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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Is there really an untapped market for sandbox MMOs? Smed offers an answer

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135 posts found
  teakbois

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/06/06
Posts: 2190

9/07/12 4:39:50 PM#41
Originally posted by Tibernicus

They've never pushed the genre, never tried anything new

I wish this was the case as I am sick of people complaining that XXX MMORPG has no group finder feature.

 

That said, no MMO company has done so little with so much revenue, so i will agree with that.  EQ and EQ2 have pushed out so much content over the years, yet Blizzard thinks its okay for one expansion every two years.

  Zillen

Novice Member

Joined: 9/15/10
Posts: 144

I am free of all prejudices. I hate everyone equally.
(W.C.Fields)

9/07/12 4:41:26 PM#42

I'm really sick of the whole "There's a massive fanbase for X", or "Y would be a WoW-killer if it just had a chance".

There is no massive conspiracy waiting in the MMO playerbase.

There are no "sleeper-agent fans" waiting to convert once the X or Y is unleashed on the world.

There may be a growing portion of players who prefer sandbox ELEMENTS in games. But players have, and always will want SOME form of direction or given purpose in their games. It's why tutorials exist, its why LEVELLING exists, its why experience and crafting skills exist, and its why WoW is number one in the market even with millions lost.

There is a clear bias towards some form of given direction in MMO gaming. Just setting your average player on a wide open sandbox world with no instructions and a million things to do and see would not appeal to them. To the experienced sandbox players, yes, but not to the casuals, not to the seasoned WoW-style game veterans.

There is no untapped gold mine of players. But there is growing diversity. Praise that, instead of hoping for a game that will convert everyone to your beliefs.


I'm really sick of the whole "There's a massive fanbase for X", or "Y would be a WoW-killer if it just had a chance".

There is no massive conspiracy waiting in the MMO playerbase.

There are no "sleeper-agent fans" waiting to convert once the X or Y is unleashed on the world.

  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 19094

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

9/07/12 5:02:02 PM#43
Originally posted by Quirhid
Originally posted by Tibernicus
Originally posted by VikingGamer
Originally posted by dave6660

Many players will not be able look past the fact you're talking about SOE and The Mittani.  Two of our favorite super villians.

The difference is that Smedley is...

Drat. Sorry, dont want to get banned.

Lets put it this way. Both Smedley and The Mittani have a history of wreaking havok on their choosen MMOs

Super villains? SoE may not be great, but the super villains of the genre are either Blizzard or EA. No other company has had as negative an impact on the genre as those two companies.


Why Blizzard? EA is the spawn of Satan, but whats wrong with Blizzard?

Also, Mittani is a scum - a human turd. Despise him? -Yes. Feel sorry for him? -Yes. Hate him? -No.

LOL, in this modern society people like the Mittani are the subject of intense facination and scrutiny, the plethoria of trash reality shows, cable tv shows about drug addicts/dealers/serial killers, pseudo celebrities and the like prove that.

 

Arrogant, Dismissive, Elitist, you speak as if these are bad things?
Kyleran - Bitter Vet ™ since 2006
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  Nikkita

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/25/10
Posts: 830

9/07/12 5:07:53 PM#44
Originally posted by Tibernicus
Originally posted by Nikkita
Maybe not a pure sandbox but a hybrid of themepark and sandbox features would do great if done right. In the end what matters is that gameplay is fun and interesting. Sandbox or no sandbox.

It is simple business. The themepark market is oversaturated with filth, too many games.

The hardcore MMORPG market, a market of millions, the millions that launched this genre... is totally untapped. A game hasn't been targeted at the core market for a very long time. If anyone with even a slight budget were to make a game aimed at these folks, it'd get massive amounts of hype and cash regardless of how it turns out (that's what happened with Vanguard).

I'm surprised it took someone this long to wake up. Thankfully the death of SWTOR seems to have been the wakeup call that I was hoping it'd be.

I really doubt that there are so many hardcore MMO players that they would constitue a market of untapped millions. If it was true a lot of sandbox MMOS wouldn't be fighting for survival. Some of those very well made too. For example Darkfall and Ryzom.

Why didn't all the millions support these MMOS? we even had a very nice hybrid called Fallen Earth, even that sandpark MMO struggled to stay alive and now just doing 'good enough' with F2P model.


Bite Me

  Tibernicus

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/15/12
Posts: 437

9/07/12 5:21:14 PM#45
Originally posted by Nikkita
Originally posted by Tibernicus
Originally posted by Nikkita
Maybe not a pure sandbox but a hybrid of themepark and sandbox features would do great if done right. In the end what matters is that gameplay is fun and interesting. Sandbox or no sandbox.

It is simple business. The themepark market is oversaturated with filth, too many games.

The hardcore MMORPG market, a market of millions, the millions that launched this genre... is totally untapped. A game hasn't been targeted at the core market for a very long time. If anyone with even a slight budget were to make a game aimed at these folks, it'd get massive amounts of hype and cash regardless of how it turns out (that's what happened with Vanguard).

I'm surprised it took someone this long to wake up. Thankfully the death of SWTOR seems to have been the wakeup call that I was hoping it'd be.

I really doubt that there are so many hardcore MMO players that they would constitue a market of untapped millions. If it was true a lot of sandbox MMOS wouldn't be fighting for survival. Some of those very well made too. For example Darkfall and Ryzom.

Why didn't all the millions support these MMOS? we even had a very nice hybrid called Fallen Earth, even that sandpark MMO struggled to stay alive and now just doing 'good enough' with F2P model.

Darkfall is FFA PVP. That's reason enough for it to be an uphill battle. But I do expect it to have a much larger player base once 2.0 releases.

Ryzom never got much publicity and went through development hell, getting wiped and redone several times. But mainly the no publicity thing.

Fallen Earth, I'm not sure what happened there. I only played it briefly, it wasn't totally my style of game/setting, but I could tell it was something special. One of the best post WoW MMOs to be sure. But there isn't a huge audience for post apoc games I guess.

 

But here's the thing, all 3 of these games were made by underfunded indie dev studios with little to no experience. 

Even in the MMO golden age, the people making those early MMOs had TONS of experience. Ultima Online had 8 Ultima games to work off of. Dark Age of Camelot had the backbone of about 4 different MUDS that Mythic had developed. EverQuest was backed by MUDs as well.

Now imagine if a bigger more experienced studio made a game for the hardcore market. It wouldn't have to have a budget nearly as big as a themepark MMO because a) most of the content is player generated and b) the market is UNCONTESTED. You're not struggling to outpace all the other games already in the genre, because there are none. Vanguard is the closest game to trying this approach, but it was mismanaged on 3 different levels. First, by Microsoft, who dropped it after they got a new CEO that didn't want to deal with MMOs, by Sigil itself because the man in charge was a better designer than he was a company manager, and struggled to keep all the massive talent and egos behind the game in line, and by SoE who forced the game out 8 months early, within the same week as Burning Crusade.

And despite all this, Vanguard sold insanely well for the first few weeks and had hundreds of thousands of people clamoring about it.

 

If someone were to make a hardcore MMO like Vanguard, on a realistic budget, they'd have a clear path to the millions of MMO gamers who haven't had anywhere to go since the collapse of the MMO genre in 2004.

And yes, millions. There were dozens and dozens of MMOs before WoW came out. 300k in DAoC, 500k in EQ, 400k in SWG, 250k in UO, 200k in AC. Many of those folks are still here, waiting for a game that hearkens back to what they liked about the genre. And there's plenty of new blood looking for something a bit different. You see a lot of converts in Vanguard who only ever played WoW but thought it was too easy. You see in in games like Dark Souls, where Skyrim and CoD fans try it, an insanely hard oldschool game, and fall in love with it.

 

What makes better business sense, sinking 300 million into a game model that is proven to not work, EVER (themepark/WoW clone) or make a much smaller risk into a genre that might net insane profits?

  Larsa

Novice Member

Joined: 2/14/04
Posts: 992

9/07/12 5:22:00 PM#46


Originally posted by Loktofeit
... At some point as an industry we need to realize that we have already lost the race to outpace players in making content. I personally thought SWTOR was a great game. I loved Diablo III. The problem is you get to the endgame and as game makers it's not just expensive. it's impossible to stay ahead of the curve. ...

 

Not sure whether he thinks there's an untapped market - but I think he says it all in the quoted part: it's just too expensive, it's impossible qua time and budget to create scripted content as fast as themepark players consume it. Throwing millions of dollars at the problem doesn't solve anything.

And that's his problem from a business point-of-view, themeparks getting ever more expensive to produce (thousands of cutscenes, voice actors, CGI trailers and scripted dungeons don't come for free), thus the games need a large playerbase, and need the playerbase for more than a month or two to be profitable.

Cue in games that cost less to produce and have more longevity. Fine for me, suits my tastes well.

I maintain this List of Sandbox MMORPGs. Please post or send PM for corrections and suggestions.

  darker70

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/21/08
Posts: 821

A child of five would understand this. Send someone to fetch a child of five.
Groucho Marx

9/07/12 5:26:33 PM#47
Originally posted by Nikkita
Originally posted by Tibernicus
Originally posted by Nikkita
Maybe not a pure sandbox but a hybrid of themepark and sandbox features would do great if done right. In the end what matters is that gameplay is fun and interesting. Sandbox or no sandbox.

It is simple business. The themepark market is oversaturated with filth, too many games.

The hardcore MMORPG market, a market of millions, the millions that launched this genre... is totally untapped. A game hasn't been targeted at the core market for a very long time. If anyone with even a slight budget were to make a game aimed at these folks, it'd get massive amounts of hype and cash regardless of how it turns out (that's what happened with Vanguard).

I'm surprised it took someone this long to wake up. Thankfully the death of SWTOR seems to have been the wakeup call that I was hoping it'd be.

I really doubt that there are so many hardcore MMO players that they would constitue a market of untapped millions. If it was true a lot of sandbox MMOS wouldn't be fighting for survival. Some of those very well made too. For example Darkfall and Ryzom.

Why didn't all the millions support these MMOS? we even had a very nice hybrid called Fallen Earth, even that sandpark MMO struggled to stay alive and now just doing 'good enough' with F2P model.

There is now a major differance with sandbox Mo's before they were at the mercy of people like Smedley who are only a figurehead for a company and of course they need to make money,with SWG he made the biggest mistake in Mo history and brought down a stigma on his company which many users still will not touch SOE with a bargepole just because he is in charge and well because it's SOE.

Now we have Kickstarter and smaller teams now create their own destiny and as a result are much more in tune with their customers as they don't have mega millions to waste and can not afford to lose half thier player base as they would be bankrupt pretty quick,come circa mid 2013 it should be pretty interesting for smaller Mo's as there will be a lot of competition in the market.

 

 

 

  Nikkita

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/25/10
Posts: 830

9/07/12 5:30:11 PM#48
Originally posted by Tibernicus
Originally posted by Nikkita
Originally posted by Tibernicus
Originally posted by Nikkita
Maybe not a pure sandbox but a hybrid of themepark and sandbox features would do great if done right. In the end what matters is that gameplay is fun and interesting. Sandbox or no sandbox.

It is simple business. The themepark market is oversaturated with filth, too many games.

The hardcore MMORPG market, a market of millions, the millions that launched this genre... is totally untapped. A game hasn't been targeted at the core market for a very long time. If anyone with even a slight budget were to make a game aimed at these folks, it'd get massive amounts of hype and cash regardless of how it turns out (that's what happened with Vanguard).

I'm surprised it took someone this long to wake up. Thankfully the death of SWTOR seems to have been the wakeup call that I was hoping it'd be.

I really doubt that there are so many hardcore MMO players that they would constitue a market of untapped millions. If it was true a lot of sandbox MMOS wouldn't be fighting for survival. Some of those very well made too. For example Darkfall and Ryzom.

Why didn't all the millions support these MMOS? we even had a very nice hybrid called Fallen Earth, even that sandpark MMO struggled to stay alive and now just doing 'good enough' with F2P model.

Darkfall is FFA PVP. That's reason enough for it to be an uphill battle. But I do expect it to have a much larger player base once 2.0 releases.

Ryzom never got much publicity and went through development hell, getting wiped and redone several times. But mainly the no publicity thing.

Fallen Earth, I'm not sure what happened there. I only played it briefly, it wasn't totally my style of game/setting, but I could tell it was something special. One of the best post WoW MMOs to be sure. But there isn't a huge audience for post apoc games I guess.

 

But here's the thing, all 3 of these games were made by underfunded indie dev studios with little to no experience. 

Even in the MMO golden age, the people making those early MMOs had TONS of experience. Ultima Online had 8 Ultima games to work off of. Dark Age of Camelot had the backbone of about 4 different MUDS that Mythic had developed. EverQuest was backed by MUDs as well.

Now imagine if a bigger more experienced studio made a game for the hardcore market. It wouldn't have to have a budget nearly as big as a themepark MMO because a) most of the content is player generated and b) the market is UNCONTESTED. You're not struggling to outpace all the other games already in the genre, because there are none. Vanguard is the closest game to trying this approach, but it was mismanaged on 3 different levels. First, by Microsoft, who dropped it after they got a new CEO that didn't want to deal with MMOs, by Sigil itself because the man in charge was a better designer than he was a company manager, and struggled to keep all the massive talent and egos behind the game in line, and by SoE who forced the game out 8 months early, within the same week as Burning Crusade.

And despite all this, Vanguard sold insanely well for the first few weeks and had hundreds of thousands of people clamoring about it.

 

If someone were to make a hardcore MMO like Vanguard, on a realistic budget, they'd have a clear path to the millions of MMO gamers who haven't had anywhere to go since the collapse of the MMO genre in 2004.

And yes, millions. There were dozens and dozens of MMOs before WoW came out. 300k in DAoC, 500k in EQ, 400k in SWG, 250k in UO, 200k in AC. Many of those folks are still here, waiting for a game that hearkens back to what they liked about the genre. And there's plenty of new blood looking for something a bit different. You see a lot of converts in Vanguard who only ever played WoW but thought it was too easy. You see in in games like Dark Souls, where Skyrim and CoD fans try it, an insanely hard oldschool game, and fall in love with it.

 

What makes better business sense, sinking 300 million into a game model that is proven to not work, EVER (themepark/WoW clone) or make a much smaller risk into a genre that might net insane profits?

Yes it might. The problem is not the budget or indie devs. Eve started with 20K susbcribers and have been grewing in numbers since. CCP were also unexperinced but they still pulled it off.

Problem is that one success story alone isn't enough to encourage investors to sink millions into a project which 'might'  make them insane profit when all other sanbox are falling like flies left and right.What we need is more successful MMOS like EVE started on decent budget  before expecting some poor investor to blow his million on a AAA sandbox.

Now only thing left to see is response to Archage and Repopulation, if indeed there are millions of these players hiding in the woods waiting for a sandbox MMO now would be the time to come out and support these titles. And if these sink too well...these millions can only blame themselves. 

 


Bite Me

  adderVXI

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/08/05
Posts: 622

~Brawndo~

9/07/12 5:37:33 PM#49

OMG!!  I just had a thought!

What if there making PS2 the sandbox replacement for SWG!!! 

OMG i figured it out!!!!!!!

!

:)

Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master.

George Washington

  Tibernicus

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/15/12
Posts: 437

9/07/12 5:41:41 PM#50
Originally posted by Nikkita
Originally posted by Tibernicus
Originally posted by Nikkita
Originally posted by Tibernicus
Originally posted by Nikkita
Maybe not a pure sandbox but a hybrid of themepark and sandbox features would do great if done right. In the end what matters is that gameplay is fun and interesting. Sandbox or no sandbox.

It is simple business. The themepark market is oversaturated with filth, too many games.

The hardcore MMORPG market, a market of millions, the millions that launched this genre... is totally untapped. A game hasn't been targeted at the core market for a very long time. If anyone with even a slight budget were to make a game aimed at these folks, it'd get massive amounts of hype and cash regardless of how it turns out (that's what happened with Vanguard).

I'm surprised it took someone this long to wake up. Thankfully the death of SWTOR seems to have been the wakeup call that I was hoping it'd be.

I really doubt that there are so many hardcore MMO players that they would constitue a market of untapped millions. If it was true a lot of sandbox MMOS wouldn't be fighting for survival. Some of those very well made too. For example Darkfall and Ryzom.

Why didn't all the millions support these MMOS? we even had a very nice hybrid called Fallen Earth, even that sandpark MMO struggled to stay alive and now just doing 'good enough' with F2P model.

Darkfall is FFA PVP. That's reason enough for it to be an uphill battle. But I do expect it to have a much larger player base once 2.0 releases.

Ryzom never got much publicity and went through development hell, getting wiped and redone several times. But mainly the no publicity thing.

Fallen Earth, I'm not sure what happened there. I only played it briefly, it wasn't totally my style of game/setting, but I could tell it was something special. One of the best post WoW MMOs to be sure. But there isn't a huge audience for post apoc games I guess.

 

But here's the thing, all 3 of these games were made by underfunded indie dev studios with little to no experience. 

Even in the MMO golden age, the people making those early MMOs had TONS of experience. Ultima Online had 8 Ultima games to work off of. Dark Age of Camelot had the backbone of about 4 different MUDS that Mythic had developed. EverQuest was backed by MUDs as well.

Now imagine if a bigger more experienced studio made a game for the hardcore market. It wouldn't have to have a budget nearly as big as a themepark MMO because a) most of the content is player generated and b) the market is UNCONTESTED. You're not struggling to outpace all the other games already in the genre, because there are none. Vanguard is the closest game to trying this approach, but it was mismanaged on 3 different levels. First, by Microsoft, who dropped it after they got a new CEO that didn't want to deal with MMOs, by Sigil itself because the man in charge was a better designer than he was a company manager, and struggled to keep all the massive talent and egos behind the game in line, and by SoE who forced the game out 8 months early, within the same week as Burning Crusade.

And despite all this, Vanguard sold insanely well for the first few weeks and had hundreds of thousands of people clamoring about it.

 

If someone were to make a hardcore MMO like Vanguard, on a realistic budget, they'd have a clear path to the millions of MMO gamers who haven't had anywhere to go since the collapse of the MMO genre in 2004.

And yes, millions. There were dozens and dozens of MMOs before WoW came out. 300k in DAoC, 500k in EQ, 400k in SWG, 250k in UO, 200k in AC. Many of those folks are still here, waiting for a game that hearkens back to what they liked about the genre. And there's plenty of new blood looking for something a bit different. You see a lot of converts in Vanguard who only ever played WoW but thought it was too easy. You see in in games like Dark Souls, where Skyrim and CoD fans try it, an insanely hard oldschool game, and fall in love with it.

 

What makes better business sense, sinking 300 million into a game model that is proven to not work, EVER (themepark/WoW clone) or make a much smaller risk into a genre that might net insane profits?

Yes it might. The problem is not the budget or indie devs. Eve started with 20K susbcribers and have been grewing in numbers since. CCP were also unexperinced but they still pulled it off.

Problem is that one success story alone isn't enough to encourage investors to sink millions into a project which 'might'  make them insane profit when all other sanbox are falling like flies left and right.What we need is more successful MMOS like EVE started on decent budget  before expecting some poor investor to blow his million on a AAA sandbox.

Now only thing left to see is response to Archage and Repopulation, if indeed there are millions of these players hiding in the woods waiting for a sandbox MMO now would be the time to come out and support these titles. And if these sink too well...these millions can only blame themselves. 

 

To be honest, the only progress that'll be made is when publishers get out of the industry. They haven't been making good decisions. Despite every themepark WoW clone to date failing horribly, they keep making more, just because ONE was successful. People say "but investing in a sandbox is so risky" I'd say its far FAR riskier investing in a themepark.

  funyahns

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/02/12
Posts: 315

9/07/12 5:57:56 PM#51
 I don't know that  there is multi million market out there for just a sandbox game. I think it has to be more than that, it has to be a very well done sandbox game.  I know EQ is not a sandbox, but I think if you had a game with that sort of grouping dynamic mixed in with lots of tools I think you could get a pretty high population. I don't think 500,000 would be out of the question.  The difficulty is mixing in enough things to keep several gamer types happy without overly catering to one type.
  Terranah

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/03/04
Posts: 3616

9/07/12 5:58:07 PM#52
This is the first intelligent thing I've heard Smed say since....well, he's never said anything intelligent until now. 
  Tibernicus

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/15/12
Posts: 437

9/07/12 6:35:28 PM#53
Originally posted by Terranah
This is the first intelligent thing I've heard Smed say since....well, he's never said anything intelligent until now. 

Well, he was the one who originally pitched the idea of a 3D MMO to his company, before UO or AC even existed. He also recruited Brad McQuaid. I'd say that was pretty smart.

  Kiljaedenas

Novice Member

Joined: 7/29/11
Posts: 466

To err is human, but to really f*ck things up you need a computer.

9/07/12 6:43:41 PM#54
Originally posted by MindTrigger
Originally posted by bunnyhopper

It's a no brainer that a major part of the issue with longevity these days in mmos is due to the fact it is all scripted content and next to no actual longer term style community/player driven content.

 

When you churn out mmos akin to single player games, it's no wonder people lose interest in the rapidly.

It makes me laugh to think of how many tens of millions of dollars I could have saved several game companies over the last few years had they sat me down for a chat about MMOs.  ROFL.

See, some of you like to sit back and talk about how this website is full of people who complain about everything.  I see it differently.  I think a lot of the people here are more on the bleeding-edge of MMO gaming, and some of us have seen the writing on the wall for Themepark games for years.

It's true that complainers tend to spend more time on boards, but it's also true that hardcore players and mmo enthusiasts who have been playing for a very long time do as well. If I had a game company, I would have regular online focus groups to discuss mmo gaming in general with the community.  It's not hard to weed out people who are just eternally depressed about everything.

I rather like that statement. That may also be one of the reasons why Eve does so well is because of the CSM. True, the effectiveness of the CSM has been mixed at times, and also depends on who you ask, but the very fact that it is there and that CCP both  listens to them and directly modifies the game based off of the biggest pain points that the CSM brings to their attention is solid proof that they really do care about their customer base, and are committed to constant improvement based on customer feedback. I honestly think that every single MMO both current and future needs at least that level of live interaction between the game developer and their customers, and it could really help the long-term quality of MMOs.

Where's the any key?

  bosmer24

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/28/04
Posts: 114

9/07/12 6:48:11 PM#55
You may not like the Smed,but the thought of EQ next having sandbox elements .... Fuck yeah!
  zethcarn

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/18/04
Posts: 1564

9/07/12 9:25:04 PM#56
Again talk is cheap.  You can't trust Smed any further than you can throw him.
  Malcanis

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/17/09
Posts: 3207

"A very special kind of stupidity"

9/08/12 5:38:48 AM#57
Originally posted by zethcarn
Again talk is cheap.  You can't trust Smed any further than you can throw him.

 

Nevertheless it is illuminating that he has been playing EVE for some years, and not just grinding missions but out here in 0.0 space. At the very least it means that he's been thoroughly exposed to a working model of an MMO experience other than Yet Another Orks And Elves Themepark.

And there are lots of things EVE does really well that would translate well into other games - the EVE economy, the PLEX system (the success of PLEX will surely have stirred Smedley's greedy black heart), tiered security status areas and so on - these could all translate quite well into any MMO genre.

Give me liberty or give me lasers

  Wizardry

Elite Member

Joined: 8/27/04
Posts: 6732

Perhaps tomorrow will be better.

9/08/12 6:24:50 AM#58

It is a great idea in the right hands,SOE is NOT the right people to do this.I quit EQ2 because their greed was overwhelming.

They created the dungeon maker but all centered around cash shop.So here i was paying a subscription of 15 bucks and they wanted more lol.

I see this more as a very lazy gimmick for developers to cash in on yet even less effort.

You can't plop down an empty map and tell players to fight for resources.I know exactly what would happen >>>botting and tons of it.I also see in the hands of SOE a huge cash shop because resources would run out,then you have to buy from the cash shop or the rmt botters lol.

I would rather see users submit game ideas,then they get posted for players to vote on.Then the staff works with those ideas and puts them on a test server.One month testing then if it gets a finalized postive vote,it makes it into game.

I can download the UDK for free,why would i pay someone like SOE,to let me use the program?As long as you don't profit from the UDK it is free to use.

If i am going to pay someone like SOE,i want them to make the content.If you want 15 bucks a month,.i want the next content to be made with that 15 bucks.That is 180 bucks a year,when i only paid 60 bucks to buy the game that took 4 years to make.

I do not want a developer to plop down an empty game and say here farm some nodes.I could see it go even further,you need to buy a blueprint from the cash shop to make that house lol.You want protrection?Well our cash shop has reinforced walls so your house cannot be destroyed.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Napolianboo#p/u/15/rCYLLQCNc1w
Samoan Diamond

  MumboJumbo

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/18/10
Posts: 3176

Veni, Vidi, Converti

9/08/12 7:32:57 AM#59

I'm not a fan of when talking heads try to generate BUZZ in their 'announcement' statements AND actually describe the state of mmorpgs seriously:

1) Market

2) Design

It's mashing a lot of different ambitions together. And it's been seen when ppl do this, there's more hype than substance to what they say: More attempt to put the right words in players' ears than actual concrete example pulling it off already?

Because it probably is a good case for sandbox, especially after the latest SWTOR disappointment from profits and players for that direction. Just look at Minecraft's 7m where the community builds stuff that anyone else in the community could build and interact with and see what players have put hours into designing. :)

  Grixxitt

Novice Member

Joined: 5/18/12
Posts: 556

9/08/12 11:23:51 AM#60

The only reason I began to respect Smedley is that he actually admitted to making horrible mistakes with SWG, EQ2 and Vanguard.

 

 

I wouldn't buy or trash a game based on the Sony tag, but I would look at it on its own merits. Time will tell if he's full of crap about the PS2 sandbox elements or not. (Sounds unexpectedly awesome I must say)

The above is my personal opinion. Anyone displaying a view contrary to my opinion is obviously WRONG and should STHU. (neener neener)

-The MMO Forum Community

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