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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Is there really an untapped market for sandbox MMOs? Smed offers an answer

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135 posts found
  Blossie

Novice Member

Joined: 7/02/12
Posts: 8

9/20/12 2:44:29 AM#101
Originally posted by Hrimnir
Originally posted by Burntvet
Originally posted by Hrimnir

You know what cracks me up SO much.  90% of the smed hatred is regurgitated bullshit from people who never even played SWG (or UO for that matter) but like to think they're hardcore sandboxer's super l33t mmo gamers.

I was there for the entire ride of SWG, pre-NGE, and if people hate the Smed, they have their reasons.

I was there for Smed's "The game isn't fun, give it 6 months" annoucement." And the "CU is here to stay" annoucement.

 

And many, many of the other big "FUs" SOE gave to their paying customers, until they became not paying un-customers.

Smed was at the head of company when all of that bad stuff was going on, and when a company does well and the customers are happy, the CEO gets the credit.

And when a company treats its customers poorly (and SOE clearly has over the years, they now have fewer paying subs across all their games than CCP has with just EvE), the CEO gets the blame.

SOE went from the most successful western company in the genre pre-WoW, to a joke in the industry. That was not an accident or from a single mistake.

And Smed was "the boss" for all of it.

 

Like many people, if I have contempt for Smed and how SOE has treated people, I am justified in doing so.

 

I do find it highly amusing that you felt such a strong need to respond to a post that clearly wasn't referring to you, as you were there.  Although, once again it wasnt SOE or Smed's fault what happened to SWG.  So, once again, your hatred is entirely misplaced.  But hey, whatever, irrational thought runs amock in internet forums so why bother trying to change it now.

You keep saying it wasnt SOE or smedley but that doesnt make it true .

  Aelious

Elite Member

Joined: 9/27/11
Posts: 2548

World > Quest Progression

9/20/12 3:44:15 AM#102
It's not as though Smed could come out and directly say it was LA's fault. I'm pretty sure they still have a contract with them (Star Wars: The Clone Wars) and it would be in bad form anyways.

He already apologized for NGE and not listening to the fans back in, what, '07?
  william0532

Novice Member

Joined: 7/16/11
Posts: 250

9/20/12 4:02:58 AM#103

I don't give a crap about swg, or what any gamer has done before(just when I decide a game developer can do no wrong, they make SWTOR and Mass Effect 3)

 

I'll try SOE's PS2, and whatever they have coming in the pipeline. Than I'll quit six months later with the rest of the fanbase if the game sucks, or I'll stay if its good.

 

Just glad to hear developers talking along these lines, gets my hopes up.

  Scot

Elite Member

Joined: 10/10/03
Posts: 5421

9/20/12 4:33:34 AM#104
Well Planetside is not a MMO. I have some hope it will be a good game just because of that! The set up will give us gameplay more like EVE. But knowing how the industry is going it may well start with a cash shop etc. Time will tell.
  Aelious

Elite Member

Joined: 9/27/11
Posts: 2548

World > Quest Progression

9/20/12 9:37:26 AM#105
Scot

Did you mean PS2 is not a fantasy RPG? It is certainly an MMO with how many people are playing, er fighting, together. I agree that having varying styles in quality MMOs is good in all respects.
  Loktofeit

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12406

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ArcheAge, and Combat Arms

 
OP  9/20/12 9:48:54 AM#106
Originally posted by rungard
[mod edit]

Where do you people get this stuff?

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20657

9/20/12 12:52:00 PM#107
Originally posted by rungard
[mod edit]

Why do you even care? It is not like they are the only game company out there. There are PLENTY of good games to play.

  User Deleted
9/20/12 1:05:58 PM#108
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by rungard
[mod edit]

Why do you even care? It is not like they are the only game company out there. There are PLENTY of good games to play.

In your opinion, in his and others, clearly not especially when speaking about the mmo space and sandboxes in particular.

  willvas

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/05/04
Posts: 148

9/20/12 1:24:28 PM#109
Originally posted by stratasaurus

No there is no untapped market for Sandbox games.  sometimes companies make the big mistake of listening too much to what players say they want.  Bioware totally fell into this trap.  Everyone said hey we don't want endgame grinding and progression like other MMOs have we want a MMO based around story.  Well they really got exactly what they asked for and then 3 months in huge drops in subs and game in spinning downwards.

 

Same thing with Sandbox games, everyone likes the CONCEPT of a sandbox game but most players really don't like the actual reality of playing a sandbox game.  Lets face it, there are not as many hardcore MMO players anymore, people are starting to prioritize and lots of the old MMO players are moving into a more casual role.  Sandbox games do not work for casual players, it is not that they are harder then themepark games it is just that it takes a lot more time to advance and do things.  Now you may not agree with themepark style but the truth is the only Sandbox game that could ever hold over 1M players would be a hybrid sandbox/themepark.

there is no such thing as a hybrid... sandbox games had quests all along... i dont understand why people keep misunderstanding that sandbox games dont ahve quests.  THEY ALWAYS HAD THEM...

And you are dead wrong about not being for casuals.. it is more for casuals then themepark.

see i will give a perfect example... in SWG(star wars galaxies) they had a profession called dancer... there were so many players that just played a dancer and danced in cantina's... all they did was dance and chat.  THEY LOVED IT.

 

you had otehrs where all they did was CRAFT.. because it was a PLAYER DRIVEN ECONOMY...

then you had just straight combatants. 

you also had treasure hunters.. the one searching for the good drops from big mobs to spots that possibly had some good items to that dropped that added INTO crafting process.

Then you had quests that SOE just didnt do well... but when they had the ACTS (there were 3 acts) till they stopped them... they were unbelievable.  I enjoyed them a lot.

see the old time games would have real live events... events that would affect the WORLD around you... THAT IS A SANDBOX

as opposted to a themepark.. start from one end.. get to the other end.. finished.  WOWs addition was... endgame dungeons do till your eyes bleed.

is there a market.. hell yes there is.  if it is done right.  NOT YOUR FFA sandboxes.. those are crap.

  Zekiah

Novice Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 2541

Hype (noun)
1. to trick; gull.
2. exaggerated publicity; hoopla.
3. swindle, deception, or trick.

9/20/12 1:25:07 PM#110
Originally posted by bunnyhopper
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by rungard
lets all hope they get their head out of their collective asses and make some good games. They havent had a hit since eq and thats gotta hurt.

Why do you even care? It is not like they are the only game company out there. There are PLENTY of good games to play.

In your opinion, in his and others, clearly not especially when speaking about the mmo space and sandboxes in particular.

Exactly.

I know this might be shocking to some people but there are plenty of gamers out there who think the current MMO market is seriously lacking quality products.

"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky

  MadnessRealm

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/02/09
Posts: 2717

Ignorance is Bliss.

9/20/12 2:03:10 PM#111

Smedley is pretty spot on quite a few points.I've seen a few members here saying that he "finally woke up", but rather, I think he knew it all along but just didn't have the opportunity to speak his views on such matters. Usually when he's approached to talk about games, it's to generate hype about SOE titles. With this interview, he gets to talk about his views in general, from the perspective of both John Smedley the gamer, and John Smedley CEO of SOE.

 Which leaves me wondering, if he wasn't CEO and rather was a Lead Developer/Producer, would he be able to really make something different by adressing the points he raised about MMORPGs of today, or would it fall into the "not so different" category? I'm of course not looking for an answer (before anyone jumps in and says he'll just make a WoW clone) because we'll probably never know, but it's an interesting question.

------
Your daily dose of common sense since 2009!

  Theocritus

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/15/08
Posts: 3627

9/20/12 2:07:55 PM#112
    SMed is a salesman at heart...Cant believe a word he says.....With all SOE games, I'll believe it when I see it.
  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20657

9/20/12 3:40:59 PM#113
Originally posted by bunnyhopper
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by rungard
lets all hope they get their head out of their collective asses and make some good games. They havent had a hit since eq and thats gotta hurt.

Why do you even care? It is not like they are the only game company out there. There are PLENTY of good games to play.

In your opinion, in his and others, clearly not especially when speaking about the mmo space and sandboxes in particular.

So? Sandbox is not the only entertainment out there.

 

  Aelious

Elite Member

Joined: 9/27/11
Posts: 2548

World > Quest Progression

9/20/12 4:23:38 PM#114
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by bunnyhopper
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by rungard
lets all hope they get their head out of their collective asses and make some good games. They havent had a hit since eq and thats gotta hurt.

Why do you even care? It is not like they are the only game company out there. There are PLENTY of good games to play.

In your opinion, in his and others, clearly not especially when speaking about the mmo space and sandboxes in particular.

So? Sandbox is not the only entertainment out there.

 

You're right it's not but a fantasy MMO with a lot of player-made/emergent/sandbox whatever features is needed right now.  Tailor made themeparks have gotten the thumbs down in the last year or so because there isn't anything left once the developed content is gone.  I think there is a large base of players out there that want a place they can stay and live a while.

  User Deleted
9/20/12 4:47:57 PM#115
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by bunnyhopper
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by rungard
lets all hope they get their head out of their collective asses and make some good games. They havent had a hit since eq and thats gotta hurt.

Why do you even care? It is not like they are the only game company out there. There are PLENTY of good games to play.

In your opinion, in his and others, clearly not especially when speaking about the mmo space and sandboxes in particular.

So? Sandbox is not the only entertainment out there.

 

The thread is about sandboxes.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20657

9/20/12 4:50:41 PM#116
Originally posted by bunnyhopper
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by bunnyhopper
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by rungard
lets all hope they get their head out of their collective asses and make some good games. They havent had a hit since eq and thats gotta hurt.

Why do you even care? It is not like they are the only game company out there. There are PLENTY of good games to play.

In your opinion, in his and others, clearly not especially when speaking about the mmo space and sandboxes in particular.

So? Sandbox is not the only entertainment out there.

 

The thread is about sandboxes.

And it is a question about sandbox .. that is .. why he don't play something ELSE other than sandbox.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20657

9/20/12 4:52:55 PM#117
Originally posted by Aelious
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by bunnyhopper
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by rungard
lets all hope they get their head out of their collective asses and make some good games. They havent had a hit since eq and thats gotta hurt.

Why do you even care? It is not like they are the only game company out there. There are PLENTY of good games to play.

In your opinion, in his and others, clearly not especially when speaking about the mmo space and sandboxes in particular.

So? Sandbox is not the only entertainment out there.

 

You're right it's not but a fantasy MMO with a lot of player-made/emergent/sandbox whatever features is needed right now.  Tailor made themeparks have gotten the thumbs down in the last year or so because there isn't anything left once the developed content is gone.  I think there is a large base of players out there that want a place they can stay and live a while.

"stay and live" .. no one lives in a game.

But i disgress. The point is .. if there is no good sandbox, why not go for some OTHER form of entertainment? I don't see people crying out for a lack of new locked room detective novels (which is a popular genre in the US in the 30-50s,but not any more), and demand someone writing some.

People usually move on ... since there are so many other entertainment options.

  User Deleted
9/20/12 5:02:20 PM#118
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by bunnyhopper
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by bunnyhopper
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by rungard
 

 

 

And it is a question about sandbox .. that is .. why he don't play something ELSE other than sandbox.

I'm going to take a massive stab in the dark here and guess because in mmos that's the kind of mmo he likes to play.

  Aelious

Elite Member

Joined: 9/27/11
Posts: 2548

World > Quest Progression

9/20/12 5:44:28 PM#119
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Aelious
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by bunnyhopper
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by rungard
lets all hope they get their head out of their collective asses and make some good games. They havent had a hit since eq and thats gotta hurt.

Why do you even care? It is not like they are the only game company out there. There are PLENTY of good games to play.

In your opinion, in his and others, clearly not especially when speaking about the mmo space and sandboxes in particular.

So? Sandbox is not the only entertainment out there.

 

You're right it's not but a fantasy MMO with a lot of player-made/emergent/sandbox whatever features is needed right now.  Tailor made themeparks have gotten the thumbs down in the last year or so because there isn't anything left once the developed content is gone.  I think there is a large base of players out there that want a place they can stay and live a while.

"stay and live" .. no one lives in a game.

But i disgress. The point is .. if there is no good sandbox, why not go for some OTHER form of entertainment? I don't see people crying out for a lack of new locked room detective novels (which is a popular genre in the US in the 30-50s,but not any more), and demand someone writing some.

People usually move on ... since there are so many other entertainment options.

 

Since you used the phrase "But I disgress" I'm going to assume you understood what I meant by "living" in a game.  I'm not sure which part of the discussion you're actually discussing but there is "sandbox" in the thread title above which is on a MMORPG website.  Was your involvment in this thread just to tell us not to complain?

 

People have been moving on from the games that have come out recently so it's in the best interest of companies to come up with a model that keeps them.  After a few iterations of "hey, this worked for WoW" developed games I hope SoE is going for something different, something better.  That was the point of this thread based on his quote.

  Scot

Elite Member

Joined: 10/10/03
Posts: 5421

9/21/12 4:05:53 AM#120

Locked room detective novels – bring them back and can we have a MMO based on them, thanks!

Ok seriously, the structure of PS is not like a typical MMO it is heavily weighted on the faction combat gameplay. So I would not call it a MMO, but for others I am sure they will think of it as a MMO. I do think PS could be a great game, following the normal MMO template has not exactly given us a string of hands down winners since WoW has it?

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