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Originally posted by teakbois

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Originally posted by GeezerGamer  

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Originally posted by Vorthanion My problem with the game was the single path of progression.  Lack of multiple areas in the same level range, so that you could not only quest in different areas  within the same level range, but you could take a different path on an alternate character.

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  This is really no longer the case. Rift has developed several new leveling paths. You can go the traditional route and migrate from quest hub to quest hub. And Yes, the world is small with this regard, there are also options to level in PVP Warfronts. And Rift has also implemented Instant adventures. Where you get assigned to a public raid group and sent to a zone and are given random quests that you don't have to click on for anything. They are auto generated and they are auto completed as the group completes them. They go very fast. While this is still a work in progress, It's is not fully complete yet, There are a few gaps in the levels but you can use the mentor system to manually down level yourself when you want to or if you want to level with friends. You will level quickly, however if you do this from 1-50, it can get mind numbing, but it is great to break up the tasks and do a little zone quests, PVP leveling and IAs all in the mix.  

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The Instant Adventures dont really address the issue though.  People want a change of scenery.  IAs dont do that, you are still in the same zones.  And IAs are the only addition to the 1-49 game content wise, everything else is for 50+.  People (in general) dont want new things to do in the same zones, they want different zones.

 

You said 'several' new leveling paths.  And IAs are the only addition and even as you admitted they are a good break in between (I agree with this fully) but its not a new path, just more options in the same patch.

 

 

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You are right, I can't really argue, It's not several "new" paths. I really meant several in total.

Originally posted by teakbois

 People (in general) dont want new things to do in the same zones, they want different zones.

Generally speaking, I'm not (in general) - so to speak.  Nothing quite screams that a game is a linear game and likely a rush to some repetitive endgame than rushing from new zone to new zone while forgetting all about the zones behind you.  Nothing quite says that nothing you do matters, like not seeing that anything you do matters.

No doubt there are a substantial group of players out there that just want new zones - they'll consume it like Coneheads on meth - then complain they need MOAR!

Personally, as one of those not (in general) folks - I'd rather have additional higher level content take me back to previous zones so that I can see an actual change...have a feeling that something mattered.

But yeah, I can totally see your point (in general)....

Originally posted by VirusDancer

Originally posted by teakbois

 People (in general) dont want new things to do in the same zones, they want different zones.

Generally speaking, I'm not (in general) - so to speak.  Nothing quite screams that a game is a linear game and likely a rush to some repetitive endgame than rushing from new zone to new zone while forgetting all about the zones behind you.  Nothing quite says that nothing you do matters, like not seeing that anything you do matters.

No doubt there are a substantial group of players out there that just want new zones - they'll consume it like Coneheads on meth - then complain they need MOAR!

Personally, as one of those not (in general) folks - I'd rather have additional higher level content take me back to previous zones so that I can see an actual change...have a feeling that something mattered.

But yeah, I can totally see your point (in general)....

I think most people would be cool with this too, I certainly would.  But this whole train of thought is about levelling up, not max level.

It would be cool if Rift had mega-invasions, scaled down to whichever zone but would absolutely require a large amount of people not currently in the zone to converge on the zone.  In other words, just the zone's inhabitants wouldnt be enough.

But no game currently on the market has this sort of mechanic.  EQ2, GW2 and Rift have their mentoring systems, but its not remotely the same thing si what you are asking.  EQ1 probably came the closest with high level mobs in lower level zones you could go extract revenge on, and epic quests that frequently took you back to old zones.

I actually think what some games out there is worse - where you can just replay the same content at a different level.  That's just a grind.  I mean, literally, there are no if's, and's, or but's about that - it's a grind.  You can do the same quest/mission at level 10, 20, 30, 40, etc, etc, etc.

But no, there's not a game that I can think of that actually has hybrid zones - in the sense that I'm thinking.  Sure, some might have you go back to a mega central hub to pick up missions/quests to head out to some far off zone...but that's not even close.

The linear aspect of leveling is going to mean different things to different players, mind you.  Those focused on the end, do not really care and may even prefer being able to zip through the same content in a mindless blur...tada, done - yay!  The journey folks...heh...well, they're screwed.  Meh.

Ironically, the one game that is closest (in tech, not implementation) to what you are asking for is WoW.  Because WoW is the only game that when you level through a zone that the zone changes based on your actions.  Theoretically they could use this phasing to do what you are asking.

Of course there is the issue that YOU can see what you have done, but no one else can.  So its far from a perfect solution, but they are the closest if they choose to ever take that route

Originally posted by ShimpoGenmu

Originally posted by Krytycal
Not to mention their next project, Defiance, is looking good too.

with firefall and planetside 2 coming this game has no chance.

but i admit for a newbie company they did good with rift and are probably the fastest company out there making content

if they keep up like this their next mmorpg will be bomb

The first line in this makes me laugh. You do realize Rift has made it through Star Wars, TERA, TWS, and GW2 (MoP around the corner). What happened to Star Wars? Oh yeah, they made an awful game and it is going f2p already. TERA and TWS are dying very fast. GW2 is new and shiny, but already people are finding that there is a lack of things to do at 80. 

Don't sit here and say it has no chance when it has held a stable playerbase through the launch of 4 AAA games two of which were hyped enough to be the second coming. 

Originally posted by Waldoe

Originally posted by ShimpoGenmu

Originally posted by Krytycal
Not to mention their next project, Defiance, is looking good too.

with firefall and planetside 2 coming this game has no chance.

but i admit for a newbie company they did good with rift and are probably the fastest company out there making content

if they keep up like this their next mmorpg will be bomb

The first line in this makes me laugh. You do realize Rift has made it through Star Wars, TERA, TWS, and GW2 (MoP around the corner). What happened to Star Wars? Oh yeah, they made an awful game and it is going f2p already. TERA and TWS are dying very fast. GW2 is new and shiny, but already people are finding that there is a lack of things to do at 80. 

 

Don't sit here and say it has no chance when it has held a stable playerbase through the launch of 4 AAA games two of which were hyped enough to be the second coming. 

And the best part of those launches was...

Level 50 chat goes quiet and we aren't subjected to people bashing Rift saying...."The end is near. Rift is dead on 8/28."

The only thing that dies was the bullshit in the chat channels. 

Also, I can't tell you how many new players I ran into in Rift back in Feb, March bitching up a storm about TOR

So I say...Rift needs more AAA launches to come around.  Keep em commin.

Originally posted by m0lly

Originally posted by Vesavius

Me too. I think Trion are a quality dev.

It probably isn't fair to say it, but if the game had released in the state that the expack will finally put it in I would probably still be playing it.

true words, and yet someone said about macro based gamestyle, i dont like that either , its like made for lazy players ;)

Lazy? Said the guy who didn't take the time to try and write a sentence.

So slow down there with your judgements.  I love the macro system.  I get to create custom skill chains and free up my hotbar from excessive clutter that I find distracting.  Some of my characters (rogue) work great with macros and are fun that way.  My mage I only have a couple opener macros because the skills aren't fun to macro for me.  Anyway, I'm neither lazy or inept.

Anyway, TRION is a great studio.  I think they will be the eventual successor to the EQ style themepark where WoW and EQ2 players will migrate.  It looks great, has nice ambience and attention to detail.  The class design is awesome.

I'm done with raiding and subscriptions though, but if you like that then this is the game.

Originally posted by Waldoe

Originally posted by ShimpoGenmu

Originally posted by Krytycal
Not to mention their next project, Defiance, is looking good too.

with firefall and planetside 2 coming this game has no chance.

but i admit for a newbie company they did good with rift and are probably the fastest company out there making content

if they keep up like this their next mmorpg will be bomb

The first line in this makes me laugh. You do realize Rift has made it through Star Wars, TERA, TWS, and GW2 (MoP around the corner). What happened to Star Wars? Oh yeah, they made an awful game and it is going f2p already. TERA and TWS are dying very fast. GW2 is new and shiny, but already people are finding that there is a lack of things to do at 80. 

 

Don't sit here and say it has no chance when it has held a stable playerbase through the launch of 4 AAA games two of which were hyped enough to be the second coming. 

Two things wrong with this post:

1.  The person you quoted wasn't talking about Rift.  He was talking about 3 games in a different genre.  defiance, Firefall and PS2 are MMOFPS and the crossover between that genre and mmorpg is fairly minimal.

2.  Rift has not held a stable playerbase through 4 AAA games.  56 active NA servers down to 7 or 8.  That is not a sign of stability.  Rift might have a stable core of 100k or so players that have been there from day 1 and arent going anywhere, but the playerbase overall is certainly not stable.

Originally posted by GeezerGamer

And the best part of those launches was...

Level 50 chat goes quiet 

(had to do this for LOLs.  FWIW, the current server population certainly wasnt decimated by GW2. Nor was it unaffected and its certainly not thriving, but 11/13 could change that)

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Originally posted by teakbois
Rift doesnt do anything quietly, Trion is perhaps the loudest dev company around.  

Rift technically is a good game.  If you enjoy carrot on a stick game play, Rift is your game.

If you are more into the RPG aspect, then Rift still lags behind games like EQ2 and even WoW.  Im not sure dimensions will be enough to right this (they need a racial overhaul for one).  The large, static walls of text where most of the games inhabitants are generic are not an interesting way to tell a story.  And the whole Guardians and Defiant hate each other -> they can become mercenaries -> they can group together in arbitray other factions -> they are cool with each other now is just silly.

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I don't partake in carrot on a stick game mechanics, and yet I enjoy Rift. Go figure. I've never felt like I was grinding in this game. I enjoyed getting to 50. I spent a weekend running dungeons and have more than sufficient gear to do everything I enjoy in this game. SO I log on and jump into some fun gameplay. And at the end of the week, I usually end up with one or two upgraded gear slots without ever feeling the carrot on the stick.

I play on an RP server and the RPG aspect is alive and kicking.

Originally posted by truthhurts

Originally posted by Waldoe

Originally posted by ShimpoGenmu

Originally posted by Krytycal
Not to mention their next project, Defiance, is looking good too.

with firefall and planetside 2 coming this game has no chance.

but i admit for a newbie company they did good with rift and are probably the fastest company out there making content

if they keep up like this their next mmorpg will be bomb

The first line in this makes me laugh. You do realize Rift has made it through Star Wars, TERA, TWS, and GW2 (MoP around the corner). What happened to Star Wars? Oh yeah, they made an awful game and it is going f2p already. TERA and TWS are dying very fast. GW2 is new and shiny, but already people are finding that there is a lack of things to do at 80. 

 

Don't sit here and say it has no chance when it has held a stable playerbase through the launch of 4 AAA games two of which were hyped enough to be the second coming. 

Two things wrong with this post:

 

1.  The person you quoted wasn't talking about Rift.  He was talking about 3 games in a different genre.  defiance, Firefall and PS2 are MMOFPS and the crossover between that genre and mmorpg is fairly minimal.

 

2.  Rift has not held a stable playerbase through 4 AAA games.  56 active NA servers down to 7 or 8.  That is not a sign of stability.  Rift might have a stable core of 100k or so players that have been there from day 1 and arent going anywhere, but the playerbase overall is certainly not stable.

When peopel throw numbers, I have to ask for a source or a link please. 

I would like to know what references you used that determiend that a stable playerbase cant reside on 7 or 8 servers. It proves that there are far fewer people playing than at it's peak but saying it's unstable? I need to see where that comes from.

But more importanly, where is the 100K from?

Rift, like almost all other WoW clones, is dead in the water. It already had to merge servers. It's growing is done.

It cannot become the best themepark, as the best themeparks are in the past, EQ, DAoC...and modern day themeparks like GW2 have much MUCH more to offer. It does not stand on WoW for supports. A good game should stand on its own.

Rift was the last subscription based MMO I enjoyed.

Subscribed for 8 months total. I had a good time.

Since then  i've purchsed both SWTOR and TSW and hardly played both games for two weeks (combined) before uninstalling.

Much respect for Trion for making a better mmo than both Bioware and Funcom.

/Respect

Originally posted by truthhurts

Originally posted by Waldoe

Originally posted by ShimpoGenmu

Originally posted by Krytycal
Not to mention their next project, Defiance, is looking good too.

with firefall and planetside 2 coming this game has no chance.

but i admit for a newbie company they did good with rift and are probably the fastest company out there making content

if they keep up like this their next mmorpg will be bomb

The first line in this makes me laugh. You do realize Rift has made it through Star Wars, TERA, TWS, and GW2 (MoP around the corner). What happened to Star Wars? Oh yeah, they made an awful game and it is going f2p already. TERA and TWS are dying very fast. GW2 is new and shiny, but already people are finding that there is a lack of things to do at 80. 

 

Don't sit here and say it has no chance when it has held a stable playerbase through the launch of 4 AAA games two of which were hyped enough to be the second coming. 

Two things wrong with this post:

 

1.  The person you quoted wasn't talking about Rift.  He was talking about 3 games in a different genre.  defiance, Firefall and PS2 are MMOFPS and the crossover between that genre and mmorpg is fairly minimal.

 

2.  Rift has not held a stable playerbase through 4 AAA games.  56 active NA servers down to 7 or 8.  That is not a sign of stability.  Rift might have a stable core of 100k or so players that have been there from day 1 and arent going anywhere, but the playerbase overall is certainly not stable.

First off, this is a Rift forum and thread talk about Rift. So even if he was talking Defiance it is an awful point. PS2 and Firefall will launch long before Defiance and lose steam. 

Stable does not equal just needing a huge playerbase. Sure a decent playerbase is part, but having a dev team that listens and pumps out quality/quantity content is another huge part. Not to mention no noticable downsizing of the dev team.

I would love to hear where the 100k playerbase number came from though. Also servers have dropped like almost any game other than WoW after the launch rush, but servers also hold a higher amount of players per server than they did at launch.

Originally posted by TobiasGrey

Rift, like almost all other WoW clones, is dead in the water. It already had to merge servers. It's growing is done.

 

It cannot become the best themepark, as the best themeparks are in the past, EQ, DAoC...and modern day themeparks like GW2 have much MUCH more to offer. It does not stand on WoW for supports. A good game should stand on its own.

It's the best Themepark for teh people who have decided to subscribe to it.

What other qualifications does it need to be considered "The Best?"

And what does GW2 offer that is so much better than Rift?

I guess it was only amatter of time before someoen came in and said It cant  cuz.....GW2

Let's see what GW2 has to offer in a few months when all those people who are playing it wrong, can't seem to figure out how to play it right and leave for games lik MoP and Storm Legion, and Final Fantasy and many others.

Originally posted by Waldoe

Originally posted by truthhurts

Originally posted by Waldoe

Originally posted by ShimpoGenmu

Originally posted by Krytycal
Not to mention their next project, Defiance, is looking good too.

with firefall and planetside 2 coming this game has no chance.

but i admit for a newbie company they did good with rift and are probably the fastest company out there making content

if they keep up like this their next mmorpg will be bomb

The first line in this makes me laugh. You do realize Rift has made it through Star Wars, TERA, TWS, and GW2 (MoP around the corner). What happened to Star Wars? Oh yeah, they made an awful game and it is going f2p already. TERA and TWS are dying very fast. GW2 is new and shiny, but already people are finding that there is a lack of things to do at 80. 

 

Don't sit here and say it has no chance when it has held a stable playerbase through the launch of 4 AAA games two of which were hyped enough to be the second coming. 

Two things wrong with this post:

 

1.  The person you quoted wasn't talking about Rift.  He was talking about 3 games in a different genre.  defiance, Firefall and PS2 are MMOFPS and the crossover between that genre and mmorpg is fairly minimal.

 

2.  Rift has not held a stable playerbase through 4 AAA games.  56 active NA servers down to 7 or 8.  That is not a sign of stability.  Rift might have a stable core of 100k or so players that have been there from day 1 and arent going anywhere, but the playerbase overall is certainly not stable.

First off, this is a Rift forum and thread talk about Rift. So even if he was talking Defiance it is an awful point. PS2 and Firefall will launch long before Defiance and lose steam. 

 

Stable does not equal just needing a huge playerbase. Sure a decent playerbase is part, but having a dev team that listens and pumps out quality/quantity content is another huge part. Not to mention no noticable downsizing of the dev team.

 

I would love to hear where the 100k playerbase number came from though. Also servers have dropped like almost any game other than WoW after the launch rush, but servers also hold a higher amount of players per server than they did at launch.

I dont mean Rift only has 100k users.  I mean Rift has 100k users + the people that come around and try the game for a few months here and there (or even 6-12 months at a time), 100k + the people that probably wont be around in a year (but may be replaced by others).  Yeah, the 100k is just a guess with no basis behind it.  Given that people generally agreed the game had ~300k subscribers last fall its a safe estimation that its around 200k now, and Im basically saying half of its playerbase are lifers, which is actually a good thing.

A stable player base is one like EvE's, which remains more or less constant over time.  And EvE is the only game i can think of with a stable player base right now.  But Rift's playerbase has cleary declined over the course of the year, and hasnt stopped yet so therefore it is not stable.  But again, no game's playerbase is stable in this era, all games have shown significant decline over the past year and a half.

And as for the servers, we know they raised the cap by 200 or so.  If they raised it any more than that (which is unlikely because they havent added new real estate for these people to inhabit since then,) is irrelevant, because the servers arent filling up anyway.  They have consolidated a higher portion of their NA servers since launch than EQ2 has its entire lifetime.  Rift's retention is poor for a game that most people like and say positive things about it.  Only Vanguard has a higher percentage of people that say they like the game but didnt play it for long (TSW might be in this category too).