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9/21/12 4:45:19 PM#121
Originally posted by bunnyhopper MMO is not the only kind of games out there ... and games are not the only entertainment there. It is hard to believe a person will only enjoy so narrow a slice of ALL possible entertainment. |
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9/21/12 4:47:57 PM#122
Originally posted by Aelious That is certainly NOT true. Keeping the SAME customer for a long time is obviously not the only viable business strategy. And it depends on the ROI of keeping them. You can also: - make quick money up front, and move on. - let customers leave, and focus on acquiring new ones ... if you acquire new customers quicker than losing them, you don't need to care how long they stay. |
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9/21/12 4:53:56 PM#123
Originally posted by nariusseldon Like a flat pyramid scheme. "i don't waste my time building relationship in games" - nariusseldon |
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9/21/12 5:17:48 PM#124
Longevity in an MMO is driven by community not by content. Community is what defines mmopgs and separates them from standalone games and games with multiplayer.
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Vesavius
 Old School
Joined: 3/08/04
Players come for the game, but they stay for the people- Most Devs have forgotten this. |
9/21/12 5:24:58 PM#125
Smed lies, we know this. I have trouble getting excited anything he says. Couldn't give a shit either way about who asked the question, it's just a question. But Smed, the guy giving the answer, lies.
Is he saying the right thing? Sure. But that's what Smed does. |
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9/21/12 5:37:35 PM#126
You know, that sounds like such a canned thing to say, but it's how I feel as well. It's not that SoE can't say the right thing or even do interesting experiements occasionally. It's that when they finally implement something it rarely feels anything like what they were talking about originally.
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9/21/12 6:40:09 PM#127
Originally posted by nariusseldon
There are many business strategies but I would have to disagree that your example is "viable" based upon the last year or two in this industry. MMOs have, to this point, been based upon customer retention because they are expected to grow and be maintained over time. If you don't believe me ask Bioware, EnMasse and Funcom if this is true (please note that I am not arguing an opinion on game quality).
From top to bottom, F2P/B2P/P2P, MMOs are successful (see profitable) based upon customer retention. Developers are accused at times of "wanting to make a quick buck" but I'm positive that their intent was the opposite. History has shown us that grab wouldn't get them anywhere but downsized and an excess of spare servers. Dear developers, In my humble and inexperienced opinion if I can get through all the content you spent the last 5+ years working on within 6 months you have not done your work justice. Please give me, and everyone else, some tools to create our own content from what you have made so I can stay in your world and appreciate it longer than three weeks before I say "meh". It's a shame and I'd rather not do that to something you put so much of yourself in to. |
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9/21/12 6:48:48 PM#128
I think this concept is a lot harder to pull off then some devs lead on. Especially in an MMORPG game. Now from what I have read and watched I think Neverwinter will really be our first look at if this is doable in a MMORPG and I for one am really excited to see it come out. I don't think this is a thing that MMO companies have not thought of thought wouldn't work if they could pull it off. More it has been how do we pull it off and most aren't willing to take the chance because they think it have too high of a risk of failure. Also what he is talking about doesn't really seem to be Sandbox but more a everchanging Themepark style. I think people often confuse a changing world with player environment interact as meaning sandbox. I don't think it does at all.
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9/21/12 6:53:43 PM#129
Originally posted by Smedley It took him long enough, but maybe he gets it now. |
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9/21/12 7:07:59 PM#130
Originally posted by gaugemew Not really. Devs could easily make games that required more grind to get to endgame, had more stuff midgame that you couldn't chew up so easily and have much longer lasting power and more time inbetween content, more hardcore world pvp so you couldn't run through levels and content so easily because you had other players to worry about spend hours hunting/being hunted before you could go back to content. Basically it's not impossible to stay ahead of the curve, what is impossible is making a stroll in the park MMO for casuals that stays ahead of the curve. Doesn't matter if its Tera, Wow, SWTOR, or GW2, I don't remember the last time I had to think about strategy to complete a quest outside of a dungeon or raid. Its dev own fault for making quickly chewed content. I'm not saying player environment content isn't a great idea but don't tell me devs couldn't stay ahead of the curve by making hard engaging content that makes players think and work together. |
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9/21/12 9:33:09 PM#131
I agree Strat and challenging content could be part of EQN since they say they are harkening back to EQLive. Whether that will happen who knows but I am certainly hoping so. I would settle for regions (since EQN will be seemless :)) that are filled with mobs/content only doable with groups. I also hope leveling is not fast but can still feel rewarding.
On the subject of sandbox content I think any game that allows you to build persistent structures in the gameworld a sandbox. I know this is a highly subjective term to some though and may vary from my point of view. The last part of the interview captures what I think people took to be honest sandbox type content. This is on top of his mention of player made bases from local materials in PS2. "We need to focus on game systems that are perpetual and give players a lot more control over what they can do rather than JUST putting yet another dragon in front of them with scripted content. We need to be doing both in order to be successful. And that's our plan." Dear developers, In my humble and inexperienced opinion if I can get through all the content you spent the last 5+ years working on within 6 months you have not done your work justice. Please give me, and everyone else, some tools to create our own content from what you have made so I can stay in your world and appreciate it longer than three weeks before I say "meh". It's a shame and I'd rather not do that to something you put so much of yourself in to. |
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9/22/12 1:18:04 AM#132
Originally posted by Aelious The devs expect that, the players expect that. For the investors and publishers the only expectation is ROI. Return on Investment. The problem is long term is risky and the people who put up the money are risk averse so the business plan for a game is geared towards a quick ROI, if the game has legs, that's just gravy. |
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9/22/12 1:27:32 AM#133
I don't hate smed but I don't trust him either. I will believe in the quality of SOE games when I see them. Planetside 2 is a great game as is. It is not a sandbox on the level of ArcheAge, SWG, or EVE. Just like PS1 getting 'outfit controlled bases', PS2 might never see player-constructed bases. Probably won't. What he is saying is correct, but SOE has not had the quality of designers and lead programmers to create such a game OR they have not had the willingness to invest in such a game so far. The closest they've come to this is SWG, but even that they released too early and did not market enough- Probably due to budget constraints. Thats when they lost Raph Koster, which was probably the best game designer SOE has ever had on staff. I do enjoy smeds insights and he posts pretty frequently (SOE would probably be better off if he posted less) which I like. He messed up on SWG and has since said so, which I like (he should have reverted the game and/or let the server code leak, however). He has made a lot of conjecture about what good games are but hasn't had the resources to make one, which I do not like. Play as your fav retro characters: cnd-online.net. My site: www.lysle.net. Blog: creatingaworld.blogspot.com. |
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9/22/12 3:08:11 AM#134
MMO’s were designed to generate profit over the long term in the early years. Solo players were pandered to so that the playerbase would expand and the ROI would be bigger. But those solo players brought there playstyle with them, which was to only play a game for a couple of months. MMO companies have responded by making the game really polished for launch as that has to be a success. The long term is now way too much of a risk to invest in, so end game for example gets little attention. This is the business model of solo player games imposed on multiplayer games. One of the reasons I dont think PS is a MMO is that you are in end game from day one. Well from the first day you are in the battle regions anyway. So there is a big incentive to get end game right for once. By not following the WoW MMO template PS may be a real success. |
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9/22/12 6:17:21 AM#135
A focus on quick ROI vs. long term customer retention may have become prevalent because of solo players but I think both developers and investors have seen it doesn't work.
The ironic part would be that long term growth is typically smiled upon as a good investment. Maybe with so many titles out there they don't figure people will stay anyway so they expected developers to crank out something for quick and easy consumption. I feel bad for them as that obviously this isn't a good strategy. Dear developers, In my humble and inexperienced opinion if I can get through all the content you spent the last 5+ years working on within 6 months you have not done your work justice. Please give me, and everyone else, some tools to create our own content from what you have made so I can stay in your world and appreciate it longer than three weeks before I say "meh". It's a shame and I'd rather not do that to something you put so much of yourself in to. |
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