Originally posted by Calerxes

These types of threads crack me up and make me think do players just whinge for the sake of it? You have every type of social activity going on in modern MMO's but the OP and others just seem to be oblivious to it all. The thing is that the majority of social activity is happening in guilds all over the place you have RP guilds (light, medium and heavy), hardcore progression raiding guilds, casual social guilds, casual raiding guilds, family guilds, young player guilds, old git guilds, PvP guilds, actual corps in EvE that run the corp like its a real buisiness etc.. I've met players in the open world and then quested and chatted with them. Every MMO I've ever played I've met new people are you guys that socially inept you have to have others forced to do it?

 

I spent most of my time in a group in my 10 months playing WoW, not so much in EQ2 as the UK server was very top heavy but was in a small social guild, My RP guild in LOTRO put on weekly events, I've just left a French guild in Sword2 as my French is rubbish even with O'level French, but it was worth a bash. I see social activity all over the place and isn't the LFD tool being voraciously used in all games that have it? just because players don't swap phone numbers afterwards and fall into a mad Bromance instantly with their new found Brah's doesn't mean it isn't social. I've met people who go out with a big group of friends and don't say two words all night but have a great time. Though of course the game has to force you  to socialise doesn't it? fuck going out of you way to find a group of like minded people noooooo thats too much effort, OH! the irony.

You have missed the point entirely. 

ANY game can be "social" in the degree you speak of- In fact most Online FPS are more "social" than you describe. What you describe could be attained playing Single Player games while on the Telephone or Ventrillo with your mates. What you describe could be found on Xbawx Live.

Wow is NOTa social MMORPG- Nor are hardly any of the newer MMOs. Yes you can "talk" to your Guild and have Hawt Cybersex with Night Elves, yes you can LARP and RPG and tell Chuck Norris Jokes in barrens- But this is not "social" in the context we speak of any more than (as stated) playing the newest FPS while on speakerphone.

We are talking social within the context of the game World. I.E. Interdependance. Social interaction needed to survive the games enviornment. Social interaction needed to play the game. (no "Dungeon Finder" doesnt count)

We (me anyhow) are not talking about "making virtual friends to hold hands with" as that can be done anywhere- We are talking about something MMORPGs USED to offer. Now that the genres have merged and these piecemeal games have become casual the "social" aspect is dead. Yes you can still "chat"- But that isnt what we are compalining about.

Originally posted by SaintPhilip

Originally posted by Calerxes

These types of threads crack me up and make me think do players just whinge for the sake of it? You have every type of social activity going on in modern MMO's but the OP and others just seem to be oblivious to it all. The thing is that the majority of social activity is happening in guilds all over the place you have RP guilds (light, medium and heavy), hardcore progression raiding guilds, casual social guilds, casual raiding guilds, family guilds, young player guilds, old git guilds, PvP guilds, actual corps in EvE that run the corp like its a real buisiness etc.. I've met players in the open world and then quested and chatted with them. Every MMO I've ever played I've met new people are you guys that socially inept you have to have others forced to do it?

 

I spent most of my time in a group in my 10 months playing WoW, not so much in EQ2 as the UK server was very top heavy but was in a small social guild, My RP guild in LOTRO put on weekly events, I've just left a French guild in Sword2 as my French is rubbish even with O'level French, but it was worth a bash. I see social activity all over the place and isn't the LFD tool being voraciously used in all games that have it? just because players don't swap phone numbers afterwards and fall into a mad Bromance instantly with their new found Brah's doesn't mean it isn't social. I've met people who go out with a big group of friends and don't say two words all night but have a great time. Though of course the game has to force you  to socialise doesn't it? fuck going out of you way to find a group of like minded people noooooo thats too much effort, OH! the irony.

You have missed the point entirely. 

ANY game can be "social" in the degree you speak of- In fact most Online FPS are more "social" than you describe. What you describe could be attained playing Single Player games while on the Telephone or Ventrillo with your mates. What you describe could be found on Xbawx Live.

Wow is NOTa social MMORPG- Nor are hardly any of the newer MMOs. Yes you can "talk" to your Guild and have Hawt Cybersex with Night Elves, yes you can LARP and RPG and tell Chuck Norris Jokes in barrens- But this is not "social" in the context we speak of any more than (as stated) playing the newest FPS while on speakerphone.

We are talking social within the context of the game World. I.E. Interdependance. Social interaction needed to survive the games enviornment. Social interaction needed to play the game. (no "Dungeon Finder" doesnt count)

We (me anyhow) are not talking about "making virtual friends to hold hands with" as that can be done anywhere- We are talking about something MMORPGs USED to offer. Now that the genres have merged and these piecemeal games have become casual the "social" aspect is dead. Yes you can still "chat"- But that isnt what we are compalining about.

 

No I haven't missed the point because being interpendent is not the only aspect of being social and in modern games I've had players do things for me to help me overcome the trials of the game and there is interdepedence in PvP, PvE, raiding, crafting in most games so that form of interdependence is there still its just not forced on you. It seems as with all these arguments that the OP is missing his specific type of gameplay that has changed to be more accessible but is still there in modern games but refuses to see it. The problem you have if you try to force any type of gameplay onto the playerbase the respective playerbases starts to shrink meaning there is less money going to be put into those games from the start and that inturn shrinks the respective playerbase again. Many of these threads hope for a AAA sandbox social game that costs millions of dollars to make, looks and plays beautifully, has all the forced features of old MMO's but would have a small playerbase, sorry ain't going to happen. 

Originally posted by Calerxes

Originally posted by SaintPhilip

Originally posted by Calerxes

These types of threads crack me up and make me think do players just whinge for the sake of it? You have every type of social activity going on in modern MMO's but the OP and others just seem to be oblivious to it all. The thing is that the majority of social activity is happening in guilds all over the place you have RP guilds (light, medium and heavy), hardcore progression raiding guilds, casual social guilds, casual raiding guilds, family guilds, young player guilds, old git guilds, PvP guilds, actual corps in EvE that run the corp like its a real buisiness etc.. I've met players in the open world and then quested and chatted with them. Every MMO I've ever played I've met new people are you guys that socially inept you have to have others forced to do it?

 

I spent most of my time in a group in my 10 months playing WoW, not so much in EQ2 as the UK server was very top heavy but was in a small social guild, My RP guild in LOTRO put on weekly events, I've just left a French guild in Sword2 as my French is rubbish even with O'level French, but it was worth a bash. I see social activity all over the place and isn't the LFD tool being voraciously used in all games that have it? just because players don't swap phone numbers afterwards and fall into a mad Bromance instantly with their new found Brah's doesn't mean it isn't social. I've met people who go out with a big group of friends and don't say two words all night but have a great time. Though of course the game has to force you  to socialise doesn't it? fuck going out of you way to find a group of like minded people noooooo thats too much effort, OH! the irony.

You have missed the point entirely. 

ANY game can be "social" in the degree you speak of- In fact most Online FPS are more "social" than you describe. What you describe could be attained playing Single Player games while on the Telephone or Ventrillo with your mates. What you describe could be found on Xbawx Live.

Wow is NOTa social MMORPG- Nor are hardly any of the newer MMOs. Yes you can "talk" to your Guild and have Hawt Cybersex with Night Elves, yes you can LARP and RPG and tell Chuck Norris Jokes in barrens- But this is not "social" in the context we speak of any more than (as stated) playing the newest FPS while on speakerphone.

We are talking social within the context of the game World. I.E. Interdependance. Social interaction needed to survive the games enviornment. Social interaction needed to play the game. (no "Dungeon Finder" doesnt count)

We (me anyhow) are not talking about "making virtual friends to hold hands with" as that can be done anywhere- We are talking about something MMORPGs USED to offer. Now that the genres have merged and these piecemeal games have become casual the "social" aspect is dead. Yes you can still "chat"- But that isnt what we are compalining about.

 

 

No I haven't missed the point because being interpendent is not the only aspect of being social and in modern games I've had players do things for me to help me overcome the trials of the game and there is interdepedence in PvP, PvE, raiding, crafting in most games so that form of interdependence is there still its just not forced on you. It seems as with all these arguments that the OP is missing his specific type of gameplay that has changed to be more accessible but is still there in modern games but refuses to see it. The problem you have if you try to force any type of gameplay onto the playerbase the respective playerbases starts to shrink meaning there is less money going to be put into those games from the start and that inturn shrinks the respective playerbase again. Many of these threads hope for a AAA sandbox social game that costs millions of dollars to make, looks and plays beautifully, has all the forced features of old MMO's but would have a small playerbase, sorry ain't going to happen. 

I think you are mistaken- I think we WILL see a game like this made since its nothing but Flop after flop with the non player retintive "theme park" market.

And there is no interdependince in Modern games (most anyhow) beyond a quick Dungeon Run or RP fest. Ibterdependence comes when people are specialized. In Most modern gamnes everyone is the "Hero", everyone "Wins" and everyone can do just about everything. Crafting is either blatantly easy or useless (so people who do not "like" to craft do not have to since it has no real in game meaning)-

I know many have never experienced a real "social" game (not a virtual chatroom with quick battles) but the player retention is much higher and the cost to develop actuually should be lower (less dependant on dev content, no Billion dollar voice overs and "story" we all follow) and think when I am saying "social" I mean "chatting".... If I want to "chat about my RL" I have real friends.

When is the last time you played a game and chatted about IN GAME EVENTS? Telling your mates about changes to the game World yopu just discovered? You cannot because the game world is static so "social" means edating and guild drama.

The idea behind making a game social is that class A is dependant on class B and class B upon Class C. Cl;ass C is dependent upon class A... Not just for FIGHTING, but for Gear, mats etc.

As a guild leader, I prefer the current MMO climate.

Back in the so-called "good old days", people were forced to socialize in order to progress.  To some people on here, being forced to socialize sounds like a good idea, but let's take it apart a bit more. 

If players are forced to socialize, then the people who don't want to socialize have to look for a guild.  When they decide to join my guild (which is based around social events, hosting world events for all gameplay types, and generally being a respectful force that strives to leave the community better than it was), they fill up my guild roster and don't show up to all the stuff we focus on - except the events that reward them with the loot they need to go forward.  I do not want this kind of player in my guild.

These days, if players want socialization, they are forced to seek it out themselves.  Therefore, almost everyone who applies to my guild is genuinely interested in socializing and being a positive force in the community.  Because the people who are solely in it for the loot have other options, I now have no doubt that anyone who expresses interest in my guild has the 'right' reasons for doing so. 

The only people who can't find socialization in the current MMO landscape are people who are plain bad at socializing.  This is exactly how it should be, and my guild has prospered because of it. 

If you want to play socially, find guilds like mine.  Hit up the forums.  Get involved with the people who act as caretakers for the server you are on, like the people who often get their posts stickied.  Join user chat channels and actually talk to people instead of whining on MMORPG.com about it.  Don't be awkward. 

If you can't find social players, then there's something wrong with your approach [mod edit]

Originally posted by Khaeros

As a guild leader, I prefer the current MMO climate.

 

Back in the so-called "good old days", people were forced to socialize in order to progress.  To some people on here, being forced to socialize sounds like a good idea, but let's take it apart a bit more. 

Except that's not true... you were rewarded for socializing, but never forced to do it, except for a few classes in EQ. Let's stop pretending every pre WoW MMO was EQ, k?

Rewarding socializing and grouping is a great idea. Why? Because its harder. Doing harder things should yield a better reward than taking the easy route. In DAoC, I could solo to level cap. To me, it wasn't as fun, so I didn't do it. But there were many people who really didn't like grouping who did this, and the game let them. It was simply more rewarding to group. Both players had their respective play styles honored. In modern MMOs, the only play style that is catered to is the solo quest grinder that likes WoW and its millions of clones.

That's another big difference with modern and oldschool MMOs. Old MMOs catered to TONS of play styles. Modern MMOs cater to ONE.

Originally posted by Khaeros

As a guild leader, I prefer the current MMO climate.

 

Back in the so-called "good old days", people were forced to socialize in order to progress.  To some people on here, being forced to socialize sounds like a good idea, but let's take it apart a bit more. 

 

If players are forced to socialize, then the people who don't want to socialize have to look for a guild.  When they decide to join my guild (which is based around social events, hosting world events for all gameplay types, and generally being a respectful force that strives to leave the community better than it was), they fill up my guild roster and don't show up to all the stuff we focus on - except the events that reward them with the loot they need to go forward.  I do not want this kind of player in my guild.

 

These days, if players want socialization, they are forced to seek it out themselves.  Therefore, almost everyone who applies to my guild is genuinely interested in socializing and being a positive force in the community.  Because the people who are solely in it for the loot have other options, I now have no doubt that anyone who expresses interest in my guild has the 'right' reasons for doing so. 

 

The only people who can't find socialization in the current MMO landscape are people who are plain bad at socializing.  This is exactly how it should be, and my guild has prospered because of it. 

 

If you want to play socially, find guilds like mine.  Hit up the forums.  Get involved with the people who act as caretakers for the server you are on, like the people who often get their posts stickied.  Join user chat channels and actually talk to people instead of whining on MMORPG.com about it.  Don't be awkward. 

 

If you can't find social players, then there's something wrong with your approach - or you're just an anti-social neckbeard ironically lashing out at the community for not accepting you into their social circles.

 

 

I dont want to join your little guild to "chat" with you. I do not care to "chat" with you nor work through your "ranks" (which have zero real meaning)

Not being offensive here- But you are missing the point also.

What does your Guild offer which I cannot do on my own? I can chat with my real life friends and use Dungeon finder for groups. What does being part of your Guild offer me "in game" other than a new chat screen? That ISNT the type of social I am speaking of.

Note: I am not personally saying "your Guild" I am just generally trying to make a point. Guilds in modern MMOs are there for chat pretty much and little else. No in game bearing beyond a Cloak, a Tag and a new Chat. The most fun I have with Guilds is watching the Drama unfold.

Games which have done Guild RIGHT would include Ryzom- Your Guild holds territory and can declare War against another Guild (which costs money and resourses) and being a "top guild" really has influence in the games structure. A REASON beyond a chat bar to be in a guild.

Originally posted by TobiasGrey

Originally posted by Khaeros

As a guild leader, I prefer the current MMO climate.

 

Back in the so-called "good old days", people were forced to socialize in order to progress.  To some people on here, being forced to socialize sounds like a good idea, but let's take it apart a bit more. 

Except that's not true... you were rewarded for socializing, but never forced to do it, except for a few classes in EQ. Let's stop pretending every pre WoW MMO was EQ, k?

Rewarding socializing and grouping is a great idea. Why? Because its harder. Doing harder things should yield a better reward than taking the easy route. In DAoC, I could solo to level cap. To me, it wasn't as fun, so I didn't do it. But there were many people who really didn't like grouping who did this, and the game let them. It was simply more rewarding to group. Both players had their respective play styles honored. In modern MMOs, the only play style that is catered to is the solo quest grinder that likes WoW and its millions of clones.

That's another big difference with modern and oldschool MMOs. Old MMOs catered to TONS of play styles. Modern MMOs cater to ONE.

So true-

But then not everyone could get the best reward without being "forced" to do something they do not like. Its the reason we have pointless crafting, easy Mobs and everyone wins mentality.

Originally posted by Theocritus
    I think people are so socialized from facebook, twitter, and their cell phones that they don't need it from their MMOs.

They why play an MMO, play single player games, when I want to play alone thats what I play, now if I wanna play with others I play a MMo, i'm confused, older game and older games do want to play, I think kids today are ANTI Social because of this texting crap we have and facebook, twitter, look who made Facebook, he was a person who was anti social and still is.

Case closed... Hell Mark even screwed over his only friend look what type of world we live in now people are zombies, and people wonder why games like COH are closing people play games to play with others for the most part and now there turning into this ME, ME ME attitude as other person pointed out in this thread.

Players only have them selfs to blame when games fall apart..

Originally posted by Darkcrystal

Originally posted by Theocritus
    I think people are so socialized from facebook, twitter, and their cell phones that they don't need it from their MMOs.

They why play an MMO, play single player games, when I want to play alone thats what I play, now if I wanna play with others I play a MMo, i'm confused, older game and older games do want to play, I think kids today are ANTI Social because of this texting crap we have and facebook, twitter, look who made Facebook, he was a person who was anti social and still is.

Case closed... Hell Mark even screwed over his only friend look what type of world we live in now people are zombies, and people wonder why games like COH are closing people play games to play with others for the most part and now there turning into this ME, ME ME attitude as other person pointed out in this thread.

 

Players only have them selfs to blame when games fall apart..

They play so they can march around Town (in front of Noobs) with their huge shoulderpadded puple armor and act all elite because they have "put more time in".

Seriously...its all I can figure out. Why would you play an MMO and not want any socialization other than to be "seen" by other "people" while wearing cool gear you got for putting in hours and "showing up"?

EDIT: I STILL remember the main Villians and most skilled players in UO. They had reputations and were feared or looked up to for their skill. I remember getting "tiipped off" that I was being hunted by someone who was far more skillful than myself (I was going to lose lol) and having to travel with friends for protection until things were worked out... Nowadays everyone is the most skillful if they put "their time in". Everyone can get those huge shoulderpads lol

Originally posted by SaintPhilip

Originally posted by Darkcrystal

Originally posted by Theocritus
    I think people are so socialized from facebook, twitter, and their cell phones that they don't need it from their MMOs.

They why play an MMO, play single player games, when I want to play alone thats what I play, now if I wanna play with others I play a MMo, i'm confused, older game and older games do want to play, I think kids today are ANTI Social because of this texting crap we have and facebook, twitter, look who made Facebook, he was a person who was anti social and still is.

Case closed... Hell Mark even screwed over his only friend look what type of world we live in now people are zombies, and people wonder why games like COH are closing people play games to play with others for the most part and now there turning into this ME, ME ME attitude as other person pointed out in this thread.

 

Players only have them selfs to blame when games fall apart..

They play so they can march around Town (in front of Noobs) with their huge shoulderpadded puple armor and act all elite because they have "put more time in".

Seriously...its all I can figure out. Why would you play an MMO and not want any socialization other than to be "seen" by other "people" while wearing cool gear you got for putting in hours and "showing up"?

EDIT: I STILL remember the main Villians and most skilled players in UO. They had reputations and were feared or looked up to for their skill. I remember getting "tiipped off" that I was being hunted by someone who was far more skillful than myself (I was going to lose lol) and having to travel with friends for protection until things were worked out... Nowadays everyone is the most skillful if they put "their time in". Everyone can get those huge shoulderpads lol

its a falic manifestation, since they are antisocial then cant show their e-pe** in real life, and game provide that in a way

Originally posted by SaintPhilip

Not being offensive here- But you are missing the point also.

What does your Guild offer which I cannot do on my own? I can chat with my real life friends and use Dungeon finder for groups. What does being part of your Guild offer me "in game" other than a new chat screen? That ISNT the type of social I am speaking of.

Note: I am not personally saying "your Guild" I am just generally trying to make a point. Guilds in modern MMOs are there for chat pretty much and little else. No in game bearing beyond a Cloak, a Tag and a new Chat. The most fun I have with Guilds is watching the Drama unfold.

Games which have done Guild RIGHT would include Ryzom- Your Guild holds territory and can declare War against another Guild (which costs money and resourses) and being a "top guild" really has influence in the games structure. A REASON beyond a chat bar to be in a guild.

Actually, it's you missing the point.

The kind of player I accept into my guild isn't typically concerned about lording power over other players in the form of territorial control, or a great amount of 'guild perks'.  To us, enjoyment of a game doesn't come from how much 'power' and 'influence' we have over the server.

We're talking people that want to build communities and understand the value of having a group effort in designing them.

It's a great thing to play what the developers give us in the game, to experience its content.  But to us, there's one thing better - creating the content that players can look back upon and say they enjoyed with us and the rest of the players in the community.

We're the people that write guides for the games we love, organize the server events that pull guilds together for some fun, create websites to assist other players in their journey, and motivate other players on our server to have a positive impact on the game.

It takes a different mind to understand us, I'm sure.  But several of our members are naturally this community-focused in real life - volunteers and community-supporters in many ways from fire-fighting to non-profit organizations to other social / public workers.  We enjoy the game and have a blast playing with each other, but we get even more enjoyment out of watching other players from across the server take part in spontaneous PvP events that we hand-crafted for the enjoyment of all.

Why would you want to be forced to socialize just to progress in a game, when you can be free to socialize with like-minded people and not have people who are 'just in it for the loot' bothering you?  It's not about 'easy' or 'hard' games with us - we don't care about difficulty - we just care about people having fun across the entire game.

The guild chat isn't too bad, either.  :)

Cant speak for anyone else but my participation, or lack thereof, is a by-product of the community.

If its a good community then people will likely group to help each other out, give free buffs, answer questions,etc. If the community reminds me of a 3rd grade class with a substitute teacher goes to the bathroom then chances are noone will do any of the above, nor  should they IMO.

WoW killed socialization in MMOs and video killed the radio star.**  =)

**(not really but its nice to be able to blame WoW for everything isn't it?)

Originally posted by SaintPhilip

Originally posted by TobiasGrey

Originally posted by Khaeros

As a guild leader, I prefer the current MMO climate.

 

Back in the so-called "good old days", people were forced to socialize in order to progress.  To some people on here, being forced to socialize sounds like a good idea, but let's take it apart a bit more. 

Except that's not true... you were rewarded for socializing, but never forced to do it, except for a few classes in EQ. Let's stop pretending every pre WoW MMO was EQ, k?

Rewarding socializing and grouping is a great idea. Why? Because its harder. Doing harder things should yield a better reward than taking the easy route. In DAoC, I could solo to level cap. To me, it wasn't as fun, so I didn't do it. But there were many people who really didn't like grouping who did this, and the game let them. It was simply more rewarding to group. Both players had their respective play styles honored. In modern MMOs, the only play style that is catered to is the solo quest grinder that likes WoW and its millions of clones.

That's another big difference with modern and oldschool MMOs. Old MMOs catered to TONS of play styles. Modern MMOs cater to ONE.

So true-

But then not everyone could get the best reward without being "forced" to do something they do not like. Its the reason we have pointless crafting, easy Mobs and everyone wins mentality.

MMO companies are trying to court WoW's audience, and they're absolutely terrified of allowing anyone to fail.

Originally posted by SaintPhilip

Originally posted by Calerxes

Originally posted by SaintPhilip

Originally posted by Calerxes

Snip!

I think you are mistaken- I think we WILL see a game like this made since its nothing but Flop after flop with the non player retintive "theme park" market.

And there is no interdependince in Modern games (most anyhow) beyond a quick Dungeon Run or RP fest. Ibterdependence comes when people are specialized. In Most modern gamnes everyone is the "Hero", everyone "Wins" and everyone can do just about everything. Crafting is either blatantly easy or useless (so people who do not "like" to craft do not have to since it has no real in game meaning)-

I know many have never experienced a real "social" game (not a virtual chatroom with quick battles) but the player retention is much higher and the cost to develop actuually should be lower (less dependant on dev content, no Billion dollar voice overs and "story" we all follow) and think when I am saying "social" I mean "chatting".... If I want to "chat about my RL" I have real friends.

When is the last time you played a game and chatted about IN GAME EVENTS? Telling your mates about changes to the game World yopu just discovered? You cannot because the game world is static so "social" means edating and guild drama.

The idea behind making a game social is that class A is dependant on class B and class B upon Class C. Cl;ass C is dependent upon class A... Not just for FIGHTING, but for Gear, mats etc.

There is plenty of interdependency in modern MMO's its just not forced it happens naturally through playing the game. If you choose not to see it thats your problem. 

Originally posted by TobiasGrey

Rewarding socializing and grouping is a great idea. Why? Because its harder. Doing harder things should yield a better reward than taking the easy route.

Our definitions of 'social' are a little different, then.

I'm not concerned with the small, singular journey of one player or small group to the level cap in a game.  To call group leveling 'social' is an extreme overstatement, to me.

I'm talking 'social' as in server-wide communities, events that tie in entire guilds with each other, creating a positive mentality with respectable ideals that encourages other players to do the same to the new players, 'passing it forward'.  Leaving the community in a better shape than it was when we took root.

It's larger than just the leveling experience.  It's about making an event where everyone worth mentioning on a server shows up and loves every moment of it, coming together (or going against each other if we are talking more PvP-heavy games) in camraderie or rivarly.

That's social.  That's developing a sense of community.  Some people like to say that they want a social game.  We make it.

Originally posted by Khaeros

Originally posted by SaintPhilip

Not being offensive here- But you are missing the point also.

What does your Guild offer which I cannot do on my own? I can chat with my real life friends and use Dungeon finder for groups. What does being part of your Guild offer me "in game" other than a new chat screen? That ISNT the type of social I am speaking of.

Note: I am not personally saying "your Guild" I am just generally trying to make a point. Guilds in modern MMOs are there for chat pretty much and little else. No in game bearing beyond a Cloak, a Tag and a new Chat. The most fun I have with Guilds is watching the Drama unfold.

Games which have done Guild RIGHT would include Ryzom- Your Guild holds territory and can declare War against another Guild (which costs money and resourses) and being a "top guild" really has influence in the games structure. A REASON beyond a chat bar to be in a guild.

 

Actually, it's you missing the point.

 

The kind of player I accept into my guild isn't typically concerned about lording power over other players in the form of territorial control, or a great amount of 'guild perks'.  To us, enjoyment of a game doesn't come from how much 'power' and 'influence' we have over the server.

 

We're talking people that want to build communities and understand the value of having a group effort in designing them.

 

It's a great thing to play what the developers give us in the game, to experience its content.  But to us, there's one thing better - creating the content that players can look back upon and say they enjoyed with us and the rest of the players in the community.

 

We're the people that write guides for the games we love, organize the server events that pull guilds together for some fun, create websites to assist other players in their journey, and motivate other players on our server to have a positive impact on the game.

 

It takes a different mind to understand us, I'm sure.  But several of our members are naturally this community-focused in real life - volunteers and community-supporters in many ways from fire-fighting to non-profit organizations to other social / public workers.  We enjoy the game and have a blast playing with each other, but we get even more enjoyment out of watching other players from across the server take part in spontaneous PvP events that we hand-crafted for the enjoyment of all.

 

Why would you want to be forced to socialize just to progress in a game, when you can be free to socialize with like-minded people and not have people who are 'just in it for the loot' bothering you?  It's not about 'easy' or 'hard' games with us - we don't care about difficulty - we just care about people having fun across the entire game.

 

The guild chat isn't too bad, either.  :)

No. I get it. And I see the value in being social in the way you speak of- Its important.

BUT NOT what I am talking about. Having territory Control iosnt "lording power over people", having Guild Ranks IS since there is no reason to even have such things as they have no game bearing (except an imaginary one)

Territory Control has IN GAME MEANING. Not imaginary. Its a "Call to arms" when attacked. It gives a reason for the Guild beyond Imaginary ones and social ones (in the "social" context you speak of)- Its like RPing with RULES. It gives an emotional attachment by involving you in direct conflict with the game world and only by depending on one another can you overcome.

Thats good stuff-

And you are not FORCED to participate. There are "Friend and Family" type Guilds in those games which avoid War entirly, RP Guilds which play imagination games with no bearing on the game world- BUT there is also the OPTION to make your Guild more...

It has to do with your impact (or lack therof) upon the gameworld. Anyone can group up , travel together , etc. Anyone can chat together. Anyone can "assist" one another. Thats great and IS social. But not to the degree I am speaking.

Originally posted by Khaeros

Originally posted by TobiasGrey

Rewarding socializing and grouping is a great idea. Why? Because its harder. Doing harder things should yield a better reward than taking the easy route.

 

Our definitions of 'social' are a little different, then.

 

I'm not concerned with the small, singular journey of one player or small group to the level cap in a game.  To call group leveling 'social' is an extreme overstatement, to me.

 

I'm talking 'social' as in server-wide communities, events that tie in entire guilds with each other, creating a positive mentality with respectable ideals that encourages other players to do the same to the new players, 'passing it forward'.  Leaving the community in a better shape than it was when we took root.

 

It's larger than just the leveling experience.  It's about making an event and watching players love every moment of it, coming together (or against each other if we are talking more PvP-heavy games) in camraderie or rivarly.

 

That's social.

YES YES YES-

We are not talking about an efriend here, or a new chat bar.... We are talking about a social dynamic that works IN GAME

Originally posted by Khaeros

Originally posted by TobiasGrey

Rewarding socializing and grouping is a great idea. Why? Because its harder. Doing harder things should yield a better reward than taking the easy route.

 

Our definitions of 'social' are a little different, then.

 

I'm not concerned with the small, singular journey of one player or small group to the level cap in a game.  To call group leveling 'social' is an extreme overstatement, to me.

 

I'm talking 'social' as in server-wide communities, events that tie in entire guilds with each other, creating a positive mentality with respectable ideals that encourages other players to do the same to the new players, 'passing it forward'.  Leaving the community in a better shape than it was when we took root.

 

It's larger than just the leveling experience.  It's about making an event where everyone worth mentioning on a server shows up and loves every moment of it, coming together (or going against each other if we are talking more PvP-heavy games) in camraderie or rivarly.

 

That's social.  That's developing a sense of community.  Some people like to say that they want a social game.  We make it.

Right, and grouping is a big part of that. So is providing ways that people can impact each other's gameplay experience. Most MMOs now focus on splitting people apart and making sure you never need anyone else. There were inter guild alliances in DAoC because everyone had a common foe, in the frontiers, and you needed teamwork to do anything worthwhile. Even raids were large alliance wide affairs because unless you got the BEST OF THE BEST players together, a lot of raids took 80+ people.

In modern games, there is no harsh world to band people together. There are no crafting interedependencies. There are no class skills that are purely support. There's no out of combat abilities in general usually. There's no incentive to ever unite with someone else. It's all sanitized and instanced.

Originally posted by SaintPhilip

Originally posted by Khaeros

Originally posted by TobiasGrey

Rewarding socializing and grouping is a great idea. Why? Because its harder. Doing harder things should yield a better reward than taking the easy route.

 

Our definitions of 'social' are a little different, then.

 

I'm not concerned with the small, singular journey of one player or small group to the level cap in a game.  To call group leveling 'social' is an extreme overstatement, to me.

 

I'm talking 'social' as in server-wide communities, events that tie in entire guilds with each other, creating a positive mentality with respectable ideals that encourages other players to do the same to the new players, 'passing it forward'.  Leaving the community in a better shape than it was when we took root.

 

It's larger than just the leveling experience.  It's about making an event and watching players love every moment of it, coming together (or against each other if we are talking more PvP-heavy games) in camraderie or rivarly.

 

That's social.

YES YES YES-

We are not talking about an efriend here, or a new chat bar.... We are talking about a social dynamic that works IN GAME

Being social has many meanings and thats why MMO's have developed to not force that diverse audience into doing something they don't care for but it doesn't mean the social aspect has gone its just changed and I put up the miryad of different guilds that socialise in their own way, its up to you find the community that offers your chosen social activities such as Khaeros' guild. Modern MMO's are more inclusive than they've ever been they are not perfect but they mirror modern society in that inclusiveness.