Originally posted by itgrowls

Originally posted by Wootloops

These are my main issues with Guild Wars 2, and why WoW is going to remain my main game:

When compared to WoW:

1. Less ability to become the best and show it off.
 

Meh.

2. Combat is boring and takes little skill (Yes, WoW’s combat does take more skill; much more in fact. And I’ve gotten Gladiator so I have experience):

smh. /facedesk sorry but you don't use every single WoW ability while fighting, no one does. There are pleanty of obsolete or imbalanced skills in WoW and just because they fixed a tiny few to bring people back to the game (and to try to spike their revenue) doesn't mean you use every skill. That's nonsense. WoW combat, movement, skills are all boring because you don't have to think, you setup your macros and press the same 2 buttons and occasionally use some defense button if you have one. Bubblehearth anyone?

In general:

1. Not enough sandbox elements.

2. PvE is separate from PvP.

-I’m mostly a PvP player so this is why this is a big issue for me. I want my PvE to be intertwined with my PvP. I want to go all around the world and see the landscapes and fight dragons, all while doing mainly PvP activities. Instead I’m stuck in the hideous mists (They really could have designed that place aesthetically better and more diverse). But to their credit they do add some PvE elements into WvW and sPvP, but they’re rather boring.

So sitting around waiting to pounce on someone who comes along who accidently setup their account on a pvp server and just came out of the beginner zone is more fun, because really that's the only difference between the two, other then wvwvw. 

3. Not enough compelling “alternative to normal combat” activities.

-To their credit, they tried with their “activities”, but they’re too basic and simple. WoW’s new pokemon activity is an example of a good alternative activity.

I'm sorry WHA? smh, how in the world is a pokemon style minigame better then the activities in .....weird.

Parting thought:

-I think the key to the perfect MMO (At least for me) is having a robust sandbox game with a huge multitude of themepark-esque competitive/ranked PvP activities.

So you come down on a game that's closer to being sandbox then anything Blizzard has ever touched to date but claim that WoW is more of a sandbox then the game that's actually more of a sandbox then WoW?

Anyone else see the holes here?

 

Obviously didn't play WoW to gladiator level. Please don't respond to things you don't have the slightest clue about. No high end PvP'er just hits a couple buttons for starters.

Originally posted by itgrowls

Originally posted by Wootloops

2. PvE is separate from PvP.

-I’m mostly a PvP player so this is why this is a big issue for me. I want my PvE to be intertwined with my PvP. I want to go all around the world and see the landscapes and fight dragons, all while doing mainly PvP activities. Instead I’m stuck in the hideous mists (They really could have designed that place aesthetically better and more diverse). But to their credit they do add some PvE elements into WvW and sPvP, but they’re rather boring.

So sitting around waiting to pounce on someone who comes along who accidently setup their account on a pvp server and just came out of the beginner zone is more fun, because really that's the only difference between the two, other then wvwvw. 

 

I just had to weigh in on this one response from you... You make a few unfair assumptions here:

First, you're assuming that people who create characters on PvP servers are doing it accidentally. I can tell you this is almost never the case as there are plenty of notifications along the way to indicate just what you're doing.

Second, you assume that he's just sitting in the newbie zones waiting to grief somebody. Do people do that? Yes they do. Do a majority of people do that? No, no they do not. Most of us world pvp advocates are not ass hats. Most of us want the fluid experience of killing a monster, and then turning around and engaging in pvp at random times.

So, no. The differences between the two are not so overly simplified.

Originally posted by tkoreaper

Tell us what they all do :)

1 - Melee priority 3 attack.

2 - Slow / DoT application.

3 - Purge / Range priority 2 attack.

4 - Melee priority 2 attack.

5 - Melee priority 1 attack.

6 - Burst.

7 - Range priority 1 attack.

8 - Interrupt.

9 - Pull target to me.

10 - Priority 3 heal / fear and poly immunity.

- - Breaking stealth.

= - Priority 1 heal.

Mouse 1 - Mount.

Shift 8 - Set-up for desparate heal.

C - Spell damage reduction.

Z - Damage reduction.

X - Escape snare or slow.

Mouse wheel - Buff.

F - Escape CC.

V - Silence.

Q - Break stun / damage reduction.

E - Spell damage immunity.

R - Remove slow / sprint.

T - Burst.

Shift F - Swap stance for movement speed incease.

Shift E - Priority 4 heal.

Shift R - Summon pet to help with burst / keep target from going stealth.

Shift 2 - Killing healers/bearforms/blood DKs.

Shift 5 - Priority 2 heal.

Shift 1 - DoT and reduced damage output application.

Shift 4 - Dueling macro, not an ability.

Shift 5 - Reduced damage when falling.

Shift 6 - Killing hunter snakes / revealing stealth.

Shift = - My gloating macro.

Shift 9 - Stealing DK pets.

Shift 0 - Combat res.

Originally posted by SteeJanz

Originally posted by JimmyYO

GW2 is a good game, just not a great one due to glaring issues. The first being if you enjoy competitve PvP there is no point to leveling at all. I was rolling with my level 80 PvP buddies while I'm level 2 and they're all wondering why they wasted so much time in a PvE that doesn't matter. Even to PvE players it doesn't matter because theres absolutely nothing to do at 80.

You should at least be able to make your PvP armor match your PvE....IN THE LOBBY. The PvP is alot funner then WoW's imo, much more fast paced and skillful. WoW arenas are like a game of chess wheres GW's is more like Contact Sports. There's a reason one is watched over the other.

That said WoW is much more polished and intelligently designed, aka player retention in mind. But it also has a monthly fee so it's a close decision really. PvE wise I think WoW wins no contest just because there is at least some purpose after max level. I think the PvP is much better in GW 2 though, much more esport viable.

Speaking PVE here, but in all honesty there is plenty to do in GW2.  The only thing WOW has is raids.  But have you been to the last 3 zones in GW2.  I bet it is impossible to control all the waypoints in any of those maps.  YOu could spend and infinite amount of time in those zones fighting to retain or retake areas.  Is it a raid, no.  But I would almost be willing to bet that a 25 man raid group couldn't control every way point in the entire map.  Because by the time you got to the 19th one, the first would be taken over again.   There are countless chest to get gear from, and the karma gear from the vendors in those areas are very cool.  So the rewards are the same as raids, just a different type of content.  I am sure some will like one way or the other but to say that it lacks end game is wrong.  It's just not the endgame you like.

It's really not endgame though. It's more of a gimmick that you can get bored of in a single day for intangible rewards. I'm not even remotely alone when I say the only thing to really do in GW2 at 80 is reroll. Oh and enjoy the lack of any socializing whatsoever the entire way to 80. This is a single player game disguised as an MMO, Diablo 3 style.

Spot on. 

I don't have a problem with the amount you are able to use though. I too did a lot of WoW arena. I never made it to glad (i blame teammated :p) I did make it to duelist though. I do have a problem with the amount of abilities you are able to select, particularlly damaging abilities. TSW spoiled me in this regards. There you are able to pick 14+1 of out of all 525. You can pick all damage or all utility or all healing or a mix of all three. 

Originally posted by Dalano

Stock UI hotbars with only a handful of macros? DK or not, most serious WoW pvpers have way more complicated setups than this. 

Which is one of the things I find refreshing about GW2 spvp; build choices are real rather than a mirage. The limitation of hotkeys requires you to think and plan much more since you can't bind every tool to your nostromo.

Most good players use the stock bars actually. It's a common misconception. And here's some credentials for you:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/sargeras/Jambie/statistic#21:154

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/sargeras/Jambie/achievement#81:a886

(Swift Nether Drake is the Gladiator mount)

Originally posted by JimmyYO

Obviously didn't play WoW to gladiator level. Please don't respond to things you don't have the slightest clue about. No high end PvP'er just hits a couple buttons for starters.

I don't want to hit a couple of buttons. That's why I find the combat boring. It's forcing me to. Also:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/sargeras/Jambie/achievement#81:a886

-Attacking consists of mostly auto-attacking (Been the same on Guardian, Mesmer, and Elementalist in both PvP and PvE), and this is due to a mix of the following:

-Not enough attack skills.

-Not enough attack skills with a small enough CD.

-Not enough attack skills with enough superiority over auto-attack to be worth the risk of using.

-Not enough skills overall (In WoW I have about 35-40 skill keybinds and I use each and every one of them).

Sorry but combat is so much more fluid, viscreal, skillful and REAL in GW2.  Remember WoW only offers "Lol jumping and circle strafing"  Neither are which I consider skillful.   Somethign tells me the OP never weapon switched and prolly played with 4 signet builds.

Originally posted by JimmyYO

Originally posted by SteeJanz

Originally posted by JimmyYO

GW2 is a good game, just not a great one due to glaring issues. The first being if you enjoy competitve PvP there is no point to leveling at all. I was rolling with my level 80 PvP buddies while I'm level 2 and they're all wondering why they wasted so much time in a PvE that doesn't matter. Even to PvE players it doesn't matter because theres absolutely nothing to do at 80.

You should at least be able to make your PvP armor match your PvE....IN THE LOBBY. The PvP is alot funner then WoW's imo, much more fast paced and skillful. WoW arenas are like a game of chess wheres GW's is more like Contact Sports. There's a reason one is watched over the other.

That said WoW is much more polished and intelligently designed, aka player retention in mind. But it also has a monthly fee so it's a close decision really. PvE wise I think WoW wins no contest just because there is at least some purpose after max level. I think the PvP is much better in GW 2 though, much more esport viable.

Speaking PVE here, but in all honesty there is plenty to do in GW2.  The only thing WOW has is raids.  But have you been to the last 3 zones in GW2.  I bet it is impossible to control all the waypoints in any of those maps.  YOu could spend and infinite amount of time in those zones fighting to retain or retake areas.  Is it a raid, no.  But I would almost be willing to bet that a 25 man raid group couldn't control every way point in the entire map.  Because by the time you got to the 19th one, the first would be taken over again.   There are countless chest to get gear from, and the karma gear from the vendors in those areas are very cool.  So the rewards are the same as raids, just a different type of content.  I am sure some will like one way or the other but to say that it lacks end game is wrong.  It's just not the endgame you like.

It's really not endgame though. It's more of a gimmick that you can get bored of in a single day for intangible rewards. I'm not even remotely alone when I say the only thing to really do in GW2 at 80 is reroll. Oh and enjoy the lack of any socializing whatsoever the entire way to 80. This is a single player game disguised as an MMO, Diablo 3 style.

You mean just like raiding or any other activity in a game.  What your saying is simply not true.  The gimmick is trying to convience people that what you are saying is true.   I am level 80 and have 50% of the map completed.  I have seen half the world.   I have pelnty to do.  I have opened one way point in the level 80 zone, i have only completed 2 explorable mode dungeons in (4 tries) of the 24 different paths and only 4 of the story mode dungeons so far.  I literally have tons left to do.   The only way that there would be nothing to do is if a year from now, there hasn't been an update.  And yes that last part was a shot at my 2nd favorite MMO. 

Originally posted by Wootloops

Originally posted by JimmyYO

Obviously didn't play WoW to gladiator level. Please don't respond to things you don't have the slightest clue about. No high end PvP'er just hits a couple buttons for starters.

I don't want to hit a couple of buttons. That's why I find the combat boring. It's forcing me to. Also:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/sargeras/Jambie/achievement#81:a886

This is why I know your not telling the truth.

I played a gladiator DK as well and I only needed 15 keybinds TOPS.  Same with Warriors.  At least next time come make up a much harder and more skillful class like a Lock or a Hunter, now those were classes with lots of keybinds required.

PvP'er who likes gear > skill PvP doesn't like GW2 sPvP and how you can't farm said gear to go into open world and pwn noobs with your l337 gears...

sPvP in GW2 is exactly like Arena Tournaments in WoW - all gear is equal, all about player skill and strategy and coordination/communication.

Unless of course you never played Tournament mode sPvP and think the practice mode is all there is.

Having more buttons to hit and more keybinds does not = more skill btw.

Each toon has at least 15 abilities to use + Profession specifics.

All about how you use it.

Originally posted by BadSpock

PvP'er who likes gear > skill PvP doesn't like GW2 sPvP and how you can't farm said gear to go into open world and pwn noobs with your l337 gears...

sPvP in GW2 is exactly like Arena Tournaments in WoW - all gear is equal, all about player skill and strategy and coordination/communication.

Unless of course you never played Tournament mode sPvP and think the practice mode is all there is.

Having more buttons to hit and more keybinds does not = more skill btw.

Each toon has at least 15 abilities to use + Profession specifics.

All about how you use it.

 

Oh, I thought the more abilities you had and could mash, the more pro you were....

Is that why i'm not pro?

Originally posted by Vannor
If the OP really does use all those keybinds successfully then they are obviously a pretty high end PvPer. I've always said that GW2 is not for pro pvpers. GW2's PvP is PvP for people who actually prefer PvE, casual PvPers. I fully understand why GW2 isn't doing it for you OP.

I completely disagree with you on the pro-PVP thing.  I mean if keybinds are what set you apart then I will always be at a disadvantage because I am left handed.  The nostromos, razer naga players will always have better equipment then me because it is designed to make all the keybinding easier and ther is nothing on the market that I can use right now.  There is no left handed mouse available with more than 8 buttons.

Also any game based on stats by rank can never be considered an even play ground to determine if your pro or not because if you put two of the exact same skilled players in different gear, one in starter and one in ranked, the starter gear guy loses everytime.  Besides what is the yearly salary of a WOW PRO-PVP player?

Originally posted by Wolvards

Originally posted by BadSpock

PvP'er who likes gear > skill PvP doesn't like GW2 sPvP and how you can't farm said gear to go into open world and pwn noobs with your l337 gears...

sPvP in GW2 is exactly like Arena Tournaments in WoW - all gear is equal, all about player skill and strategy and coordination/communication.

Unless of course you never played Tournament mode sPvP and think the practice mode is all there is.

Having more buttons to hit and more keybinds does not = more skill btw.

Each toon has at least 15 abilities to use + Profession specifics.

All about how you use it.

Oh, I thought the more abilities you had and could mash, the more pro you were....

Is that why i'm not pro?

WoW and many if not most other MMORPG's have such terrible PvP balance because of the fact they have so many damn buttons to press which equates directly to abilities to balance.

1/2 the "skill" in being a "PRO-PVPer" in games like WoW is making the right choice at character creation.

All the proof you need is looking at the team comps during the Arena Tournaments. Almost every team in the final few rounds is generally the exact same class composition.

Originally posted by BadSpock

PvP'er who likes gear > skill PvP doesn't like GW2 sPvP and how you can't farm said gear to go into open world and pwn noobs with your l337 gears...

sPvP in GW2 is exactly like Arena Tournaments in WoW - all gear is equal, all about player skill and strategy and coordination/communication.

Unless of course you never played Tournament mode sPvP and think the practice mode is all there is.

Having more buttons to hit and more keybinds does not = more skill btw.

Each toon has at least 15 abilities to use + Profession specifics.

All about how you use it.

 

I don't think MMOs should have levels or stat gear at all, so you're not talking about me. And having more keybinds does in fact usually equal more skill.