Originally posted by jpnole

Originally posted by Krytycal

Originally posted by Creslin321

Originally posted by Krytycal

Originally posted by Creslin321

Reality - GW2 sold so many copies that they had to halt sales.

You realize that doesn't prove anything, right?  All it shows is that they weren't prepared to accomadate the sales they did get, which if anything, is a failure on their part and will hurt them long-term.

 When you sell more than you thought you would...that's called being successful.  No, it doesn't prove that the game is "TEH WoW KILLAH!" or anything like that, but it proves that the game is doing well.

Do you honestly believe that after years of development, ANet's server infrastructure was so crappy that it couldn't support enough sales for the game to be considered a success?

Not in the business world it isn't. There it's called failure to project sales. It can irreparably hurt companies and people get fired over it. Shutting down sales is not a success. Especially not for an MMO themepark, where they need to sell as many copies at launch before the drop-off hits them. It will be no different with GW2 and it's already showing. Only difference is they did not grab as many sales as they possibly could, which I guarantee you months from now we'll be looking back and listing that as a reason why GW2 didn't do as well as everyone expected.

 

You have no idea what you are talking about. With the digital sales offline and scarcity in stores, the end result is essentially going to be a "second launch" when all the pent up demand is released. The million preorder sales is just the tip of the iceberg. Even you will eventually buy it.

There is no pent-up demand. Anyone who really wants to buy the game can already buy it if they search well enough. Will sales increase when they reinstate the digital version? Of course, anything is higher than the 0 digital sales gw2.com is getting right now. However, there's no guarantee they will get as many sales two weeks down the road as they could be getting now. If MMO history has taught us anything, it's actually not likely to happen.

Could GW2 be the exception to the rule? Your guess is as good as mine. Only time can tell.

Originally posted by Distopia

If they pass that we'll hear about it.
 

[Update: Darth Hater has compiled some additional TOR-related statistics and Q&A from today's EA earnings call:, 1 million concurrent."  ]

IF there's one thing we know when milestones are reached we get announcements of them. Like the 400k concurrent. IF they break TORs 2 mil sales or 1 mil concurrent we'll know about it as it would be considered the fastest selling MMO of all time as TOR was.

Yes they will be shouting this from the rooftops if they can beat TOR.

(And it's fine to celebrate a milestone like that)

Now if TOR could ditch their subscription soon, they could maybe make it a bit of a fight.

Originally posted by Krytycal

GW2 had as much hype and marketing behind it as SWTOR did, if not more.

Sorry i think the Pinocchio thread is that way ---->

Originally posted by Krytycal

 They were also had the B2P model going for them. You're delusional if you think they weren't shooting for SWTOR's numbers.

They didn't tell how much they were expecting to sell. "A lot" is ... kinda vague.

What we know for now is that the had 1 M Prepurchase... and this leaves out the preorders and all the sales they had since the 25th August.

The game topped the charts and did even better than swtor on some.

They had 400k concurrent users at start topping the 350k from Swtor.

For all we know it's doing extremely well.

Originally posted by Krytycal

 IPs don't have nearly as much weight on the success of the game as people think. Look at all the "successful" MMOs now days, most of them are in-house IPs. Now look at the ones with strong IPs, yeah.

Wait  you are confusing things.

IPs don't make a game successfull... that's true. Where IP matter are the initial sales. And Swtor had a huge VERY huge pusth in the initial stage from the IP. They even closed SWG to push it even more.

To sell well at start and being successfull in the long run are two different things.

Another example: Warhammer.

Originally posted by hikaru77

Originally posted by DiSpLiFF

I went on a 10 day cruise so I missed the "big" launch of GW2. Did it live up to the hype and break all the records, smash WoW, and all the other stuff people were saying it was going to do?

I tried searching for any big news on it and found nothing other than  decent pre-launch numbers. 

NO. is even behind swtor on sales,  and is B2P wich mean, for an overhyper game like gw2 should had sold more copies, i remember NCsoft talking about 3-5mill of copies at launch, is far behind that number. 

 Do you ever get tired of spending SO much time talking about something you do not like? Nothing says I need mental help more than spending all your time on something you hate instead of on something you enjoy.

Originally posted by hikaru77

 

NO. is even behind swtor on sales,  and is B2P wich mean, for an overhyper game like gw2 should had sold more copies, 

Oh you have the GW2 sales data ? care to share the link?

Since we only know that they had 1 M prepurchase it could be interesting to read your source.

Originally posted by hikaru77

 

i remember NCsoft talking about 3-5mill of copies at launch, is far behind that number. 

Memory loss is a real pain these days...

Well he realized Guild Wars 2 is a themepark mmorpg... took him long enough. lol

Who would have guessed?

Originally posted by otacu

Originally posted by Krytycal

GW2 had as much hype and marketing behind it as SWTOR did, if not more.

Sorry i think the Pinocchio thread is that way ---->

 

 

Originally posted by Krytycal

 They were also had the B2P model going for them. You're delusional if you think they weren't shooting for SWTOR's numbers.

They didn't tell how much they were expecting to sell. "A lot" is ... kinda vague.

What we know for now is that the had 1 M Prepurchase... and this leaves out the preorders and all the sales they had since the 25th August.

The game topped the charts and did even better than swtor on some.

They had 400k concurrent users at start topping the 350k from Swtor.

For all we know it's doing extremely well.

 

Originally posted by Krytycal

 IPs don't have nearly as much weight on the success of the game as people think. Look at all the "successful" MMOs now days, most of them are in-house IPs. Now look at the ones with strong IPs, yeah.

Wait  you are confusing things.

IPs don't make a game successfull... that's true. Where IP matter are the initial sales. And Swtor had a huge VERY huge pusth in the initial stage from the IP. They even closed SWG to push it even more.

To sell well at start and being successfull in the long run are two different things.

Another example: Warhammer.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I already recognized I was way misinformed with the marketing statement. I don't watch TV, so I never saw SWTOR ads. The places I frequent had as much hype and marketing for GW2 as they did for SWTOR, so that's what my statement was based on. I should have done more reseach than that.

I still stand by the statement that ANET was likely shooting for 1-2 mil sales at release, which are close to SWTOR's numbers.

About the IP, for every game you listed with a strong IPs and strong release sales, I can list games with no IPs and strong release  sales, and games with strong IPs and mediocre to poor release sales. IP has some influence, but I wouldn't call it major. I'm sure if Bioware had release just about any Sci-Fi/Fantasy MMORPG with the budget they had it would've broken the 1mil sales regardless of IP. Heck, it might have been even more succesful considering it'd eliminate a lot of licensing expenses. Give me some real Sci-Fi over Star Wars any day.

Originally posted by Creslin321

Originally posted by waynejr2

Originally posted by Creslin321

MMORPG.com forum sentiment - GW2 has failed, OMG the false prophet!

Reality - GW2 sold so many copies that they had to halt sales.

Truth is, I don't know exactly how many they sold.  But the fact that they had to STOP sales means they obviously sold more than they expected.  I would hardly call that a failure ;).

Is that the glass is half full?  The auction house obviously they missed the estimate on the load.  Blame the devs for that.  Conservative number of servers at release:  No blame, really a smart move imo.  They halted likely for this reason.  Better to have too few than too many.

 Auction house has been up for me for a few days now...not sure if it's up for everyone.

I dunno, I am used to getting stuck in a .5-3 hour queue whenever I try to log into a mongo-popular MMORPG during launch week.  So I guess that being able to log in at any time makes the AH being down for a week not seem like such a big deal to me ;).

I'm not saying that there aren't launch issues, there ARE...and I have had a lot of annoying lag.  But I really don't think they are that big of a deal.  I don't think there has been a single extremely popular MMORPG that did not have launch issues.

Stuck in queues is something I am used to.   When CoH released, we had multiple instances of zones to prevent that.  I remember Atlas Park 1-5.  When WOW released, I didn't like the queues but dealt with it as the open world was different that coh.   SWTOR had copies of zones but that game was buggy.  GW2 has taken it to a whole nother level. (props to Mad TV).

One of the great innovations from CoH was sidekicking/mentoring (and scaling!).  The downleveling of characters to match zones is the ultimate and most natural way to implement the effect of mentoring.  Big high five to the devs on that.

Originally posted by waynejr2

Originally posted by Creslin321

Originally posted by waynejr2

Originally posted by Creslin321

MMORPG.com forum sentiment - GW2 has failed, OMG the false prophet!

Reality - GW2 sold so many copies that they had to halt sales.

Truth is, I don't know exactly how many they sold.  But the fact that they had to STOP sales means they obviously sold more than they expected.  I would hardly call that a failure ;).

Is that the glass is half full?  The auction house obviously they missed the estimate on the load.  Blame the devs for that.  Conservative number of servers at release:  No blame, really a smart move imo.  They halted likely for this reason.  Better to have too few than too many.

 Auction house has been up for me for a few days now...not sure if it's up for everyone.

I dunno, I am used to getting stuck in a .5-3 hour queue whenever I try to log into a mongo-popular MMORPG during launch week.  So I guess that being able to log in at any time makes the AH being down for a week not seem like such a big deal to me ;).

I'm not saying that there aren't launch issues, there ARE...and I have had a lot of annoying lag.  But I really don't think they are that big of a deal.  I don't think there has been a single extremely popular MMORPG that did not have launch issues.

Stuck in queues is something I am used to.   When CoH released, we had multiple instances of zones to prevent that.  I remember Atlas Park 1-5.  When WOW released, I didn't like the queues but dealt with it as the open world was different that coh.   SWTOR had copies of zones but that game was buggy.  GW2 has taken it to a whole nother level. (props to Mad TV).

One of the great innovations from CoH was sidekicking/mentoring (and scaling!).  The downleveling of characters to match zones is the ultimate and most natural way to implement the effect of mentoring.  Big high five to the devs on that.

 You mean a HNL ;)?

http://www.vgchartz.com/weekly/41154/USA/ GW2 is number 3 in sales in the US behind  NFL Madden 13 (PS3 and XBox 360 versions).

GW2 is the nos. 1 in sales in the UK currently

Those are not records but still good.

Originally posted by MosesZD

Originally posted by Ponico

The sales were good and while not as high as SWTOR or WOW. They were good enough to be considered a success. Now about the love/hate thing. Why do some people think it is the generic crap? - Unless you're a big Hardcore EVE player, every mmos are pretty much similar to each other. GW2 is a good game and deserve the praises. It pushes the enveloppe far enough to open new doors to inovation. GW2 will greatly influence other MMOs and this is a good thing.

 

 

The GW2 EGA sales exceeded SWTOR EGA sales.   They execeeded WoW Month 1-3 sales, too.

 

Any more 'facts' you want to make up?

While I am enjoying this game immensely, I have already dropped 50 bucks in the Shop. (Altoholic) I haven't had this much fun in an MMO since Vanilla and Early TBC WoW. I log on in the eves with 3 buddies and we all go out together and have a $@#&% blast!

But, I don't like this arguement because you are mixing and matching to say what you want. I haven't researched this, I've only seen numbers thrown around these boards,(Nor do I really care to TBH)  but I thought GW2 EGA was 1M and TOR was closer to 2? And EGA is a sub category that means nothing to the success of a game in the long run. SWTOR had huge EGA sales compared to anything up to it's own release. and look what happened within a month post release.

As far as GW2 vs. WoW sales relative to release, When WoW went live, MMOs were a niche genre and were little known and WoW did not have the anticipation for it's time. There is a HUGE difference in how MMOs sold in 2003 vs 2012. You just cannot compare them.

Originally posted by botrytis

http://www.vgchartz.com/weekly/41154/USA/ GW2 is number 3 in sales in the US behind  NFL Madden 13 (PS3 and XBox 360 versions).

 

GW2 is the nos. 1 in sales in the UK currently

 

Those are not records but still good.

I'm guessing those are brick and mortar estimates only?  Do they account for digital downloads?

If they don't, then the sales numbers here will highly underestimate the real sales because digital distro is king now for PC games.

Either way though, even if they do count digital downloads, then that means that GW2 sold at least 1.4 million already (1 mil preorders + 400K release week sales), not too shabby.

Originally posted by botrytis

http://www.vgchartz.com/weekly/41154/USA/ GW2 is number 3 in sales in the US behind  NFL Madden 13 (PS3 and XBox 360 versions).

 

GW2 is the nos. 1 in sales in the UK currently

 

Those are not records but still good.

It's GREAT!  The problem I think, is our society and the way we are always trying to push to the next level instead of appreciating things doing well enough or even above average.  Everything has to be "record-breaking" and "EXTREME".  People need to get over that.  The only one that really blew anyone away was WoW.  Being #1 in a country like the UK is not depressing anyone at ANet, I can tell you that much.

Originally posted by Krytycal

 

I still stand by the statement that ANET was likely shooting for 1-2 mil sales at release, which are close to SWTOR's numbers.

 

Well that's your guess. And i myself think they are shooting for 1-2 milion sales too.

Since we have no solid data we can only guess at the sales right now but considering they had 1 million just from prepurchase i guess they are around 2 M right now adding the preorders and the sales since 25th august.

It's an extremely successful game financially wise considering it didn't cost nearly as much as swtor development, license and marketing.

Originally posted by Krytycal

 

About the IP, for every game you listed with a strong IPs and strong release sales, I can list games with no IPs and strong release  sales, and games with strong IPs and mediocre to poor release sales. IP has some influence, but I wouldn't call it major. I'm sure if Bioware had release just about any Sci-Fi/Fantasy MMORPG with the budget they had it would've broken the 1mil sales regardless of IP. Heck, it might have been even more succesful considering it'd eliminate a lot of licensing expenses. Give me some real Sci-Fi over Star Wars any day.

It's a major influence to use a well known IP. It doesn't equate big ip = big sales but it definetely helps more than having an obscure ip.

Yeah probably a "WoW clone in space" (without the Star Wars IP) would have still sold 1 M copies... but that's 1 M less copies thant what Swtor did. I call it a major help.

Technically star wars isn't sci-fi but "space fantasy" and i agree they would have been more successful in the long run if they had used the budget to pay for more development instead of the IP.

But that only makes even more clearer that IP only helps initial sales not how succesful a game is in the long run.

Originally posted by Eir_S

Originally posted by botrytis

http://www.vgchartz.com/weekly/41154/USA/ GW2 is number 3 in sales in the US behind  NFL Madden 13 (PS3 and XBox 360 versions).

 

GW2 is the nos. 1 in sales in the UK currently

 

Those are not records but still good.

It's GREAT!  The problem I think, is our society and the way we are always trying to push to the next level instead of appreciating things doing well enough or even above average.  Everything has to be "record-breaking" and "EXTREME".  People need to get over that.  The only one that really blew anyone away was WoW.  Being #1 in a country like the UK is not depressing anyone at ANet, I can tell you that much.

 It's number 1 in the UK because folks over there don't give a crap about American Football ;).  If it was FIFA and not Madden, I bet that it would be a different story.

Not that this matters, I think GW2 is better than any of EA's "yearly rehash" sports games...but they sure are popular.

Originally posted by Krytycal

Originally posted by otacu

Originally posted by Krytycal

GW2 had as much hype and marketing behind it as SWTOR did, if not more.

Sorry i think the Pinocchio thread is that way ---->

 

 

Originally posted by Krytycal

 They were also had the B2P model going for them. You're delusional if you think they weren't shooting for SWTOR's numbers.

They didn't tell how much they were expecting to sell. "A lot" is ... kinda vague.

What we know for now is that the had 1 M Prepurchase... and this leaves out the preorders and all the sales they had since the 25th August.

The game topped the charts and did even better than swtor on some.

They had 400k concurrent users at start topping the 350k from Swtor.

For all we know it's doing extremely well.

 

Originally posted by Krytycal

 IPs don't have nearly as much weight on the success of the game as people think. Look at all the "successful" MMOs now days, most of them are in-house IPs. Now look at the ones with strong IPs, yeah.

Wait  you are confusing things.

IPs don't make a game successfull... that's true. Where IP matter are the initial sales. And Swtor had a huge VERY huge pusth in the initial stage from the IP. They even closed SWG to push it even more.

To sell well at start and being successfull in the long run are two different things.

Another example: Warhammer.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I already recognized I was way misinformed with the marketing statement. I don't watch TV, so I never saw SWTOR ads. The places I frequent had as much hype and marketing for GW2 as they did for SWTOR, so that's what my statement was based on. I should have done more reseach than that.

 

I still stand by the statement that ANET was likely shooting for 1-2 mil sales at release, which are close to SWTOR's numbers.

 

About the IP, for every game you listed with a strong IPs and strong release sales, I can list games with no IPs and strong release  sales, and games with strong IPs and mediocre to poor release sales. IP has some influence, but I wouldn't call it major. I'm sure if Bioware had release just about any Sci-Fi/Fantasy MMORPG with the budget they had it would've broken the 1mil sales regardless of IP. Heck, it might have been even more succesful considering it'd eliminate a lot of licensing expenses. Give me some real Sci-Fi over Star Wars any day.

Eh, As far as IP's go, I think they make a difference. Why is everyone saying TSW didn't do good cause of its IP? Or WoW launch pulled a lot from that crowd to being with.

SW:TOR was advertised and hyped to hell and back. Multi millions just in top-notch trailers (which were bad ass lol). They used...

1) EA

2) Bioware

3) Lucas Arts

4) Star Wars

5) Kind of point 4, but not any star wars, but Knight of the Old Republic, whom MANY of us have been waiting for a follow up.

GW2 has what? GW1 and ANet?

Bioware was hyped out of proportion, as was Star Wars. 

Plus Star wars is only one of the largest IPs ever. I mean seriously you draw from not only the MMO crowd, but the Star Wars crowd (which i find kind of nutty tbh, and freaking massive). 

I don't know, the IP argument is kind of a wash, everyone believes their own and thats fine. 

As for GW2 total sales, at this point, i'd put them over 2 million. Easily. 2.5 is where i'm thinking. Why?

1 million before official launch. 400k logged on at once before launch. Claims of people trying to go to stores and there being little to no boxes left. And yes, ANet closing their sales via gw2.com. 

If they have not passed SW:TOR by now, they will. I don't want to get into why they closed sales, but they did. And it isn't just because this or that. People ARE claiming to have gone to multiple stores to no avail. So if even half of them are half true, thats a lot of sales.

Originally posted by Wolvards

Originally posted by Krytycal

Originally posted by otacu

Originally posted by Krytycal

GW2 had as much hype and marketing behind it as SWTOR did, if not more.

Sorry i think the Pinocchio thread is that way ---->

 

 

Originally posted by Krytycal

 They were also had the B2P model going for them. You're delusional if you think they weren't shooting for SWTOR's numbers.

They didn't tell how much they were expecting to sell. "A lot" is ... kinda vague.

What we know for now is that the had 1 M Prepurchase... and this leaves out the preorders and all the sales they had since the 25th August.

The game topped the charts and did even better than swtor on some.

They had 400k concurrent users at start topping the 350k from Swtor.

For all we know it's doing extremely well.

 

Originally posted by Krytycal

 IPs don't have nearly as much weight on the success of the game as people think. Look at all the "successful" MMOs now days, most of them are in-house IPs. Now look at the ones with strong IPs, yeah.

Wait  you are confusing things.

IPs don't make a game successfull... that's true. Where IP matter are the initial sales. And Swtor had a huge VERY huge pusth in the initial stage from the IP. They even closed SWG to push it even more.

To sell well at start and being successfull in the long run are two different things.

Another example: Warhammer.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I already recognized I was way misinformed with the marketing statement. I don't watch TV, so I never saw SWTOR ads. The places I frequent had as much hype and marketing for GW2 as they did for SWTOR, so that's what my statement was based on. I should have done more reseach than that.

 

I still stand by the statement that ANET was likely shooting for 1-2 mil sales at release, which are close to SWTOR's numbers.

 

About the IP, for every game you listed with a strong IPs and strong release sales, I can list games with no IPs and strong release  sales, and games with strong IPs and mediocre to poor release sales. IP has some influence, but I wouldn't call it major. I'm sure if Bioware had release just about any Sci-Fi/Fantasy MMORPG with the budget they had it would've broken the 1mil sales regardless of IP. Heck, it might have been even more succesful considering it'd eliminate a lot of licensing expenses. Give me some real Sci-Fi over Star Wars any day.

Eh, As far as IP's go, I think they make a difference. Why is everyone saying TSW didn't do good cause of its IP? Or WoW launch pulled a lot from that crowd to being with.

SW:TOR was advertised and hyped to hell and back. Multi millions just in top-notch trailers (which were bad ass lol). They used...

1) EA

2) Bioware

3) Lucas Arts

4) Star Wars

5) Kind of point 4, but not any star wars, but Knight of the Old Republic, whom MANY of us have been waiting for a follow up.

GW2 has what? GW1 and ANet?

Bioware was hyped out of proportion, as was Star Wars. 

Plus Star wars is only one of the largest IPs ever. I mean seriously you draw from not only the MMO crowd, but the Star Wars crowd (which i find kind of nutty tbh, and freaking massive). 

I don't know, the IP argument is kind of a wash, everyone believes their own and thats fine. 

As for GW2 total sales, at this point, i'd put them over 2 million. Easily. 2.5 is where i'm thinking. Why?

1 million before official launch. 400k logged on at once before launch. Claims of people trying to go to stores and there being little to no boxes left. And yes, ANet closing their sales via gw2.com. 

If they have not passed SW:TOR by now, they will. I don't want to get into why they closed sales, but they did. And it isn't just because this or that. People ARE claiming to have gone to multiple stores to no avail. So if even half of them are half true, thats a lot of sales.

Who's saying that TSW failed because of the IP? If anything good came out of that game, it was the IP, the setting, the story, etc. It didn't do well for entirely different reasons like the one I brought up here:

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/355356

Originally posted by Creslin321

MMORPG.com forum sentiment - GW2 has failed, OMG the false prophet!

Reality - GW2 sold so many copies that they had to halt sales.

Truth is, I don't know exactly how many they sold.  But the fact that they had to STOP sales means they obviously sold more than they expected.  I would hardly call that a failure ;).

Well thing is GW2 dont have monthly fee so basic that mean you can run 2 game at sametime with that pay for every month and one like GW2 on side thing is you should look for is how it will be after 4 to 6 month when hyp around game have fall. Just becouse Nsoft have stop the sale dont really mean the sold to much it can mean alot of thing like the dont have enough game server or anything like that to.

Anyway i happy people like GW2 myself is not much into whole pvp it is fun for while untill you reminder that people tend to cheat in pvp not say GW2 have that problem yet but GW have alot of bot and people cheating in pvp aspect of game i just hope that Nsoft dont mess GW2 up like tabula rasa.

I wish all best of luck :)

Originally posted by Creslin321

Originally posted by botrytis

http://www.vgchartz.com/weekly/41154/USA/ GW2 is number 3 in sales in the US behind  NFL Madden 13 (PS3 and XBox 360 versions).

 

GW2 is the nos. 1 in sales in the UK currently

 

Those are not records but still good.

I'm guessing those are brick and mortar estimates only?  Do they account for digital downloads?

If they don't, then the sales numbers here will highly underestimate the real sales because digital distro is king now for PC games.

Either way though, even if they do count digital downloads, then that means that GW2 sold at least 1.4 million already (1 mil preorders + 400K release week sales), not too shabby.

 

Vgchartz is just bricks and mortar sales but they are highly inaccurate. Since a lot of retailers refuse to share the information with them 

The game is doing pretty well in Europe...

http://www.videogamer.com/pc/guild_wars_2/news/guild_wars_2_tops_the_charts_across_europe.html