Originally posted by Malcanis

Originally posted by zethcarn
Again talk is cheap.  You can't trust Smed any further than you can throw him.

 

Nevertheless it is illuminating that he has been playing EVE for some years, and not just grinding missions but out here in 0.0 space. At the very least it means that he's been thoroughly exposed to a working model of an MMO experience other than Yet Another Orks And Elves Themepark.

And there are lots of things EVE does really well that would translate well into other games - the EVE economy, the PLEX system (the success of PLEX will surely have stirred Smedley's greedy black heart), tiered security status areas and so on - these could all translate quite well into any MMO genre.

He also plays WoW, and he likes that game quite a bit as well.  Unfortunately, his M.O. is to grab bits of this, and bits of that, and try to apply other games concepts into his own and it never works out well.   He speaks well and gushes that whatever they are working on is going to transform the genre, but his vision, organizational management, and ability to connect and communicate with the players falls vastly short of the desired target. 

To all you people putting any hope on Smed doing anything "Sandbox" with EQNext, this was from a thread at another site, from a poster who has a source/friend that is/was an employee at SOE. This poster's "inside information" about SOE had been accurate before. The thread was from last year...

http://www.mmofringe.com/forum/2-Section-8/17114-the-latest-on-SOE-and-Everquest-Next

Admirker444:

More changes coming from SOE.

Everquest Next had two pre-production builds proposed.

one build was extensive with a large budget of 100 million dollars. It was Everquest on steroids, thats its nickname around the water cooler.

the other build proposal is extremely casual. Its known around the cooler as everquest invades farmville. its budget is very small, 20 million dollars.

the farmville version was approved.

in addition, more cuts are coming within SOE. Several hundred subcontract workers have 6 month contracts expire december 31st. They will not be renewed

basically the team that was working on the Everquest on Steroids build lost the contest and is being let go

yes, it was kinda considered a contest. the better build got the money, the loser build employees got fired essentially. quite an incentive program by SOE.

If you are an Everquest fan, dont expect a true sequel. the farmville version is going to be designed for the young 19-24 facebook / hip / young san francisco up and coming executives type of people.

quite a bit of dissension over this target market as many dont believe they exist in enough numbers to support this project after launch. some thought is that by the time the game is launched, the economy will have rebounded so its foolish to design around a free to play model and a particular target market thats unproven and outside the mmo norm

So, what we have is more talk/hype from Smed/SOE, while their actions indicate something different, entirely.

Edit: and more from the same poster in a follow-up post:

Smed (he) thinks DCU failed because of the economy, not bad design. yes he is that delusional.

the free to play model he advocates has to do with the economy. and it was argued by others that the economy will pick up eventually. given a 4 yr development time frame, by the time an mmo is launched sub fees would be more viable again

I havent heard anything about planetside 2.

the info i got was centered around a staff meeting and a memo announcement about the build they were going with.

one interesting note...the more hardcore build team always felt the game was rigged (the contest). they were sure smed championed the casual cheap build and would never choose their vision for EQ Next. the money had already been allocated so essentially it was just busy work for them.

and thats how soe runs. they wasted millions on a pre-production design build they had zero intention of ever using.

I remember an article about how Google optimizes search results that applies here.

Big companies are REALLY, REALLY good at pushing toward local maxima. But they are total failures and moving back and saying, even if we reach the local maximum here, if we just shifted over this way we would be at nearly the same point now with a maximum twice as high to work towards. When Blizzard made WoW they found a higher local maximum to climb by moving far to the right.

Personally I think if they moved to the left much farther than original games on the sandbox scale, and farther along the z axis, the social graph, they would find a maxima that was even better. For some people. Eve went really left but they hit a wall of nicheness. Perhaps it was the setting, perhaps it was something else, we don't know.

But they didn't move along the 4th dimension. Cooperation. I think a game where all the players are on the same side could create the highest local maximum and I proposed such a system when I laid out my personal vision of an MMO. I work on RTS games, with a similar level of radical change now, mostly due to time and money constraints but I think if someone with the proper funds went for a single side, player wise, MMO they could get some serious money. And you could study some interesting social and ecnomic issues that are normally obscured by obsessive griefing.

Originally posted by Burntvet

To all you people putting any hope on Smed doing anything "Sandbox" with EQNext, this was from a thread at another site, from a poster who has a source/friend that is/was an employee at SOE. This poster's "inside information" about SOE had been accurate before. The thread was from last year...

 

Where is the source of proof of your source, not saying it aint true, just wondering that if some forum guy tells people he has a source/friend within the company how to proof that?

I ask this because I have seen some pretty accurate predictions about games even when people did not have inside source/friends, but where mainly lucky with their predictions.

So how can we be sure that it aint just geussing on his part, in short where is the proof/source that he truly knows someone at SOE.

And yeah I rather read speculations then the "I know a friend of a friend that has a friend who knows a friend that knows a friend that is working at" type of thing.

You know what cracks me up SO much.  90% of the smed hatred is regurgitated bullshit from people who never even played SWG (or UO for that matter) but like to think they're hardcore sandboxer's super l33t mmo gamers.

The best part is it was shown LONG ago that Lucasarts was the ones behind the NGE not Smed.  Yet still to this day people LOVE to act like Smed is some amalgamation of satan, adolf hitler, and pol pot.

Know how i know this?  At its height SWG had around 400k subs, at its height.  That was also 8 years ago. Considering the current MMO playerbase is at a rough estimate in the 15-20 million players range, thats less than 3% of the current mmo playerbase who (even assuming they were idiots and still thought it was smeds fault) have a justifiable actionable reason to hate smed.

CLEARLY more than 3% of forum posters on any MMO forums hate smed, so, conclusion is the majority of smed haters are in fact morons.

Originally posted by Loktofeit
BurntVet, we get it - you don't like Smed. The thing is that when presented with information that you don't want to hear, you resort to the ridiculous to support your position. Yes, saying "you're wrong because I read that a guy on a forum has a friend that told him..." is ridiculous.

Well, the poster had a memo and notes from a meeting, so that is about anything anyone can ask for. Or saw them. Or both.

And the poster has/had a history of accurate inside info from SOE, so those two things together are enough to give it a certain amount of credence, at least.

Plus, with how bad SOE has been doing financially, I have no trouble believing Smed took the cheaper route.

Originally posted by Reklaw

Originally posted by Burntvet

To all you people putting any hope on Smed doing anything "Sandbox" with EQNext, this was from a thread at another site, from a poster who has a source/friend that is/was an employee at SOE. This poster's "inside information" about SOE had been accurate before. The thread was from last year...

 

Where is the source of proof of your source, not saying it aint true, just wondering that if some forum guy tells people he has a source/friend within the company how to proof that?

I ask this because I have seen some pretty accurate predictions about games even when people did not have inside source/friends, but where mainly lucky with their predictions.

So how can we be sure that it aint just geussing on his part, in short where is the proof/source that he truly knows someone at SOE.

And yeah I rather read speculations then the "I know a friend of a friend that has a friend who knows a friend that knows a friend that is working at" type of thing.

 

The poster was very accurate with SOE info over the years, and I have no reason to doubt him based on his record.  ANd it has not just been once or twice.

That the guy does not want to out his source and get the guy fired is probably a good reason for not naming him.

At the end of the day, who the source actually is, is not important, the guy's info has been spot on for a while.

Originally posted by Aelious
Burntvet

That article came out a long time ago. It didn't have any backup then and it doesn't now. With a tight as the info has been on EQN I highly doubt such information as models and sales figures would come out. It does give SoE haters something to gnash at though which is why it got so much attention.

What sales figures?

The guy got info from the "pitch meeting" for what the projected costs of each project option were.

I have personally sat through a couple dozen different pitch meetings for different projects (not in the game industry) and projected costs are always part of it.

And again, with how terrible SOE has been doing financially, it would not surprise me in the least that Smed chose the much cheaper option, at the cost of making a much "slimmed down" versioin of an EQ game.

And again, the poster has been very accurate with SOE information over the years, and thus the source he cites has been on the money as well.

No reason to doubt he was right about this.

Originally posted by Hrimnir

You know what cracks me up SO much.  90% of the smed hatred is regurgitated bullshit from people who never even played SWG (or UO for that matter) but like to think they're hardcore sandboxer's super l33t mmo gamers.

I was there for the entire ride of SWG, pre-NGE, and if people hate the Smed, they have their reasons.

I was there for Smed's "The game isn't fun, give it 6 months" annoucement." And the "CU is here to stay" annoucement.

And many, many of the other big "FUs" SOE gave to their paying customers, until they became not paying un-customers.

Smed was at the head of company when all of that bad stuff was going on, and when a company does well and the customers are happy, the CEO gets the credit.

And when a company treats its customers poorly (and SOE clearly has over the years, they now have fewer paying subs across all their games than CCP has with just EvE), the CEO gets the blame.

SOE went from the most successful western company in the genre pre-WoW, to a joke in the industry. That was not an accident or from a single mistake.

And Smed was "the boss" for all of it.

Like many people, if I have contempt for Smed and how SOE has treated people, I am justified in doing so.

Originally posted by Burntvet

Originally posted by Hrimnir

You know what cracks me up SO much.  90% of the smed hatred is regurgitated bullshit from people who never even played SWG (or UO for that matter) but like to think they're hardcore sandboxer's super l33t mmo gamers.

I was there for the entire ride of SWG, pre-NGE, and if people hate the Smed, they have their reasons.

I was there for Smed's "The game isn't fun, give it 6 months" annoucement." And the "CU is here to stay" annoucement.

 

And many, many of the other big "FUs" SOE gave to their paying customers, until they became not paying un-customers.

Smed was at the head of company when all of that bad stuff was going on, and when a company does well and the customers are happy, the CEO gets the credit.

And when a company treats its customers poorly (and SOE clearly has over the years, they now have fewer paying subs across all their games than CCP has with just EvE), the CEO gets the blame.

SOE went from the most successful western company in the genre pre-WoW, to a joke in the industry. That was not an accident or from a single mistake.

And Smed was "the boss" for all of it.

 

Like many people, if I have contempt for Smed and how SOE has treated people, I am justified in doing so.

 

I do find it highly amusing that you felt such a strong need to respond to a post that clearly wasn't referring to you, as you were there.  Although, once again it wasnt SOE or Smed's fault what happened to SWG.  So, once again, your hatred is entirely misplaced.  But hey, whatever, irrational thought runs amock in internet forums so why bother trying to change it now.

Originally posted by Hrimnir

Originally posted by Burntvet

Originally posted by Hrimnir

You know what cracks me up SO much.  90% of the smed hatred is regurgitated bullshit from people who never even played SWG (or UO for that matter) but like to think they're hardcore sandboxer's super l33t mmo gamers.

I was there for the entire ride of SWG, pre-NGE, and if people hate the Smed, they have their reasons.

I was there for Smed's "The game isn't fun, give it 6 months" annoucement." And the "CU is here to stay" annoucement.

 

And many, many of the other big "FUs" SOE gave to their paying customers, until they became not paying un-customers.

Smed was at the head of company when all of that bad stuff was going on, and when a company does well and the customers are happy, the CEO gets the credit.

And when a company treats its customers poorly (and SOE clearly has over the years, they now have fewer paying subs across all their games than CCP has with just EvE), the CEO gets the blame.

SOE went from the most successful western company in the genre pre-WoW, to a joke in the industry. That was not an accident or from a single mistake.

And Smed was "the boss" for all of it.

 

Like many people, if I have contempt for Smed and how SOE has treated people, I am justified in doing so.

 

I do find it highly amusing that you felt such a strong need to respond to a post that clearly wasn't referring to you, as you were there.  Although, once again it wasnt SOE or Smed's fault what happened to SWG.  So, once again, your hatred is entirely misplaced.  But hey, whatever, irrational thought runs amock in internet forums so why bother trying to change it now.

That's called "reflection".

I loved SWG from 2003, loved it a little less in CU, and then dropped it with NGE.

As for Smedley, it's pretty easy for people to bash the guy, but from what I understand, Lucas Arts is more responsible for the NGE than him.

Lucas Arts is of that same stock of bean-counters (rather than experience builders) as EA. Those companies are the types that come along to actual developers with 'analytics' and think that they equate to a good game when implemented.

Sorry, but the majority of players will appeal to their own interests if you actually try to solicit them for feedback.

Guy controlling the show: "What do you want?"

Player in the world: (thinks for a second of what he's been dreaming of) "A Ferrari".

Guy controlling the show: Here you go

Player in the world: (drives around 5 days) Ok I want to put this on ebay this blows.

For SWG, replace Ferrari with Jedi. That's why that game died. When you take away whatever is prestigious and hard, and make everything easy, the interest wanes. There is nothing on this earth worth having that doesn't require hard work, because in general, the harder the effort, the more exclusive (and prestigious) the reward. Is there really any health benefit to having shredded abs at 5% bodyfat? NO, it's unhealthy. But you can temporarily get down there for picture time at an event, and that picture will stand out.

The players will say time and time again "I have a job, I don't have the time, I have kids". Yeah? Well guess what, you're playing in games where you're not only against people with no lives who will play 15 hours a day and only sleep, but now you have to deal with the reality of guilds who get their guild masters account played around the clock by multiple players to be the first on the server to do this or that.

What I'm saying is, a lot of people come to these games expecting the same equality the preach in the real world, but they know doesn't exist.

Responsible adults that are normal and healthy gamers just wouldn't care too much about the 'higher level' in a game. There is always a higher level they can make, another carrot for you to chase. If you really want to enjoy games as part of your leisure, you need to say "ok, I play at this level, this bracket where people invest this much time, and I want to try to dominate that bracket".

But, even if you do, you get to the next bracket and get wiped out.

And if you can't deal with that, find another hobby where those other advantageous factors aren't in play. Like... an FPS game (well, one without aimbots).

Originally posted by Burntvet

The poster was very accurate with SOE info over the years, and I have no reason to doubt him based on his record.  ANd it has not just been once or twice.

That the guy does not want to out his source and get the guy fired is probably a good reason for not naming him.

At the end of the day, who the source actually is, is not important, the guy's info has been spot on for a while.

The humor here is that you feel the guy leaking info is honest enough to leak full, correct or even real info to a bunch of people he doesn't know. Why?

Because Mystery Source is telling you what you want to hear, BitterVet, and Smed - no matter what he says or does - will always be the evil, destroyer of virtual worlds in your mind. The former obviously doesn't have loyalty to the company and the latter has a vested interest in the company.

Question: If you found out your Mystery Source was some other industry professional you have disdain for, would you still hold his rumors as gospel truth or would you dismiss it as lies?

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by Burntvet

The poster was very accurate with SOE info over the years, and I have no reason to doubt him based on his record.  ANd it has not just been once or twice.

That the guy does not want to out his source and get the guy fired is probably a good reason for not naming him.

At the end of the day, who the source actually is, is not important, the guy's info has been spot on for a while.

The humor here is that you feel the guy leaking info is honest enough to leak full, correct or even real info to a bunch of people he doesn't know. Why?

Because Mystery Source is telling you what you want to hear, BitterVet, and Smed - no matter what he says or does - will always be the evil, destroyer of virtual worlds in your mind. The former obviously doesn't have loyalty to the company and the latter has a vested interest in the company.

Question: If you found out your Mystery Source was some other industry professional you have disdain for, would you still hold his rumors as gospel truth or would you dismiss it as lies?

You seem to be a little too invested in arguing with anyone who has anything bad to say about Smed... interesting.

All I did was repost some info from a thread on another site, talking about EQNext and that it was not going down the raod some people in this thread think it is, and it rebutts some of the things Smed said or implied in the interview.

Want to talk about who the source is and all that stuff? Fine. Take it up with the original poster on the other site, it is that guy's friend.

All I know is that that other poster has posted reliable info in the past about SOE and cited that same friend.

If that is not good enough for you, too bad.

As for Smed, he is responsible for doing plenty of things his now former customers are unhappy with. Not what he said, what he did. And all the empty apologies don't change any of that for crap.