I can agree some what with the OP. At first the game wasn't all that entertaining and the skill bar in the beginning (especially at lvl 9) is very restrictive. But once i got lvl 30+ and got dem fancy elite skills things started  to get more interesting. Not just that the zones and environments and zone events became more interesting and entertaining.

I think its just the game feels rather stagnant from 1-20 but it does get much better imo. 

The only real real problem i have is how different the skill bar is from GW1. in GW1 every single skill mattered in a build, but it feels like some of the utility skills in this game are kind of useless, though ive only played warrior so far.

Except as a snb warrior im loving the endure pain/frenzy combo. In gw1 you could only have one stance but it seems in gw2 u can double stance, which pretty much makes frenzy's 50% extra damage negilible, and frenzy is freaouking awesome as hell. Allows me to stack almost 10 bleeds from just spamming auto skill, and those are the nice deep bleeds too.

i kinda wonder if i should went guardian tho, cuz in gw1 i ran alot of wammo builds.

Originally posted by Eir_S

Originally posted by dreamer05

I don't hate the game or think that it's terrible (aside from a few features that should be expected in a AAA mmo)

This is the part that always interests me.  I'd love to hear more.

Let me guess, mounts, raids, and LFG to start.

How did I do?

Originally posted by dreamer05

I really really wanted to love this game.  I just can't get into it. 

The pvp battlegrounds can be pretty fun but with no real reward I don't see any motivation to keep going and going.   I am not a big quester, and while I enjoy the classes and the world is beautiful I just hate the way they did the weapon skills.  After your weapon skills are complete, what other reason is there to level?  Yea I get the support and healing skills but none of them ever really seem worth grinding up and still using the same weapon skills you've always used throughout the whole game.  I feel that the WvWvW was very fun at first and probably could be still but because of the reason I just mentioned for finding the classes boring I can't get into it that often either. 

So here I sit with two level 9 characters and no real drive to log back in.  Even my good friend who plays with me and loves to quest isn't very motivated to log in.  Maybe I'm missing something here but I feel there is such a lack of reward versus how much grind they put into this one isn't equalling out.  The way they did class skills is extremely boring to me and I don't see any reason whatsoever to level to 80.  I don't hate the game or think that it's terrible (aside from a few features that should be expected in a AAA mmo), I'm just extremely bored by it and dissapointed because I was hoping it would keep me entertained for a few months at least.

At LVL 9 there is no way you even know how fun the combat is or not.

Once you put more points into your traits and such, you unlock new weapons and skills. I can have a grenade slot which has its own 5 skills, a flaethrower that has its own 5 and so on, probably 10-15 new weapons to unlock as you lvl with 4-5-6 skills each.

You probably ruined your MMORPG days by grinding and doing battlegrounds in WOW for years and don't know what to do without that.

Originally posted by Dakeru

Originally posted by dreamer05

 I enjoy the classes 

  The way they did class skills is extremely boring

Contradicting much?

the world is beautiful

And I'm sure you saw a lot of the world at level 9.

 

Not really you can still like a class, but not like the skill/talent system. Learn what a contradiction really is.

I don't know about you OP, but just now I finished a 5 hours session of GW2. I am level 62 , but I left behind the story quests , at around level 35. In those 5 hours, I told myself to get back to the story quests and try to make as many as I could. Oh boy .. the way they tell the story later on and how well they are writen and told, it got my attention very fast and I enjoyed them a lot! I normally, skip the quests chats and such , but after today , I will never do that in GW2.

So , stay at level 9 , go play whatever game you want! GW2 is a game to PLAY, to explore, to learn your character, your story ..to learn your game!

I find the game irritating if I play it with the habits the last decade of MMOs have taught me.

For me, the key to enjoying Guild Wars 2 is to chill out and explore it naturally. Spare no thought for what you're expected to be doing and just do what you want.

Not that it's a sandbox, but it is an extremely lenient, and dense, themepark, packed so full of stuff that I've noticed absolutely no grind for 15 levels now. About 11 of those level-ups I didn't even notice.

Originally posted by Emerwyn

I'm pretty sure the vast majority of people will find having duels a basic mmo feature, especially in a AAA game that is heavily focused into PvP.

 

If you think otherwise then that's good for you, I guess. Probably in time you'll change your mind, when another game attracts your inconditional praise and love. I like seeing things from outside the box while others are too busy having their honeymoon with a videogame.

 

The whole game feels like a dumbed down mmo to me. Fun in its own right, and worth the cash (I've already spent around 100 hours, so that's that). But far from the promised Eden it was sold as.

 Vast majority? I am pretty sure you are wrong. Why would I change my mind? Duels are not needed. Duels are not a basic part of a game. And definately not part of the GW games I have played.

Promised Eden? Do people really buy into hype so easily? No wonder you feel the way you do. You had unrealistic expectations.

Now please name the dozen features that other AAA titles have the GW2 does not.

Really dont get how so many people can be so uninformed about a game they get and apparently have no idea that the traits system even exists or how big of a difference it can make in your builds and customization. If you havent checked ut the traits, and what they allow you to do, i suggest playing around with this: http://www.gw2db.com/skills/calc/elementalist

Pick a couple classes you like, spend some points in traits, see what youre able to unlock, then come back and say there wont be a difference between low level and high level by unlocking these.

Originally posted by MosesZD

Originally posted by Emerwyn

I'm pretty sure the vast majority of people will find having duels a basic mmo feature, especially in a AAA game that is heavily focused into PvP.

 

If you think otherwise then that's good for you, I guess. Probably in time you'll change your mind, when another game attracts your inconditional praise and love. I like seeing things from outside the box while others are too busy having their honeymoon with a videogame.

 

The whole game feels like a dumbed down mmo to me. Fun in its own right, and worth the cash (I've already spent around 100 hours, so that's that). But far from the promised Eden it was sold as.

 

Not really.   Sadly though it seems that most self-identified PvPers think it's all about them.   It's not.   Most people never duel or PvP.   Most of those who do barely dabble in it.  And only a small minority  do it 'hardcore' despite all the bravado and claims.

 

 

 Yeah the PvP is everything crowd showed up in DDO when I was playing. They posted non stop how PvP and duels would save the game and then it got added. No one ever dueled and the PvP pits were rarely used at all and when they were it was mostly to test skills and weapons.

Originally posted by dreamer05

I really really wanted to love this game.  I just can't get into it. 

The pvp battlegrounds can be pretty fun but with no real reward I don't see any motivation to keep going and going.   I am not a big quester, and while I enjoy the classes and the world is beautiful I just hate the way they did the weapon skills.  After your weapon skills are complete, what other reason is there to level?  Yea I get the support and healing skills but none of them ever really seem worth grinding up and still using the same weapon skills you've always used throughout the whole game.  I feel that the WvWvW was very fun at first and probably could be still but because of the reason I just mentioned for finding the classes boring I can't get into it that often either. 

So here I sit with two level 9 characters and no real drive to log back in.  Even my good friend who plays with me and loves to quest isn't very motivated to log in.  Maybe I'm missing something here but I feel there is such a lack of reward versus how much grind they put into this one isn't equalling out.  The way they did class skills is extremely boring to me and I don't see any reason whatsoever to level to 80.  I don't hate the game or think that it's terrible (aside from a few features that should be expected in a AAA mmo), I'm just extremely bored by it and dissapointed because I was hoping it would keep me entertained for a few months at least.

You are probably better off sticking with the previous generation of mmos. GW2 is a fresh new type of mmo that not only promotes change in the genre, it requires players to change how they think and play in mmos.

You answered your own question right at the start.

GW2 has no carrot and you've been trained to need a carrot.

Originally posted by dreamer05

I just hate the way they did the weapon skills.  After your weapon skills are complete, what other reason is there to level?  Yea I get the support and healing skills but none of them ever really seem worth grinding up and still using the same weapon skills you've always used throughout the whole game.

I think people who say this REALLY need to look at Traits more than anything else.

There are a lot of trait builds that fundamentally change how you'd play your class.  That's where a lot of the meat of leveling and build complexity is.  They combine with weapon and other skills in a lot of ways while still leaving a lot of possibilities.

Originally posted by Rokurgepta

Originally posted by Lorkii

Originally posted by wireyankee
Honest review, and I tend to agree with much of what you said. I still think it's a good game, I'm just not wowed by it at all. The fact that it's "FREE" creates a lot of favorable reviews. If GW@ was subscription based I don't think it would be receiving the praise it does currently.

I agree with this. It isn t a bad game, but if it were a sub game, it would be half if not 1/4 as popular.

 But lets be honest sub based games are basically going the way of the dinosaur. To say if it was sub based it would be 1/4 as popular is silly. Chances are if it was sub based it would go the way of SWTOR at some point in the future, but thats as much because of the way gaming is going as it is anything the game does right or wrong. F2P or hybrid like DDO has done is the wave of the future and in reality the wave of the present. Sub based gaming is just about done.

People have been saying that for at least 3 years now. There are still sub-based games around, and new ones are or have been released that still have them.

They'll still be saying it 3 years from now.

And then 3 years after that.

Subscriptions are the ideal payment method for certain MMOs based on the way they're designed.

Just like F2P/Cash shops are the ideal setup for MMOs designed around that idea.

Just like B2P is the same way.

F2P is "the new craze". B2P+Cash Shop (the GW2 model) is just another alternative.

Subs aren't going anywhere. Just get over it already.

Originally posted by TangentPoint

People have been saying that for at least 3 years now. There are still sub-based games around, and new ones are or have been released that still have them.

They'll still be saying it 3 years from now.

And then 3 years after that.

Subscriptions are the ideal payment method for certain MMOs based on the way they're designed.

Just like F2P/Cash shops are the ideal setup for MMOs designed around that idea.

Just like B2P is the same way.

F2P is "the new craze". B2P+Cash Shop (the GW2 model) is just another alternative.

Subs aren't going anywhere. Just get over it already.

Well, Subs are ideal for the company.  It is easier to keep people paying subs than to keep them buying new products.  A lot less work and a lot more profit.  I don't really see how it serves the consumer well at all.

Originally posted by Drachasor

Originally posted by dreamer05

I just hate the way they did the weapon skills.  After your weapon skills are complete, what other reason is there to level?  Yea I get the support and healing skills but none of them ever really seem worth grinding up and still using the same weapon skills you've always used throughout the whole game.

I think people who say this REALLY need to look at Traits more than anything else.

There are a lot of trait builds that fundamentally change how you'd play your class.  That's where a lot of the meat of leveling and build complexity is.  They combine with weapon and other skills in a lot of ways while still leaving a lot of possibilities.

I keep trying to explain this to people, but seems like a lot dont get it. Just as an example with a ranger build that i can create, here are things Ill have at 80 tha I didnt have at lower level:

Stat increases:

300 Power

30% Condition duration

300 Precision

30% Critical damage

100 Vitality

10% Boon duration

Skills / effects:

Opening Strike - Cause vulnerability with 1st strike when entering combat

Damage increased by 10% when Endurance is full

Pets have Opening Strike

All arrow attacks pierce targets

Opening STrike always critical hits

Increase Precision of nearby allies by 70 points

Gain swiftness when swapping weapons in combat

Critical hits grant Might to your pets

Gain Fury when swapping weapons in combat

Bow skills recharge 20% faster

Deal 10% more damage while flanking (behind or to the side of enemy)

Conditions caused by traps last twice as long and traps recharge 20% faster

Gain Regen when your health reaches 75%

Regeneration you apply last 33% longer

This doesnt even account for Utility & Elite Skills, or customizing my character further through Rune & Sigil use.

Runes & Sigils are another huge factor for building your character to server different purposes. For example on my Ranger right now im running a Rune that adds +5 Power for each kill, up to 25 stacks. So when fully charged Ive got a bonus +125 power. This is just with a low level rune. There are better versions of it that add even more. Theres also runes that increase other stats, increase duration of effects, add procs such as fire AoEs, lightning strikes, etc, Health stealing effects, increased damage vs certain enemies, increased damage vs people who you stun/knockdown/daze.... a huge list of varied effects depending on how you upgrade your gear, way too many for me to go through on a list here.

Originally posted by Syno23

Originally posted by dreamer05

I really really wanted to love this game.  I just can't get into it. 

The pvp battlegrounds can be pretty fun but with no real reward I don't see any motivation to keep going and going.   I am not a big quester, and while I enjoy the classes and the world is beautiful I just hate the way they did the weapon skills.  After your weapon skills are complete, what other reason is there to level?  Yea I get the support and healing skills but none of them ever really seem worth grinding up and still using the same weapon skills you've always used throughout the whole game.  I feel that the WvWvW was very fun at first and probably could be still but because of the reason I just mentioned for finding the classes boring I can't get into it that often either. 

So here I sit with two level 9 characters and no real drive to log back in.  Even my good friend who plays with me and loves to quest isn't very motivated to log in.  Maybe I'm missing something here but I feel there is such a lack of reward versus how much grind they put into this one isn't equalling out.  The way they did class skills is extremely boring to me and I don't see any reason whatsoever to level to 80.  I don't hate the game or think that it's terrible (aside from a few features that should be expected in a AAA mmo), I'm just extremely bored by it and dissapointed because I was hoping it would keep me entertained for a few months at least.

well that's you. You'll be missing out on all the fun, expansions, updates, that this game has to offer. Go back to WoW.

Out of the two of us, you're the one who sounds like you came from WoW.  I never played wow for more than a month.  I've been playing MMOs since EQ and would stake more claim to Rift than any other recent mmo.  Learn how to talk with adults sweety.

Originally posted by TangentPoint

Originally posted by Rokurgepta

Originally posted by Lorkii

Originally posted by wireyankee
Honest review, and I tend to agree with much of what you said. I still think it's a good game, I'm just not wowed by it at all. The fact that it's "FREE" creates a lot of favorable reviews. If GW@ was subscription based I don't think it would be receiving the praise it does currently.

I agree with this. It isn t a bad game, but if it were a sub game, it would be half if not 1/4 as popular.

 But lets be honest sub based games are basically going the way of the dinosaur. To say if it was sub based it would be 1/4 as popular is silly. Chances are if it was sub based it would go the way of SWTOR at some point in the future, but thats as much because of the way gaming is going as it is anything the game does right or wrong. F2P or hybrid like DDO has done is the wave of the future and in reality the wave of the present. Sub based gaming is just about done.

People have been saying that for at least 3 years now. There are still sub-based games around, and new ones are or have been released that still have them.

They'll still be saying it 3 years from now.

And then 3 years after that.

Subscriptions are the ideal payment method for certain MMOs based on the way they're designed.

Just like F2P/Cash shops are the ideal setup for MMOs designed around that idea.

Just like B2P is the same way.

F2P is "the new craze". B2P+Cash Shop (the GW2 model) is just another alternative.

Subs aren't going anywhere. Just get over it already.

 

 

 Yes there are still sub based games. That alone does not make what I said false. The fact you have premier titles going from sub based to some form of free to play is proof that what I said has a better chance of happening then your claims of it being a craze or a fad.  Even games designed for subscriptions have gone away from it. The F2P simply gets your product more exposure. Personally I hate the F2P model as it attracts the lowest common denominators to the game and in general forms a horrible community. But as a business plan it makes more money for the average MMO. Not every game can be WoW when it comes to playerbase.

The number of games being released with a subscription format for pay is tiny compared to just 5 years ago.

The fact is subs are going away. Soon enough almost no new game will open with that payment method. Saying anything else is just ignorance of the market.

Originally posted by kaiser3282

Originally posted by Drachasor

Originally posted by dreamer05

I just hate the way they did the weapon skills.  After your weapon skills are complete, what other reason is there to level?  Yea I get the support and healing skills but none of them ever really seem worth grinding up and still using the same weapon skills you've always used throughout the whole game.

I think people who say this REALLY need to look at Traits more than anything else.

There are a lot of trait builds that fundamentally change how you'd play your class.  That's where a lot of the meat of leveling and build complexity is.  They combine with weapon and other skills in a lot of ways while still leaving a lot of possibilities.

I keep trying to explain this to people, but seems like a lot dont get it. Just as an example with a ranger build that i can create, here are things Ill have at 80 tha I didnt have at lower level:

Stat increases:

300 Power

30% Condition duration

300 Precision

30% Critical damage

100 Vitality

10% Boon duration

Skills / effects:

Opening Strike - Cause vulnerability with 1st strike when entering combat

Damage increased by 10% when Endurance is full

Pets have Opening Strike

All arrow attacks pierce targets

Opening STrike always critical hits

Increase Precision of nearby allies by 70 points

Gain swiftness when swapping weapons in combat

Critical hits grant Might to your pets

Gain Fury when swapping weapons in combat

Bow skills recharge 20% faster

Deal 10% more damage while flanking (behind or to the side of enemy)

Conditions caused by traps last twice as long and traps recharge 20% faster

Gain Regen when your health reaches 75%

Regeneration you apply last 33% longer

 What trait set up will you have to achieve this? I am at level 20 on my Ranger and would like to look at what your layout will be. PM if you dont want to have it in public, if you dont mind of course.

Originally posted by khameleon

Originally posted by dreamer05

I really really wanted to love this game.  I just can't get into it. 

The pvp battlegrounds can be pretty fun but with no real reward I don't see any motivation to keep going and going.   I am not a big quester, and while I enjoy the classes and the world is beautiful I just hate the way they did the weapon skills.  After your weapon skills are complete, what other reason is there to level?  Yea I get the support and healing skills but none of them ever really seem worth grinding up and still using the same weapon skills you've always used throughout the whole game.  I feel that the WvWvW was very fun at first and probably could be still but because of the reason I just mentioned for finding the classes boring I can't get into it that often either. 

So here I sit with two level 9 characters and no real drive to log back in.  Even my good friend who plays with me and loves to quest isn't very motivated to log in.  Maybe I'm missing something here but I feel there is such a lack of reward versus how much grind they put into this one isn't equalling out.  The way they did class skills is extremely boring to me and I don't see any reason whatsoever to level to 80.  I don't hate the game or think that it's terrible (aside from a few features that should be expected in a AAA mmo), I'm just extremely bored by it and dissapointed because I was hoping it would keep me entertained for a few months at least.

At LVL 9 there is no way you even know how fun the combat is or not.

Once you put more points into your traits and such, you unlock new weapons and skills. I can have a grenade slot which has its own 5 skills, a flaethrower that has its own 5 and so on, probably 10-15 new weapons to unlock as you lvl with 4-5-6 skills each.

You probably ruined your MMORPG days by grinding and doing battlegrounds in WOW for years and don't know what to do without that.

 

Again, never a big WoW fan.  Look up years of past posts on here and you'll see that.  Why is that the standard insult?  My people (EQ, UO, DAoC) created that inslut, at least identify correctly who to toss it at.

Originally posted by dreamer05

I really really wanted to love this game.  I just can't get into it. 

The pvp battlegrounds can be pretty fun but with no real reward I don't see any motivation to keep going and going.  

This is just something that has to be this or that. There's a whole lot of people who whines in other games that the PvP (and end game) is a huge gear grind and they dont like it.

I belong more or less to that lot, and I really dont like the gear grind mode since the gear is not anykind of "real reward" like many are being led to believe. How is it "real" when you are supposed to replace it untill the world's end? You never really get anything good that does not get replaced soon. Anyway, some people like that, and some does not, finally an alternative for a gear grind so it should be nice that there's some variety now.

About the class skills, I kind of agree with everything coming too fast, I was around lvl15-20 when I started to feel like my char is kind of "unlocked" and it gave me a brief "meh" feeling. I just kept going since I love the world and the sense of discovery it gives me, and I realized that after the initial shock this "fast ability gain" system is better in some ways.

A common whine with mmorpgs is "why do I have to wait till high levels to start enjoying the game?" which can mean several things. Like epic encounters, or then there's the class unlocks like abilities and talents. You get abilities fast in GW2 which means you can very fast start playing your char like you want to, and not wait for days or weeks to unlock that potentially nice and cool ability. The filler abilities are basically gone and I dont really miss them just to get something useless along the ding.

There's still the trait points coming in untill the max level which give quite a lot customization to your char. Also, you basically need to level if you enjoy WvW since your char is so much worse at low levels even with the scaling up to 80 when you are short a ton of trait points and stats.

Then there's other things, like gaining stuff to get your appearance right, collecting sigils and other higher level customization stuff, getting achievements, puzzles etc. I'm pretty occupied and having a lot of fun after some adaptation about certain things :) But yeah, it is what it is, mostly design choises, not flaws imo.