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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » LFD becoming a standard feature?

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67 posts found
  Goatgod76

Novice Member

Joined: 6/24/06
Posts: 1226

9/08/12 10:23:40 PM#21
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by maji

I agree with Oracle. While the tool is convenient, it also has many many drawbacks. First, it another step towards killing immersion. In one game, you meet with people in a town, and then venture out towards a dungeon. You walk through farmland, through thick forest. Some hermit might run along, tell you to not go any further, and run off. But you walk on. And there, hidden, you find a cave  through which you fight your way into the mountain depths past piles of bones and skeletons towards your goal.

In another game, you click a button, and "poof" are suddenly not on a quest to kill some lizards in a desert, but find yourself in some dungeon cave. Where it is? Why? Who the other people are? Who cares. It makes no sense. It kills the idea of having a world you are a part of. It cuts the coherent game into many tiny mini games.  It also kills communication. There is no need to talk to people anymore. Where in the past, you were chatting with people as you were on your way towards the dungeon, and noticed them to be nice, and maybe invite them to your guild, or join theirs, or form one together, that's all irrelevant today.

If I want some quick team action with some people I don't care about and without any story or setting or whatever, then I play a FPS.

Many value convenience of a fast, combat-centric adventure over being in a world. Being in a world is not that great anyway. I am in the real world and it is a drag to have to drive to work, have to drive to the grocery store. If there is a magic wand to teleport me there, i would jump at it.

I certainly do not want to walk 20 min before i can start my dungeon adventure, and certainly do NOT want to wait 20 min doing NOTHING for some other players to walk to the dungeon. Chatting for 20 min is poor substitution for gameplay. I am glad i do not have to suffer from force chat today.

So yeah, the game is becoming many mini-games (co-op dungeons, arena pvp, LFR raids ...) so what?

 

Dude please. Stop trying to play  MMORPG's and go to console gaming, were it seems you'd be more at home.

 

Again, they are (were) seperate genre's for a reason because one was meant for instant gratification (Console gaming incase you are unsure), and the other wasn't...ffs.

  MMOman101

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/05/08
Posts: 1201

9/08/12 10:31:15 PM#22
Originally posted by XAPGames
Originally posted by jpnz

As someone who spent 3 hours in Iron Forge to get a BRD group going on a weekly basis (anyone who played WoW vanilla probably experienced this. :P) , I for one love the LFD system.

 

I remember those all too clearly.  Spend 2 hours barking in chat trying to pull a group together.  By the time there was a full party, try to get two people to the meeting stone to do summons, make it inside the dungeon, wipe on the first pull and everyone quits.

 

What I'm playing now has fully automated grouping.  No party leader, no gear check.  Just select a dungeon and enter.  Wait a minute or two, the group is full (or close enough), and off we go.  Dungeon scales based on the size of the group, so running with 3 or 5 makes no difference.

Anyone know what what he is playing now?

  Wizardry

Elite Member

Joined: 8/27/04
Posts: 6661

Perhaps tomorrow will be better.

9/08/12 10:38:14 PM#23

I assume this means looking for Dungeon?

If it is ,i don't want that in my games.We need a REALISTIC feeling game world,that does not mean running around instances to get loot.

I rather have my game revolve around great skills/spells/abilities than any kind  of dungeon raiding.Instead of creating dungeons for loot,it should be done throughout the game,as part of the game,not as a side attraction.I also do not like a linear progression chain to get my loot,i like it to feel liek a ROLE PLAYING world,not a single player game.

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Samoan Diamond

  SuperXero89

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/16/09
Posts: 2609

9/08/12 10:59:15 PM#24
Originally posted by maji

I agree with Oracle. While the tool is convenient, it also has many many drawbacks. First, it another step towards killing immersion. In one game, you meet with people in a town, and then venture out towards a dungeon. You walk through farmland, through thick forest. Some hermit might run along, tell you to not go any further, and run off. But you walk on. And there, hidden, you find a cave  through which you fight your way into the mountain depths past piles of bones and skeletons towards your goal.

In another game, you click a button, and "poof" are suddenly not on a quest to kill some lizards in a desert, but find yourself in some dungeon cave. Where it is? Why? Who the other people are? Who cares. It makes no sense. It kills the idea of having a world you are a part of. It cuts the coherent game into many tiny mini games.  It also kills communication. There is no need to talk to people anymore. Where in the past, you were chatting with people as you were on your way towards the dungeon, and noticed them to be nice, and maybe invite them to your guild, or join theirs, or form one together, that's all irrelevant today.

If I want some quick team action with some people I don't care about and without any story or setting or whatever, then I play a FPS.

Lol, what game are you talking about?  Before dungeon finders and group matching was introduced, solo questing literally killed group content for 90% of the game.  You had no motivation to meet virtually anyone.  Group content as we once knew it in EverQuest, DAoC, and FFXI no longer exists, and the dungeon finder is just an innovative way to bring back some cooperative play into MMOs.  Sure, it has its downsides, but I'd rather participate in a totally nonsocial dungeon finder group than no group at all. 

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19455

 
OP  9/09/12 2:18:53 PM#25
Originally posted by Goatgod76
Originally posted by nariusseldon
 

Many value convenience of a fast, combat-centric adventure over being in a world. Being in a world is not that great anyway. I am in the real world and it is a drag to have to drive to work, have to drive to the grocery store. If there is a magic wand to teleport me there, i would jump at it.

I certainly do not want to walk 20 min before i can start my dungeon adventure, and certainly do NOT want to wait 20 min doing NOTHING for some other players to walk to the dungeon. Chatting for 20 min is poor substitution for gameplay. I am glad i do not have to suffer from force chat today.

So yeah, the game is becoming many mini-games (co-op dungeons, arena pvp, LFR raids ...) so what?

 

Dude please. Stop trying to play  MMORPG's and go to console gaming, were it seems you'd be more at home.

 

Again, they are (were) seperate genre's for a reason because one was meant for instant gratification (Console gaming incase you are unsure), and the other wasn't...ffs.

Why should i stop? MMOs are like what i describe now. MMOs are obviously meant for instant gratification now. Otherwise, how can i go into a MMO, click a button, and have a group in a few min?

Why should i reject MMOs when this style of gameplay is in many MMOs? Don't get me wrong .. i don't only play MMOs. D3, Torchlight 2, Borderland 2 ... are all fun and i will spend time to play. But is there a reason i don't play Mist of Panderia just because it is a MMO?

I don't shackle my entertainment just because of genre labels. I look at the gameplay itself.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19455

 
OP  9/09/12 2:25:45 PM#26
Originally posted by KaosProphet

But you don't mind spending 20 minutes in the dungeon grinding out swarms who's only point is to be a mini-hurdle before the boss encounter.

And that's fine, I guess.  Personally, I don't see the difference.  To me, the trip to the dungeon is as much a part of the adventure as whatever crap lies inside between the entrance and the 'real fight' at the end.  

How do you know that?

I enjoy fun combat, so it depends on if fighting trash is fun. In D3, fighting trash (or normal mob) is VERY fun. Furious, large groups, all sort of abilties .. so i don't mind. In WOW, not so much.

In fact, one of my fav dungeon is WOW is tier 9 raid dungeon with NO trash fight. And Blizz has substantially toned down trash leading up to bosses.

Lastly, of course there *is* a difference. Walking is different than fighting, don't you think? Even if it is not a "real" fight, it is 100x more enjoyable than walking.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19455

 
OP  9/09/12 2:28:05 PM#27
Originally posted by Oracle_Fefe

 

There are better ways to implement the feature that can work for both sides, however.

 

Infact, before LFG feature was in WoW (Or some time after it) There was a LFRaid feature that only involved posting that you wanted to create a Raid or join one. It wasn't used because it was so unnoticeable by the mass crowd. If such a feature was better implemented and shown much more then it would have made forming a PuG much simpler.

 

As for travelling to the place, I really enjoyed that for those impatient ones, a Warlock could create a "dark door" with I believe five other people in order to teleport players to them. It requires some to travel but not all if they are busy.

The current implementation is much better than the OLD one. In the old one, there is no matching. It is just a bulletin board, and players still have to work at it (by browsing, by selecting whom to talk to).

The new system solves this by doing the matching and teleport automatically. Sure Locks can do it, but a) you may not get a lock in the group, and b) you have to travel to him/her.

Walking to dungeon is clearly not a popular activity. Personally, i think they should ask you to walk once to unlock the dungeon (so you see the scenary, and they did that in the beginning of CATA), and then instant teleport after the first time.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19455

 
OP  9/09/12 2:31:51 PM#28
Originally posted by Johnie-Marz

The Looking for Dungeon feature, soved a big problem and then created a new one.

I played WoW for years and there were certain dungeons that I had never done. After the Dungeon Finder came out, I now hit every dungeon on my way up.

But you are playing with people on a different realm. People used to get reputations. If they were a ninja or a troll people wouldn't group with them after a while.

But when you are playing in a random dungeon finder group; you can be as big a troll as you want because you will never see those people again. You don't have to worry about your reputation on a specific realm.

 

So it is both good, because you see more content. And bad, it almost encourages antisocial behavior because there are no reprocussions.

Ninjaing is not a new problem. And it is fixed in the new LFR. The system roll your own loot (like D3) and it is no longer possible to ninja. That is a good fix. Plus, it goes both ways. You can ninja too.

Troll, or incompetent player is even easier to fix. Just hit the quit button. And you can always add someone you like to your friend list since that is cross realm now. In fact, it is BETTER than before because you are no longer restricted to play with people on your server.

  KaosProphet

Novice Member

Joined: 8/31/12
Posts: 384

9/09/12 3:12:18 PM#29
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by KaosProphet

But you don't mind spending 20 minutes in the dungeon grinding out swarms who's only point is to be a mini-hurdle before the boss encounter.

And that's fine, I guess.  Personally, I don't see the difference.  To me, the trip to the dungeon is as much a part of the adventure as whatever crap lies inside between the entrance and the 'real fight' at the end.  

How do you know that?

Extrapolation from others making claims to those you make.  They don't like walking, or any of the organic means of forming groups, but they do like the 'progressive raid' that has other time-sinks to artificially extend the content.

But perhaps this is the one area in which you differ from them.  

I enjoy fun combat, so it depends on if fighting trash is fun. In D3, fighting trash (or normal mob) is VERY fun. Furious, large groups, all sort of abilties .. so i don't mind. In WOW, not so much.

In fact, one of my fav dungeon is WOW is tier 9 raid dungeon with NO trash fight. And Blizz has substantially toned down trash leading up to bosses.

Lastly, of course there *is* a difference. Walking is different than fighting, don't you think?

If we're talking pointless fights, then I don't think it is that different.  Either is just a means of stretching out the content, so it's not just speed-ran in 5 minutes before queuing up again.  

Even if it is not a "real" fight, it is 100x more enjoyable than walking.

I'm guessing you're not much of a sight-seer in real life either.

  nilden

Novice Member

Joined: 4/26/05
Posts: 886

9/09/12 3:13:05 PM#30

Oh give it a rest. Sure spamming chat that your lfg is old hat but pressing a button to join a queue, teleport to the dungeon and faceroll it while no one in the group says a single word and you never see them again is just as useless. Hell they might as well just pop in a group of AI bots, it's not like you could tell the difference.

There is a middle ground between chat spamming and throw away groups.

Gonna have to go with something like City of Heroes on this, custom channels for grouping, self flagging for the type of group you wanted to join, personal notes, it was polite to ask people if they wanted to join and promoted socialization. Plus they had 8 person groups with sidekicking and mentoring so you could play with friends of any level.

How to post links. Check it Archeage
LoveMinecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer

  Mothanos

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/20/10
Posts: 1823

9/09/12 3:16:42 PM#31

LFD did alot of harm in mmo's, WoW made it cross realm, and the ninja's dint even had to shame for stealing the loot, as you would never see that person again.

I hated it, maybe if it was server only i would have liked it more, but man it instandly destroyed any server community and gave ninja's / griefers free cards to do it in any group....

Hope GW2 will not be infested with that crap.

http://speedtest.net/result/2112016336.png

  VirgoThree

Tipster

Joined: 12/09/03
Posts: 1222

FFXIV:ARR, Malboro Server, Scarlet Raven

9/09/12 3:25:47 PM#32
Originally posted by Goatgod76
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by maji

I agree with Oracle. While the tool is convenient, it also has many many drawbacks. First, it another step towards killing immersion. In one game, you meet with people in a town, and then venture out towards a dungeon. You walk through farmland, through thick forest. Some hermit might run along, tell you to not go any further, and run off. But you walk on. And there, hidden, you find a cave  through which you fight your way into the mountain depths past piles of bones and skeletons towards your goal.

In another game, you click a button, and "poof" are suddenly not on a quest to kill some lizards in a desert, but find yourself in some dungeon cave. Where it is? Why? Who the other people are? Who cares. It makes no sense. It kills the idea of having a world you are a part of. It cuts the coherent game into many tiny mini games.  It also kills communication. There is no need to talk to people anymore. Where in the past, you were chatting with people as you were on your way towards the dungeon, and noticed them to be nice, and maybe invite them to your guild, or join theirs, or form one together, that's all irrelevant today.

If I want some quick team action with some people I don't care about and without any story or setting or whatever, then I play a FPS.

Many value convenience of a fast, combat-centric adventure over being in a world. Being in a world is not that great anyway. I am in the real world and it is a drag to have to drive to work, have to drive to the grocery store. If there is a magic wand to teleport me there, i would jump at it.

I certainly do not want to walk 20 min before i can start my dungeon adventure, and certainly do NOT want to wait 20 min doing NOTHING for some other players to walk to the dungeon. Chatting for 20 min is poor substitution for gameplay. I am glad i do not have to suffer from force chat today.

So yeah, the game is becoming many mini-games (co-op dungeons, arena pvp, LFR raids ...) so what?

 

Dude please. Stop trying to play  MMORPG's and go to console gaming, were it seems you'd be more at home.

 

Again, they are (were) seperate genre's for a reason because one was meant for instant gratification (Console gaming incase you are unsure), and the other wasn't...ffs.

Wow I hate these kind of arguments, generally from PC Gaming Elitists. I'm mostly a PC gamer with about 85 percent of my gaming on PC, and the rest on Console. Console does not freaken mean instant gratification for pete's sake. Play something like Dragon's Dogma, Demon/Dark Souls, any plethora of JRPG, or hell even Red Dead Redemption (I remember a lot of travel in that game). 

The reverse is true as well, where I have many PC games that cater to both instant gratification mentality and long term progresion mentality. 

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Anyways to the topic of the OP, I wouldn't mind seeing LFD in more games. It does tend to destroy communities but I'm pretty much long past that now. Also when people say WoW was not the first to have it, I'm not sure those people understand what LFD is versus LFG tools.

LFD queues you to a dungeon of your choice, and automatically fills the group (tank/dps/healer) from multiple servers and teleports the entire group to the dungeon no matter where you are. The cross server component, one click auto queue, and instant teleport to dungeon are the primary components that set it apart from other LFG tools. I think you also recieve a bonus reward for completing it with the random pug.

  waynejr2

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/12/11
Posts: 3728

RIP City of Heroes!

9/09/12 3:36:16 PM#33
Originally posted by Karteli
Originally posted by nariusseldon

WOW pioneer it. Now many games have it ....

It looks like TSW will have it too.

http://www.thesecretworld.com/news/group_finder_comes_with_digging_deeper

Now i am more interested to give TSW a try .. may be after it turns F2P.

 

Blizzard doesn't really pioneer anything, they rip ideas from other games and integrat into their own.  They didn't invent LFD, they didn't invent achievements (Warhammer Online) .. they didn't invent AOE looting, now with MoP.  If you played other games you will see this.

 

Now Blizzard invents dynamic events in MoP .. Mmm Hmmmm.

 

Blizzard only exist because people won't change from WoW to another game, either by time invested or by their mental capacity to restrict change.  But WoW gets older and older every minute, and Blizzard isn't upgrading the core infrastructure to keep this game afloat.  WoW has fallen into the dead sea, where some people will still cling to it, but it no longer influences market shifts.  I mean after SWTOR I doubt there will be another WoW clone since SWTOR failed so hard on an already failing game (WoW).

Achievements were in City of Heroes before WAR.  City also had LFG.

  FrodoFragins

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/29/10
Posts: 2764

9/09/12 3:40:40 PM#34
Originally posted by William12
It should of been in every game at release after wow showed it works.  Games like rift, swtor have lost customers because it was not in the game fast enough.

Exactly.  I would have stayed with SWTOR longer if they had this much needed feature.  The excuse that WOW didn't have it at launch is BS.  It's expected these days.

  gravesworn

Novice Member

Joined: 6/15/12
Posts: 325

9/09/12 3:46:11 PM#35
I hate the mechanizm lol. I loved talking to people. Grouping up and making through to dungeons. The journey to moton core on raid nights was tough as shit. Or grouping up and running to shadowfang keep from southshore. Good times. Now its teleport here teleport there.
  Ginaz

Elite Member

Joined: 4/01/07
Posts: 1703

9/09/12 3:54:27 PM#36
Lets hope so because standing around for 2 hours looking for a group isn't fun.  In that time, in WoW at least, I could have already run 3 or 4 dungeons which, again, is much more fun than sitting with my thumb up my ass for 2 hours.

Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?

Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.

  ghostfaeries

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/26/08
Posts: 85

9/09/12 4:12:29 PM#37
Originally posted by Oracle_Fefe

The LFG feature is what killed my pleasure to be honest. It is why I havent played certain MMOs, why Ive stopped playing warcraft among other reasons..

 

There is so much potential that can be put into simply getting to a dungeon that is completely shrugged off with an easy alternative. It promotes rushing the same dungeon to repeat it again at times, as if people wouldn't care about anything but the loot, xp, or "armor currency".

I always preferred traveling to dungeons, especially when the zone itself contains pockets of PvP activity. I recall one of my favorite moments pre-WotLK was me and three other people (last didnt arrive yet) ended up meeting a 5 man horde party lookin ready to go in the dungeon too. We spotted each other and had a fun brawl that, even though ended with us losing they bowed and went bye.

lol i'm guessing you weren't on a pvp server, where at low level i recall getting ganked by level 70s trying to get to my dungeon and camped over and over. it got old and made me not want to do dungeons. the LFG feature was an amazing addition to the game. if tsw brings in this feature and becomes free to play, i will definitely give it a try.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19455

 
OP  9/09/12 4:14:16 PM#38
Originally posted by KaosProphet

I enjoy fun combat, so it depends on if fighting trash is fun. In D3, fighting trash (or normal mob) is VERY fun. Furious, large groups, all sort of abilties .. so i don't mind. In WOW, not so much.

In fact, one of my fav dungeon is WOW is tier 9 raid dungeon with NO trash fight. And Blizz has substantially toned down trash leading up to bosses.

Lastly, of course there *is* a difference. Walking is different than fighting, don't you think?

If we're talking pointless fights, then I don't think it is that different.  Either is just a means of stretching out the content, so it's not just speed-ran in 5 minutes before queuing up again.  

Fights are never pointless. The point, of course, is that you defeat something. I don't know how you can confuse between walking, and fighting mobs. The purpose is not at issue here. The point is that the activity is different. It is MUCH more active to fight ... than just walk. Now there are hard fights, and there are easy fights. Some of the trash fight is actually quite involved, and while not as challenging as boss fight, also cannot be won by just standing there.

I am, of couse, against winning fights by doing nothing.

Even if it is not a "real" fight, it is 100x more enjoyable than walking.

I'm guessing you're not much of a sight-seer in real life either.

Of course not. There is no scenary that is as interesting as a webpage. Even places like the Grand Canyon is probably only good for 5 min of entertainment. I would MUCH rather play a game.

Now it is not that I don't travel. For example, i just went wine-tasting at Napa couple of weeks ago. But the point is not to look at vineyard (which again, good for may be 5-10 min?) .. but to taste wine, discuss and learn about wine. That, of course, is 100x more interesting than look in at static scenary.

 

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19455

 
OP  9/09/12 4:15:13 PM#39
Originally posted by FrodoFragins
Originally posted by William12
It should of been in every game at release after wow showed it works.  Games like rift, swtor have lost customers because it was not in the game fast enough.

Exactly.  I would have stayed with SWTOR longer if they had this much needed feature.  The excuse that WOW didn't have it at launch is BS.  It's expected these days.

100% agreed. I probably won't even consider a game without it .. unless i only want to play solo.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19455

 
OP  9/09/12 4:18:43 PM#40
Originally posted by Mothanos

LFD did alot of harm in mmo's, WoW made it cross realm, and the ninja's dint even had to shame for stealing the loot, as you would never see that person again.

I hated it, maybe if it was server only i would have liked it more, but man it instandly destroyed any server community and gave ninja's / griefers free cards to do it in any group....

Hope GW2 will not be infested with that crap.

 

1) I don't give a damn about "server community". Online people i met play more than 1 game anyway. True community is the gaming community. I do NOT limit my friend/family to play on a single server. Cross realm is the way to go. You can add ANYONE to your friend list, you know.

2) Ninja is less of a problem because a) some games are taking the ability away (like LFR in WOW will have NO ninja .. since everyone rolls their own loot like D3), and b) if someone else can ninja, so can i. So it is a completely level playing field.

3) Griefers? Just hit the "quit" button. There is no point in playing with the group if you do not like them. I don't tolerate anyone i do not like. And there are plenty i do like, given there are MILLIONS out there.

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