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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » How big is the permadeath ultra hate is? PART 2

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73 posts found
  exdeathbr

Novice Member

Joined: 4/10/05
Posts: 120

 
OP  9/09/12 5:18:50 PM#1

Usually when talking about permadeath here, permadeath haters complain alot about permadeath, no matter what pemadeath system another user propose.

Some thing that usually happens in those threads, is some guys not only complaining about permadeath, but saying that no game like that should be ever made. Sometimes they even compare it with the guy that like permadeath system deleting his char (in a normal mmorpg game withouth permadeath) .

 

Because of that I decided to see how big this specific type of ultra hate against permadeath is, the one that say no games should be ever be developed, that permadeath is forcing a gamplay into other players, that say to players just delete their chars when they die.... NOT the guys that say they wouldnt just play it and hate the gamplay.

So I made a thread with a idea that was barely permadeath.  In the mmorpg idea players would start the game and after dying once they would go to another universe that is 100% similar (not 99.99% but 100%) but if you die you continue in the universe you are, the game would not have full drop, so you would be able to quickly suicide and go to other universe if you dont care about permadeath.  This idea is barely permadeath, if you hate it you can just die quickly and go other universe without doing some sort of gameplay.

This thread had a poll to vote and even with this idea being barely permadeath many of the permadeath ultra haters voted on banning this idea, 56%, 24.4% not being the style of permadeath haters I am talking about or aren't even permadeath haters, and 19.5% would not complain about it.

The idea was to see if even with this idea that was barely parmadeath people would complain saying it should not be developed and stuff like that. The poll proved that yes, they would complain.

 

Anyway  here I will try to make the poll again but with another "gameplay idea" that you can entirely avoid it, you dont even need to see it like in my original one, and ask to those ultra permadeath haters if they would hate it.

 

THE NEW IDEA:

The game would work in this way:

-The game has 2 servers (or more) one of those servers doenst have permadeath, another server is 100% (not 99.99% but 100%) like the other ones, but has permadeath, so if you lose your char in this permadeath server you will lose him.

-You can't change your char between servers. But can play in both servers if in each server you create a char.

PS:This is not like diablo 2 hardcore mode, in the permadeath server all players will be at permadeath mode and in the non permadeath server all players will play in a non permadeath way. Its just 2 servers that are 100% equal but one has permadeath and the other dont.

 

So, I will now make a question to those ultra permadeath haters that complain alot about it saying stuff like, "this is forcing users to play in your way, "just die and delete your char", "this will split userbase".....  And, so would not only not play the game or think permadeath is a super boring idea, but would even hate if one was developed.

 

THE POLL:

Question to those ultra permadeath haters I talk about: Would you allow this idea I talk in this thread

Yes, i would allow.
No, still hate it.
I am not one of those style of ultra permadeath haters you talk about.
(login to vote)
  Brambey

Novice Member

Joined: 10/21/04
Posts: 135

"The bullet that will kill me is not yet cast."

9/09/12 5:29:30 PM#2

TL;DR

  StonesDK

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/06/11
Posts: 1833

9/09/12 5:30:02 PM#3
Originally posted by exdeathbr

Usually when talking about permadeath here, permadeath haters complain alot about permadeath, no matter what pemadeath system another user propose.

 

Nobody here complains about permadeath when brought up. When people dislike a feature they will tell you they don't like it and most likely, avoid the game that has said feature. That's hardly the same as complaining. That's just avoiding something you dislike.

 

People only complain about things they have to deal with in one shape or another. Permadeath isn't one of them. It's one of those things you can easily avoid

  Kopogero

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/27/09
Posts: 616

9/09/12 5:50:21 PM#4

I'm one of the few who've had opportunity to play MMORPG's that made death harsh, like full loot (Ultima Online) or SWG (massive exp loss if you're jedi) and I loved those features. Why? Cuz owning players gives value and purpose. When I loot your corpse you loss gear, buffs, etc so you won't just respawn and rush again and again in the PvP action.

Permadeath exist in real life and certanly would work in MMORPG's as well. It makes risks far more risky and rewarding.

Starcraft aka wise/04. SWG/UO aka Wise HeRo, Light Jedi Knight pre-cu (Bria)

  Banquetto

Novice Member

Joined: 10/06/09
Posts: 1026

9/09/12 6:07:02 PM#5
Your new idea sounds identical to Diablo 2/3, and I don't recall any permadeath haters complaining about that. Although some "wannabe hardcores" asked for softer ideas (like HC characters becoming SC on death, instead of being lost).
  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19539

9/09/12 6:30:24 PM#6
Originally posted by Banquetto
Your new idea sounds identical to Diablo 2/3, and I don't recall any permadeath haters complaining about that. Although some "wannabe hardcores" asked for softer ideas (like HC characters becoming SC on death, instead of being lost).

This ^^^

I will never play PD .. but it is 100% optional in  D3 and i don't see a problem. More power to those who play hard core.

  exdeathbr

Novice Member

Joined: 4/10/05
Posts: 120

 
OP  9/09/12 7:21:09 PM#7
Originally posted by Kopogero
Too bad I never read your idea in your thread to answer, cuz I don't read wall of text. If you want to get decent poll votes, make a decent thread, not a book.

The ideas was to explain in detail, the idea of the thread to not have people voting in wrong things or asking the same stuff over and over like in the previous thread.

 

Originally posted by Starpower
Originally posted by exdeathbr

Usually when talking about permadeath here, permadeath haters complain alot about permadeath, no matter what pemadeath system another user propose.

 

Nobody here complains about permadeath when brought up. When people dislike a feature they will tell you they don't like it and most likely, avoid the game that has said feature. That's hardly the same as complaining. That's just avoiding something you dislike.

 

People only complain about things they have to deal with in one shape or another. Permadeath isn't one of them. It's one of those things you can easily avoid

Yes they complain, they do it in the threads all the time, they say stupid stuff like saying to permadeath likers just delete their chars after they die that permadeath would be forcing gameplay on other guys and forcing stuff on other guys is a bad thing.

Also using this logic that permadeath means forcing a gameplay into other players. Mmorpgs is also forcing people to play with other guys, if the gameplay of the mmorpg was offline instead of online they would be able to play alone, so mmorpg is also forcing stuff into players.

 

Originally posted by Banquetto
Your new idea sounds identical to Diablo 2/3, and I don't recall any permadeath haters complaining about that. Although some "wannabe hardcores" asked for softer ideas (like HC characters becoming SC on death, instead of being lost).

My new idea (the one I wrote in this thread first post) is not identical, in diablo 2 hardcore mode, both players hardcore or not play in the same server. Here there is one server to each gameplay and you can transfer your char from one server to another.

  exdeathbr

Novice Member

Joined: 4/10/05
Posts: 120

 
OP  9/30/12 12:11:38 PM#8
Wow, 80% voted on NO, still hate it.
  Presbytier

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 7/12/10
Posts: 426

9/30/12 12:15:53 PM#9
I have nothing against perma-death, and in fact think that MMOs should have servers to accomadate certain people groups like PvP, RP. PvE crowds or even Perma-Death. If you don't like it play onn a different server.

"Never pay more than 20 bucks for a computer game."-Guybrush Threepwood
"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me."-Hunter S. Thompson

  User Deleted
9/30/12 12:16:13 PM#10
Reply to title of post. VERY VERY VERY BIG. Idk what enjoyment people find in seeing hours and hours of sweat and blood put into a character only to see it all go away just because your focus was a little bit off due a hard day's work or some small bug. I mean hey if that's your thing cool. That stuff belongs in single player games. Keep it out of MMOs thanks. 
  Presbytier

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 7/12/10
Posts: 426

9/30/12 12:18:08 PM#11
Originally posted by exdeathbr
Originally posted by Kopogero
Too bad I never read your idea in your thread to answer, cuz I don't read wall of text. If you want to get decent poll votes, make a decent thread, not a book.

The ideas was to explain in detail, the idea of the thread to not have people voting in wrong things or asking the same stuff over and over like in the previous thread.

 

Originally posted by Starpower
Originally posted by exdeathbr

Usually when talking about permadeath here, permadeath haters complain alot about permadeath, no matter what pemadeath system another user propose.

 

Nobody here complains about permadeath when brought up. When people dislike a feature they will tell you they don't like it and most likely, avoid the game that has said feature. That's hardly the same as complaining. That's just avoiding something you dislike.

 

People only complain about things they have to deal with in one shape or another. Permadeath isn't one of them. It's one of those things you can easily avoid

Yes they complain, they do it in the threads all the time, they say stupid stuff like saying to permadeath likers just delete their chars after they die that permadeath would be forcing gameplay on other guys and forcing stuff on other guys is a bad thing.

Also using this logic that permadeath means forcing a gameplay into other players. Mmorpgs is also forcing people to play with other guys, if the gameplay of the mmorpg was offline instead of online they would be able to play alone, so mmorpg is also forcing stuff into players.

 

Originally posted by Banquetto
Your new idea sounds identical to Diablo 2/3, and I don't recall any permadeath haters complaining about that. Although some "wannabe hardcores" asked for softer ideas (like HC characters becoming SC on death, instead of being lost).

My new idea (the one I wrote in this thread first post) is not identical, in diablo 2 hardcore mode, both players hardcore or not play in the same server. Here there is one server to each gameplay and you can transfer your char from one server to another.

Those are also the same idiots who want PvP baned in all games even if they are on seperate servers.

"Never pay more than 20 bucks for a computer game."-Guybrush Threepwood
"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me."-Hunter S. Thompson

  exdeathbr

Novice Member

Joined: 4/10/05
Posts: 120

 
OP  9/30/12 1:07:27 PM#12
Originally posted by Presbytier

Those are also the same idiots who want PvP baned in all games even if they are on seperate servers.

Yes, as I said on original post  my thread is about that, not just about those mmorpg guys that hate ALOT and would NEVER, EVER play a mmorpg with permadeath. This thread is about the ones that want to ban permadeath, complain when someone say the word permadeath here in one of his mmorpgs ideas, complain  about it (as in "this should be banned")  in games they wouldnt play anyway....

So, the idea is to see if even 2 separated servers is a thing "too permadeath" to them and if even that idea, those guys would ban.

 

Originally posted by prpshrt
Reply to title of post. VERY VERY VERY BIG. Idk what enjoyment people find in seeing hours and hours of sweat and blood put into a character only to see it all go away just because your focus was a little bit off due a hard day's work or some small bug. I mean hey if that's your thing cool. That stuff belongs in single player games. Keep it out of MMOs thanks. 

If you know the game has permadeath and you will play it (so, you want to play the game), you already know you can lose all your stuff.  No one is talking about puting a permadeath on a server is not permadeath, so players will know they can lose their stuff before they start to play.

Here, those guys that put "hours of sweat and blood" into their chars will know from the start they can lose it. If they dont want it, they dont play or start in the server without permadeath.

THE THING IS: By the time some player agree to play in the permadeath server, this player also agree to lose his char at any moment.

 

  Oberholzer

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/25/06
Posts: 495

9/30/12 1:17:41 PM#13
I don't mind permadeath at all and there's no reason for some games not to have it. People that don't like it should just avoid those games or servers. I'm also not sure why you care about the people that hate it. I feel like you just want the haters to post just to try and convince them of something. It's like every other silly issue on these forums, some like it some don't.
  Darkmoth

Novice Member

Joined: 5/14/12
Posts: 175

9/30/12 1:18:48 PM#14

Diablo 2/3 Hardcore players are quite common, so I'm not sure why you think there's "hate" for the idea.

Lot of people have already chosen that playstyle.

  Stormakov

Novice Member

Joined: 3/23/05
Posts: 192

I miss DAoC

9/30/12 1:21:43 PM#15

I would love to see a triple "A" MMO developed that had amazing gameplay and graphics and everything you could ever desire - but had an enforced full loot/perma death rule to every server.

How many people would actually play a game that was everything they've ever asked for, dynamic and visceral combat, crazy indepth exploration/crafting/building,  expansive character and item progression and customization, etc etc - except for the fact of this one harsh penalty to dying. How many people would play the game of their dreams (like 100x better than anything currently on the market) if it meant having to endure permadeath?

So curious....

  exdeathbr

Novice Member

Joined: 4/10/05
Posts: 120

 
OP  9/30/12 1:23:19 PM#16
Originally posted by Oberholzer
I don't mind permadeath at all and there's no reason for some games not to have it. People that don't like it should just avoid those games or servers. I'm also not sure why you care about the people that hate it. I feel like you just want the haters to post just to try and convince them of something. It's like every other silly issue on these forums, some like it some don't.

Its not the haters, its not the guys that would never play it, but the ones that want to ban it.

Imagine those kids that not only hate justin bieber but really want to stop him from making music. But at least in the case of justin bieber his label pays to be on radio and in many cases you can't avoid him (and also the fact that his label pays to him be alot on the radio, remove other bands from radio, a thing that will never happens with permadeath 99% of mmorpgs dont have permadeath and mmorpgs will not turn into a permadeath feast if some start to do some games with it).

  Quirhid

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/28/05
Posts: 5520

Correcting wrongs on the Internet...

9/30/12 1:26:42 PM#17

I think you are building up an imaginary opposition to your point of view. People just don't care playing permadeath games. There's no hate.

I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  Darkmoth

Novice Member

Joined: 5/14/12
Posts: 175

9/30/12 1:27:30 PM#18
Originally posted by exdeathbr

Its not the haters, its not the guys that would never play it, but the ones that want to ban it.

How do you ban Permadeath? You mean like lobbying your Senator to make Diablo, Rogue and Dwarf Fortress illegal?

I agree, then. I'm 100% against Anti-Permadeath laws. Freedom! Let My People Die!

  Brixon

Novice Member

Joined: 7/01/04
Posts: 253

9/30/12 1:43:53 PM#19

Sure I don't see why you couldn't have a full loot premadeath server for every MMO. I doubt they would have a heavy load, but if that's what some people want then why not.

They could even send a big brute to your house an beat the snot out of you if you want even more realism.

  Halc4

Novice Member

Joined: 12/08/07
Posts: 2

9/30/12 2:00:18 PM#20

I find it kind of funny how you start off saying "Sometimes they even compare it with the guy that like permadeath system deleting his char (in a normal mmorpg game withouth permadeath) ." then you go on to make your new poll idea where the game is 100% the same, just you essentially are forced to delete your character on one server. So the only difference is that everyone else has to start over if they die too. To me, that's essentially the same thing. You only dislike the idea of deleting your own character on a 'normal' non-permadeath game because everybody else isn't forced into doing it too. Really this is no different than being on a permadeath server with a group of more aggressive players who are less prone to be cautious and more likely to attack you on sight.

I'm not totally against permadeath games existing, but I still voted no, because you're ignoring the effect having a permadeath server at all would have on the overall game design. Permadeath and non-permadeath gameplay really don't mix all that well in the long run, one has to suffer to make the other interesting. Or maybe you recognize this, and this is why you don't want to just delete your character on a game without permadeath.

All that aside, the people who don't want any permadeath game to be made ever realize that there's a finite number of resources in the world. There aren't an infinite number of game developers, so for every permadeath game made, essentially one less game of another style isn't made. This is why people often want only games(or movies, or TV shows) they like to be made and want all others to fail so they're less likely to make similar in the future, and more likely to make what said person enjoys. It's actually fairly rampant on these forums... And yeah, it's a rather self-centered view point, but it's rather logical in its own way.

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