Originally posted by jayarte

 

I sometimes wonder what people expect from online games.  They seem to be seeking a kind of perfection which doesn't exist and, even it it did,  would be impossible to achieve when a game is catering to so many people, all with different ideas of what that perfection would be anyway.

Also, this. 

I have no idea what people actually expect from an MMO, and how realistic their expectations are. For a truly revolutionary MMO (or any game, for that matter) there need to be some drastic advancements in technology in general. At this stage, there is only so much ways a programmed/scripted AI can behave. Not to mention that the game needs to "react" and cater to literally hundreds of thousands of people at the same time. But in five, ten or even twenty years... that'll be a whole different story.

Originally posted by Saydien

With all due respect to the author but if this wasn't an official article I'd be tempted to consider it a troll one. I personally can't understand how anyone can actually claim there is no grind in GW2. For many people it is just as important to have some of the nicer looking stuff in the game as it is to have good stat equipment.

I claim it does not feel like a grind.

The entire argument is as dumb as FTP vs BTP. I know that this game is FTP, I can play it every month for free......but people with OCD say it is is BTP just to be trolls.

Originally posted by Saydien

 

---

Originally posted by loulaki
note that the Legendary Weapon is only for VISUAL, cause with the same stats there will be, already, items to use amd you wont need grind to get them..

 

so the grind is optional, it order to get in your hands something which is unique visual...
also learn to play! for example if you want to gain lvl in crafting by spamming the same recipie you will need a hell of grind, but if you try to create new recipies you will lvl-up just exploring your profession...
 

---

 

While I usually refrain from such comments I'll still go for it in reply to yours: Learn to read. I did write that the leveling process does NOT feel grindy. Thank you.

And I also clearly stated that this defense of "it's all just visual stuff!" for me simply does not count. I'm a social player, a roleplayer. For me the visual stuff counts even more than silly stats. So I am more than entitled to say: For me the getting what I would like to get in GW2 is extremely grindy and I can't believe that ArenaNet actually considers it viable game design to make us run the same instance 63 times with a duration of over 1h each for that stuff. If that is how they plan to implement their future endgame then I see a dark future for GW2 even as a casual game.

did you see i used the words "for example" ?

also there are tons of staf/items to do/hunt... these legendary are the "above all", the "prestige" what you expected to be something easy ?

I disagree. It did a good job of changing it up, but to me I can see the grind quite easily. I actually  cringe at finding a heart quest knowing I need to do it... it literally feels more like a grind then a  lot of the traditional quests in other games... not every heart but a good majority do. By compressing the objectives together it means that the quest takes that much longer... and a lot of them only have one part you want to do, many of the otjher components aren't worth the time and effort. 

Events are quite fun, its good to see they took notes from other games like rift and other games. Still, a lot of them have virtually no effect on the world asside from the event box and some can just be quite tedious. I do look for these over hearts... but they really aren't all that astonishing and fun that I feel like seeing that same one repeatedly over and over. Mostly hit and miss with the biggest draw is the reward they give and rarely actually having a blast with them.

Originally posted by Purutzil

I disagree. It did a good job of changing it up, but to me I can see the grind quite easily. I actually  cringe at finding a heart quest knowing I need to do it... it literally feels more like a grind then a  lot of the traditional quests in other games... not every heart but a good majority do. By compressing the objectives together it means that the quest takes that much longer... and a lot of them only have one part you want to do, many of the otjher components aren't worth the time and effort. 

 

Events are quite fun, its good to see they took notes from other games like rift and other games. Still, a lot of them have virtually no effect on the world asside from the event box and some can just be quite tedious. I do look for these over hearts... but they really aren't all that astonishing and fun that I feel like seeing that same one repeatedly over and over. Mostly hit and miss with the biggest draw is the reward they give and rarely actually having a blast with them.

So you completely miss the point, you do NOT need to do every heart .

You people just don't get it, this is so comical, LOL.

Originally posted by Loke666

Originally posted by Vannor

They havn't removed the grind at all. To get the most desired items in the game you have to XP grind (for 100 skill points for EACH item) and/or dungeon grind (50+ runs). They removed the need to grind to be competitive, they did not remove the grind. To get those desired items, the grind is worse than in most other MMOs.

Level grind is gone.. but that's only because they throw experience at you every chance they get. <-- Which I prefer over the old ways. However, it's not because the tasks are more stimulating, you wouldn't keep toasting at tables, collecting the eggs or killing things once the hearts or DE is finished, it's just as boring as any other grind. Lack of linking quest based storylines make almost every heart and every event kinda mundane as well, purposeless. Now we are grinding with even less reasons to grind.

I want the legendary and armor sets grind gone though, it's just too high.. it ruins the game for me and is the reason I'm not loggin in every day anymore.

You are wrong. But just because it actually is 200 skillpoints they cost, not 100.

But then the grind is more voluntary, I dont need Twilight for my warrior, I just want it. In Wow you need raidgear to continue to the next tier.

GW2 do have grind but not as much as most MMOs and you really can skip a lot of it unless you want to look as bad@ss as you can.

That was just a typo. This optional arguement doesn't fly with me though. Games are optional to start with. We volunteer to play games.

To experience everything in the game you have to grind. Optional or not, that's a fact. You don't grind and you get less out of the game. Forget the competitive arguement, I really don't care about that. I play to have fun, getting cool looking weapons and armor is fun. It's one of the most fun things about RPGs in the first place. To get some of the most fun things in GW2 we have to grind.

If some people can ignore grind because they are immersed then good for them, I really do envy them.. but it doesn't work that way for me.

/facepalm.

MMO's are all about the grind, in fact, one could say the grind is a core defining mechanic of a MMORPG, and learning how to overcome and master the grind is part of the gameplay experience.

Sure, MMORPGs try to mask it some, but in the end there has to be a grind somewhere, somehow, or you really have a totally different style of MMO, perhaps a MMO adventure game. (they never really had any sort of grind)

I can tell the OP never tried to survive a true grinder like Lineage 2, or else he'd have never used his example about killing 50 birds for feathers and laughably, giving up before doing so.

But it does show the mentality /preferences of the typical MMO gamer today and no surprise that developers try very hard to cater to them. (since they are in the clear majority)

Fear for the future, it looks grim.

Originally posted by Vannor

They havn't removed the grind at all. To get the most desired items in the game you 

.....

Have not read all postst ... but for sure game is big grind. Is fun for now, enjoying ... but is total grind. Masked by spending half hour rescuing pups or alike.

Boy was this a "Grind" just getting through this thread! ROLF

I'm off to "Grind" (ooops I mean play) AION. lol

Originally posted by avbeal6376

Boy was this a "Grind" just getting through this thread! ROLF

 

I'm off to "Grind" (ooops I mean play) AION. lol

Way to be second or third person to use that same joke.

Also, Aion is synonymous with grind.

TSW did it better in my oppinion. The actual number of X/Y quests while still around are at least fewer and further between than usual, instead you'll have objectives that'll take you around enemy territory for all kinds of reasons and as a result facing of against enemies. It really helps a ton on the grind feeling when killing ten monsters is a result of trying to reach a target rather than it actually being the target. It also leaves you free to either power through the main brunt of enemies or find the less guarded paths around without the game punishing you for it.

GW2 in comparison still has a larger ratio of grind quests than the other way around. Not to say they don't go by easily and quickly enough right now, they just aren't that interesting either.

Originally posted by Fadedbomb

Sorry but the grind was NOT removed whatsoever in GuildWars 2, and is even the worst i've seen than some done previously. You see this pretty well with an alt trying to level it.

Trying to go from 20 to 30 last night on my alt was like pulling teeth. I had already done all that content before on my main (I explored every low tier end area for each race), and it was a literal grind finding xp to level off.

 

Hearts,

Events (they aren't dynamic),

Scripted Boss Fights,

Scripted Champion Fights,

Hidden # of bear-butts to obtain by a Progress Bar,

 

 

Horribly grindy so far, but then again the game is so easy who cares right?

Agree completely.  GW2 is just as much of a grind as any other game out there, if not moreso.  It's pretty much the same kind of content, and the same kinds of systems, thus the same grind.

Granted, "grind" is often in the eyes of the beholder, but to me, this game's grind is just as bad as the grind in other games.

I can't help but laugh at all these "...just as grindy as anything else...." comments.   I usually won't post in such absolute terms, but...

There's a limited list of root cause reasons for it.   Most of it is willful ignorance and trolling of which both are a function of immaturity, to first order.  Semantic arguing, as well.

All RPGs will have what is widely accepted as "grinding" for different things, by the very nature of their systems.  If you can't see, or disagree that,  the variety of ways to achieve the same goal (eg. gaining xp) as being less "grindy" than say going 1-n in WoW, then you're likely beyond help and it's almost surely deliberate.

Similar != identical.  Yes, GW2 is an MMORPG and has similar structure to others - it's unavoidable.  Handwaving that this game is no different than any other previous MMO is patently false and laughable.  You can disagree with that, but if you do, you simply don't have the perspective, experience or intelligence to discern the glaring differences.  Or you're a troll.

I think what you are confusing is the difference between a grind and being an RPG.  I do agree with the author that guildwars two is not perfect.  Alot of the tasks end up being the same.  BUT the act of collecting items that take time and energy to improve your character is whan an RPG IS. Questing is a requirment in rpg, GW2 is no different in that fact only in the approach to problems.

What people really mean when they say they hate grinds is that some games (not all) have static quest content where everythign is a wrote pattern that you repeat and there is a reward.  Other games (GW2 included) make the content dynamic and fun (Opinion) and there by not grindy.  Even if you have to run a dungeon 50 times you can try different things each time, go down different paths explore different ways, gather instead.  Alot the explorable dungeons react differently depending on the order inwhich you do things.

The guy above me said it best

Butch808 writes:

Originally posted by Rohn

Originally posted by Fadedbomb

Sorry but the grind was NOT removed whatsoever in GuildWars 2, and is even the worst i've seen than some done previously. You see this pretty well with an alt trying to level it.

Trying to go from 20 to 30 last night on my alt was like pulling teeth. I had already done all that content before on my main (I explored every low tier end area for each race), and it was a literal grind finding xp to level off.

 

Hearts,

Events (they aren't dynamic),

Scripted Boss Fights,

Scripted Champion Fights,

Hidden # of bear-butts to obtain by a Progress Bar,

 

 

Horribly grindy so far, but then again the game is so easy who cares right?

 

Agree completely.  GW2 is just as much of a grind as any other game out there, if not moreso.  It's pretty much the same kind of content, and the same kinds of systems, thus the same grind.

Granted, "grind" is often in the eyes of the beholder, but to me, this game's grind is just as bad as the grind in other games.

 

Wait wait you guys are complaining because you already did something and then its a grind doing it again.  If you want to level an alt dont do that content on your main.  That is just stupidity and you should a ashamed of posting that on a forum.  If you read a great book and then read it again a year later yes you'll enjoy it but you wont even enjoy the best books if you read them today and then read it again tommorrow (Well somepeople do but not most).  Don't expect the impossible and you'll be happier.