I can't even compare GW2 against SWTOR.

I left SWTOR after 4 weeks even though I had a 3 month sub. 

GW2 has a great business model.  e.g. I know I will play for a long time but in those moments when I feel like having a break I don't unsub or panic about the cost. I know I will pop back in at some point. 

I know a lot of people will do the same so the population will be maintained and that means more cash shop sales and when an expansion comes out, more sales again.

SWTOR just feels way too linear and small to me.  Its like a poor single player game trying to be an MMO.

GW2 has that big world feel which I love.

Originally posted by Gaborik

Originally posted by RajCaj

Originally posted by meari

Originally posted by RajCaj

While I don't see GW2 sinking as fast as SW:TOR (no sub with GW2), it will struggle in the same areas that so many of the previous modern MMORPGs have.

 

GW2 is a really well put together game.  It lifted all the things that worked in WOW, Warhammer, Rift, etc., and put a spit shine polish on the product.  Well done ArenaNET

 

With that said....you're STILL running kill quests.  You're STILL running escort quests.  You're STILL running collect quests.  You're STILL getting chained along with quests, that serve as the primary vehicle improve your situation in the game.

 

For those that haven't played this kind of game for the last 7 years.....it's an amazing game, and should hold your interest for quite a while.  However, if you've been on the Linear progression MMO ride since the beginning of WOW.......the shiney wears off  rather quick.  The repetitiveness & same tired progression model smacks you in the face after only playing for a few days.

I'd just like to point out that Frodo and company went out on a quest, there were some collecting involved, a few escorts, some rescues and not to mention a whole heap of killing.

 

Seriously every story breaks down into some form of basic tasks. 

And how did LOTR MMO work out? heh

Seriously though, a quest is a goal to work towards.....and should mean something to you.  Frodo & company embarked on an epic quest that took a long time to complete, and had consequences of epic porportions. 

Modern MMO quests are miniscule and offer a few pieces of copper or a piece of trivial gear.....and you can do dozens of them in one sitting. 

The idea of questing is not the problem....the burn out is!  When I played Ultima Online, there really weren't any quests.  You made your own personal goal / quest.  Mine was to own a house.  It took me months of getting my characters abilities up to a point that I could actually start turning a profit from hunting....and then after I saved long enough, I could afford my first casa.  Then my quest changed....I wanted to decorate it with all kinds of rare items. 

When your quest is personal, and takes a long time to complete.....all the things you do in between seem less like your being lead around with a carrot, and more like a meaningful set of tasks to achieve some ends that you put a lot of value into.

 

Just my opinion anyways...

How did LOTRO work out?  Pretty dam# good if you must ask.

Haha are you joking?

The biggest IP in any media in THE WORLD, and despite that, they never broke 500k subs. They didn't crash and burn, they never left the runway. They've just coasted along for years. So much so that they had to go FTP just to get some extra cash flow going.

Originally posted by Tibernicus

Haha are you joking?

The biggest IP in any media in THE WORLD, and despite that, they never broke 500k subs. They didn't crash and burn, they never left the runway. They've just coasted along for years. So much so that they had to go FTP just to get some extra cash flow going.

I don't consider it the largest ip out there nor did I see their turn to f2p as a failure. They did better than expected with DDO so of course they reconsidered their venture in LotR. Was it a resounding success? No

Certainly isn't anything remotely like you claim either.

Originally posted by Tibernicus

Originally posted by Gaborik

Originally posted by RajCaj

Originally posted by meari

Originally posted by RajCaj

While I don't see GW2 sinking as fast as SW:TOR (no sub with GW2), it will struggle in the same areas that so many of the previous modern MMORPGs have.

 

GW2 is a really well put together game.  It lifted all the things that worked in WOW, Warhammer, Rift, etc., and put a spit shine polish on the product.  Well done ArenaNET

 

With that said....you're STILL running kill quests.  You're STILL running escort quests.  You're STILL running collect quests.  You're STILL getting chained along with quests, that serve as the primary vehicle improve your situation in the game.

 

For those that haven't played this kind of game for the last 7 years.....it's an amazing game, and should hold your interest for quite a while.  However, if you've been on the Linear progression MMO ride since the beginning of WOW.......the shiney wears off  rather quick.  The repetitiveness & same tired progression model smacks you in the face after only playing for a few days.

I'd just like to point out that Frodo and company went out on a quest, there were some collecting involved, a few escorts, some rescues and not to mention a whole heap of killing.

 

Seriously every story breaks down into some form of basic tasks. 

And how did LOTR MMO work out? heh

Seriously though, a quest is a goal to work towards.....and should mean something to you.  Frodo & company embarked on an epic quest that took a long time to complete, and had consequences of epic porportions. 

Modern MMO quests are miniscule and offer a few pieces of copper or a piece of trivial gear.....and you can do dozens of them in one sitting. 

The idea of questing is not the problem....the burn out is!  When I played Ultima Online, there really weren't any quests.  You made your own personal goal / quest.  Mine was to own a house.  It took me months of getting my characters abilities up to a point that I could actually start turning a profit from hunting....and then after I saved long enough, I could afford my first casa.  Then my quest changed....I wanted to decorate it with all kinds of rare items. 

When your quest is personal, and takes a long time to complete.....all the things you do in between seem less like your being lead around with a carrot, and more like a meaningful set of tasks to achieve some ends that you put a lot of value into.

 

Just my opinion anyways...

How did LOTRO work out?  Pretty dam# good if you must ask.

Haha are you joking?

The biggest IP in any media in THE WORLD, and despite that, they never broke 500k subs. They didn't crash and burn, they never left the runway. They've just coasted along for years. So much so that they had to go FTP just to get some extra cash flow going.

Originally posted by Wickedjelly

Originally posted by Tibernicus

Haha are you joking?

The biggest IP in any media in THE WORLD, and despite that, they never broke 500k subs. They didn't crash and burn, they never left the runway. They've just coasted along for years. So much so that they had to go FTP just to get some extra cash flow going.

I don't consider it the largest ip out there you should, it is the best selling book in the world aside from the Bible, and pre release there were millions hammering the beta sign up page. That number barely even cracked a couple hundred thousand on release day, because by then everyone had seen how much of a WoW clone it was and lost interest.  nor did I see their turn to f2p as a failure. You should. DDO went FTP because it was a total failure and had nothing to lose. LotRO went the same route because it hadn't been growing for years. They did better than expected with DDO DDO was the laughing stock of the genre for close to 4 years so of course they reconsidered their venture in LotR. Was it a resounding success? No

Certainly isn't anything remotely like you claim either.

I was involved with LotRO from when it was called Middle Earth Online, until launch. I have never before seen a game that was better in alpha than when released, but Middle Earth Online was a far FAR superior game to LotRO. But, it wasn't mainstream enough, so they changed it to be just like WoW, and lost the vast majority of their fan base in the process. I lived 10 minutes away from Turbine's offices, I saw the radical shift in quality (for the worse) they company went through over the years. It was sad to witness and I'm still upset over what could have been.

You don't take an IP like LotR, hot off the release of 3 record breaking movies... and then not even beat the sub numbers of old dial up games...and then call it a great success.

Originally posted by Souldrainer
"Same fate as SWTOR" meaning? #2 sub-based MMO?

You mean... merging servers and firing half your staff within 3 months, and not turning a profit?

Originally posted by Tibernicus

I was involved with LotRO from when it was called Middle Earth Online, until launch. I have never before seen a game that was better in alpha than when released, but Middle Earth Online was a far FAR superior game to LotRO. But, it wasn't mainstream enough, so they changed it to be just like WoW, and lost the vast majority of their fan base in the process. I lived 10 minutes away from Turbine's offices, I saw the radical shift in quality (for the worse) they company went through over the years. It was sad to witness and I'm still upset over what could have been.

 

You don't take an IP like LotR, hot off the release of 3 record breaking movies... and then not even beat the sub numbers of old dial up games...and then call it a great success.

I never said it was a great success. What I said was your assertion was ludicrous. Pretty safe to say if things went as bad as you claim it would not still be live let alone coming out with another expansion.

Originally posted by Tibernicus

Originally posted by Souldrainer
"Same fate as SWTOR" meaning? #2 sub-based MMO?

You mean... merging servers and firing half your staff within 3 months, and not turning a profit?

Originally posted by Tibernicus

Originally posted by Wickedjelly

Originally posted by Tibernicus

Haha are you joking?

The biggest IP in any media in THE WORLD, and despite that, they never broke 500k subs. They didn't crash and burn, they never left the runway. They've just coasted along for years. So much so that they had to go FTP just to get some extra cash flow going.

I don't consider it the largest ip out there you should, it is the best selling book in the world aside from the Bible, and pre release there were millions hammering the beta sign up page. That number barely even cracked a couple hundred thousand on release day, because by then everyone had seen how much of a WoW clone it was and lost interest.  nor did I see their turn to f2p as a failure. You should. DDO went FTP because it was a total failure and had nothing to lose. LotRO went the same route because it hadn't been growing for years. They did better than expected with DDO DDO was the laughing stock of the genre for close to 4 years so of course they reconsidered their venture in LotR. Was it a resounding success? No

Certainly isn't anything remotely like you claim either.

I was involved with LotRO from when it was called Middle Earth Online, until launch. I have never before seen a game that was better in alpha than when released, but Middle Earth Online was a far FAR superior game to LotRO. But, it wasn't mainstream enough, so they changed it to be just like WoW, and lost the vast majority of their fan base in the process. I lived 10 minutes away from Turbine's offices, I saw the radical shift in quality (for the worse) they company went through over the years. It was sad to witness and I'm still upset over what could have been.

 

You don't take an IP like LotR, hot off the release of 3 record breaking movies... and then not even beat the sub numbers of old dial up games...and then call it a great success.

I don't really want to turn this into a ME:O vs LoTRO thing, but do you really think if Turbine stuck to the ME:O course it would have done better? Like you said ME:O was not mainstream in anyway, permanent death itself would have been a huge turn off to many players. 

I'd actually put LOTRO's only moderate success down to bad marketing and management, considering how well SWTOR sold initially.

Originally posted by Tibernicus

Originally posted by Wickedjelly

Originally posted by Tibernicus

Haha are you joking?

The biggest IP in any media in THE WORLD, and despite that, they never broke 500k subs. They didn't crash and burn, they never left the runway. They've just coasted along for years. So much so that they had to go FTP just to get some extra cash flow going.

I don't consider it the largest ip out there you should, it is the best selling book in the world aside from the Bible, and pre release there were millions hammering the beta sign up page. That number barely even cracked a couple hundred thousand on release day, because by then everyone had seen how much of a WoW clone it was and lost interest.  nor did I see their turn to f2p as a failure. You should. DDO went FTP because it was a total failure and had nothing to lose. LotRO went the same route because it hadn't been growing for years. They did better than expected with DDO DDO was the laughing stock of the genre for close to 4 years so of course they reconsidered their venture in LotR. Was it a resounding success? No

Certainly isn't anything remotely like you claim either.

I was involved with LotRO from when it was called Middle Earth Online, until launch. I have never before seen a game that was better in alpha than when released, but Middle Earth Online was a far FAR superior game to LotRO. But, it wasn't mainstream enough, so they changed it to be just like WoW, and lost the vast majority of their fan base in the process. I lived 10 minutes away from Turbine's offices, I saw the radical shift in quality (for the worse) they company went through over the years. It was sad to witness and I'm still upset over what could have been.

 

You don't take an IP like LotR, hot off the release of 3 record breaking movies... and then not even beat the sub numbers of old dial up games...and then call it a great success.

Originally posted by Wickedjelly

Originally posted by Tibernicus

I was involved with LotRO from when it was called Middle Earth Online, until launch. I have never before seen a game that was better in alpha than when released, but Middle Earth Online was a far FAR superior game to LotRO. But, it wasn't mainstream enough, so they changed it to be just like WoW, and lost the vast majority of their fan base in the process. I lived 10 minutes away from Turbine's offices, I saw the radical shift in quality (for the worse) they company went through over the years. It was sad to witness and I'm still upset over what could have been.

 

You don't take an IP like LotR, hot off the release of 3 record breaking movies... and then not even beat the sub numbers of old dial up games...and then call it a great success.

I never said it was a great success. What I said was your assertion was ludicrous. Pretty safe to say if things went as bad as you claim it would not still be live let alone coming out with another expansion.

Asheron's Call 1 still has monthly expansions even though barely anyone plays it. Expansions are not a mark of doing "retty damn good". They're a mark of something turning a profit.

Originally posted by Gaborik

Originally posted by Tibernicus

Originally posted by Wickedjelly

Originally posted by Tibernicus

Haha are you joking?

The biggest IP in any media in THE WORLD, and despite that, they never broke 500k subs. They didn't crash and burn, they never left the runway. They've just coasted along for years. So much so that they had to go FTP just to get some extra cash flow going.

I don't consider it the largest ip out there you should, it is the best selling book in the world aside from the Bible, and pre release there were millions hammering the beta sign up page. That number barely even cracked a couple hundred thousand on release day, because by then everyone had seen how much of a WoW clone it was and lost interest.  nor did I see their turn to f2p as a failure. You should. DDO went FTP because it was a total failure and had nothing to lose. LotRO went the same route because it hadn't been growing for years. They did better than expected with DDO DDO was the laughing stock of the genre for close to 4 years so of course they reconsidered their venture in LotR. Was it a resounding success? No

Certainly isn't anything remotely like you claim either.

I was involved with LotRO from when it was called Middle Earth Online, until launch. I have never before seen a game that was better in alpha than when released, but Middle Earth Online was a far FAR superior game to LotRO. But, it wasn't mainstream enough, so they changed it to be just like WoW, and lost the vast majority of their fan base in the process. I lived 10 minutes away from Turbine's offices, I saw the radical shift in quality (for the worse) they company went through over the years. It was sad to witness and I'm still upset over what could have been.

 

You don't take an IP like LotR, hot off the release of 3 record breaking movies... and then not even beat the sub numbers of old dial up games...and then call it a great success.

 

First turbine never ever released its sub numbers so for you to state it never beat a dial up game just shows you are bias against lotro. Just so you know lotro has been around for over 5 yrs! A failed game would not have survived 5 yrs Many failed games have been around a lot longer. Anarchy Online? Vanguard?  would not be releasing another expansion NEXT MONTH!! See above, expansions mean very little. would not have the most preorders since moria would not be releasing the largest expansion since moria. That means almost nothing as a metric. LotRO has been limping along in semi obscurity since its launch. For the biggest IP in the MMO space, its sad. You can hate all you want. Just because it doesnt say it has 10 million players does not mean its a failed game.

All things considered for what it was SUPPOSED to be, its a pretty dismal failure. Now it didn't collapse in the same fashion as WAR or AOC or SWTOR, but it never did well as a game.

Originally posted by Tibernicus

Asheron's Call 1 still has monthly expansions even though barely anyone plays it. Expansions are not a mark of doing "retty damn good". They're a mark of something turning a profit.

Your point? I never said it was a "huge success" or "retty damn good" with the mmo market in general. What I said was your assertion it was a failure simply isn't true.

Originally posted by Tibernicus

Originally posted by Gaborik

Originally posted by Tibernicus

Originally posted by Wickedjelly

Originally posted by Tibernicus

Haha are you joking?

The biggest IP in any media in THE WORLD, and despite that, they never broke 500k subs. They didn't crash and burn, they never left the runway. They've just coasted along for years. So much so that they had to go FTP just to get some extra cash flow going.

I don't consider it the largest ip out there you should, it is the best selling book in the world aside from the Bible, and pre release there were millions hammering the beta sign up page. That number barely even cracked a couple hundred thousand on release day, because by then everyone had seen how much of a WoW clone it was and lost interest.  nor did I see their turn to f2p as a failure. You should. DDO went FTP because it was a total failure and had nothing to lose. LotRO went the same route because it hadn't been growing for years. They did better than expected with DDO DDO was the laughing stock of the genre for close to 4 years so of course they reconsidered their venture in LotR. Was it a resounding success? No

Certainly isn't anything remotely like you claim either.

I was involved with LotRO from when it was called Middle Earth Online, until launch. I have never before seen a game that was better in alpha than when released, but Middle Earth Online was a far FAR superior game to LotRO. But, it wasn't mainstream enough, so they changed it to be just like WoW, and lost the vast majority of their fan base in the process. I lived 10 minutes away from Turbine's offices, I saw the radical shift in quality (for the worse) they company went through over the years. It was sad to witness and I'm still upset over what could have been.

 

You don't take an IP like LotR, hot off the release of 3 record breaking movies... and then not even beat the sub numbers of old dial up games...and then call it a great success.

 

First turbine never ever released its sub numbers so for you to state it never beat a dial up game just shows you are bias against lotro. Just so you know lotro has been around for over 5 yrs! A failed game would not have survived 5 yrs Many failed games have been around a lot longer. Anarchy Online? Vanguard?  would not be releasing another expansion NEXT MONTH!! See above, expansions mean very little. would not have the most preorders since moria would not be releasing the largest expansion since moria. That means almost nothing as a metric. LotRO has been limping along in semi obscurity since its launch. For the biggest IP in the MMO space, its sad. You can hate all you want. Just because it doesnt say it has 10 million players does not mean its a failed game.

All things considered for what it was SUPPOSED to be, its a pretty dismal failure. Now it didn't collapse in the same fashion as WAR or AOC or SWTOR, but it never did well as a game.

Since no game has done well in the west since WoW, I think it's a pretty hard call to make. Even GW2 (though I have every confidence GW2 will do extremely well) has yet to prove its mettle. From the list of MMOs, LoTRO is not a failure in any sense.

Originally posted by meari

Originally posted by Tibernicus

Originally posted by Gaborik

Originally posted by Tibernicus

Originally posted by Wickedjelly

Originally posted by Tibernicus

Haha are you joking?

The biggest IP in any media in THE WORLD, and despite that, they never broke 500k subs. They didn't crash and burn, they never left the runway. They've just coasted along for years. So much so that they had to go FTP just to get some extra cash flow going.

I don't consider it the largest ip out there you should, it is the best selling book in the world aside from the Bible, and pre release there were millions hammering the beta sign up page. That number barely even cracked a couple hundred thousand on release day, because by then everyone had seen how much of a WoW clone it was and lost interest.  nor did I see their turn to f2p as a failure. You should. DDO went FTP because it was a total failure and had nothing to lose. LotRO went the same route because it hadn't been growing for years. They did better than expected with DDO DDO was the laughing stock of the genre for close to 4 years so of course they reconsidered their venture in LotR. Was it a resounding success? No

Certainly isn't anything remotely like you claim either.

I was involved with LotRO from when it was called Middle Earth Online, until launch. I have never before seen a game that was better in alpha than when released, but Middle Earth Online was a far FAR superior game to LotRO. But, it wasn't mainstream enough, so they changed it to be just like WoW, and lost the vast majority of their fan base in the process. I lived 10 minutes away from Turbine's offices, I saw the radical shift in quality (for the worse) they company went through over the years. It was sad to witness and I'm still upset over what could have been.

 

You don't take an IP like LotR, hot off the release of 3 record breaking movies... and then not even beat the sub numbers of old dial up games...and then call it a great success.

 

First turbine never ever released its sub numbers so for you to state it never beat a dial up game just shows you are bias against lotro. Just so you know lotro has been around for over 5 yrs! A failed game would not have survived 5 yrs Many failed games have been around a lot longer. Anarchy Online? Vanguard?  would not be releasing another expansion NEXT MONTH!! See above, expansions mean very little. would not have the most preorders since moria would not be releasing the largest expansion since moria. That means almost nothing as a metric. LotRO has been limping along in semi obscurity since its launch. For the biggest IP in the MMO space, its sad. You can hate all you want. Just because it doesnt say it has 10 million players does not mean its a failed game.

All things considered for what it was SUPPOSED to be, its a pretty dismal failure. Now it didn't collapse in the same fashion as WAR or AOC or SWTOR, but it never did well as a game.

Since no game has done well in the west since WoW you mean no WoW clone has done well since WoW, to which I say... duh. Darkfall on the other hand, did quite well in the west. , I think it's a pretty hard call to make. Even GW2 (though I have every confidence GW2 will do extremely well) has yet to prove its mettle. From the list of MMOs, LoTRO is not a failure in any sense.

So from the list of failed MMOs LotRO isn't AS BIG a failure... which is what I have been saying. It still isn't a roaring success. Especially not compared to the amount of buzz it had in beta.

Originally posted by Wickedjelly

Originally posted by Tibernicus

Asheron's Call 1 still has monthly expansions even though barely anyone plays it. Expansions are not a mark of doing "retty damn good". They're a mark of something turning a profit.

Your point? I never said it was a "huge success" or "retty damn good" with the mmo market in general. What I said was your assertion it was a failure simply isn't true.

When the biggest IP in the world cannot generate massive subs, coming off 3 blockbuster record shattering movies... that's a failure.

We don't need sub numbers to know that LotRO never broke 500k subs.

Originally posted by Tibernicus

Originally posted by Gaborik

Originally posted by Tibernicus

Originally posted by Wickedjelly

Originally posted by Tibernicus

Haha are you joking?

The biggest IP in any media in THE WORLD, and despite that, they never broke 500k subs. They didn't crash and burn, they never left the runway. They've just coasted along for years. So much so that they had to go FTP just to get some extra cash flow going.

I don't consider it the largest ip out there you should, it is the best selling book in the world aside from the Bible, and pre release there were millions hammering the beta sign up page. That number barely even cracked a couple hundred thousand on release day, because by then everyone had seen how much of a WoW clone it was and lost interest.  nor did I see their turn to f2p as a failure. You should. DDO went FTP because it was a total failure and had nothing to lose. LotRO went the same route because it hadn't been growing for years. They did better than expected with DDO DDO was the laughing stock of the genre for close to 4 years so of course they reconsidered their venture in LotR. Was it a resounding success? No

Certainly isn't anything remotely like you claim either.

I was involved with LotRO from when it was called Middle Earth Online, until launch. I have never before seen a game that was better in alpha than when released, but Middle Earth Online was a far FAR superior game to LotRO. But, it wasn't mainstream enough, so they changed it to be just like WoW, and lost the vast majority of their fan base in the process. I lived 10 minutes away from Turbine's offices, I saw the radical shift in quality (for the worse) they company went through over the years. It was sad to witness and I'm still upset over what could have been.

 

You don't take an IP like LotR, hot off the release of 3 record breaking movies... and then not even beat the sub numbers of old dial up games...and then call it a great success.

 

First turbine never ever released its sub numbers so for you to state it never beat a dial up game just shows you are bias against lotro. Just so you know lotro has been around for over 5 yrs! A failed game would not have survived 5 yrs Many failed games have been around a lot longer. Anarchy Online? Vanguard?  would not be releasing another expansion NEXT MONTH!! See above, expansions mean very little. would not have the most preorders since moria would not be releasing the largest expansion since moria. That means almost nothing as a metric. LotRO has been limping along in semi obscurity since its launch. For the biggest IP in the MMO space, its sad. You can hate all you want. Just because it doesnt say it has 10 million players does not mean its a failed game.

All things considered for what it was SUPPOSED to be, its a pretty dismal failure. Now it didn't collapse in the same fashion as WAR or AOC or SWTOR, but it never did well as a game.

Originally posted by Tibernicus

Originally posted by meari

Originally posted by Tibernicus

Originally posted by Gaborik

Originally posted by Tibernicus

Originally posted by Wickedjelly

Originally posted by Tibernicus

Haha are you joking?

The biggest IP in any media in THE WORLD, and despite that, they never broke 500k subs. They didn't crash and burn, they never left the runway. They've just coasted along for years. So much so that they had to go FTP just to get some extra cash flow going.

I don't consider it the largest ip out there you should, it is the best selling book in the world aside from the Bible, and pre release there were millions hammering the beta sign up page. That number barely even cracked a couple hundred thousand on release day, because by then everyone had seen how much of a WoW clone it was and lost interest.  nor did I see their turn to f2p as a failure. You should. DDO went FTP because it was a total failure and had nothing to lose. LotRO went the same route because it hadn't been growing for years. They did better than expected with DDO DDO was the laughing stock of the genre for close to 4 years so of course they reconsidered their venture in LotR. Was it a resounding success? No

Certainly isn't anything remotely like you claim either.

I was involved with LotRO from when it was called Middle Earth Online, until launch. I have never before seen a game that was better in alpha than when released, but Middle Earth Online was a far FAR superior game to LotRO. But, it wasn't mainstream enough, so they changed it to be just like WoW, and lost the vast majority of their fan base in the process. I lived 10 minutes away from Turbine's offices, I saw the radical shift in quality (for the worse) they company went through over the years. It was sad to witness and I'm still upset over what could have been.

 

You don't take an IP like LotR, hot off the release of 3 record breaking movies... and then not even beat the sub numbers of old dial up games...and then call it a great success.

 

First turbine never ever released its sub numbers so for you to state it never beat a dial up game just shows you are bias against lotro. Just so you know lotro has been around for over 5 yrs! A failed game would not have survived 5 yrs Many failed games have been around a lot longer. Anarchy Online? Vanguard?  would not be releasing another expansion NEXT MONTH!! See above, expansions mean very little. would not have the most preorders since moria would not be releasing the largest expansion since moria. That means almost nothing as a metric. LotRO has been limping along in semi obscurity since its launch. For the biggest IP in the MMO space, its sad. You can hate all you want. Just because it doesnt say it has 10 million players does not mean its a failed game.

All things considered for what it was SUPPOSED to be, its a pretty dismal failure. Now it didn't collapse in the same fashion as WAR or AOC or SWTOR, but it never did well as a game.

Since no game has done well in the west since WoW you mean no WoW clone has done well since WoW, to which I say... duh. Darkfall on the other hand, did quite well in the west. , I think it's a pretty hard call to make. Even GW2 (though I have every confidence GW2 will do extremely well) has yet to prove its mettle. From the list of MMOs, LoTRO is not a failure in any sense.

So from the list of failed MMOs LotRO isn't AS BIG a failure... which is what I have been saying. It still isn't a roaring success. Especially not compared to the amount of buzz it had in beta.

No, I mean no MMO period. Name a MMO that has done well in the West since WoW. Darkfall did not do well, please describe how you qualified that.

Originally posted by Tibernicus

Since no game has done well in the west since WoW you mean no WoW clone has done well since WoW, to which I say... duh. Darkfall on the other hand, did quite well in the west. , I think it's a pretty hard call to make. Even GW2 (though I have every confidence GW2 will do extremely well) has yet to prove its mettle. From the list of MMOs, LoTRO is not a failure in any sense.

So from the list of failed MMOs LotRO isn't AS BIG a failure... which is what I have been saying. It still isn't a roaring success. Especially not compared to the amount of buzz it had in beta.

Right...so LOTRO was a failure in your eyes but Darkfall did quite well. Yes...I mean what the fuck?

Not even worth going further...