Originally posted by Marcus-
I'm surprised at how much i am enjoying this game.

I didn't care for GW1, i don't (or didn't) like cash shops, but theres so much that keeps me busy, and im having a lot of fun doing it. Been waiting for a game like this for awhile and i'm glad i picked it up.

Agree with you. As altholic will have a lot to do and just hope game is fun also beyond lv. 11. :-) all my 8 alts are now between 7 and 11 only, but so far I'm having a blast.

My biggest disappointment however was Aion, very fun to certain level, as I remember around 20, ... then only free fall. History, never to return. But If I have to compare and if memory still servers me well ... gw2 is waaaay much better and complex and with a lot of candies.

Nearly I'm sorry will have to stop for few months at 25.9., but wow is still my 2nd best game after Swtor. 3rd is Rift, but Gw2 I must admit is closing fast if will continue as so far.

I'm going to be the one small voice to point out that all of you congratulating Anet are forgetting that you are also putting money into the pockets of NCSoft, possibly the company with the WORST record for killing off MMO games in the history of gaming.

Dungeon Runners, Auto Assault, Exteel, Tabula Rasa.

City of Heroes.

Do any of these ring a bell?

The instant this game starts to not look like the "giant killer" that NCsoft wants or doesn't fit into the South Korean/Asian market, you'd better start looking over your shoulders for the axe to fall. You might get 3-4 years of enjoyment out of this game. But don't get too attached to your characters and your guilds.

Because look at what has happened with the deplorable way that Paragon Studios and City of Heroes was treated. Kicked to the curb even though they were still profitable - just not profitable ENOUGH to offset the massive losses in sales from the failure of AION and other NCSoft titles.

And now NCSoft is going to be bringing Blade and Soul - another Asian style grindfest over to North America, where it too will fail because that model doesn't work here. It's been tried over and over again. And they haven't learned yet.

Don't take this as hatred for Anet or Guild Wars 2. You have a fantastic looking game there and Anet is being very innovative.

But I wouldn't trust NCsoft as far as I can throw them. And I won't give them my money.

I hope Anet has some way to escape from under the thumb of NCsoft. If they do, I'll gladly support them. But not until then.

Originally posted by logandwj

I'm going to be the one small voice to point out that all of you congratulating Anet are forgetting that you are also putting money into the pockets of NCSoft, possibly the company with the WORST record for killing off MMO games in the history of gaming.

Dungeon Runners, Auto Assault, Exteel, Tabula Rasa.

City of Heroes.

And now NCSoft is going to be bringing Blade and Soul - another Asian style grindfest over to North America, where it too will fail because that model doesn't work here. It's been tried over and over again. And they haven't learned yet.

Don't take this as hatred for Anet or Guild Wars 2. You have a fantastic looking game there and Anet is being very innovative.

But I wouldn't trust NCsoft as far as I can throw them. And I won't give them my money.

I hope Anet has some way to escape from under the thumb of NCsoft. If they do, I'll gladly support them. But not until then.

i miss dungeon runners - and i wish COX was not being  shutdown

I agree w you that Blade & Soul is likely to get the same reception TERA had

Originally posted by nsignific

SWTOR was a subscription based game. You're right, context IS everything.

Context certainly matters, but I think there are bigger factors than the subscription.

I think the biggest sales drivers for SWtOR were the Star Wars IP, BioWare label and large marketing budget. That is the formula for a large inital spike in sales. There wasn't much substance behind it so you end up with a large drop off. I sometimes wonder if this "pump and dump" stategy was deliberate given that the box and digital sales went to EA without Lucas Arts getting a cut.

GW2, on the other hand, seems focused on a quality long term game so I would expect steadier sales. With obscure IP, a relatively unknown label and limited marketing they've done quite well.

Originally posted by bbbmmmlll

Originally posted by nsignific

SWTOR was a subscription based game. You're right, context IS everything.

Context certainly matters, but I think there are bigger factors than the subscription.

I think the biggest sales drivers for SWtOR were the Star Wars IP, BioWare label and large marketing budget. That is the formula for a large inital spike in sales. There wasn't much substance behind it so you end up with a large drop off. I sometimes wonder if this "pump and dump" stategy was deliberate given that the box and digital sales went to EA without Lucas Arts getting a cut.

Given the ruthless nature of EA's business culture? I'd say it's 99.9% certain it was deliberate.

The Star Wars IP only counts for so much - basically initial sales. Bioware's reputation certainly helped initial pre-orders as well.

But then the fiasco with the botched, ruined ending of Mass Effect 3 became clear. And between that and DA2 and the other failings of SWTOR it became quickly clear that Bioware was not the company it once was. Among many gamers, Bioware is now considered to be nothing more than another studio EA has ruined.

So I think Mass Effect 3 was one of the major drivers in loss for SWTOR. People dropped their subs over time and didn't renew them. Quit out of disgust and because they were also Mass Effect players, or because they had done all the content in SWTOR and there wasn't anything left to do. Or a combination of those and other factors.

Basically, when you piss off enough of your fanbase, it WILL hurt your sales. I think EA and Bioware forgot that.

I think NCSoft is forgetting it too. There's a lot of initial sales of GW2. But I wonder if their history as "THE MMO Killer" will finally catch up to them now that they've killed off the beloved City of Heroes franchise solely to prop up quarterly market reports. (Notice that COH sunsets on Nov 30th, and the Next financial quarter starts on Dec 1st. Coincidence? I think not!)

I do hope Arenanet has an escape plan. I really do, because everything I've seen indicates they have crafted a wonderful game. And I wish them the best.  As soon as I hear that another company has bought Arenanet or they go independent, I'll gladly support them.

But sadly, I can't give them any of my money while any of it will go to NCSoft.

I can't speak for anyone else, but NCSoft pissed me off by killing off City of Heroes and possibly shattering the entire community of people I had come to love and care for.

So I'm taking my business elsewhere. It's as simple as that.

(If NCSoft changes their mind about City of Heroes or allows the IP and game to be sold to another company, I'll change my stance and I'll be able to support GW2 then. But I will always remain wary of NCsoft. And I don't think I will ever "invest' myself emotionally in any of the games they publish. They will simply be places where I play with my friends. Nothing more or less. And I will stay casual so that I can drop them as easily as they drop their customers.)

Originally posted by kadepsyson

Originally posted by fatboy21007
Look out WoW,  some1 is gaining steam XD

WoW has more subscribers than GW2 ever will

You're correct on that, WoW WILL have more subscribers than GW2, in fact GW2 will have 0 subscribers because its a buy-to-play MMO, no subscription involved! BWAAAHAAA - Who's getting screwed in the pocket book now? :P

Almost 15 years of MMOing under my belt. I have only been this excited 3 other times. EQ1 2 weeks in, I knew I had found something new and loved it. Few years later DAoC taught me something new, RvR was the only way to PvP. Few years later WoW delivered PvE in a way never done before and was a blast but was always missing something but none the less was the best of its time. Now ANet has brought the best of PvP and PvE into one package and as a hard core MMOer I am having a blast. This will be my home for many years I am sure. 2 Mill is only a drop in the bucket to come I am sure!!!

Originally posted by kadepsyson

Originally posted by Galadourn

Originally posted by kadepsyson

Originally posted by fatboy21007
Look out WoW,  some1 is gaining steam XD

WoW has more subscribers than GW2 ever will

define 'ever'....

Unless GW2 starts offering subscriptions, what I said will always be true.

Yeah. Since it's $60 for a box and no sub they are relevant in races for units sold, not "subscribers". This means they're mostly competing with things like Skyrim, Borderlands, Fallout, Diablo 3.

Good competition and technically we all win.

Originally posted by StanlyStanko

Originally posted by kadepsyson

Originally posted by Galadourn

Originally posted by kadepsyson

Originally posted by fatboy21007
Look out WoW,  some1 is gaining steam XD

WoW has more subscribers than GW2 ever will

define 'ever'....

Unless GW2 starts offering subscriptions, what I said will always be true.

Yeah. Since it's $60 for a box and no sub they are relevant in races for units sold, not "subscribers". This means they're mostly competing with things like Skyrim, Borderlands, Fallout, Diablo 3.

Good competition and technically we all win.

Umm..what? Business model has little to do with who they are competing. It's mostly the genre of game they are competing with.

they also say that they have at least 400k+ logged in at all times... 2 mill boxes, down peak of 1/4 of that given world wide time zones...? Not too shabby imo.... the game is amazing btw ;-)

Don't forget every FTP makes you play for the next expansion. Every game that comes out is more expensive than the following expansions besides "collector" editions.  LOTRO, EQ2, you name it, ftp has not been ftp - can't exist, they will find a way to pay for development.

The in-between though, this seems really nice!

Originally posted by maestro48239
yea... if NCSoft wants to impress me, they'll do something to Keep CoH alive, their decision to shut down a profitable game, because it doesnt meet up with their "new focus" burns me up

 And how exactly was CoH profitable? Few players and most of them were playing for free...all freemium games deserve a slow death for their trying to make a quick buck on a game that wasnt good enough to maintain paying customers. Either go F2P and create a shop with micro-transactions that actually make money...or die like the game should have.

I loved GW1, and it was not for everyone but those who enjoyed it really enjoyed it and now as far as GW2 this far into release I can say Anet has most definitely broadened their player base in a way that has not diluted any one part of the game so that EVERYONE can enjoy it and find fun and excitement in the game.  This, to me is what really shines.  They have made an incredibly polished, all round mmo, that mmo players and general gamers crave.

I know that the game will only get bigger and better as time goes on and the community grows.  It's a totaly breath of fresh air to play this game and experience its community.  Everyone is so releived to be part of a gaming community where people want to play together, want to help each other out, socialize, strategize, and in a way there is a healthy cooperative competition.

Arenanet really does deserve all great things said about their game and their efforts.  They have amazing talent and devotion to their games, and as I played Gw1 throughout the years I have really seen their love for what they do shine and it is what makes them successful.

nm

Originally posted by rdrakken

Originally posted by maestro48239
yea... if NCSoft wants to impress me, they'll do something to Keep CoH alive, their decision to shut down a profitable game, because it doesnt meet up with their "new focus" burns me up

 And how exactly was CoH profitable? Few players and most of them were playing for free...all freemium games deserve a slow death for their trying to make a quick buck on a game that wasnt good enough to maintain paying customers. Either go F2P and create a shop with micro-transactions that actually make money...or die like the game should have.

I could tell you how much new content we were getting, how happy the devs were with the results but it is better to let one of the members of Paragon Studios say it, don't you agree?

Andy Belford: "Freedom brought a new life to City of Heroes. The game was, and still is, alive and vibrant with more new players joining the fight every day. It's important to know that Freedom wasn't a failure. This really is a refocusing of direction from NCsoft and unfortunately, Paragon didn't fit into that vision. Collectively, we hold no ill will towards NCsoft and thank them for many years of support."

Source: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=295790

So... no... going F2 P was actually helping CoH... things were looking up so much that they were financing a second project, they had plans for story lines and more content that spawned for years still. The same day of the announcement, just 1 hour before it, they shared more sneak peeks of the upcoming issue 24.

City of Heroes was not a giant. But it was steady. And it's sales were in the black. Paragon Studios was caught completely blindsided by NCSoft's move to shut them down. There was literally NO WARNING.

There were no indications that the game was doing poorly at all. The devs were all wildly enthusiastic about the upcoming release of Issue 24. It was an update that addressed many many issues brought up by players over the years. I24 was adding major new content, new powersets. And there was a major tweak in the effectiveness of older powersets and archetypes such as the blaster. (For example, if I24 had gone live, you would have been able to build a true "gun-fu" blaster with Dual Pistols/Martial Melee powersets.)

NCSoft most likely killed City of Heroes because some of it's other games were hemorraging sales massively, such as AION. Also - GW2 being delayed and the massive costs in promoting it were hurting them. (Not blaming GW2 directly. That's not Arenanet's fault. That's mismanagement on NCsoft's end.)

COH was still profitable. It just wasn't profitable ENOUGH to suit NCSoft. And some executive likely was worried about his "golden parachute" and had to "take action" that would satisfy the stockholders.

Notice that COH shut off date is November 30th. And the new financial quarter starts on Dec 1st. Think that's a coincidence? I don't.

NCsoft as a primarily S.Korean company appears not to understand the Western Market and what works here. As they are shuttering a still-profitable Western themed MMO. They are planning to bring "Blade and Soul" over to western markets. Apparently not having learned the lesson that Asian Style "Grinders" do not do well here.

As I mentioned up-thread, I sincerely hope that Arenanet has some form of "escape clause" that would allow them to continue to keep GW2 alive as an independent studio in the increasingly likely scenario that NCSoft will pull completely out of the Western market within a couple of years. Otherwise they run the risk of becoming MMO kill #6 in NCsoft's score.