Secondly, if you don't like dying in dungeons then put on all toughness/vitality gear. Really, it's worked for me. I usually tho go in there with all precision/condition damage gear on or if we need a little help i put on Healing gear on and throw on my goggles supply crate and chemical gun :) if i can survive in healing gear running up to the boss and leaping back with the acid attack then you can. seriously just gotta think about your strategy. 

SMH this is what gets me about some of these posts sometimes, if people thought about what they were doing they'd have a slightly easier time. I'm not saying the challenge would be gone but it certainly wouldn't be death after death etc.

Oh and i've noticed that mobs do initially focus on the people who do crit/burst damage. It might not be a bad thing to step back and condition the boss down. That's what happens in WoW anyways, has for years where do you think the DPS meters came from, burst damage doesn't work well on bosses because of their aggro table in WoW why would it work in games without an aggro table where crits cause some sudden focus of the boss on your character temporarily? (enough to kill most) And before someone comes in here and claims i said GW2 has aggro, let me explain, aggro is sustainable focus from any mob it is not, i repeat not, a mob taking notice of you for two seconds just to refocus on someone else.

  Doomedfox

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/01/10
Posts: 696

9/14/12 3:00:33 PM#87

I am only lvl 24 so i dont have any dungeon expierience yet (am trying to lvl faster but get bored too fast) but i wonder if you really need a groupo for them?

In the Trinity system its clear why you need a group but in GW2 system it seems that i could just do all dungeons solo it would just take me 5 times as long.

If all classes are the same than why do i need to group up?

How did Anet avoid this problem? 

  wildtalent

Novice Member

Joined: 4/04/07
Posts: 381

9/14/12 3:05:27 PM#88
Originally posted by voxnor

Just got done with my first experience in a dungeon - Twilight Arbor Story Mode on my 58 Ranger (down-scaled to 50, of course).

Group looked like this:

54 Necro

54 Warrior

58 Ranger (me)

55 Theif

80 Warrior

 

Now, I will elaborate below, but if I were to blurt out my feelings immediatly it would be "sadly dissapointed and not impressed".

 

Now for the elaboration: I have thus far been a huge fan of GW2 ( a peak at my posting history will show you as much ). And, I had high hopes for the lack of the Trinity. And yet, I can't shake this nasty feeling after my first dungeon. I found that the encounters were either point and click - or a ressurection fest.

 

What I mean by this, is that I think it was and will be very difficult for group strategy to be employed with the lack of the trinity. The second boss, for example, summons a massive amount of spider adds. Our method for handling this was running in circles, shooting the boss, dodging when not out of endurance. This caused frequent deaths - but due to the adds ressurection is not an option - so we would just run back from the spawn point and re-enter the fight in progress. This was not fun.

 

The third boss, however, while gimicky (kitty kat) was tank n' spank, without the tank! (All spank, baby)

 

The point to all this is the following:

 

  1. How can / will ANet make complex, engaging encounters without the trinity?
  2. Will they ever be able to shift the emphasis to good group play and away from good individual play without the trinity?
  3. Why am I dying in story mode? I'd like to go into story mode for the, you know, story.
 
 

In my opinion what this will eventually lead to (at least I hope) will be conversations about strategy going into a dungeon instead of every dungeon being a zerg fest tank and spank situation.  You will need to find out everyone's build and coordinate a plan of attack to be successful.  

  goozmania

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/18/07
Posts: 118

9/14/12 3:10:22 PM#89
Originally posted by Doomedfox

I am only lvl 24 so i dont have any dungeon expierience yet (am trying to lvl faster but get bored too fast) but i wonder if you really need a groupo for them?

In the Trinity system its clear why you need a group but in GW2 system it seems that i could just do all dungeons solo it would just take me 5 times as long.

If all classes are the same than why do i need to group up?

How did Anet avoid this problem? 

 

You would just die instantly, and the mobs would reset. The way they avoided this is simply making the mobs a shitload more powerful than the players. You need multiple players to keep the fight going while the dead ones run back.

 

I really find this mentality hilarious... It's great because there are no roles! You just have to make a plan and figure out everyone's roles before you start!

So rather than simply knowing what we're getting when you invite Class_X, like in most other games, you now have to conduct interviews. What build are you? What abilities do you use? What 2 weapons do you have equipped? And then proceed to spend a half hour coordinating combos the group will be using... Man, this is fun strategy!

 

Wasn't the whole point of removing the trinity (which didn't end up being the case at all) to make finding groups quicker and easier? The more I read these off-the-wall defenses of the gameplay, the more I realize how bad the grouping situation really is.

  GoldenArrow

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/09/08
Posts: 1077

9/14/12 3:12:29 PM#90

There's no trinity because guardian fills two roles.

Tanking and healing while doing zero damage.

  SteeJanz

Novice Member

Joined: 8/22/11
Posts: 346

9/14/12 3:21:29 PM#91
Originally posted by Doomedfox

I am only lvl 24 so i dont have any dungeon expierience yet (am trying to lvl faster but get bored too fast) but i wonder if you really need a groupo for them?

In the Trinity system its clear why you need a group but in GW2 system it seems that i could just do all dungeons solo it would just take me 5 times as long.

If all classes are the same than why do i need to group up?

How did Anet avoid this problem? 

First off, why the heck are you playing a game that bores you.  As a matter of fact why are you playing a genre that bores you because questing and leveling are pretty much a standard throughout the genre.

Anyway, the trinity was never removed, the hard-set roles of the holy trinity were removed.  You may be able to heal yourself but if you are not specced for it and/or traited for it then it will not be as effective. 

Let me ask you a question, do you where dps gear while healing in a Holy Trinity based game?  Do you tank in healing gear?  Why does everyone expect to conquer a dungeon by not follow the rules of the mechanics when they follow the holy trinity based games.

And to answer your question, you would be in the dungeon 5 times longer and still not make it past the first group of adds.  

  SteeJanz

Novice Member

Joined: 8/22/11
Posts: 346

9/14/12 3:41:24 PM#92
Originally posted by GoldenArrow

There's no trinity because guardian fills two roles.

Tanking and healing while doing zero damage.

This post is just an example of how to state two idiotic thoughts in the same sentence.  Bravo.

Please enlighten us with more of your useless information. 

You forgot to add IMO, so that I can ridiculed by forums hero's who are looking for the opportunity to defend everyone's right to post their precious opinions.   It gives them the opportunity to point out the obvious horrid GW2 community and to anoint me as the blind fanboy willing to support ArenaNet no matter what.  That pretty much sums up how it will go from here.  :)

 

 

  Doomedfox

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/01/10
Posts: 696

9/14/12 3:54:45 PM#93
Originally posted by SteeJanz
Originally posted by Doomedfox

I am only lvl 24 so i dont have any dungeon expierience yet (am trying to lvl faster but get bored too fast) but i wonder if you really need a groupo for them?

In the Trinity system its clear why you need a group but in GW2 system it seems that i could just do all dungeons solo it would just take me 5 times as long.

If all classes are the same than why do i need to group up?

How did Anet avoid this problem? 

First off, why the heck are you playing a game that bores you.  As a matter of fact why are you playing a genre that bores you because questing and leveling are pretty much a standard throughout the genre.

Anyway, the trinity was never removed, the hard-set roles of the holy trinity were removed.  You may be able to heal yourself but if you are not specced for it and/or traited for it then it will not be as effective. 

Let me ask you a question, do you where dps gear while healing in a Holy Trinity based game?  Do you tank in healing gear?  Why does everyone expect to conquer a dungeon by not follow the rules of the mechanics when they follow the holy trinity based games.

And to answer your question, you would be in the dungeon 5 times longer and still not make it past the first group of adds.  

Yeah not sure where i stated that MMOs do bore me i am sure i stated GW2 does not MMOs and i keep playing GW2 cause i hope its get better i have not given up on it yet maybe it will become decent in later lvls and if not i at least tried it and can state my opinion based on my expierience.(Cant judge what i didt try)

I do not understand you gear point i have to admit tho.

In a trinity game i am a tank with tank gear i can tank thats what defines my roll in GW2 no amount of gear will make me a tank or a full fletched healer so why would you try to make a comperision here?

Why would i not make it past the first group of adds?? That was what i wanted to know.

I guess i would not be able to do it since there are too many mobs?So Anet made it a pt content by just adding lots of mobs who would swarm you if you are alone?

So in the end personal skill still does not matter one bit?

  Mimzel

Novice Member

Joined: 7/08/07
Posts: 372

9/14/12 4:03:07 PM#94

Whats really the difference between GW2 and any other classic trinity mmorpg? Just remove the healer and the tank from the trinity game, and you pretty much get gw2.

Its not a secret that you can get pretty far without a healer and a tank in other games as well - just burn things down quick enough. I know its not exactly like this in gw2, but its close enough to compare.

You have no idea how many times I miss my healer when playing dungeons in gw2. Everywhere else (hearts etc) is fine without it. My feeling is that ridding the game of the trinity is going too far. They should get rid of the tank, and keep healers and dps. All they need to do is buff the healing capabilities of certain classes (like elementalist and engineer).

  SteeJanz

Novice Member

Joined: 8/22/11
Posts: 346

9/14/12 4:12:39 PM#95
Originally posted by Doomedfox
Originally posted by SteeJanz
Originally posted by Doomedfox

I am only lvl 24 so i dont have any dungeon expierience yet (am trying to lvl faster but get bored too fast) but i wonder if you really need a groupo for them?

In the Trinity system its clear why you need a group but in GW2 system it seems that i could just do all dungeons solo it would just take me 5 times as long.

If all classes are the same than why do i need to group up?

How did Anet avoid this problem? 

First off, why the heck are you playing a game that bores you.  As a matter of fact why are you playing a genre that bores you because questing and leveling are pretty much a standard throughout the genre.

Anyway, the trinity was never removed, the hard-set roles of the holy trinity were removed.  You may be able to heal yourself but if you are not specced for it and/or traited for it then it will not be as effective. 

Let me ask you a question, do you where dps gear while healing in a Holy Trinity based game?  Do you tank in healing gear?  Why does everyone expect to conquer a dungeon by not follow the rules of the mechanics when they follow the holy trinity based games.

And to answer your question, you would be in the dungeon 5 times longer and still not make it past the first group of adds.  

Yeah not sure where i stated that MMOs do bore me i am sure i stated GW2 does not MMOs and i keep playing GW2 cause i hope its get better i have not given up on it yet maybe it will become decent in later lvls and if not i at least tried it and can state my opinion based on my expierience.(Cant judge what i didt try)

I do not understand you gear point i have to admit tho.

In a trinity game i am a tank with tank gear i can tank thats what defines my roll in GW2 no amount of gear will make me a tank or a full fletched healer so why would you try to make a comperision here?

Why would i not make it past the first group of adds?? That was what i wanted to know.

I guess i would not be able to do it since there are too many mobs?So Anet made it a pt content by just adding lots of mobs who would swarm you if you are alone?

So in the end personal skill still does not matter one bit?

The gear point is to reference that you follow rules that Holy Trinity based dungeons have and then expect not to follow any rules in GW2 that lacks the Hard-set roles of the trinity but not the trinity itself.  For example, how you are spec'ed matters.  5 glass cannons will have problems in Dungeons were 5 properly spec'ed support/damage/control, players will not.

You don't take 5 DPS players into a dungeon in WOW.  When the heck did anyone say that you could just walk through a dungeon, dungeons have always be described as some of the most challanging content. 

You can solo a Holy trintiy based Dungeon either.  So why would you expect it in GW2.   Dungeons are designed for group play, in more than just GW2.  Your individual skill doesnt have matter, the collective skill of they entire party does. 

 

  SteeJanz

Novice Member

Joined: 8/22/11
Posts: 346

9/14/12 4:20:47 PM#96
Originally posted by Mimzel

Whats really the difference between GW2 and any other classic trinity mmorpg? Just remove the healer and the tank from the trinity game, and you pretty much get gw2.

Its not a secret that you can get pretty far without a healer and a tank in other games as well - just burn things down quick enough. I know its not exactly like this in gw2, but its close enough to compare.

You have no idea how many times I miss my healer when playing dungeons in gw2. Everywhere else (hearts etc) is fine without it. My feeling is that ridding the game of the trinity is going too far. They should get rid of the tank, and keep healers and dps. All they need to do is buff the healing capabilities of certain classes (like elementalist and engineer).

You can spec for support now, the difference is everyone  needs to be thinking that way.  Everyone must think what can i do to help the group.  What skills, how should I trait, what gear stats should I be increasing to help the group.  Everyone is capable of providing Boons (Heals, condition removals, etc) but don't spec to maximize them. 

Before everyone asks to change it, you should try to actually understanding how it currently works first.  I get where people are coming from because it sucks dying a lot but it doesnt have to be that way.  Look at your stats, you can change them to improve healing, you can trait to increase boon duration, that doesnt just increase boon duration on yo but the boons you apply.

The healers are already there, whe just arent used to using them this way.  When your see the big circle on the floor that isnt read and little plus signs are floating up, thats a heal.  Having condition removals are super important because a ton of damage comes from you bleeding and buring all the item.  It is easier to avoid direct damage, it is alot hard to avoid the damage ticking away on you that ignores armor.

  Doomedfox

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/01/10
Posts: 696

9/14/12 4:36:29 PM#97
Originally posted by SteeJanz
Originally posted by Doomedfox
Originally posted by SteeJanz
Originally posted by Doomedfox

I am only lvl 24 so i dont have any dungeon expierience yet (am trying to lvl faster but get bored too fast) but i wonder if you really need a groupo for them?

In the Trinity system its clear why you need a group but in GW2 system it seems that i could just do all dungeons solo it would just take me 5 times as long.

If all classes are the same than why do i need to group up?

How did Anet avoid this problem? 

First off, why the heck are you playing a game that bores you.  As a matter of fact why are you playing a genre that bores you because questing and leveling are pretty much a standard throughout the genre.

Anyway, the trinity was never removed, the hard-set roles of the holy trinity were removed.  You may be able to heal yourself but if you are not specced for it and/or traited for it then it will not be as effective. 

Let me ask you a question, do you where dps gear while healing in a Holy Trinity based game?  Do you tank in healing gear?  Why does everyone expect to conquer a dungeon by not follow the rules of the mechanics when they follow the holy trinity based games.

And to answer your question, you would be in the dungeon 5 times longer and still not make it past the first group of adds.  

Yeah not sure where i stated that MMOs do bore me i am sure i stated GW2 does not MMOs and i keep playing GW2 cause i hope its get better i have not given up on it yet maybe it will become decent in later lvls and if not i at least tried it and can state my opinion based on my expierience.(Cant judge what i didt try)

I do not understand you gear point i have to admit tho.

In a trinity game i am a tank with tank gear i can tank thats what defines my roll in GW2 no amount of gear will make me a tank or a full fletched healer so why would you try to make a comperision here?

Why would i not make it past the first group of adds?? That was what i wanted to know.

I guess i would not be able to do it since there are too many mobs?So Anet made it a pt content by just adding lots of mobs who would swarm you if you are alone?

So in the end personal skill still does not matter one bit?

The gear point is to reference that you follow rules that Holy Trinity based dungeons have and then expect not to follow any rules in GW2 that lacks the Hard-set roles of the trinity but not the trinity itself.  For example, how you are spec'ed matters.  5 glass cannons will have problems in Dungeons were 5 properly spec'ed support/damage/control, players will not.

You don't take 5 DPS players into a dungeon in WOW.  When the heck did anyone say that you could just walk through a dungeon, dungeons have always be described as some of the most challanging content. 

You can solo a Holy trintiy based Dungeon either.  So why would you expect it in GW2.   Dungeons are designed for group play, in more than just GW2.  Your individual skill doesnt have matter, the collective skill of they entire party does. 

 

I thought it would be obvious why i asked how they managed to make ythe dungeons not solo friendly a trinity system is based on the classes you need a tank and a healer or else you can not win but GW2 is different and its fanbase was always fast to declare that without the trinity its so much easier to form groups since you do not need specific classes.

Yet here you are telling me that all that was a lie and that you still need specific classes/specs.

You still did not really tell me why i can not do it solo the point that the fights will be decided by playerskills was made countless times so if i have content that does not need a tank or a healer how did Anet prevent it to be done solo?

Do they just throw multiple mobs into your face or is there an actuall system a deeper playstile a well a real reason to pt besiedes the amount of trash mobs?

By now its obvious to me that you can not answer that question and thats ok.

I was told lvl 30 is the first dungeon so i will be able to see it for myself in a week or 2.

I still thank you for your effort even tho it didnt really have anything to do with my question.

  Wolvards

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/27/12
Posts: 674

9/14/12 4:44:06 PM#98

One way to deal with large amounts of adds in a short way is class combo's. Try using a gaurdian as you "puller".

Literally, GS #5 will literaly pull the mobs to him, have him drop a #2 retaliation then drop the AoE ban hammers for maximum combo effect. He doesn't have to stay there, but just get all the mobs there, so pull, drop #2, and dodge out while AoE's are going off.

That takes strategy. 

There's tons of different strategies that can be used, but i'm betting level 60 pugs won't be able to do level 50 explore mode dungeons. Maybe level 80's cuase of traits, but even then, explore mode tates skill. Combo's is also by far the best way to drop targets. Blast finishers normally are the way to go too, sure whirl looks cool, but i'm kind of /eh. Although for the gaurdian's GS #3/5, if you drop a fire combo on them before, it makes nice dps. 

Combo combo combo, that's where the trinity is now. 

The "Youtube Pro": Someone who watches video's on said subject, and obviously has a full understanding of what is being said about such subject.

  Master10K

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/18/10
Posts: 3086

9/14/12 5:09:07 PM#99
Originally posted by Doomedfox
*snip*

I thought it would be obvious why i asked how they managed to make ythe dungeons not solo friendly a trinity system is based on the classes you need a tank and a healer or else you can not win but GW2 is different and its fanbase was always fast to declare that without the trinity its so much easier to form groups since you do not need specific classes.

Yet here you are telling me that all that was a lie and that you still need specific classes/specs.

You still did not really tell me why i can not do it solo the point that the fights will be decided by playerskills was made countless times so if i have content that does not need a tank or a healer how did Anet prevent it to be done solo?

Do they just throw multiple mobs into your face or is there an actuall system a deeper playstile a well a real reason to pt besiedes the amount of trash mobs?

By now its obvious to me that you can not answer that question and thats ok.

I was told lvl 30 is the first dungeon so i will be able to see it for myself in a week or 2.

I still thank you for your effort even tho it didnt really have anything to do with my question.

*sigh* Does this really need explaining or are you seriously incapable of understanding what GROUP CONTENT is? You ever try to solo a [Group Event] before in this game, even one you've supposedly out-levelled. Well here's a spoiler for you in case you haven't tried them, in you whole 20 something levels of experience with this game... it usually results in being face planted and left with a repair bill. The same is for the dungeons, no matter how you try to spin this whole holy trinity thing; whereby you seem to believe how, without the holy trinity, content designed for a group, can be done without a group.

 

Also in a Holy Trinity game, you require roles to be filled in a group. In GW2 you require competent players with competent builds to fill up slots in a group. So people who build pure damage, with their only form of survivability being their self-heal, will die the moment something even looks at them funny. Because in GW2, building pure damage with no surviability, is not a competent build and yet many people make the mistake of assuming that mobs won't target them, if someone beefy is smacking it in the face. The ideal group will have a bit of everything spread amongst the group and the game really makes it easy for even if a player is specced to deal tones of damage, they can quite easy slot some group utility into their utility slot.

 

If you are still incapable of comprehending this then here is the dungeon the OP mentioned. I'd love to see you try and solo that, even at max level (after being downscaled).

  SteeJanz

Novice Member

Joined: 8/22/11
Posts: 346

9/14/12 6:01:57 PM#100
Originally posted by Doomedfox
Originally posted by SteeJanz
Originally posted by Doomedfox
Originally posted by SteeJanz
Originally posted by Doomedfox
 

 

I thought it would be obvious why i asked how they managed to make ythe dungeons not solo friendly a trinity system is based on the classes you need a tank and a healer or else you can not win but GW2 is different and its fanbase was always fast to declare that without the trinity its so much easier to form groups since you do not need specific classes.

Yet here you are telling me that all that was a lie and that you still need specific classes/specs.

You still did not really tell me why i can not do it solo the point that the fights will be decided by playerskills was made countless times so if i have content that does not need a tank or a healer how did Anet prevent it to be done solo?

Do they just throw multiple mobs into your face or is there an actuall system a deeper playstile a well a real reason to pt besiedes the amount of trash mobs?

By now its obvious to me that you can not answer that question and thats ok.

I was told lvl 30 is the first dungeon so i will be able to see it for myself in a week or 2.

I still thank you for your effort even tho it didnt really have anything to do with my question.

[mod edit]   You should expect exactly the same thing from a GW2 dungeon that you expect from an Holy Trinity based dungeon.    There are different fights that require different things,  some require you to move constantly or the boss will kill you, some require you to attack and avoid certain attacks or the boss will kill you, so require you to burn down add the boss spawns, so will be a dps race to get a boss down to a ceartain level to get him out of a certain attack.  just like Holy trinity based games.  The fights are the same, the group make up what is different.  You can't solo a dungeon because you will be dead just like in holy trinity based games.  Is that laying out there too simple for you?

7 Pages « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 » Search