Most socialization occurs during "downtime." Games today just do not have downtime. You instantly heal after every fight and queue up for group content and go. People seldom sit and chat anymore.

Originally posted by AlBQuirky

Most socialization occurs during "downtime." Games today just do not have downtime. You instantly heal after every fight and queue up for group content and go. People seldom sit and chat anymore.

Yeah I think this pretty much nails it. People are just caught up in the game rush. More and more developers adding solocentric, or at least smaller more focused group content has sent the social portion of these games into a tighter and tighter spiral, where any interaction with the majorty of other players isn't needed anymore. Well at least until you need some warm bodies to PUG a dungeon, but most games haved added tools to turn even that experience into a completely non-personal one.

It seems as more companies "streamline" MMOs they start to resemble certain "other" types of games, and the community seems to be mutating with them.

<CLICKY>

So lets take a recent example. Just this friday I decided to pick up GW2 and when the installation was done I jumped into the game. At every dynamic event, heart, wherever I saw people I said "Hi." or "Enjoying the game?". Aside from a few random yes/hi answers nobody even stopped to talk.

If you want socialisation you have to seek it out is what I read a lot here. Talking to other players doesn't seem to work. Talking in map (area) chat doesn't seem to work either, because of LFG spam. Looking for a guild that's not just massive in size, but focused on a smaller group (below the 40 people mark) are rare. I ended up transfering servers because I found out some friends from other games were playing there. I remember the days where people talked to one another, asked to group/play together (as grouping is just the formality) and actually wanted to meet people in these games...

I think quite a lot has to do with the pacing of the game. GW2 is a fast game. You go in, do stuff, you're done. A themepark. I play it my way and press the walk button, enjoy the environment, want to chat to other people and have fun with others in a game. I detest single player games, not because they're bad, but because I like playing with or against other people. If a game is entertaining and there's a lot of nice/social people around then I will have fun and so will they.

Also on a sidenote: The first MMORPG I played was a korean grindfest, but I played it for a long time because all of the active playerbase knew eachother. You had a reputation, guilds had reputations and even hate (world boss killstealing and all that), but at least there was a community where people knew eachother. Also the better xp when in a group helped, but you did need a full group of 7 for it to get the xp bonus. (about 5x kill speed for 80% of xp per kill, which is huge for a grind game)

Originally posted by Tardcore

Originally posted by AlBQuirky

Most socialization occurs during "downtime." Games today just do not have downtime. You instantly heal after every fight and queue up for group content and go. People seldom sit and chat anymore.

Yeah I think this pretty much nails it. People are just caught up in the game rush. More and more developers adding solocentric, or at least smaller more focused group content has sent the social portion of these games into a tighter and tighter spiral, where any interaction with the majorty of other players isn't needed anymore. Well at least until you need some warm bodies to PUG a dungeon, but most games haved added tools to turn even that experience into a completely non-personal one.

 

It seems as more companies "streamline" MMOs they start to resemble certain "other" types of games, and the community seems to be mutating with them.

 

You are correct, this does nail it, it' s not really the players so much as the game mechanics themselves, they just don't permit time for socialization, at least outside of the voice chat you might have going on with your guildmates. (and even then).

Apparently this is what the majority of the player base wanted, but if so I can't figure out why they all leave so quickly after just a few months. (OK, welll maybe that's what they wanted too, a quick in and out experience.)

Until they slow the pacing down some, socialization in MMO's isn't likely to return anytime soon, everyone is just too busy "playing the game", which is what they prefer these days it seems.

Originally posted by AlBQuirky

Most socialization occurs during "downtime." Games today just do not have downtime. You instantly heal after every fight and queue up for group content and go. People seldom sit and chat anymore.

How do you explain UO?

Originally posted by Dewm

But nowdays everything is so fast paced, you join a random group, 1-2minutes.. you get auto transported to the begenning on the dungeon, you zone in...start kiling stuff and all of the skills happen so fast and have fast enough of a cooldown that not many people chat and there is no communications, which not only leads to less socializing but also less communications leads to more mistakes = more disasters.. frustration etc..

so I guess I'm wondering what your opinion is.

Sometimes, people begin to talk despite all of the barriers placed in their way.

Maybe it's time we stopped blaming corporations for (literally) everything.

Originally posted by Icewhite

Originally posted by Dewm

But nowdays everything is so fast paced, you join a random group, 1-2minutes.. you get auto transported to the begenning on the dungeon, you zone in...start kiling stuff and all of the skills happen so fast and have fast enough of a cooldown that not many people chat and there is no communications, which not only leads to less socializing but also less communications leads to more mistakes = more disasters.. frustration etc..

so I guess I'm wondering what your opinion is.

Sometimes, people begin to talk despite all of the barriers placed in their way.

Maybe it's time we stopped blaming corporations for (literally) everything.

Maybe it's time we start to realize that game mechanics have an impact on how people play a game?

Originally posted by TobiasGrey

Originally posted by Icewhite

Originally posted by Dewm

But nowdays everything is so fast paced, you join a random group, 1-2minutes.. you get auto transported to the begenning on the dungeon, you zone in...start kiling stuff and all of the skills happen so fast and have fast enough of a cooldown that not many people chat and there is no communications, which not only leads to less socializing but also less communications leads to more mistakes = more disasters.. frustration etc..

so I guess I'm wondering what your opinion is.

Sometimes, people begin to talk despite all of the barriers placed in their way.

Maybe it's time we stopped blaming corporations for (literally) everything.

Maybe it's time we start to realize that game mechanics have an impact on how people play a game?

If your argument is that they should have more locations, tool and resources for social interaction, then I agree.

If your argument is that the game has a regular cadence of progression and without forcing people to pause they will just run in their exercise wheel til they pass out, then I disagree - that's a people issue.

It is totally the fault of the players, and the newer generation of players that came into the genre after WoW got so huge. I see this influx of gamers that came from the consoles and first-person shooters. They were used to quick deathmatches and that type of gameplay and carried it into the MMORPGs that we love.

To blame the game mechanics is goofey. The games  don't keep people from saying hello while in a group. I seem to always find time to do that when I group up. It is laziness from the players that brings this type of thread about.

That's my take on the subject, so whatever.

Originally posted by Slampig

It is totally the fault of the players, and the newer generation of players that came into the genre after WoW got so huge. I see this influx of gamers that came from the consoles and first-person shooters. They were used to quick deathmatches and that type of gameplay and carried it into the MMORPGs that we love.

To blame the game mechanics is goofey. The games  don't keep people from saying hello while in a group. I seem to always find time to do that when I group up. It is laziness from the players that brings this type of thread about.

That's my take on the subject, so whatever.

Your lack of understanding and perspective is astounding.

It's basic human nature to take the easy way out. When games provide that easy way, even social players will take it sometime. Not everyone is made of stone.

However, if a game is social, it will encourage other social players to join it, and a community will form.

You blame the people, ok... anti social games attract the anti social people. The social people go to the social games.

So it IS based on the mechanics.

Originally posted by TobiasGrey

Originally posted by Slampig

It is totally the fault of the players, and the newer generation of players that came into the genre after WoW got so huge. I see this influx of gamers that came from the consoles and first-person shooters. They were used to quick deathmatches and that type of gameplay and carried it into the MMORPGs that we love.

To blame the game mechanics is goofey. The games  don't keep people from saying hello while in a group. I seem to always find time to do that when I group up. It is laziness from the players that brings this type of thread about.

That's my take on the subject, so whatever.

Your lack of understanding and perspective is astounding.

It's basic human nature to take the easy way out. When games provide that easy way, even social players will take it sometime. Not everyone is made of stone.

However, if a game is social, it will encourage other social players to join it, and a community will form.

You blame the people, ok... anti social games attract the anti social people. The social people go to the social games.

So it IS based on the mechanics.

Can you explain what you mean by "if a game is social"?

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by TobiasGrey

Originally posted by Slampig

It is totally the fault of the players, and the newer generation of players that came into the genre after WoW got so huge. I see this influx of gamers that came from the consoles and first-person shooters. They were used to quick deathmatches and that type of gameplay and carried it into the MMORPGs that we love.

To blame the game mechanics is goofey. The games  don't keep people from saying hello while in a group. I seem to always find time to do that when I group up. It is laziness from the players that brings this type of thread about.

That's my take on the subject, so whatever.

Your lack of understanding and perspective is astounding.

It's basic human nature to take the easy way out. When games provide that easy way, even social players will take it sometime. Not everyone is made of stone.

However, if a game is social, it will encourage other social players to join it, and a community will form.

You blame the people, ok... anti social games attract the anti social people. The social people go to the social games.

So it IS based on the mechanics.

Can you explain what you mean by "if a game is social"?

If a game is built around players working together, be it with crafting, housing, dungeons, general PvE and survivability, it will

a) attract people that enjoy that kind of socializing

b) it'll mold other people playing the game into being more social, because it's more beneficial for them to be social

When a game gives you the same or better rewards for NOT socializing... no social atmosphere will take root, because it doesn't need to.

Originally posted by TobiasGrey

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by TobiasGrey

Originally posted by Slampig

It is totally the fault of the players, and the newer generation of players that came into the genre after WoW got so huge. I see this influx of gamers that came from the consoles and first-person shooters. They were used to quick deathmatches and that type of gameplay and carried it into the MMORPGs that we love.

To blame the game mechanics is goofey. The games  don't keep people from saying hello while in a group. I seem to always find time to do that when I group up. It is laziness from the players that brings this type of thread about.

That's my take on the subject, so whatever.

Your lack of understanding and perspective is astounding.

It's basic human nature to take the easy way out. When games provide that easy way, even social players will take it sometime. Not everyone is made of stone.

However, if a game is social, it will encourage other social players to join it, and a community will form.

You blame the people, ok... anti social games attract the anti social people. The social people go to the social games.

So it IS based on the mechanics.

Can you explain what you mean by "if a game is social"?

If a game is built around players working together, be it with crafting, housing, dungeons, general PvE and survivability, it will

a) attract people that enjoy that kind of socializing

b) it'll mold other people playing the game into being more social, because it's more beneficial for them to be social

When a game gives you the same or better rewards for NOT socializing... no social atmosphere will take root, because it doesn't need to.

So it's the Grouping = Socializing argument. I guess that could work, however it's never been seen to extend any level of socializing beyond the guild/clan unit.

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by TobiasGrey

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by TobiasGrey

Originally posted by Slampig

It is totally the fault of the players, and the newer generation of players that came into the genre after WoW got so huge. I see this influx of gamers that came from the consoles and first-person shooters. They were used to quick deathmatches and that type of gameplay and carried it into the MMORPGs that we love.

To blame the game mechanics is goofey. The games  don't keep people from saying hello while in a group. I seem to always find time to do that when I group up. It is laziness from the players that brings this type of thread about.

That's my take on the subject, so whatever.

Your lack of understanding and perspective is astounding.

It's basic human nature to take the easy way out. When games provide that easy way, even social players will take it sometime. Not everyone is made of stone.

However, if a game is social, it will encourage other social players to join it, and a community will form.

You blame the people, ok... anti social games attract the anti social people. The social people go to the social games.

So it IS based on the mechanics.

Can you explain what you mean by "if a game is social"?

If a game is built around players working together, be it with crafting, housing, dungeons, general PvE and survivability, it will

a) attract people that enjoy that kind of socializing

b) it'll mold other people playing the game into being more social, because it's more beneficial for them to be social

When a game gives you the same or better rewards for NOT socializing... no social atmosphere will take root, because it doesn't need to.

So it's the Grouping = Socializing argument. I guess that could work, however it's never been seen to extend any level of socializing beyond the guild/clan unit.

Have you ever played an MMO before WoW? In DAoC, the primary form of grouping was with PUGs. There were occasional guild events, but since there was no instancing and you benefitted from working with others more than by yourself, people socialized.

And no, its not the "grouping = socializing" argument. It's the "if there are game mechanics that reward people for working together in ANY capacity, there is the groundwork for socializing" argument.

Originally posted by Loktofeit

So it's the Grouping = Socializing argument. I guess that could work, however it's never been seen to extend any level of socializing beyond the guild/clan unit.

Really? I read it as the "co-dependency = socializing", ala EQ1.

Originally posted by Icewhite

Originally posted by Loktofeit

So it's the Grouping = Socializing argument. I guess that could work, however it's never been seen to extend any level of socializing beyond the guild/clan unit.

Really? I read it as the "co-dependency = socializing", ala EQ1.

Co-dependency is not the same as giving better rewards for doing things as a group. In DAoC you could solo all you wanted, but it wasn't going to be as fast as grouping. Grouping is a much harder thing to do, so by design it should yield a greater reward, or people won't do it, and then the feature will vanish for those that like it. It happened in DAoC after they added /level 20 and kill tasks to the game.

Originally posted by TobiasGrey

Originally posted by Icewhite

Originally posted by Loktofeit

So it's the Grouping = Socializing argument. I guess that could work, however it's never been seen to extend any level of socializing beyond the guild/clan unit.

Really? I read it as the "co-dependency = socializing", ala EQ1.

Co-dependency is not the same as giving better rewards for doing things as a group. In DAoC you could solo all you wanted, but it wasn't going to be as fast as grouping. Grouping is a much harder thing to do, so by design it should yield a greater reward, or people won't do it, and then the feature will vanish for those that like it. It happened in DAoC after they added /level 20 and kill tasks to the game.

I'm starting to think DAOC might have been a bit of a unique animal in terms of how the group mechanics worked, Mythic seemed to have hit more or less the perfect storm in terms of balance between soloing and grouping, at least in terms of encouraging players to group.

I didn't play every title back then (who had the time), but the ones I did play had nothing really resembling it.

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by TobiasGrey

Originally posted by Icewhite

Originally posted by Loktofeit

So it's the Grouping = Socializing argument. I guess that could work, however it's never been seen to extend any level of socializing beyond the guild/clan unit.

Really? I read it as the "co-dependency = socializing", ala EQ1.

Co-dependency is not the same as giving better rewards for doing things as a group. In DAoC you could solo all you wanted, but it wasn't going to be as fast as grouping. Grouping is a much harder thing to do, so by design it should yield a greater reward, or people won't do it, and then the feature will vanish for those that like it. It happened in DAoC after they added /level 20 and kill tasks to the game.

I'm starting to think DAOC might have been a bit of a unique animal in terms of how the group mechanics worked, Mythic seemed to have hit more or less the perfect storm in terms of balance between soloing and grouping, at least in terms of encouraging players to group.

I didn't play every title back then (who had the time), but the ones I did play had nothing really resembling it.

 

DAoC did indeed do a ton right. The camp bonus system which encouraged groups to travel around? Group bonus xp? The exponential rate of increasing efficiency when a group added players? I wish WoW had copied DAoC's model, maybe then the game would be more enjoyable to play for everyone. But, the Blizzard devs were all raiders from EQ, so they recreated a watered down version of that experience, warts and all.